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A51289
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A brief reply to a late answer to Dr. Henry More his Antidote against idolatry Shewing that there is nothing in the said answer that does any ways weaken his proofs of idolatry against the Church of Rome, and therefore all are bound to take heed how they enter into, or continue in the communion of that church as they tender their own salvation.
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More, Henry, 1614-1687.
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1672
(1672)
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Wing M2645; ESTC R217965
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188,285
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386
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Oblations and gifts brought to them This tast may suffice to let the Reader understand what shreâ—d Reasoners they were in that Council when the Pope himself who inspired all by his influence reasons at such a rate as he does Now to the second part I have nothing to Reply but that I think it not so commendable carriage for a mans self to laugh when he tells a story that is ridiculous and therefore it is a breach of Charity at least of Civility to affirm that I laughed where it was not good manners so to do he not possibly hearing me laugh at such a distance as he was removed from me when I writ this Paragraph which makes me believe that he himself could not but laugh at the recital of such incredible stuff and so measured my Corn by his own Bushel His Answer to the third Paragraph From laughing saith he he immediately falls alowring and the Reason is because this Council declares that it is lawfull to burn Candels Incense and Perfumes in honour of the Saints before their Images which he in an angry mood concludes to smell rankly of Idolatry even by the Authority of Grotius himself upon the Decalogue This is all in Answer to this third Paragraph saving his falling foul upon Grotius The Reply It is not unworthy Observation of what a Scenical or Histrionical Genius this Roman Doctor my Adversary is that can raise Comedies and Tragedies thus upon such slight occasions I must confess I am sorry for the Idolatries of their Church but that I did either laugh before or lowre now is onely the Poetical phancy of my Antagonist so to imagine But that the Council of Nice does appoint tâ—e burning of Incense and the lighting of Candles before the Images I shall prove in its proper place In the mean time I would have my Reader take notice that even by the Authority of Grotius himself upon the Decalogue are the words of my Adversary not mine which are these As Grotius himself upon the Decalogue cannot but acknowledge I give little to the Authority of Grotius in himself but to the clearness of the Case that such an one that did so glaver and fawn upon the Church of Rome and endeavour to gratifie her every where to the utmost he could yet was ashamed to venture to gratifie her in a point so clearly against her as this and therefore could not but acknowledge though against his will that the burning of Incense before Images is Idolatry His Answer to the fourth Paragraph Instead of Answering to that Quotation of Photius which plainly implies that the Council of Nice has allotted the Worship of Latria to the Image of Christ he according to his usual Art would make the World believe that I clash again here with our Church of England out of my own positions or Conclusions But the thing he here repeats is Crambe bis cocta heartless and sapless stuff as indeed I proved it to be at first The sum of his Answer is this That when the Sons of the Church of England bow their knees at the Eucharist which to them is a Symbolical presence whether they terminate this act of Worship on the Eucharist or Symbolical presence or profess it does 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pass on to Christ in the first they will be absolute Idolaters by the twentieth Conclusion of my second Chapter in the second they will be obnoxious to what I urge here against the Nicene Council One would think they meant the Cultus Latriae c. This I say is all be seems to be concerned in upon this Paragraph For his exception against Photius his Authority followes in the next The Reply But to this such as it is I Answer or rather say that I have Answered it already upon his first proposing of it where I deny that we of the Church of England take the Bread or Wine to be any symbolical Presence to be bowed to but mere symbolical Instruments of commemorating the Passion and Crucifixion of our Saviour mere holy Elements consecrated to that use And that we do not kneel to them or at their approach but are at our Devotions afore in a posture of Prayer to God and Christ which these Symbols when they are given to us find us aforehand in So that this is a mere Cavil against the Sons of the Church of England and against my self devised and repeated by my Adversary to fill up the defect of better Answerings His Answer jointly to the fourth fifth and sixth Paragraphs His next pretense is to prove positively by the Testimony of Photius that this Council gives the worship of Latria to the Image of Christ. But the Doctor says he had plaid his Master-prize if he had given all this rabble he means both the Quotations in the Councils own words but instead of that he feeds upon Reversions at the second hand takes his Quotations from Photius a Person of as much credit as himself and makes Photius the Paraphrast and Interpreter of the Councils meaning But what if the Council say no such thing Nay what if the Council deliver the quite contrary doctrine How blank then will the Doctors charge look upon the discovery of such Disingenuity And truly had the Doctor but taken so much as a cursory survey of Catholick Authors on this Subject he might have found them frequently and truly quoting this very Council Act. 7. to prove that the Image of Christ is not to be honoured with the Worship of Latria but that such honour and reverence is due to Images in general as to the Books of the Gospel and the holy utensils of the Altar This is all touching this Chapter the rest is raillery and humour which I leave this Roman Doctor to enjoy himself in But by the by in the next â—e pretends that I have omitted the Translation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in my second Quotation of Photius in this which therefore I shall touch upon The Reply That these Quotations out of Photius prove that which I produce them for my Adversary cannot deny supposing the Authority of Photius were Authentick Which he vilifies upon no grounds nor has any that I know so to do He was the Patriarch of Constantinople the Chief or Head of the Greek Church where this Council was held And was Patriarch not long after this Council And his place and dignity in the Church and very Genius you may be sure would make him very carefull to understand a Council of so great importance as this And for his Parts and Learning he was extraordinarily famous Concerning which I cannot here abstain from interserting that high Elogium which that Learned Prelate of our Church Dr. Creighton gives him in his Preface to the History of the Florentine Council Illustri Photio Doctiorem in omni genere literarum prudentiorem in rebus gerendis omnis Iuris Divini humanique peritiorem nunquam quovis solio vel Romae Papam vel Constantinopoli Patriarcham
lyes the charity and moderation they boast of Why I 'll tell you In this â— hat whereas Protestancy that is Christian Religion quatenus reformed from the errors of Rome wants no repentance and the Errors and mispractises of the Church of Rome are so hainous and enormous that most Protestants comparing the Crimes of that Church with the menaces of Scripture do conclude the Adherers thereto in the state of Damnation without any more to do so soon as they adhere unto it Dr. Hammond and Dr. Potter are so charitable that though men dye in that Church yet by a general sincere repentance such as implies that if their Errors and mispractises were discovered to them to be such they would forthwith leave the Communion of that Church declare they may be saved which is the same I profess too But we declare in the mean time that it is perfect madness in any one to go over to such a Church in which there is no Salvation but upon supposition that if we knew the gross Errors and mispractises of it we would presently renounce Communion with it which if we did not we should certainly be damned But behold a third fetch also Nothing is more current saith he amongst them when they are pressed with the Crime of Schism then to return the Charge upon us from other grounds saying that as the Donatiâ—ts and Luciferians were so we are Schismaticks in cutting off from the Body of Christ and hope of Salvation other Churches from which we are divided in Communion From which he would infer that we should make our selves Donatists and Luciferians if we should cut them off from hope of Salvation To which I Reply That this must be current onely amongst them that phancy themselves pressed with the Crime of Schism But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 How soft and yielding must they be how weak and feeble that can phancy themselves pressed with such an Objection Certainly those must be but very few And therefore this Answer must be current but with a very few Our constant Answer is that they are Shismaticks that depart from the Communion of the truly ancient and Apostolick Church Of whose lineage we do avow ouâ— selves to be and do plainly and irrefragably prove it And therefore you are Apostates from us and Schismaticks that you do not cast off your enormous errors and hainous practises and Communicate with us But with the Lucifâ—rians and Donatists you make your selves more holy and call us Hereticks when your selves are really the Hereticks and Schismaticks In this are you like the Donatists and Luciferians and unjustly take upon you to cut us short of Salvation But does it thence follow we justly declaring you debar'd of Salvation by reason of your open Idolatries and Murders of the innocent people of God that we become thereby also Donatists and Luciferians let any indifferent man judge But the last and strongest prop of so bad a Cause is the great and venerable Authority of Dr. Thorndike an ingenuous Son of the Church of England Of whom he says In regard I have mentioned so eminent a person and member of the Church of England as Dr. Thorndike I shall make bold to turn him into the lists against Dr. More The Antithesis of their doctrines is very remarkable for they run diametrically opposite one to another 1. Dr. More affirms the VVorship of the Host in the Papacy to be Idolatry Dr. Thorndike ch 19. denies the VVorship of the Host in the Papacy to be Idolatry 2. Dr. More holds that the placing and reverencing Images in Churches is Idolatry Dr. Thorndike ch 19. holds that the placing and reverencing Images in Churches is not Idolatry 3. Dr. More will have Invocation of Saints to be inexcusable Idolatry Dr. Thorndike ch 16. excuses Invocation of Saints from Idolatry 4. Lastly Dr. More exhorts all men to separate from the Church of Rome as Idolaters But â—r Thorndike ch 1. avows to all the world that those who separate from the Church of Rome as Idolaters are thereby Schismaticks before God VVhen the two Doctors are fully agreed upon these Points Dr. More shall hear more from me if he desires it In the mean time I shall intreat him to respite my pen for some other Employment Repl. Dr. Thorndike I confess is a Person whom his years and repute of Learning have made venerable But what is this to the point in hand to the proveing the Charge of my being less regardfull then I should be in this Exhortation whether I speak true or false This is a mere popular Topick and this your whole last Section wherein you would fain offer something against this last Chapter of my Antidote but a loose and weak stroke of Rhetorick to drive the simple into your Church as I have seen men drive Geese or Turkies on the high way to London with a stick and long string with a red cloth tyed at the end of it as you annex the splendid name of Dr. Thorndike at the end of this Section to either scare or incourage poor Souls to your Communion But does Dr. Thorndikes being of another mind from me prove that I am in the wrong If this be to conâ—uâ—e a man I can easily conâ—ute Dr. Thorndike himself by shewing that Persons not onely of very eminent Learning but of clear and terse judgments differ from Dr. Thorndike in all these four Antitheses Mr. Ioseph Mede of our Colledge who was so modest a Soul that though he had worth to furnish out I know not how many Doctorships never commenced Doctor let us for the time to make the Comparison more plausible call him Doctor as well as my Adversary does Doctor Thorndike and then say Dr. Thorndike denies the worshipping the Host to be Idolatry Dr Mede affirms it to be Idolatry Dr. Thorndike holds the honouring of Images in Churches to be no Idolatry Dr. Mede affirms it to be Idolatry c. Where is Dr. Thorndike now Nay suppose I should put that eminently Learned Prelate of the Church of England and of singular clearness of Reason and Judgement Bishop Downham once of Christs Colledge in the balance with Dr. Thorndike who in these things is exquisitely of the same mind with Dr. Mede in what elevation would Dr. Thorndike appear then The same I may say of the Archbishop of Armagh Bishop Jewel Arch-bishop Abbot and several other Bishops and Doctors of our Church who at least joyntly if not in several will surely counterpoize the weight of Dr. Thorndikes name Indeed I might say the whole Body of our Church as subscribers to the Homilies of our Church affirm in all these points against Dr. Thorndike Nay I dare with all confidence assert that no man can make any good sense of the 13th and 17th Chapters of the Apocalypse but he will plainly discern that the very Spirit of God himself has declared against him What poor and simple Souls then must they be that can be scared out of the Truth or