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A00793 The answere vnto the nine points of controuersy, proposed by our late soueraygne (of famous memory) vnto M. Fisher of the Society of Iesus And the reioynder vnto the reply of D. Francis VVhite minister. With the picture of the sayd minister, or censure of his writings prefixed. Fisher, John, 1569-1641.; Floyd, John, 1572-1649. 1626 (1626) STC 10911; ESTC S102112 538,202 656

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●f his spirit inwardly mouing the heart of man to ●dhere vnto an infallible externall ground of assurance proposed vnto him God by the helpe of his grace making him apprehend diuinely of the authority thereof This second manner of inward assurance is ordinarily giuen vnto euery Christiā without (r) Triden sess 6. Can. 3. Arausican 2. Can. 6. which no man is able to belieue supernaturally and as he ought vnto Saluation The first manner of assurance is extraordinary and immediate reuelation such as the Prophets had Wherfore Protestants if they callenge this first manner of inward teaching assurance they approue Enthusiasme immediat reuelatiō which in the Swenkfeldians they seeme to condemne If they challenge only the second manner of inward teaching and assurance then besides inward light they must assigne an externall sufficiēt ground why they belieue these Scriptures to be the Apostles then I aske what ground this is besides Tradition Secondly they wil obiect that though they haue no infallible ground besides the teaching of the Spirit yet they are not taught immediatly in Propheticall māner because they are also taught by an external probable motiue to wit the Churches tradition I Answere that except they assigne an externall infallible meanes besides Gods inward teaching they cannot auoyde but they challenge immediate reuelation For whosoeuer knoweth thinges assuredly by the inward teaching of the spirit without an external infallible motiue vnto which he doth adhere is assured prophetically though he haue some externall probable motiues so to thinke S. Peter had some coniecturall signes of Simon Magus his peruersity incorrigible malice yet seing (s) Act. 8.32 In felle amaritudinis obligatione peccati video te esse he knew it assuredly we belieue he knew it by the light of prophesy because besides inward assurance he had no externall infallible ground If one see a man giue publickly almes though he perceaue probable tokēs signes that he doth it out of a Vayne-glorious intention yet cannot he be sure therof but by the light of immediat reuelation because the other tokens are not grounds sufficient to make him sure For if a man be sure haue no ground of this assurance in any thinge out of his owne hart it is cleere that he is assured immediatly only by Gods inward speaking Wherfore Protestāts if they will disclayme in truth and not in wordes only from immediate reuelation and teaching they must eyther grant tradition to be infallible or else assigne some externall infallible ground besides Tradition whereby they are taught what Scriptures the Apostles deliuered Thirdly they will say they know the Scriptures to be from the Apostles by an externall infallible ground besides Tradition to wit by certayne lights lustres euidences of truth which they see to blaze emane from the thinges reuealed in Scripture by which they are sure that the doctrin thereof is heauenly I Answere If they did see such lustres and lights that cleerly not only probably conuince the doctrine of Scripture to be heauenly truth they be not indeed assured by immediate darke reuelation but by an higher degree of heauenly knowledge to wit by the supernaturall light and euidence of the thinge belieued which is a paradox and pretence farre more false and sensibly absurd then is the challenge of immediate reuelation or Enthusiasme as hath beene shewed Wherefore seing that God hath chosen no externall meanes besides Catholicke Tradition to make men know perpetually vntill the consummation of the world what doctrins Scriptures the Apostles published it is cleere vnto euery Christian that this is the meanes by him chosen which he doth assist that it cannot be obnoxious vnto errour so that precedently and independently of Scripture the Catholicke tradition of Christian pastors fathers is proued to be infallible through Diuine speciall assistance and therefore a sufficient ground for Fayths infallible assurance The Fourth Principle proued §. 6. IF we be resolued that sauing truth is that which God reuealed that he reuealed that which the Apostles published the doctrine published by then the Catholicke Christian Tradition our search is ended when we haue found the Christian Catholicke Church Heere the fourth Enemy of true Christian Religion offers himselfe to wit the Willfull Ignorant These kind of men not only hold agaynst Pagans the doctrine of saluation to be that only which was reuealed of God agaynst Iewes the reuealed of God to be only the Apostles but also in wordes they condemne the Heretikes professe that no doctrine is truly Apostolicall but the Catholick yet in resoluing what doctrin is the Catholicke they follow the partiality of their affections These are tearmed by (t) De vtil cred c. 1. S. Augustine Credentes haereticorum Belieuers of Heretikes building vpon the seeming learning and sanctity of some men being therein so willfull as to venture their soules that such doctrine is Catholike not caring nor knowing what they say nor what the word Catholicke put into the Creed by the Apostles doth import Some be so ignorant as to thinke that the word Catholicke doth signify the same as conforme vnto Scripture And so what doctrine is Catholicke they resolue by the light and lustre of the doctrine or by the in ward teaching of the spirit whereby they fall vpon the principle of Heresy and become not so much belieuers of Heretikes as Heretikes Some vnderstand by the word Catholicke Doctrine truly Catholicke that is deliuered frō the Apostles by Christian worlds of Fathers vnto Christian worlds of children yet are so blind as to giue this Title vnto Sects lately sprung vp which through pretended singular Illuminations gotten by perusing the Scripture haue chosen formes of fayth opposite one agaynst another reformed agaynst the forme to them deliuered by their Ancestors These Sects I say they tearme Catholicke which not to be Catholicke in this sense is as euident as that night is not day Some through willfull ignorance no lesse grossely deuide the name of Catholicke according to the diuision of Countryes naming the Catholicke doctrin of the Church of France of the Church of England c. Which speach hath no more sense then this A fashion euer since Christ vniuersally ouer the world newly begun and proper vnto England Agaynst this Enemy true Religion is resolued in this fourth principle The Catholicke Tradition of doctrine from the Apostles is the Roman By Roman we vnderstand not only the Religion professed within the Citty Diocesse of Rome but ouer the whole world by them that any where acknowledg the primacy of Peter and his successours which now is the Roman Bishop About this principle fayth is assured by a fourth perfection belonging vnto God as he is prime Verity reuealing truth which is that he cannot permit that the knowing of sauing doctrine be impossible Hence I argue God being Prime Verity reuealing cannot permit the meanes of knowing his sauing truth to be hidden nor a false meanes to
c. mother who falling into the hands of your Religion you held her so fast you griped her so hard as you droue the breath out of her body made her Sacred bloud run about her Annoynted Shoulders The Roman Religion in opposite hath giuen her by your paynting a Vizard and is made to stand treading vpon Crownes and Scepters to signify that she is by doctrine and practise a Deposer Contemner of Kings This Fancy would indeed be a Truth could you proue that Wickliffe Luther Caluin Beza Knox Buchanam Wittingham Goodman the like (b) See Bancroft Danger Posit VVhit l. 1. c. 4. l. 2. c 1. Protestāts Apolog. ●reface were Roman Catholikes Or could you shew that they were Papists of whom (c) Beza Ep. Theolog. 68. Beza sayth putting himselfe in the number What Churches should we now haue in the world had not this course been held to wit of erecting Churches by force of Armes in despite (*) Protestāts haue murdered fiue Catholik Kings or Princes They haue deposed Nine from their Kingdomes wholly or in part They haue set vp their Religiō at the least in fourty towns by force of Armes expelling the Magistrates murthering Priests Religious Persons breaking downe Images and burning Churches They haue byn at the least twenty seueral times in the field against their Catholik Soueraygnes six or seauen times against their soueraygnes that were presēt in persō All which may be proued by the testimony of Protestants if the margēt did permit Read Bancrofts Dangerous positiōs Osianders Epitom Histor. Centur. 16. the ●rotestāts Apolog. Preface of Princes and Magistrats So plainly doth he acknowledge your Churches to haue been euery where planted by treading vnder foote the Cōmands Edicts the Swords Gouernments the Crownes and Scepters of Kings The fourth opposition The Protestant Gentlewoman holdeth a pillar vnder her left Arme with a bough of palme in the same hand whereas the Roman hath on her left hand a Camelion sitting Your meaning is that you forsooth are stronge Constant in your Religion but we weake wauering ready to change for feare of persecution Your Constancy indeed is knowne that you are in your doctrines as immutable as the Moone In what point of Religion saith (d) Andraeas Duditius See Epist. Theol. Bezae epist. 1. 3. an eminēt Protestant be they that impugne the Roman Bishop firme and constant They COYNE MONETHLY FAITHS they are carryed away with the wind of euery doctrine What their Religiō is to day one may know but what it will be to morrow neyther themselues nor any mortall man can tell And whereas you make this your Gossippe to haue on her left side the pillar of Religion on her right the Crowne could any thing be more fit to expresse your Church of England For in her Religion Kings haue the better vpper hand of God the Apostolicall sentence We must rather obey God thē men is turned backward her Doctrine is mutable with the Princes pleasure that she may be better resembled by a Weather-cocke thē by a Pillar For what constācy can she haue that preferrs a Temporall Crowne before Christian Truth● The fifth Opposition betweene these two Women is in respect of the Tytles that are set ouer their heades yours being tearmed Veritas Vniuoca and ours Mendacium Aequiuocum Veritas vniuoca being in English Verity taught by the professours thereof with one voyce with vniforme consent I thinke the Reader will smile at your good Inuention that you could find no truer Tytle for your Gospell For what more notorious to the world then that your reformed Professours are Vniuocall in the doctrine they preach as diuine truth euen as the builders of Babel were Vniuocall in language after the diuision of their tōgues Vnto the Roman Religiō which doth detest lying about any the least thing which cōdemnes Equiuocall Ambiguous speach in the affayre of Religion in matters of Bargayne in familiarity of (e) See the Treatise tending to Mitigation Speach why doe you tearme her Mendacium Aequiuocum Vpon no other ground but in regard she teacheth that a Christian to defend his life and goods from the Tyranny of Oppressours may sometymes vse ambiguous and reserued speach A practise expressely allowed in Scripture as (f) Gregor in exposit l. 1. Reg. c. 16. His verbis ostenditur quòd Tyrannorum saeuitia atque versutia quandoque est PIA FRAVDE deludenda sic tamen Tyranni deludendi sunt vt caueatur culpa mendacii Quod tūc bene perficitur cùm illud quod fit asseritur sed quod fit sic dicitur vt celetur quia ex parte dicitur ex parte reticetur sayth S. Gregory The Scripture sheweth that the crafty cruelty of Tyrants is sometymes to be deluded by PIOVS FRAVD so sauing our selues from their malice that we tell not a Lye which then is well performed whē what is done is affirmed yet so affirmed as what is done is also cōcealed the thing being vttered in part and in part not vttered but retayned in mind I hope I haue cleerly discouered the falshood inanity of your Frontispiciall Emblemes and Pageants which occasioned my setting this Picture before the Reioynder the rather also to make your Image perfect and complete in the Entrance of both our ●ookes put togeather that the Reader may behold in the one the Out-side in the other the In-side of your Venerable Selfe If Caluin (g) Caluin lib. de scandalis sayd true of Ministers Praeclarum quidem zelum simulant they can make an excellent fayre shew of Zeale I will not deny but your Paynters curious hand hath elegantly set forth your Out-side For he hath paynted in your Face a fayre shew of Zeale of Modesty of Wisdome of Grauity specially in your demure looke Veluet cap and gray Beard so combed and handsomely composed as your Wife may seeme to haue had her fingar in the trimming thereof aswell as in the setting of your Ruffe But quid si intus excutias What if we looke into the In-side Heere your Paynters Pensill fayled him which defect some body perchance your selfe vndertooke to supply with his Poeticall Quil setting these verses vnder your Picture and the Picture of your Booke wearing a Crowne Wisdome Grace see in that modest looke Truth 's Triumph Errours downfall in this Booke But this is not liuely paynting of your In-side to the eye but only Verball Assertion of your hidden Worth to the eare which if one will reiect as the fabulous cōceyt of a Poet what can be replyed Or if you be Author of the Verses your selfe some perhaps will attribute these prayses not vnto Truth but vnto your Fawning with ouer-fauourable Fancyes vpon your owne Learning Triumphing before the Victory and vsurping a Crowne without right What then shall I doe how may I set forth the true vndeniable figure of your In-side Your (h) Reply pag. ●74 selfe say
Christian deuided amongst themselues and notorious changers According to this notion the Church is euer visible sensible to all men euen vnto her very enemies For not only Iewes and Infidels but euen Heretickes know in their conscience and sometimes acknowledge in words that the Church is truly Catholike So long as the Church according to this notion of Catholicke is in the sight of the world the world hath sufficient meanes of saluation They that see with their eyes which Religion is Catholicke may easily find out the truth For it is cleer to common reason that the Catholike Doctrine is the Apostles cleere by common discourse that the Apostles miraculous preaching was of God and that God being the prime verity his doctrine ought to be receaued as the truth of saluation On the other side if the Church according to the notion of Catholike be hidden and the light therof lost there is no ordinary meanes left for men to know what the Apostles taught nor consequently what God by inspiration reuealed vnto them We must begin againe anew from a second fountaine of immediat reuelation from God and build vpon the new planting of Religion with miracles in the world by some recent Prophet And if this be absurd then there must euer be in the world a Church whose Tradition is illustriously Catholicke and consequently shewing it selfe to be the Apostles vnto all men that will not be obstinate visible and conspicuous For the Traditiōs of the Church must euer be famous glorious and most notoriously knowne in the world that a Christian may truly say with S. Augustine de vtilit cred c. 17. I belieue nothing but the consent of Nations and countries and most celebrious fame Now if the Church were hidden secret inuisible in any age then her Traditions could not be Doctrines euer illustriously knowne but rather obscure hidden Apocriphall Ergo the Church the mistresse pillar and foundation of truth must be alwaies visible and conspicuous which if need be may be further proued most euidently Thirdly that this Church is Apostolicall and that apparently descending from the Apostolicall Sea by succession of Bishops (d) The Church that hath a lineall succession of Bishops from the Apostles famous and illustrious whereof not one hath beene opposite in religion to his immediate predecessour proues euidently that this Church hath the doctrin of the Apostles for as in the ranke of 300. stones ranged in order if no two stones be found in that line of different colour then if the first be white the second is white so the rest vnto the last euen so if there be a succession of 300. Bishops all of the same Religion if the first haue the Religion of the Apostles and of Peter the second likewise hath the same and so the rest euen vntill the last vsque ad Confessionem generis humani euen to the acknowledgment of humane kind as S. Augustine l. de vtil Cred. cap. 17. speaketh for how could the Tradition of Christian Doctrine be eminently and notoriously Apostolicall if the Church deliuering the same hath not a (e) The Minister sayth p. 67. circa finem That this note of succession makes nothing against the Church of England because their Pastors and Bishops are able to exhibite a pedigree or deriuation both of their ministery and doctrine from the Apostles This is ridiculous For if they can really exhibite such a pedigree and deriuation of their fayth in all ages from Christ to Luther why do they still keepe vs in suspence and neuer exhibite the same which we so earnestly beg at their hands Let them but name the Church or Pastour that did commit vnto Luther the Ministery of preaching his doctrines against the Roman religion The Roman Church made him priest gaue him cōmission to preach her doctrine but to preach agaynst her Religion who gaue him order That commission to preach seeing he had it not frō any Church as is manifest he had it eyther from himselfe coyning a religion of his owne head out of Scripture vnderstood in his owne manner or from Satan with whome he conferred and vnto whose arguments he yielded as himselfe doth witnes Tom. 7. Wittenberg fol. 228. or els immediatly from God and then he ought to haue made this immediate reuelation knowne by miracles Let not Ministers therfore idly say we can exhibite a pedigree feeding vs with wordes but affoard vs present payment of so long an exacted debt If they know the pedegree of their faith the labour is not great to write the names of their Ancestours in euery age That done they may rest For if we cannot demonstrate that these their pretended Ancestours were eyther Catholike Romans or else opposite one to another in substantiall points and this by as authentike records as they do to prooue they held some points of their Religion the victory shall be theirs Is it possible they should thus delude men by saying we can exhibite and yet neuer do it manifest and conspicuous pedigree or deriuation from the Apostles Which is a conuincing argument vsed by the same S. Augustine Epist. 48. circa medium How can we thinke that we haue receiued manifestly Christ if we haue not also receiued manifestly his Church It is a principle of Philosophy Propter quod vnum quodque tale illud magis but the name of Christ his glory his vertues his miracles are to the world famously knowne frō age to age by reason of the Church her preaching who in her first Pastors saw him with their eies Ergo this Church must needes be more famous more illustrious as able to giue fame euen vnto the being and doctrine and actions of Christ. Fourthly this Church is One that is all the Pastors (f) The Minister pag. 108. lin 14. alleadgeth the differences amongst Schoolemē particularly betwixt Dominicās Iesuits about the manner of explicating the efficacy of Grace as an argument that the Roman Church wants vnity of faith as much as Protestants I answer this is Idle these differences not being in matters of faith If Scholmen should preach different doctrines as matters of fayth condemning ech other as Heretikes and the Church this notwithstanding should alow of both sides as her children then there should be in the Church disunion in fayth But the Roman Church doth not allow such dissonant Preachers only she permitteth them to differ in matters they teach as greater probability and priuate opinion If any preach their priuate probabilityes as Doctrines and as matters of fayth condemning others as heretikes except they recall their censure the Roman Church shutteth them out of her communion not permitting disunion in faith For such permittāce would vtterly discredit the authority of her preaching shew that euen in matters of faith she is a Church to be belieued no further thē seene and Preachers therof deliuer and consequently all her professors and children belieue one the same fayth For if the Preachers and Pastors
any Doctrines preiudiciall vnto Princes be singular vnto Iesuits that is held by the consent of Iesuits and by Iesuits only why do you not name these opinions what they are Why do you dwell vpon generalyties according to the custome of cosening Companions Dolosus versatur in Generalibus Why but because you know that descending vnto particulars your falshood would presently be displaied Hence you talke in the ayre and in effect thus you discourse I know there be certayne opinions mayntayned singularly by Iesuits agaynst Royall Soueraignety what they are I doe not know For they be written in bookes as inuisible as was our Church before Luther no where to be found but in the Globe of the Moone and are no wayes to be read but by the light therof The opinion for which some Catholicks at whome you glance as appeares by your margent haue taxed Iesuits of singularity is that God hath assured Prescience of thinges contingent not only of which shall in time actually happen but also of what vpon suppositions which neuer were might haue beene For example God knoweth certaynly whether these conditionall propositions be true or false If King Henry the eight had neuer seene Anne Bullen England had been Catholicke at this day If Queene Mary of Scotland had fled into France whē she came into England shee had recouered her Kingdome agaynst the Rebells If the miracles Christ did in Iewry had been done in Tyrus and Sidon those Cityes would haue done pennance This doctrine some Deuines mislike and say the same was first inuented by Iesuits Which if it be true then haue Protestants done Iesuits wronge that relate this very doctrine of Gods conditionall Prescience as the doctrine of their Reformed Gospell Field of the Church l. 3. c. 23. pag. 122. But I pray you what is this to your Scope The doctrine that God knowes the state of things conditionally contingent what makes it agaynst the Soueraignty of Princes Do you not see you are ridiculous Secondly If Iesuits be not singular in their doctrines to the depression of Kings wherefore was Iesuit Suarez his Booke contra sectam Anglicanam condemned at Paris in France and burnt by the hand of the Hang-man Answere I likewise demand of you if Iesuit Suarez his booke be preiudiciall to Princely authority why is the same allowed in all other Catholicke kingdoms so as the King by his sollicitations could not get the same to be condemned Do not other kingdomes know the Catholike Extent of Royall Authority zealously mantaining the Soueraignty therof How can that doctrin be singular of Iesuits vnto which Bishops secular Doctours and Religious of other Orders haue set their names by way of Approbation as is to be seene in the beginning of that Treatise And if your Argument be good Iesuit Suarez his booke was in France burnt by the hand of the Hangman Ergo the Order of the Iesuits holds doctrine to the preiudice of Princes surely this Argument is strong and vnanswerable Minister Paraeus his booke was in London publickly burnt by the hand of the Hangman by Order of the Kinge wherein no Papist had his hand Ergo the Protestant Ministry holds doctrines pernicious vnto the State of Princes The third Argument Wherefore were Iesuits banished out of the Dominions of the Venetians professing the Roman Fayth if they are guilty of no singularity about the matter of Regall and Ciuill Authority Answere Why are Iesuits permitted desired and sought for by all other Catholick Kingdomes and States of the world if they be guilty of singularity agaynst Regall and Ciuil Authority Should one dispute in this sort Wherefore was Chrysostome Socrat. l. 6. c. 26. alij banished out of the Catholicke Citty of Constantinople by the Catholicke Emperour Arcadius at the instance of the Catholicke Empresse in a Councell of Catholicke Bishops but that he was guilty of treason agaynst Royall Authority What would a learned Answerer say He would laugh at the Disputants folly and tell him that Kings and States may be put into displeasure and Passion against the Ministers of Gods holy Word so banish them their Dominions not only for singularity agaynst Ciuill Authority but for other reasons as for their ouer zealous inueighing agaynst vitious life constant crossing of their disordinate humours I could bring many examples of iust holy men banished by Catholicks yea by pious and godly Kings and States vpon mistakings suspitions false informations S. Athanasius that mirrour of sanctity learning vnto whome the Church of God is more beholding then to the whole world which then liued besides was he not for suspitions about temporall Affayres banished by Constantine the Great the first Christian Emperour the patterne of Religious Princes Ruffin l. 1. c. 17. God permits such trialls to fall on his Seruants for the exercise of their Patience vntill time discouer the truth which being sufficiently cleered if men still remayne obdurate his Iustice will not sleepe The fourth Argument Mariana the Iesuits worke de Institutione Principis wherin he maintayneth Regicide is extant in many hands Answere The example of Mariana proueth not that Iesuits hold singular opinions agaynst others but only that Mariana was singular agaynst the rest of his Order which through the ouersight of Reuisors passed to the print A thinge that may sometymes happen which to preuent the Generall of the Iesuits gaue that seuere Order about reuiewing of Bookes in that kind which the Iesuit hath set downe in his Answere That Iesuit Mariana was singular agaynst the rest appeares in that he was confuted by name of some of his own Order for this doctrine euen before the censure of Paris See the letter of Cotton And if you will allow agaynst the common Prouerbe One swallow makes not a Summer that the errour of one be sufficient be condemne a whole Society then the Minister Paraeus his Worke wherein he mantaynes Deposition and Regicide must make all Ministers guilty specially seing not one of them wrote agaynst Paraeus his booke before the same was publickely burnt in London Nor was Mariana his doctrine in the behalfe of the Popes as you oftē ignorantly suppose but of the Commōwealths Power agaynst Tyrants A Doctrine which Iesuits condemne but Protestants commonly follow I could name twenty of their Authours that peremptorily affirme what Mariana did only doubtingly propose yea much more For do not Protestants teach See the booke of Dangerous positions lib. 1. c. 4. l. 2. c. 1. That Iudges ought by the law of God so summon Princes before them for their crimes and to proceed agaynst them as agaynst all other offenders That it is lawfull to kill wicked Kings and Tyrants That God to the people hath giuen the sword from which no person King Queen Emperour is exempt Being an Idolater he must dy the death An hundred the like Theorems of your Gospell and Gospellers could I alleadge to stop your mouth the opinion which Mariana did doubtfully insinuate being farre short of