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england_n	according_a	act_n	advice_n	44	3	7.6797	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A54844	The new discoverer discover'd by way of answer to Mr. Baxter his pretended discovery of the Grotian religion, with the several subjects therein conteined : to which is added an appendix conteining a rejoynder to diverse things both in the Key for Catholicks, and in the book of disputations about church-government and worship, &c. : together with a letter to the learned and reverend Dr. Heylin, concerning Mr. Hickman and Mr. Bashaw / by Thomas Pierce ...	Pierce, Thomas, 1622-1691.	1659 (1659)	Wing P2186; ESTC R44	268,193	354

with which you have any the least Agreement Reduce your proof then a second time into a syllogisme truly made and your case will be alter'd but nothing mended Your fall into the Fire will indeed be regular but you will get no more by it than if you continue in the frying-pan For your truly form'd Syllogism will be but thus whosoever hath none but a Deacon or Deacons to attend him is a Primitive Bishop A Presbyter hath ●one but a Deacon or Deacons to attend him Therefore a Presbyter is a Primitive Bishop Here the matter is as untoward as the Form was before The Major proposition being admirably false For though a man may be a Bishop who hath no more to attend him when no more are to be had and that because no more are needfull which is the thing that Dr. Hammond hath often taught you yet his having no more doth not prove him to be a Bishop which was the thing to be proved from Dr. Hammond When Ignatius reckons the Three Orders Bishops Priests and Deacons 't is as impossible for him to meane that Priests are Bishops as that Deacons are Priests For though every Bishop is a Priest it can no more follow that every Priest is a Bishop than it can possibly follow that every Animal is a man because it is true that every man is an Animal A Primitive Bishop and a meer Presbyter may have a Conversion per Accidens and another conversion by Contraposition but a simple conversion they cannot have To say they can without proof is but the begging of the Question which being sure to be denyed you I shall advise you to beg no more I will conclude this subject with a remarkable passage of Mr. Thorndike And I will do it so much the rather because the weightiness and the price of that excellent Volume may probably keep it from the perusal of vulgar Readers who onely meddle with the cheapest Bookes Mr. Thorndik's judgement of Presbyt Ordinations c. In his Epilogue to the Tragoed Of the Ch. of Engl. Concl. p. 408. The Presbyterians sometimes pleade their Ordination in the Church of England for the authority by which they ordaine others against the Church of England to do that which they received authority from the Church of England to do provided that according to the order of it A thing so ridiculously senseless that common reason refuseth it Can any state any society do an act by virtue whereof there shall be right and authority to destroy it Can the Ordination of the Church of England proceeding upon supposition of a solemn promise before God and his Church to execute the ministry a man receiveth according to the order of it inable him to do that which he was never ordained to do Shall he by failing of his promise by the act of that power which supposed his promise receive authority to destroy it Then let a man obtaine the Kingdom of Heaven by transgressing that Christianity by the undertaking whereof he obtained right to it They are therefore meer Congregations voluntarily constituted by the will of those all whos● acts even in the sphere of their ministry once received are become voide by their failing of that promise in consideration whereof they were promoted to it Voide I say not of the crime of Sacriledge towards God which the usurpation of Core constituteth but of the effect of Grace towards his people For the like voluntary combining of them into Presbyteries and Synodes createth but the same equivocation of words when they are called Churches to signifie that which it visible by their usurpation in point of fact not that which is invisible by their authority in point of right For want of this authority whatsoever is done by virtue of that usurpation being voide before God I will not examine whether the form wherein they execute the Offices of the Church which they think fit to exercise agree with the ground and intent of the Church or not Onely I charge a peculiar nullity in their consecrating the Eucharist by neglecting the Prayer for making the elements the dody and blood of Christ without which the Church never thought it could consecrate the Eucharist Whether having departed from the Church Presbyteries and Congregations scorne to learne any part of their duty from the Church least that might seem to weaken the ground of their departure or whether they intend that the elements remaine meer signes to strengthen mens faith that they are of the number of the elect which they are before they be consecrated as much as afterwards the want of cons●cration rendering it no Sacrament that is ministred the ministring of it upon a ground destructive to Christianity renders it much more Immoderat● vi●ulence towards those of the Episcopal way Sect. 39. I now returne to your long Preface from whence I stept into your book that the things of one Nature might be consider'd together in one Head That for which I am next to complain of you unto your self is your immoderate bitternesse to the Episcopal way and to the men of all qualities who dare to own it Many Gushes of it there are of which I will here transcribe a few * Praef. to Disp. of Church-Gov p. 17. We see that most of the ungodly in the land are the forwardest for your waies You may have almost all the Drunkards Blasphemers and Ignorant haters of godliness in the Country to vote for you and if they durst againe to fight for you at any time The spirit of prophaneness complyeth with you Ibid. and doteth on you in all places that ever I was acquainted in * Grot. Rel. p. 113. should one of you now pretend to be the Bishop of a Diocess you would have a small Clergy and none of the best and the people in most Parishes that are most ignorant drunken prophane unruly with some civil persons of your mind c. * P. 114. The cause of their love to Episcopacy is because it was a shadow if not a shelter to the Prophane heretofore and did not trouble them with discipline and because they troubled and kept under the Puritanes whom they hated But if you did not exercise Discipline on them your Churches would be but the very sinks of all other Churches about you to receive the filth that they all cast out and so they would be so great a reproach to Episcopacy that would make it vile in the eyes of sober men So that a Prelatical Church would in the common account be near kin to an Alehouse or Tavern to say no worse * ● 11● So that for my part were I your enemy I would wish you a toleration but being really a friend to the Church and you I shall make a better motion c. Whilst you rail at this rate not onely without but against all reason nor onely beside but against your own knowledge as if it were your design to be voted for an ill

Christ in the Eucharist speaking of the most moderate whom he ever concludes the most worthy Protestants And with them he demonstrates how the most moderate Papists may be agreed by a commodious explication of words and meanings on either fide Nor doth he say in that place that the Protestants Article should be conformed to the Papists but that This should be made to comply with That Si quiescant Scholasticae Disputationes quid est cur non verba Concilii Tridentini explicari commode possint c. aut etiam recipi illa formula quam ex Actis Possiacenis desumpsi quam omnes qui ibi ●●m erant Protestantes excepto un● P. Mart. approbarunt Animadv p. 29 30. Nay he addes expresly that the whole Protestant Form should be received and accepted as he had taken it out of the Acts agreed upon at Poissy where excepting Peter Martyr not one dissented Arg. 10. After this when he speaks to the twenty-first Article he reckons himself with the Protestants by way of discrimination from all the Papists comprehending even the French as well as the Spanish and Italian If we should count them all Idolaters who live in Communion with the Romanists it would extremely hinder our wish'd-for union Videbam mul●um obstare concordiae si omnes eos qui in communione sunt Romana pro Idololatris haber●mus gnarus Idololatriam esse eminentissimum seculi crimen ib. p. 43 44. This he renders for the reason why he who laboured a Reconcilement which would have carried with it a Reformation was not in reason to accuse the whole Universe of Papists without exception of the greatest crime in the world making them odious to others as well as implacable in themselves and most of all with the Reconciler It being his office not to widen breaches but to contract them nor to imbitter but emolliate the minds of men especially of the great and prevailing party The words of Grotius have this rational importance I saw it would hinder out Reconcilement if we who are Protestants should repute for Idolaters even all that are of the Roman Church or Communion though too many of them indeed are such This appears by the word omnes co●pared with habe●emus and with the person's Religion to whom he speaks Arg. 11. In his Votum pro pace he professeth that even the moderate and most peaceable Romanists were of a different communion from that whereof he professeth himself to be Verti me ad eos legendos qui etsi fuere in Communione diversa animum tamen magis ad sananda quàm ad fovenda divortia appulere Vo. pro pace p. 9. * p. 7 8 9. He deploreth the superstition with other corruptions and abuses which he saw had invaded the Church of Rome He saith Cassander's Consultation was commended to him by † p. 10 G●saubon a famous Protestant And that his labour thereupon was approved in France * ibid. by both the opposite parties He shews what † Prompta sunt in Galliis Hispaniisque Remedia quibus impediantur Papae ●e aut Regum aut Episcoporum jura invadant p. 12. Remedies there are to cure the Popes of their Disease to put Hooks in their Nostrills and in despight of their ambition to preserve the just Rights of Kings and Bishops Nay he acknowledgeth the * ibid. Right of the Kings of Britain about all Ecclesiastical both Things and Persons which for a Papist to have done would have implied a contradiction But any thing will be Popery with them that out-act their Master Calvin who † Et illam mutationem quae Buceri Consilio in Anglia erat instituta Papismi accusavit pag. 115. accused that change in the Church of England which was made by the advice of so known a Protestant as Bucer of no lesser a crime then downright Papisme which unreasonable censure of our Church whether hi● passion or his judgement extorted from him and whether it was not a contradiction to what he spake of her at other times I leave you to guesse by his large Epistle to the Protector and that you know was in the dayes of King Edward the sixth But if to accuse were sufficient it i● sufficient that Mr. Calvin was accused of Iudaisme by one by another of Turcisme by a third Redolens plane Calvini spiritum contumeliosum illú ac turbulentū Animadv p. 81. Quum sciam quàm inique virulente tractaverat viros multo se meliores c. ibid. pag. 9. of Fratricide by almost all the Latherans of the Arian heresie and even by Grotius himself who hardly ever spake in passion or without a just ground of a co●tumelious and turbulent spirit and of virulently handling such men as were much his betters A●g 12. In his Epistles to the French-men of either party he doth so frequently and so clearly discover himself to be a Protestant that out of them it were easie to write a volume in his defence To give you an instance in as few as I may and not in as many as I am able * Epist. 154 Iohanne Cordefio p. 378. Epist. 166. Eidem p. 408. He writes against the seven Sacraments I mean against the number of them and against four of that number so tenaciously retained by all Rome He speaks s●arply of the † Epist. 154. p. 377. Iesuits from his meer humanity to one of the best of which order you hastily conclude him to be a Papist p. 86. and would have the●r evil Arts set out to the life as an anonymous Iansenian hath lately done If his esteem of Petavius a lover of unity and moderation could make you think him a Papist you must also suppose him to be a Protestant for disesteeming many more of the very same Order especially when he reckons that he and they are of two Religions as indeed he doth in one Epistle Dubium est apud meos an apud Iesuitas magis vapulem c. Epist. 14. pag. 36 37. Hotm Villerio where he also calls the Pope the Patriarch of the West and shews what it is which he would have towards a peace even the spirit of Melanch●hon on the one side and of Cassander on the other and a mutual forbearance with one another 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in things which are not simply necessary Will not every good Protestant desire the same yet he went farther and accounted them of * Apud meos quidem quod illud apud ipfos 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 defendo posse in unaquaque Ecclesia ferri eos qui dissideant in rebus non plane necessariis ●bid his party who would not hear of any such thing Such was his moderation towards that sort of men who had none at all Arg. 13. I find that Grotius his desire of helping forward the peace of Christendom was the same in the former as in the later part of his life and so was his love to the Church of