Selected quad for the lemma: england_n
Text snippets containing the quad
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A11308
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The fyrst dialogue in Englisshe with newe additions.; Dyaloge in Englysshe.
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Saint German, Christopher, 1460?-1540.; Saint German, Christopher, 1460?-1540. Dialogus de fundamentis legum Anglie et de conscientia. aut
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1532
(1532)
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STC 21568; ESTC S116337
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214,256
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498
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¶ Student I wyll with good wyll ⧠Whether an abbot may with coÌ„scieÌ„ce present to an aduouson of a churche that beloÌ„geth to the house without assente of the couent The .xxvi. chapitre DOctour It appereth iÌ„ the chapitre Eanoscitur de hus que fiunt a prelates / the whiche chapitre is recited in the summe called Summa angelica in the title abbas the .xxvii. article that he maye nat without any costume or any speciall priuilege do helpe there iii. Student Trouthe it is that there is suche a decretale / but they that be lerned in the lawe of Englande holde that decretale byndeth not in thys realme / and thys is the cause why they do holde that oppynyon By the lawe of the realme the hole disposicion of the laÌ„des and goodes of the abbey is the abbot only for the tyme that he is abbot not in the couent / for they be but as deed persones iÌ„ the lawe therfore the abbot shall sue be sued onely without the coueÌ„t do homage fealtie atturne make leases preseÌ„t to aduousons onely in his owne name / they saye farther that this aucthoritie can not be taken fro hym but by the lawe of the realme / and so they say that the makers of that decretale excedyd theyr power wherfore they say it is not to be holden in conscience / no more than if a decre were made that a lease for terme of yeres or at wyll made by the abbot withoute the coueÌ„te shuld be immedyatly voyde / so they thynke that the abbot may iÌ„ thys case preseÌ„t iÌ„ his owne name without offeÌ„ce of coÌ„science by cause the sayd decretale holdeth nat iÌ„ this realme ¶ Doctoure But many be of oppynyoÌ„ that no man hath aucthorytye to present in ryght and conscience to any benefice with cure but the pope or he that hath his aucthorytye thereiÌ„ deriuied fro the Pope for they saye that for as moche as the Pope is the vycar general vnder god hath the charge of the soules of all people that be in the floke of Christes churche it is reasoÌ„ that syth he cannat ministre to all ne do that is necessarie to all the people for theyr soule helthe in his owne persoÌ„ that he shall assygne deputyes for his dyscharge iÌ„ that behalfe / bycause patrons clayme to present to churches in this realme by theyr owne ryght without tytle deriuied fro the Pope they saye that they vsurpe vpon the popes authoritie / therfore they conclude that thoughe the abbot haue title by the lawe of the realme to present iÌ„ this case iÌ„ his owne name that yet bycause that title is against the popes prerogatiue that that title ne yet the lawe of the realme that mayntenyth that tytle holdeth not iÌ„ coÌ„scyence And they say also that it belongeth to the lawe canon to determine the ryght of pÌ„sentmeÌ„t of benefices for it is a thynge spirituall and belongeth to the spirituall iurisdiccioÌ„ as the depryuacioÌ„ fro a benefice doth so they saye the sayd decretale biÌ„deth iÌ„ coÌ„scyeÌ„ce thoughe iÌ„ the lawe of the realme it binde nat ¶ StudeÌ„t As to thy fyrste coÌ„sideracion I wolde ryght well agre that if the patroÌ„s of churches in this realme claymed to put encumbentes in to suche churches as shulde fall voyde of theyr patronage without pÌ„seÌ„ting them to the bysshop or if they claymed that the bhysshop shold admit suche encumbent as they shulde present without any examinacion to be made of his abylite in that behalfe / that that clayme were agaiÌ„st reasoÌ„ and coÌ„scyeÌ„ce for the cause that thou hast rehercyd but for as moche as the patroÌ„s iÌ„ thê realme clayme no more but to pÌ„sent theyr encuÌ„bentes to the bisshop theÌ„ the bysshop to examin the abylitie of the encumbeÌ„t / if he fynde hym by the examinacyoÌ„ nat able to haue cure of soule / he theÌ„ to refuse hiÌ„ the patrone to preseÌ„t another that shal be able / if he be able thaÌ„ the bisshop to admit hiÌ„ iÌ„stitute hiÌ„ iÌ„ducte him I thiÌ„ke that this clayme theyr pÌ„sentemeÌ„tes therupon stande with good reason and coÌ„scyence / and as to the seconde consideracyoÌ„ it is holden in the lawes of the realme that the right of preseÌ„tement to a churche is a temporall enherytauÌ„ce shall desceÌ„de by course of enheritauÌ„ce fro heyre to heyre as laÌ„des tenementes shall shall be takeÌ„ as an asses as laÌ„des tenemeÌ„tes be for the tryall of the ryght of patronages be ordeyned iÌ„ the lawe diuers accyoÌ„s for theÌ„ that be wroÌ„ged in that behalfe as writtes of ryght of aduouson Assises of â—aren presentement Quare impedit diuers other / whiche alwaye withoute / time of mynde haue ben pledyd in the kynges courtes as thinges preteyning to his crowne roiall dygnytie / and therfore they saye that in this case his lawes ought to be obeyed in lawe and conscience ¶ Doctoure If it come in variaunce whether he that is so pÌ„sented be able or nat able be whome shall the abilitie be tried ¶ StudeÌ„t if the ordinarie be nat partie to the accyon it shall be tried be the ordinarie / and if he be partie it shall be tryed be the metropolitane ¶ Doctoure Than the lawe is more reasonable in that poynt than I thought it had ben but iÌ„ the other poynt I will take aduisement in it tyll a nother tyme / and I pray the shewe me thy mynde in thê poynt if an abbot name his couent with hym in his presentacyon doth that make the pÌ„sentacion voyde in the lawe or is the presentacyon good that nat withstaÌ„ding ¶ Student I thynke it is nat voyd therfore but the namyng of theym is voyde a thyng more thaÌ„ nedeth / for if the abbot be disturbed he muste brynge hys accion in hys owne name withoute the couente ¶ Doctoure Then I perceyue well that it is nat prohibit in the lawe of Englande but that the abbot may name the couent iÌ„ his presentacion with hym / and also take theyr assent whom he shall presenet if he wyll / and then I holde it the surest waye that he so do / for in so doynge he shall nat offeÌ„de nother in lawe nor coÌ„scieÌ„ce ¶ Student To take the asseÌ„t of the coueÌ„t whome he shall presente and to name them also in the presentacyon / knowynge that he may do otherwyse bothe iÌ„ lawe and conscience if he will / is no offeÌ„ce But if he take theyr assent or name them with hym in the presentacyon thinkynge that he is so bounde to do in lawe and conscyence / settyng a coÌ„science where none is / and regareth nat the lawe of the realme that wyll dyscharg his conscyence in this behalfe if he will so that he present an able man as he maye do without theyr assent / there is an erroure and offence of conscynce in the abbot And in lyke wise if the abbot preseÌ„t iÌ„ his owne name / and therfore the couent