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A26924 The English nonconformity as under King Charles II and King James II truly stated and argued by Richard Baxter ; who earnestly beseecheth rulers and clergy not to divide and destroy the land and cast their own souls on the dreadful guilt and punishment of national perjury ... Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1689 (1689) Wing B1259; ESTC R2816 234,586 307

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A thousand will be unnamed when you have done your best at it But the Rule must not name every Errour against it The contrariety will be discernable It is enough that men profess a perfect Rule and renounce all contrary and be responsible to the Church and their Rulers when they corrupt Religion contrary to the Rule and their own Profession An Errour not manifested hurts not others and none is punishable till proved If Heresy be kept secret the Church must not make new Laws and Tests to make men confess it but punish it when it is vented L. But shall Ministers make no profession but what a Papist or a Heretick will make M. No if a Papist or Heretick will profess all that is necessary else we must make more Must we make new Creeds or new Scriptures as oft as dissemblers will falsely profess that already made This was the temptation to those multitudes of Creeds by which Councils distracted the Churches which Hilary decryeth L. But the Bishops will never take down the Oath of Canonical Obedience and all the other Oaths and Subscriptions that are formed to their Interest M. I cannot help that Over-doing is un-doing If ever Episcopacy be cast out it will be by such over-doing which will not let men live in Peace that would not molest them L. 6. Why do you seem to grant the Bishops and Patrons votes in the choice of Pastors when before you seem to have much against them M. I have nothing against the Ordainers judging of the fitness of the Ordained nor of Magistrate or Patrons disposal of Temples and Tithes And because nothing but necessity will weigh down the great inconvenience of maintaining distinct Pastors while ● setled Lecturer hath the Temple and Tithes therefore I suppose that the Bishop and Patron will have their Votes And I suppose you know that it is vain to motion to Patrons to resign this power were it worse than it is else Advowsons would not be sold at such rates as they are by many Patrons And my silence where speaking will do no good is no sign of my approbation L. But do you think that the Communicants shall have a negative Vote in choosing Pastors M. I think they will not till God raise up better men than many Patrons are But I am past doubt that God's Law of Nature and Scripture and the whole consent of ancient Churches Fathers and Councils are for it And methinks were not carnal Interest stronger with them than Religion men that are professedly for God's Law and Church-Canons and Customs should not obstinately oppose them all Yea the highest Episcopal Men are in this against them Mr. Thorndike saith that till the Clergy and People again choose their own Bishops there needs no other reason be given of the contempt of Episcopacy Yea I have proved past denial oft that no Non-consenter can be a member of any Pastoral Church nor any man be a mans Pastor that doth not consent It 's reason then to speak for the Flocks Consenting Vote L. But they may be forced to consent M. I shall give you a reason against that anon L. Do you think the ignorant vulgar are fit to choose themselves a Pastor The most are usually the worst M. If the Church-men will make the uncapable rabble Communicants and then deny them Church-privileges because they are uncapable they condemn themselves for taking yea forcing in such uncapable men Even as the Bishops that Ordain Ministers that cannot Preach and then by their Canon forbid them to Preach 2. And yet I will say That never knew any places in City or Country that have oft had better Pastors for Learning and all Worth than where the Communicants were the choosers Yea even the ignorant usually have a gust that discerneth and valueth good and able men 3. And yet I speak not so high as for their Power of first Choice but only of Consent nor yet to choose who shall be a Minister but who shall be their Pastor The Bishop asketh not their consent at Ordination L. But you know that if there must three Consents go to it The Ordainers the Patrons and the Communicants they may never agree and frustrate all M. Humane faultiness puts inconveniences into all actions But we must not cure it with a worse If you would take no Physick till three Physicians agree it 's a less mischief than to give any man that can buy that Power a right to impose what ignorant fellow or enemy he will to be your sole Physician Three Locks and Keys in three hands to so great a Trust may be better than one in an untrusty hand Shall every Papist or Atheist choose me a Physician as fitter than I 2. But if they should never agree it is but every one stopping at his own part The Ordainers have done their part and the Patron hath chosen a Teacher for Auditors and a Pastor for such as will accept him and the People that trust him not may go to one that they can trust and this is better than worse L. But the Patron will prevail against them as long as he must nominate though the Bishop and People had a Negative Vote for if they refuse one he will still name another of his own complexion M. Uncurable evils I cannot help I can but wish that no Patron had ever built Churches or given Glebes at so dear a rate as thereby to buy from the Church its Privileges L. But can you think that the Bishops will ever abate Re-ordination of thsoe ordained by Presbyters M. I think not and therefore I have no hope of concord by their Concession But I know that former Bishops would have done it and the Church of England still owned such since the Reformation and God may send England such again and for such an age I write and not for this with any great hope And if you would not have the Land confounded with doubts whether they be Baptized or whether they had any valid Sacraments and whether the Papists or Protestants be the true Church c. it concerns you all to regard the decision of this Case L. But you speak only against Re-Ordaining those that are already Ordained and nothing for the time to come M. 1. You know it is hopeless to move for that 2. And it 's meet that Ordination should be well regulated 3. And when all the unjust impositions are removed as is here desired few moderate men will scruple Ordination L. VII Your 7th hath so much reason that I can say nothing against it but that I doubt the Bishops will never abate● their Ceremonies or any part of their Liturgy so far to endure any to disuse it though they meddle not against it M. I know what 's necessary and just but I know not what men will grant I am of your mind of those in possession except some few But if any man will make and keep up any instruments of division and hurt on
it unlawful to reproach all Churches that we see to be faulty but it is our duty to keep peace with all XXVIII VVe hold mental distant Communion in Faith and Love with many Churches that by imposing sin do deny us local Communion XXIX Though I here tell you once for all that I justifie not all that I can thus bear with yet we can submit by peaceable silence to many abuses in a Church which we dare not subscribe to and approve and use also passive Obedience where active is unlawful XXX VVe are not against God-Fathers and God-Mothers as used of old that is when the Parents are the Covenanters for their Child and their Death or Apostasie is feared for others to promise if they dye or apostatize to take care of the Child or for any Adopters or Owners to do it that take the Child as theirs XXXI VVe are so far from being against true confirmation as it is the taking persons that own their Baptismal Covenant solemnly into the number of adult Members and Communicants that we desire it and have written for it as a chief means of the true Reformation of all our Churches in the Land. XXXII VVe differ not in Faith or meer Doctrine from the Church of England as it 's in the Thirty Nine Articles but only in One new Article put into the new Liturgy of the Salvation of Baptized Infants as undoubtedly certain by the Word of God without any exception if they then dye XXXIII VVe are not against reading the profitable part of the Apocrypha as other Humane VVritings may be read sufficiently distinguished from the word of God. XXXIV VVe are for Corporal VVorship as a due expression of Spiritual And we are against all undecent expressions in Praying or Preaching and all undecent Habits Gestures or Actions XXXV VVe blame not the Liturgy for extending the words of Charity and Hope as far as there is any reasonable ground in Sacraments Absolution and Buryal XXXVI VVe are not for mens invading the Ministry unordained but believe that Senior Pastors or Bishops are ordinarily the regular Judges of the fitness of Candidates for the Ministry XXXVII VVe are not for unlimited Toleration But that the Rulers justly distinguish in Law and License 1. The approved whom they must own and maintain 2. The tolerable whom they must tolerate 3. The intollerable whom they must restrain from doing hurt XXXVIII VVe are for making true Religion as National and extensive as may be and for a National Church 1. As the associated Community of Churches in a Nation is so called 2. And as they are all accidentally united under one Christian Soveraign Though we abhor the casting out all that be not of our opinion and measure and that cannot submit to all that I here enumerate which I and others of my mind can submit to XXXIX VVe are so far from desiring to draw people from the Parish Churches into Conventicles that we would keep up the honour of them to the utmost of our power as knowing how greatly the countenance and maintenance of Rulers conduceth to the furtherance of Religion and that the publick Religion will be the common and National Religion and most will be there And if the Protestant Religion were reduced to Tolerated Conventicles Popery would possess its place and become National and soon withdraw even private Toleration as we see in France XL. VVe are not for Preaching when we are forbidden where there is not a real and evident need of our Labours XLI VVe believe not that the Scots Covenant or any other doth oblige us to Sedition Rebellion Schism or any sin nor doth disoblige us from any Obedience due to any Superior XLII VVe refuse not the Oxford Oath or any such because it is an obligation to obey our Rulers in Lawful things nor because it restraineth us from resisting Authority for we give as much to Humane Soveraignty and confess as much obedience due to them from Subjects 1. As any Text of Scripture speakes 2. Or any General Council save what they give to the Pope and his Vassals 3. Or as any Confessions that we know of of any Christian Churches agree in 4. Or which Lawyers Politicians and Historians Protestants Papists or Heathens agree in as far as we are acquainted XLIII VVe are not against the use of Synods or Councils nor against Princes using their advice for such Laws circa sacra as belong to them to make VVe believe Councils should be used as far as the common good and Communion of the Catholick Church requireth it though no Foreigners have Jurisdiction over us And we hold that if they agree of any thing conducible to the common good though their agreement be not a Law but a Contract yet the general command of keeping the Unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace obligeth all to hold such concord for the ends sake that have no special reason against it In these Forty three things we oppose not conformity L. And if yet after all this Agreement we must be destroyed by divisions the heavy Curse of God is on us and will surely fall on them that are the causes of it who ever they be CHAP. IV. A brief enumeration of the things imposed on us which is the matter of our Nonconformity M. DO you know what it is that we are required to conform to L. I know it is to use the Liturgies Ceremonies and submit to the Bishops as your Governours I know no more M. And yet dare you become our Judge If you are no more exact and just in matters of Law your Clients must pay for it Before I come to handle the particulars I will set together here the things required of us and how much of them we refuse I will tell you when I try them and give you our Reasons against them I. Whereas few of the Nonconforming Ministers were at Age and Ordained till Diocesans were put down in England and were Ordained by an Assembly of Senior Pastors which were then in possession of the Power and had many years the Approbation of the whole National Assembly of Divines at Westminster before they were admitted to any Incumbency none of these may now exercise their Ministry unless they be Re-ordained by Diocesans II. No man can be Ordained by them and admitted to any Cure that will not take the Oath of Canonical Obedience as they call it and in his Ordination Covenant to obey his Ordinary III. No man must Preach the Gospel by the authority of his Ordination and Office till moreover he have got a Licence from the Bishop to Preach and till he have got that Licence to Preach he may not take upon him to Expound in his own Cure OR ELSEWHERE ANY SCRIPTURE OR MATTER OR DOCTRINE but shall only study to read plainly and aptly without glossing or adding the Homilies already set forth or hereafter to be published by lawful Authority Can. 49. IV. No man may be Ordained or be a Licenced