justified all the Sects which have or shall separate from their Church Prefa p. 7. which N.O. speaks not of their justifying these Sects universally in whatever they hold or do or what being practised in the Church of England they take offence at but only of justifying the liberty they take in disceding in their Opinions as they see fit from the Doctrines and Principles of this Church so limited by N.O. both in the precedent and following words whilst these Late men also tell them that they may safely follow their own judgment at least as to all necessaries for their salvation wherein they cannot erre if using a sincere endeavour to understand the Holy Scripture which is in all such points clear In answer to this this Author from p. 180. c. to p. 186. undertakes to shew That there is a different case of the separation of Dissenters from the Church of England and of Her separation from the Church of Rome shewing several Reasons or Motives of the Church of Englands departing from the Roman Church which the sects being of the same opinion in them have not of departing from her But this thing is willingly granted him before-hand that differences herein he may shew many that no way concern N. O's discourse who chargeth him and others only with this that from their teaching that none do owe a submission of judgment to that of their Ecclesiastical Superiors every one may rightly collect that he may follow his own Or that if You may depart from your Superiours Persons or Councils upon a just cause of which cause you say it is all reason that you not your Superiours judge then so may They from you upon any cause also they think just Or that if there be no decisive Judge for differences between you and your Superiours to whose sentence you can be obliged so neither is there for differences between them and you and that as you appeal from your Ecclesiastical Superiours to Evidence of Scripture so seeming to you in your cause so may they from you in their's For I suppose here the Dr will both acknowledge 1 Some Councils to be superiour to a National one and some Ecclesiastical Persons to a Primate And 2 that these Ecclesiastical Superiours fallible when proceeding against Evidence of Scriptures may be therein relinquished And This is the thing wherein N.O. affirms you to countenance and warrant the proceedings of all these Sects § 88 1. Frist then to shew these Differences he saith p. 181. Here lies a very considerable difference that we appeal and are ready to stand to the judgment of the Primitive Church for interpreting the letter of Scripture in any difference between us and the Church of Rome but those who separate from our Church will allow nothing to be lawful but what hath an express command in Scripture To which I say That this difference supposed or granted here of which see more in the Annotations ‖ On p. 181. notwithstanding he will be found still to justify the Sectarists in their departure from the present Church of England as she did the present Church that was before Luther which as the Dr maintains she might do upon a just cause that is appearing so to Her from the evidence of the Scripture so say the Sectarists they may and do from her upon a just cause but I need not say the same Cause And as he holdeth that this Church owed no submission of judgment to the definitions of that Church's former Councils being fallible so neither say the Sects do they to the National Synods of this But if the judgment of such matters be removed from these latter to the Primitive times to Antiquity This as taken ad libitum in a several latitude is a Precedent all Parties pretend to and is a Judge the sense of whose sentence all parties may cispute as they do that of Scripture without matters coming hereby to any strict Decision Neither will the Presbyterians I believe abandon this Hold to the Dr and his Irenicum perhaps will help them to maintain it And for some such reason it may be that he here in comparing the Church of England and the Sects declines the direct Antithesis of their deserting or renouncing contrary to Her Owning or adhering to these Primitive Times As the ingenuous Reader may observe § 89 2ly P. 182. He saith The Guides of our Church never challenged any infallibility to themselves which those of the Church of Rome do He should have said Which the Catholick Church in her lawful General Councils doth Now from this may well be gathered that the Dissenters from the Church of England depart in their judgment from a pretended not infallible but fallible Church And I ask What advantage hence for confuting what is said by N. O Doth not this fallibility of the Church of England in her Doctrines confessed secure any to depart from them and her as they shall think fit without being justly for this called to an account by her And are not all Sects hereby justified in following the perswasion of their own judgment against hers as she also following hers against her Superiours because fallible He saith also there That the Church of England declares in her Articles that all the proof of things to be believed is to be taken from Holy Scripture She may declare so yet the Sectarists not therefore admit that all that Holy Scriptures are alledged-for by the Church of England is to be believed since these differ in the sense of several places of Scripture from this Church and so as to these may depart from her Judgment § 90 3ly He saith P. 183. That the Church of Rome makes the belief of her doctrines necessary to salvation But nothing of this nature can be objected against the Church of England by dissenters that excludes none from a possibility of salvation meerly because not in her Communion To this I say as I did to the last The lesson cessary the Church of England makes the belief of her Doctrines the more liberty still the Sects will think they have of dissenting from them But changing here the Dr's Roman of which N. O. said nothing into the Catholick Church headed by her General Councils she freely tells those who dare depart from her that there is no Salvation to those out of her Communion and that their Conscience mis-perswaded doth oblige indeed but not therefore excuse them And this causeth those who are careful of their salvation and believe her in this to secure themselves in her Communion § 91 4ly P. 184. He saith The Guides of the Roman Church pretend to an immediate authority of obliging the consciences of men i. e as I understand him affirm that their Subjects are obliged in conscience to yield an assent and submission of judgment to their definitions and decrees which is true changing Roman into Catholick But saith he ours challenge no more than Teaching men to do what Christ
Civil as Ecclesiastical Governours So that if the Catholicks seem to apply some Consciential obedience to the Ecclesiastical Judge disliked and denyed to him by Protestants so do they also to the Civil Ib. l. 10 They challenge likewise to themselves a power to dispense with the laws of God as in matter of Mariages The Church only dispenseth where antecedently no Divine Law but only a Church-law obligeth those about Marriages being many of them Levitical Judicial Laws obligatory only to the ancient Commonwealth of the Jews and not now to Christians But in impedimentis jure Divino naturali conjugium dirimentibus the Church pretends no dispensative power Ib. l. 8 And with the Institution of Christ as in Communion in one kind See this spoken to before in Note on p. 151. l. 6. Ib. l. 5 As in the five Sacraments they have added to the two of Christ As the Roman Church reckons Seven Sacraments so the Greek Sacramenta verò ritusque in hâc ipsâ Catholicâ rectè sentientium Christianorum Ecclesiâ sunt Septem saith Jeremias Patriarch of Constantinople against the Lutherans ‖ Resp. 1. c. 7. and so the Catholick Church before Luther appeared And this Author cannot be ignorant that Protestants also since that time as the Word Sacrament is taken in a more general sense have willingly admitted more than two and acknowledged this conformable to the language of Antiquity And in the short English Catechisme the Answer to the Question How many Sacraments Two only is made as Bishop Mountague observes ‖ Appeal c. 33. with this Limitation as generally necessary to salvation And on the other side the Council of Trent †Sess 7. c. 3. pronounces Anathema to those who shall make them all of an equal dignity And Baptisme and the Eucharist shall have the preeminency that Protestants desire Ib. l. 2 Setting aside these considerations we dare appeal c. For the extravagancy of the next page I referr the Reader to the Note on p. 180. l. 9. Pag. 185. l. 6. Whether our Church's Imposing of three Ceremonies declared to be indifferent by those who required them But denied to be so by those they are imposed-on who therefore complain of tyranny and of forcing the Conscience the enjoining the practice of them involving an assent also that they are lawful which they that cannot yield must sin if they practise them And in such a case who must decide this matter between these two I find him in his Irenicum c. 2. p. 63. nominating for this Judge the sense of the Primitive Church in the first four Centuries and the judgment of the other Reformed Churches There he proposeth That nothing be required nor determined by Church-Governours but what is sufficiently known to be indifferent in its own nature The only difficulty saith he is hâ—w a thing may be sufficiently known to be indifferent because one man looks upon that as indifferent which another doth not The most equal way to decide this Controversy is to make choice of such Judges as are not interested in the quarrel and those are the sense of the Primitive Church in the first four Centuries who were best able to judge whether they looked upon themselves as bound by any Command of Scripture or no and withal the judgment of the Reformed Churches So that what shal be made appear to be lefâ— indifferent by both the sense of the Primitive Church and the Churches of the Reformation may be a matter determinable by Law and which all may be required to conform in Obedience to But here 1st What if when this Judge the sense of the Primitive Church is admitted by both parties yet there happen dispute What or on which side this sense is Is it not so disputed and will not the deciding of this need another Judge 2ly For the Judgment of the Reformed Churches I suppose he means those abroad concerning the Controversies about Indifferents here in England they no way seem such as he here supposeth i.e. persons not interested in the quarrel some of them as to these things intertaining the opinion of the Prclaticks others of the Presbyterian party But were it not so their judgment being fallible It is contrary I think to this Author's Principles for others to be enjoined or constrained to conform to them either in their practice where their judgment relucts or in their judgment where their 's also may err 3ly The Judge in Ecclesiastical matters is not left to any ones arbitrary nomination but is alwaies the Superiour Prelates or Councils in respect of all others subordinate to them He goes on Can be thought so great a Burden to their Consciences as all the Load of superstitious fopperies in the Roman Church Supposing here not granting the Roman Ceremonies such yet some of which at least I hope this Author will protect because borrowed from her by the Reformed Church of England to the great grief of these Sects I ask to what end is it here to compare the Degrees of Burdens imposed where the Least if imposed against conscience is unsupportable Ib. l. 17. Whether Transubstantiation Image-worship c. be not somwhat harder things to swallow Some of these at least how hard soever they seem to you are the Definitions either of the Supreme Councils or those Superiour to a Provincial or National one of England And to these Councils therefore you owe obedience either of assent or silence and cannot separate from their Communion without Schisme Ib. l. 11 Be not somwhat harder things to swallow than the Church's power to appoint matters of Order and decency Is then the appointing matters of Order and Decency all the power the Church of England doth or may assume I mean hath this Church no power in Matters and Controversies of Faith Pag. 186. l. 1. Not for any difficulty objected by N.O. Which whatever it is is omitted here by the Dr. See Note on p. 180. l. 9. Annotations on §. 11. Of the means to attaine the sense of Scripture without an infallible Guide PAg. 186. l. 11. That is the second main Principle in N.O. that without this infallible assistance of the Guides of the Church there can be no certainty of the sense of Scripture There are no such words in N.O. N.O. denies a sufficient certainty of the sense of Scripture in several points of necessary saith ‖ See the former Discourse §. 2. but not in all especially as to some persons and capacities without the Church's exposition of them Ib. l. 17. He yields that the Church's infallibility is not necessary to the foundation of faith for mens faith he saith may begin at the infallible authority of Scriptures No such words are in N. O neither doth he call that a Foundation of Faith where Faith begins Which Faith begins at that particular Article thereof which is first taught to any by their Inâ—tructer Parents or Pastor and this happens to be somtimes one Article somtimes another N. O's
necessaries In the Declaration of both which they are always preserved from error by the super-intending of the Divine Providence and the assistance of the Holy Spirit And that supposing the sense of Scripture without recurrence to such Tradition be cleare enough to some yet that it is not so to all who therefore in their faith of such necessaries must depend on the authority direction infallibility of their Guides Unless our Author will say the Condition of all Christians is well capable of using all means possible Pag. 232. l. 5. The same course is taken by Epiphanius c. S. Hilary and S. Epiphanius it seems do endeavour to confute Hereticks out of the Seriptures What then Ib. l. 18. After the Guides of the Church had in the Council of Nice declared what was the Catholick faith yet still the controversy was managed about the sense of Scripture and no other ways made use of for finding it than such as we plead for at this day Was not the Decree of this Council after it held perpetually by the Catholicks urged against them And if not submitted to by them the more to blame the Hereticks of those days as now also the Proâ—estans after the 2d Nicene Laterane Florentine and Trent Councils who did not acquiesce in such a just authority as that of Nice and though I think Mr Chillingworth would not yet will not Dr St. as to the Nicene Council say the same with me These then though denying submission to Councils yet not to Holy Scriptures the Fathers did in those daies as Catholick Doctors do now out of Principles coneeded by them and common to both endeavour to convince them Ib. l. 4 That none of the Catholick Bishops should once suggest this admirable expedient of Infallibility Did not these Bishops continually press to them the consentient Tradition of the Churches and the Definition of the Council of Nice To what end this if it acknowledged by them fallible Might an Authority not infallible put their definitions in the Creed and so it remains to this day in the Dr's Creed upon that account Could it exact belief and anathematize all Dissenters and not profess itself Infallible Pag. 233. l. 7. When they so frequently in Councils contradicted each other See this great Friend of Councils Before ‖ p. 149. the charge was Ancient Church and Councils contradicting those of latter times but now it is grown higher to the Ancient contradicting Ancient without any qualification of Councils held by Hercticks contradicting Councils Catholick for then the sense had been lost But I hope our Adversary is not yet gone so far as to affirm any Council equal in authority with that of Nice contradicting it but if unequal that of Nice only will stand in force Ib. l. 13. If the sense of Scripture were in this time to be taken from the Guides of the Church what security could any man have against Arianism since the Councils which favoured it were more numerous than those which opposed and condemned it i.e. If the sense of the Scripture concerning 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were to be taken from the Guides of the Church met in the Council of Nice what security from thence could we have against Arianisme since the Arian Councils were more numerous than that of Nice and therefore more obligatory than it Doth not our Author here a litle too sar unmask himself Doth he hold then Christians to owe no obedience to the Definition of the Council of Nice against Arianisme Time was when he said ‖ Rat. Account p. 375. We profess to be guided by the sense of Scripture as interpreted by the unanimotes consent of the Fathers and the four first General Councils will he say here If these Councils interpret the Scriptures in the right sense i.e. in his And That the Church of England looks on it as her duty to keep to the Decrees of the four General Councils and so of Nice the first of them Then either the Arian Councils must not be more numerous as here he affirms they were or the more numerous I mean as to the persons present in it not always the more valid which is true But if we are now to defend the authority of the Council of Nice againâ—t the Dr. we muâ—t know that if he there speaks of the plurality of the Arian Councils they many and that of Nice only one this number is no prejudice to any one Council that is of greater authority if he speaks of the plurality of Bishops in some one Arian Council then though there were present in the Nicene Council not above four or five Bishops from all the West Yet that the whole West and all its Bishops accepted it which they never did any of the Arian Councils Therefore Athanasius ‖ Epist ad Episcop Affrican after those Arian Councils held speaks thus of that of Nice Huic certè concilio universus orbis assensum praebuit And Verbum illud Domini per Occumenicam Niceae Synodum in aeternum manet Sive enim quis numerum cum numero comparet tanto major est Nicena Synodus particularibus Conciliâ—s quantum totum sui aliqua parte And 2ly That had the Arian Bishops throughout the whole world at some time outnumbred the Catholick yet these after once pronounced Heretical by the lawful General Council of Nice were invalidated hereby whilst such from having any lawful Vote in a future Council the Catholick Clergy and Bishops remaining a distinct Body from them to whom and not to them the Christian world owed its obedience Ib. l. 9 S. Gregory Nazianzen ‖ Epist 55. declares he had not seen a good issue of any one of them c. He spake this of the many Arian Councils of his time ful of faction and ambition the chief leaders being great Favorites to Constantius an Heretical Emperor Or perhaps of some Council also held at Constantinople wherein he by such contention amongst the Bishops there suffered much but this he said exclusively doubtless both to the first General Council that of Nice Of which he saith ‖ Orat. in laud. Hiero. that Paâ—res nostri pinsque ille hominum mundus qui Nicaeam perrexerunt certis finibus ac verbis Divinitatis doctrinam circumscripserunt And †Orat. in laud. Athanas Sanctum Concilium Niceae habitum at que illum lectissimorum virorum numerum Spiritum Sanctum in unum coegisse and exclusively again to the 2d General Council that of Constantinople which he was a member of and subscribed What need I now trouble my self or the Reader with vindicating Bellarmine on this matter Meanwhile would not the Dr here have his Reader believe that this Father had a mean esteem of the first and second General Councils Pag. 234. l. 7 S. Augustine ‖ Cont. Maximin l. 3. c. 14. in dealing with Maximin as the Arian expresly sets aside all authority of the Guides of the Church as to the sense of Scripture