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england_n abandon_v church_n life_n 22 3 3.9460 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A01736 A short treatise against the Donatists of England, whome we call Brownists Wherein, by the answeres vnto certayne writings of theyrs, diuers of their heresies are noted, with sundry fantasticall opinions. By George Giffard, Minister of Gods holy Word in Maldon. Gifford, George, d. 1620. 1590 (1590) STC 11869; ESTC S114289 90,151 124

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whereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o the_o universal_a church_n can_v right_o cut_v off_o and_o utter_o abandon_v any_o particular_a assembly_n unless_o it_o be_v for_o error_n &_o abuse_n which_o overthrow_n the_o faith_n &_o destroy_v true_a christianity_n the_o precept_n of_o s._n paul_n in_o that_o whereunto_o we_o be_v come_v let_v we_o proceed_v by_o one_o rule_n to_o be_v like_o mind_a phi._n 3._o be_v here_o to_o take_v place_n i_o will_v now_o proceed_v more_o particular_o the_o church_n of_o england_n even_o as_o it_o general_o stand_v in_o the_o public_a assembly_n among_o all_o godly_a church_n which_o know_v the_o faith_n which_o she_o do_v open_o profess_v and_o maintain_v have_v the_o place_n &_o dignity_n of_o a_o sister_n they_o all_o give_v unto_o she_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o fellowship_n acknowledge_v she_o for_o a_o mother_n in_o israel_n in_o as_o much_o as_o she_o have_v not_o be_v barren_a but_o have_v bring_v forth_o many_o dear_a child_n to_o god_n and_o not_o a_o few_o of_o they_o crown_v with_o martyrdom_n behold_v then_o the_o inordinate_a deal_n and_o arrogant_a presumption_n of_o you_o brownist_n yea_o behold_v even_o the_o top_n of_o your_o pride_n against_o god_n and_o man_n which_o profess_v to_o set_v up_o discipline_n and_o glory_v that_o you_o suffer_v for_o it_o do_v break_v and_o utter_o abolish_v the_o rule_n thereof_o give_v by_o christ_n by_o your_o utter_a forsake_v and_o abandon_v all_o the_o assembly_n in_o england_n for_o let_v it_o be_v confess_v that_o the_o error_n the_o sin_n the_o imperfection_n the_o spot_n and_o deformity_n of_o our_o church_n be_v many_o so_o that_o she_o be_v not_o in_o her_o general_a estate_n so_o fair_a as_o the_o fair_a of_o her_o sister_n yet_o have_v she_o heretofore_o have_v and_o now_o have_v many_o noble_a child_n richlye_o adorn_v with_o heavenly_a jewel_n and_o precious_a gift_n of_o learning_n knowledge_n faith_n and_o godliness_n and_o howsoever_o the_o papist_n one_o way_n and_o 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general_o stand_v in_o england_n and_o come_v after_o unto_o those_o former_a article_n which_o contain_v your_o association_n wherein_o you_o conjoin_v yourselves_o and_o enter_v into_o covenant_n with_o god_n as_o you_o say_v to_o set_v up_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n for_o i_o take_v this_o to_o be_v the_o fit_a order_n be_v syxt_v article_n which_o now_o must_v be_v first_o be_v express_v in_o these_o word_n and_o now_o that_o our_o forsake_v and_o utter_a abandon_v these_o disorder_a assembly_n as_o they_o general_o stand_v in_o england_n may_v not_o seem_v strange_a or_o offensive_a to_o any_o man_n that_o will_v judge_v or_o be_v judge_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n we_o allege_v and_o affirm_v they_o heinouslie_o faulty_a and_o wilful_o obstinate_a in_o these_o four_o principal_a transgression_n to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o elias_n do_v see_v outward_a idolatry_n practise_v and_o see_v none_o which_o do_v mislike_v and_o therefore_o complain_v of_o all_o it_o be_v a_o error_n but_o whereas_o god_n word_n be_v embrace_v and_o multitude_n abhor_v idolatry_n and_o labour_n with_o sorrowful_a tear_n to_o be_v purge_v from_o their_o sin_n it_o be_v a_o intolerable_a pride_n and_o presumption_n of_o man_n to_o set_v themselves_o in_o god_n judgement_n seat_n and_o to_o condemn_v all_o of_o wilful_a obstinacy_n let_v it_o be_v show_v where_o ever_o any_o lead_v by_o god_n spirit_n have_v deal_v in_o this_o sort_n and_o especial_o in_o charge_v they_o most_o false_o as_o shall_v appear_v the_o brownist_n here_o you_o very_o vehement_o charge_v we_o with_o untollerable_a pride_n presumption_n and_o intrusion_n into_o god_n judgement_n seat_n to_o be_v void_a of_o god_n spirit_n to_o charge_n and_o condemn_v you_o most_o false_o as_o you_o say_v shall_v appear_v how_o just_o you_o charge_v we_o with_o these_o crime_n or_o discharge_v yourself_o and_o your_o assembly_n of_o these_o present_a transgession_n upon_o the_o scan_v of_o your_o answer_n shall_v appear_v etc._n etc._n g._n g._n all_o such_o as_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o judge_v and_o condemn_v whole_a assembly_n that_o profess_v the_o gospel_n and_o that_o with_o slanderous_a accusation_n as_o you_o do_v may_v right_v well_o be_v charge_v with_o intolerable_a pride_n presumption_n and_o intrusion_n into_o god_n judgement_n seat_n see_v the_o scripture_n do_v clear_o warrant_v it_o for_o he_o that_o judge_v one_o man_n to_o be_v no_o true_a christian_n which_o hold_v the_o place_n of_o a_o brother_n and_o labour_v to_o please_v god_n profess_v the_o faith_n sound_o in_o all_o fundamental_a point_n either_o for_o some_o error_n in_o judgement_n or_o frailty_n commit_v in_o life_n proudlye_o advance_v himself_o into_o god_n office_n who_o alone_o search_v the_o heart_n and_o tri_v the_o reins_n of_o the_o child_n of_o man_n what_o shall_v we_o say_v then_o of_o those_o which_o condemn_v whole_a multitude_n among_o who_o there_o be_v many_o unspotted_a with_o gross_a error_n and_o offence_n but_o the_o ground_n of_o your_o do_n be_v from_o hence_o that_o such_o as_o commit_v principal_a transgression_n and_o be_v wilfullye_o obstinate_a in_o the_o same_o the_o word_n of_o god_n do_v condemn_v they_o and_o then_o you_o say_v that_o the_o assembly_n in_o england_n be_v heinous_o faulty_a and_o wilful_o obstinate_a in_o four_o principal_a transgression_n you_o bold_o allege_v and_o affirm_v but_o you_o make_v proof_n neither_o of_o the_o transgression_n nor_o of_o the_o wilful_a obstinacy_n touch_v the_o transgression_n what_o mean_v you_o by_o principal_a if_o you_o understand_v great_a fault_n and_o gross_a error_n and_o hold_v withal_o that_o there_o be_v no_o faith_n nor_o regeneration_n among_o those_o which_o err_v gross_o &_o commit_v great_a fault_n you_o maintain_v heresy_n which_o be_v convince_v by_o infinite_a place_n and_o example_n of_o the_o scripture_n the_o best_a that_o ever_o be_v do_v know_v but_o in_o part_n 1._o cor._n 13._o the_o godly_a be_v regenerate_v but_o in_o part_n rom._n 7._o of_o the_o strong_a it_o be_v say_v who_o can_v tell_v his_o error_n psal_n 19_o and_o in_o many_o thing_n we_o sin_v all_o jam._n 3._o if_o noah_n abraham_n lot_n david_n solomon_n samson_n and_o other_o holy_a man_n great_o replenish_v with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o with_o faith_n do_v sometime_o fall_v into_o great_a sin_n how_o many_o will_v be_v the_o error_n the_o division_n the_o frailty_n and_o offence_n among_o the_o multitude_n in_o the_o church_n where_o with_o the_o strong_a and_o such_o as_o have_v the_o great_a knowledge_n and_o godliness_n there_o be_v heap_v up_o together_o multitude_n of_o weak_a and_o such_o as_o be_v carnal_a and_o but_o babe_n in_o christ_n beside_o hypocrite_n and_o countersait_fw-fr brethren_n if_o by_o principal_a transgression_n you_o mean_v only_o such_o as_o be_v fundamental_a than_o you_o do_v most_o false_o accuse_v the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o hold_v not_o any_o heresy_n or_o blasphemy_n against_o any_o one_o ground_n or_o principle_n of_o the_o holy_a christian_a faith_n the_o must_v then_o either_o maintain_v this_o heresy_n which_o be_v that_o where_o the_o true_a faith_n be_v there_o can_v break_v forth_o no_o great_a fault_n error_n and_o abuse_n or_o this_o absurd_a manner_n of_o speech_n which_o afterward_o you_o use_v that_o all_o error_n and_o deformity_n in_o religion_n be_v heresy_n blasphemy_n and_o abomination_n or_o else_o confess_v that_o with_o intolerable_a pride_n presumption_n and_o intrusion_n into_o god_n judgement_n seat_n you_o have_v take_v upon_o you_o to_o judge_v and_o condemn_v whole_a assembly_n which_o profess_v the_o faith_n of_o christ_n sincere_o in_o all_o fundamental_a point_n among_o who_o there_o be_v many_o particular_a person_n which_o study_v earnest_o to_o please_v god_n mourn_v for_o their_o own_o sin_n and_o be_v like_o just_a lot_n 2._o pet._n ●_o vex_v and_o torment_v to_o behold_v the_o wickedness_n of_o other_o and_o now_o touch_v wilful_a obstinacy_n how_o will_v you_o prove_v that_o to_o be_v in_o all_o the_o assembly_n and_o in_o all_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n of_o england_n if_o you_o say_v there_o be_v apparent_a transgression_n in_o which_o they_o continue_v and_o therefore_o they_o be_v wilful_o obstinate_a and_o so_o to_o be_v utter_o abandon_v i_o answer_v that_o your_o conclusion_n do_v not_o follow_v because_o the_o continuance_n in_o all_o sort_n of_o error_n and_o offence_n in_o such_o as_o profess_v the_o faith_n do_v not_o warrant_v man_n utter_o to_o cast_v they_o out_o as_o heathen_a but_o where_o after_o admonition_n and_o conviction_n the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n be_v despise_v the_o rule_n of_o discipline_n give_v by_o our_o saviour_n christ_n make_v this_o very_a clear_a if_o thy_o brother_n sin_n against_o thou_o tell_v he_o of_o it_o between_o he_o and_o thou_o alone_o if_o he_o hear_v thou_o thou_o have_v win_v thy_o brother_n if_o he_o hear_v thou_o not_o take_v one_o or_o two_o with_o thou_o that_o by_o the_o mouth_n of_o two_o or_o three_o witness_n every_o word_n may_v be_v confirm_v if_o he_o hear_v not_o they_o tell_v it_o to_o the_o church_n if_o he_o hear_v not_o the_o church_n let_v he_o be_v as_o a_o heathen_a or_o as_o a_o publican_n math._n 18._o we_o see_v that_o private_a member_n may_v not_o utter_o abandon_v and_o cast_v forth_o any_o one_o brother_n that_o be_v one_o which_o profess_v the_o true_a faith_n and_o for_o his_o profession_n have_v the_o place_n and_o dignity_n of_o a_o christian_a nor_o judge_v he_o so_o wilful_o obstinate_a that_o he_o must_v be_v account_v as_o a_o heathen_a until_o the_o church_n have_v so_o judge_v and_o cast_v he_o forth_o the_o same_o orderly_a course_n and_o rule_v of_o discipline_n be_v to_o be_v observe_v in_o admonish_v accuse_v convince_a condemn_a and_o utter_v abandon_v any_o particular_a assembly_n which_o have_v the_o dignity_n of_o a_o christian_a church_n and_o do_v offend_v so_o gréevous_o and_o show_v such_o obstinacy_n that_o it_o deserve_v so_o heavy_a a_o censure_n in_o a_o particular_a church_n there_o be_v error_n and_o sin_n i_o will_v not_o say_v in_o many_o but_o in_o all_o in_o as_o much_o as_o every_o one_o have_v his_o blindness_n and_o corruption_n err_v and_o sin_v continual_o one_o way_n or_o other_o from_o hence_o it_o come_v that_o of_o necessity_n there_o be_v always_o in_o the_o church_n diversity_n of_o opinion_n discord_n division_n and_o dissension_n with_o many_o corruption_n and_o abuse_n for_o if_o it_o be_v most_o manifest_a that_o the_o learnede_a and_o godly_a that_o live_v do_v carry_v with_o he_o his_o error_n defect_n and_o corruption_n what_o shall_v we_o look_v for_o where_o the_o multitude_n be_v of_o learned_a unlearned_a strong_a and_o weak_a altogether_o how_o innumerable_a will_v the_o frailty_n and_o corruption_n now_o among_o all_o be_v
and_o instruct_v to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n as_o to_o be_v like_o householder_n that_o bring_v out_o of_o their_o treasure_n thing_n new_a and_o old_a we_o desire_v to_o call_v man_n that_o wander_v in_o ignorance_n and_o sin_n unto_o the_o light_n and_o so_o to_o build_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n we_o know_v no_o man_n be_v to_o be_v judge_n of_o his_o own_o sufficiency_n nor_o to_o intrude_v himself_o into_o public_a office_n but_o to_o be_v try_v and_o ordain_v by_o the_o church_n which_o have_v that_o power_n commit_v into_o her_o hand_n from_o christ_n the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o church_n of_o england_n have_v commit_v this_o trust_n unto_o the_o bishop_n judge_v it_o the_o quiet_a and_o safe_a way_n we_o be_v present_v unto_o they_o to_o be_v examine_v and_o try_v to_o be_v ordain_v and_o put_v into_o possession_n of_o our_o ministry_n by_o they_o and_o from_o they_o to_o receyve_v the_o power_n to_o execute_v the_o same_o not_o as_o they_o but_o the_o church_n which_o have_v put_v it_o into_o their_o hand_n it_o be_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o not_o the_o device_n of_o antichrist_n that_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n shall_v be_v try_v and_o ordain_v by_o elder_n pastor_n and_o governor_n and_o set_v over_o his_o people_n we_o receyve_v only_o this_o ordinance_n and_o such_o as_o have_v any_o understanding_n may_v see_v that_o the_o question_n can_v not_o be_v whether_o the_o power_n itself_o be_v from_o antichrist_n but_o whether_o there_o be_v not_o error_n and_o defect_n in_o administer_a the_o same_o to_o the_o hurt_n and_o damage_n of_o the_o church_n now_o further_o have_v receyve_v this_o authority_n we_o preach_v the_o holy_a gospel_n of_o jesus_n christ_n and_o by_o the_o pure_a doctrine_n of_o the_o same_o we_o convince_v and_o overthrow_v idolatry_n superstition_n and_o heresy_n we_o correct_v and_o reproove_v all_o manner_n of_o vice_n inform_v and_o exhort_v unto_o true_a godliness_n in_o perform_v these_o thing_n we_o draw_v man_n out_o of_o popery_n by_o let_v they_o understand_v that_o the_o worship_n of_o popery_n be_v the_o very_a worship_n of_o devil_n and_o that_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n this_o roman_a antichrist_n and_o his_o adherent_n do_v feel_v that_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o england_n do_v destroy_v his_o kingdom_n and_o therefore_o stir_v up_o by_o the_o devil_n they_o rage_n and_o by_o all_o devilish_a mean_n seek_v to_o destroy_v our_o noble_a queen_n and_o country_n except_o therefore_o you_o brownist_n have_v even_o let_v loose_v all_o the_o reins_n of_o your_o tongue_n and_o after_o a_o shameless_a manner_n to_o lie_v and_o slander_n how_o can_v you_o pronounce_v that_o the_o ministry_n of_o england_n be_v antichristian_a and_o of_o the_o devil_n or_o that_o it_o be_v in_o the_o life_n and_o power_n of_o the_o beast_n to_o live_v to_o reign_v to_o stand_v to_o fall_v together_o with_o he_o as_o the_o branch_n with_o the_o tree_n in_o the_o next_o place_n you_o have_v whet_v &_o file_v your_o canker_a tongue_n to_o utter_v very_o vile_a reproach_n against_o the_o nursery_n of_o all_o good_a learning_n and_o holy_a religion_n within_o this_o land_n the_o two_o university_n i_o know_v not_o how_o idle_o and_o in_o what_o heathen_a vanity_n you_o spend_v your_o time_n there_o yourselves_o but_o this_o i_o dare_v avow_v and_o make_v the_o challenge_n and_o let_v trial_n be_v make_v i_o will_v bear_v the_o shame_n for_o ever_o if_o it_o be_v not_o find_v true_a that_o there_o be_v many_o in_o the_o university_n and_o not_o above_o the_o degree_n of_o bachelor_n of_o art_n unto_o who_o the_o principal_a master_n of_o brownisme_n be_v inferior_a if_o we_o respect_v either_o the_o liberal_a art_n or_o the_o knowledge_n of_o tongue_n as_o of_o hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a or_o a_o sound_a judgement_n in_o divinity_n if_o this_o can_v be_v attain_v in_o few_o year_n with_o more_o than_o moonkish_a idleness_n the_o brownist_n may_v in_o some_o 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and_o reproach_n you_o roll_v away_o you_o wrap_v up_o altogether_o for_o the_o offence_n of_o some_o the_o reckon_v up_o certain_a thing_n of_o circumstance_n and_o in_o themselves_o indifferent_a and_o yet_o upon_o your_o credit_n we_o must_v take_v they_o to_o be_v odious_a enormity_n you_o be_v up_o with_o perfidi_fw-la tyranny_n and_o the_o statute_n of_o omry_n your_o frenzy_n be_v great_a i_o do_v advise_v that_o man_n will_v suspend_v their_o judgement_n and_o inquire_v of_o the_o church_n touch_v the_o ministry_n of_o england_n against_o this_o you_o cry_v out_o and_o ask_v if_o it_o be_v the_o best_a counsel_n i_o can_v give_v they_o i_o answer_v it_o be_v the_o best_a be_v that_o which_o god_n have_v ordain_v have_v you_o not_o read_v that_o the_o priest_n lip_n shall_v keep_v knowledge_n man_n shall_v inquire_v at_o his_o mouth_n for_o he_o be_v the_o angel_n of_o the_o lord_n of_o host_n by_o this_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o whensoever_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n do_v raise_v doubt_n it_o be_v god_n will_n that_o the_o people_n shall_v inquire_v for_o resolution_n out_o of_o the_o word_n at_o their_o mouth_n who_o he_o have_v raise_v up_o and_o set_v as_o the_o great_a light_n in_o his_o church_n yet_o see_v how_o sottish_o you_o cavil_v against_o this_o the_o take_v it_o i_o will_v have_v they_o do_v thing_n which_o they_o doubt_v off_o and_o my_o word_n be_v but_o to_o have_v they_o suspend_v their_o judgement_n until_o they_o inquire_v and_o not_o to_o be_v too_o rash_a in_o follow_v the_o call_v of_o blind_a presumptuous_a and_o heretical_a schismatics_n then_o you_o say_v i_o send_v they_o over_o the_o sea_n we_o wot_v not_o whither_o etc._n etc._n they_o make_v doubt_n of_o we_o we_o be_v the_o man_n who_o ministry_n be_v in_o question_n we_o send_v they_o therefore_o unto_o those_o of_o who_o they_o can_v have_v no_o doubt_n and_o that_o be_v to_o the_o worthy_a instrument_n and_o servant_n of_o god_n the_o pastor_n of_o other_o church_n i_o do_v not_o not_o send_v they_o over_o the_o sea_n for_o there_o be_v diverse_a godly_a church_n of_o stranger_n within_o the_o land_n as_o the_o french_a the_o dutch_a the_o italian_a there_o be_v the_o church_n of_o scotland_n and_o no_o sea_n to_o pass_v nor_o diversity_n of_o language_n so_o great_a as_o to_o hinder_v we_o have_v also_o the_o writing_n of_o all_o the_o worthy_a the_o say_v i_o send_v they_o unto_o the_o word_n of_o man_n which_o be_v false_a for_o i_o do_v send_v they_o unto_o the_o learned_a pastor_n to_o be_v resolve_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n these_o have_v the_o call_n unto_o this_o office_n from_o god_n and_o his_o blessing_n upon_o those_o which_o seek_v it_o with_o humility_n and_o reverence_n it_o be_v not_o to_o use_v old_a popish_a wear_v argument_n but_o you_o be_v the_o course_n of_o all_o arrogant_a proud_a heretic_n &_o schismatics_n which_o covet_v to_o draw_v the_o people_n to_o depend_v upon_o they_o that_o they_o may_v have_v fame_n &_o to_o forsake_v their_o pastor_n which_o take_v it_o gréevous_o that_o they_o shall_v seek_v resolution_n any_o where_o but_o at_o their_o hand_n whether_o shall_v we_o judge_v the_o godly_a learned_a minister_n of_o the_o church_n above_o name_v which_o have_v their_o call_n from_o god_n or_o the_o unlearned_a &_o rash_a brownist_n intrude_a themselves_o without_o call_v and_o run_v before_o they_o be_v send_v fit_a to_o inquire_v at_o for_o resolution_n it_o be_v a_o pretty_a thing_n to_o hear_v the_o harlot_n in_o the_o stew_n even_o in_o good_a earnest_n to_o boast_v and_o glory_n of_o their_o chastity_n who_o be_v more_o fierce_a and_o outrageous_a more_o uncharitable_a in_o condemn_v than_o you_o brownist_n and_o yet_o you_o brag_v of_o such_o patience_n and_o charity_n as_o can_v be_v
you_o be_v far_o wide_a for_o let_v it_o be_v that_o their_o next_o parent_n before_o have_v be_v hypocrite_n and_o unfaithful_a yet_o may_v they_o be_v the_o seed_n of_o the_o faithful_a for_o their_o interest_n in_o god_n covenant_n do_v as_o be_v the_o seed_n of_o the_o faithful_a not_o depend_v upon_o their_o next_o parent_n but_o upon_o the_o ancient_a christian_n their_o forefather_n for_o when_o he_o say_v i_o will_v be_v thy_o god_n and_o the_o god_n of_o thy_o seed_n the_o promise_n be_v make_v to_o a_o thousand_o generation_n exod._n 20._o it_o be_v say_v that_o levy_n pay_v tithe_n unto_o melchisedech_n because_o he_o be_v in_o the_o loin_n of_o abraham_n when_o he_o meet_v melchisedech_n and_o give_v tithe_n hebrew_n 7._o ver_fw-la 9_o 10._o abraham_n beget_v isaake_n isaake_n beget_v jaakob_n and_o jaakob_n beget_v levy_v and_o yet_o of_o levy_v it_o be_v say_v that_o he_o be_v in_o the_o loin_n of_o abraham_n yea_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v confess_v that_o all_o the_o whole_a nation_n of_o the_o jew_n be_v in_o the_o loin_n of_o abraham_n our_o saviour_n christ_n according_a to_o the_o flesh_n be_v in_o the_o loin_n of_o abraham_n for_o this_o cause_n saint_n peter_n call_v all_o the_o jew_n the_o child_n of_o the_o prophet_n and_o of_o the_o covenant_n acts._n 3_o ver_fw-la 25._o so_o do_v s._n paul_n rom._n 9_o and_o in_o that_o respect_n they_o be_v all_o call_v holy_a rom._n 11._o if_o the_o first_o fruit_n be_v holy_a so_o be_v the_o lump_n if_o the_o root_n be_v holy_a so_o be_v the_o bough_n abraham_n isaak_n and_o jaakob_n be_v the_o first_o fruit_n and_o the_o root_n all_o the_o israelite_n the_o lump_n and_o the_o bough_n but_o be_v they_o all_o faithful_a no_o nor_o yet_o the_o great_a part_n for_o esayas_n cry_v that_o if_o the_o number_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n be_v as_o the_o sand_n of_o the_o sea_n yet_o but_o a_o remnant_n shall_v be_v save_v esay_n 10._o how_o often_o do_v the_o lord_n complain_v every_o where_n of_o the_o grievous_a infidelity_n and_o rebellion_n in_o the_o great_a part_n of_o that_o nation_n why_o then_o be_v they_o call_v holy_a and_o the_o holy_a people_n be_v many_o of_o they_o reprobate_n be_v it_o not_o because_o they_o be_v abraham_n seed_n and_o be_v in_o the_o church_n by_o outward_a profession_n add_v this_o withal_o that_o the_o elect_v of_o god_n even_o the_o right_n holy_a seed_n be_v in_o their_o loin_n for_o god_n choose_v do_v not_o spring_v only_o from_o the_o sanctify_v but_o also_o from_o other_o who_o touch_v the_o outward_a profession_n and_o touch_v the_o holy_a seed_n which_o be_v in_o their_o loin_n be_v esteem_v as_o member_n in_o the_o church_n and_o be_v all_o of_o they_o even_o the_o whole_a nation_n call_v the_o holy_a people_n it_o be_v not_o disalow_v that_o in_o the_o time_n of_o idolatry_n open_o maintain_v their_o child_n be_v circumcise_v nay_o further_o the_o lord_n call_v the_o child_n of_o those_o wicked_a idolater_n his_o child_n thou_o have_v say_v he_o by_o ezechiel_n take_v thy_o son_n and_o thy_o daughter_n which_o thou_o bring_v forth_o unto_o i_o and_o sacrifice_v unto_o they_o to_o be_v consume_v thou_o have_v slay_v my_o son_n and_o give_v they_o by_o cause_v they_o to_o pass_v through_o to_o they_o ezech._n 16._o ver_fw-la 21._o these_o idolater_n do_v offer_v their_o child_n to_o devil_n even_o to_o the_o idol_n of_o canaan_n and_o shed_v innocent_a blood_n even_o the_o blood_n of_o their_o son_n and_o daughter_n when_o they_o cause_v they_o to_o pass_v through_o the_o fire_n psal_n 106._o if_o the_o promise_n to_o abraham_n and_o his_o seed_n have_v not_o be_v so_o effectual_a as_o that_o the_o holy_a choose_a seed_n be_v in_o the_o loin_n of_o these_o idolater_n how_o can_v they_o be_v say_v to_o bring_v forth_o son_n &_o daughter_n to_o the_o lord_n how_o can_v it_o be_v say_v thou_o have_v slay_v my_o son_n or_o how_o can_v they_o right_o have_v be_v circumcise_v if_o you_o say_v these_o idolater_n shall_v not_o have_v remain_v in_o the_o church_n but_o if_o not_o by_o the_o civil_a power_n put_v to_o death_n yet_o by_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n cast_v forth_o yea_o but_o there_o be_v so_o general_a a_o decline_a that_o neither_o of_o these_o be_v perform_v and_o so_o they_o remain_v still_o in_o the_o church_n and_o bring_v forth_o child_n unto_o god_n even_o such_o as_o the_o covenant_n make_v with_o abraham_n do_v belong_v unto_o they_o be_v in_o his_o loin_n they_o be_v his_o seed_n and_o not_o cut_v off_o by_o the_o wickedness_n of_o their_o next_o parent_n if_o you_o object_v that_o the_o jew_n now_o at_o this_o day_n be_v the_o seed_n of_o abraham_n and_o by_o that_o reason_n shall_v be_v still_o the_o visible_a church_n i_o answer_v that_o although_o there_o be_v god_n elect_v among_o they_o who_o either_o he_o take_v away_o in_o their_o infancy_n or_o else_o call_v they_o to_o know_v christ_n when_o they_o come_v to_o man_n estate_n yet_o the_o jew_n can_v not_o now_o be_v call_v the_o visible_a church_n nor_o the_o church_n in_o as_o much_o as_o they_o have_v reject_v he_o in_o who_o the_o covenant_n be_v ratify_v even_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n and_o therefore_o he_o say_v unto_o they_o the_o vineyard_n shall_v be_v take_v from_o those_o husbandman_n and_o let_v forth_o unto_o other_o and_o then_o expound_v himself_o he_o say_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v take_v from_o you_o and_o give_v to_o a_o nation_n that_o will_v bring_v forth_o the_o fruit_n thereof_o the_o vineyard_n be_v not_o take_v from_o those_o naughty_a husbandman_n that_o kill_v the_o servant_n of_o the_o lord_n of_o the_o vineyard_n which_o come_v for_o fruit_n even_o the_o prophet_n until_o they_o have_v kill_v the_o son_n and_o heir_n himself_o now_o the_o natural_a branch_n be_v break_v off_o and_o the_o wild_a olive_n even_o the_o gentile_n be_v graff_v in_o rom._n 11._o they_o be_v now_o the_o child_n of_o abraham_n and_o heir_n of_o the_o promise_n as_o it_o be_v say_v i_o have_v make_v thou_o a_o father_n of_o many_o nation_n and_o in_o thy_o seed_n all_o nation_n of_o the_o earth_n shall_v be_v bless_v our_o forefather_n many_o of_o they_o decline_v in_o the_o apostasy_n and_o worship_v idol_n but_o as_o the_o idolatrous_a jew_n so_o they_o remain_v still_o in_o the_o church_n and_o bring_v forth_o child_n to_o god_n that_o be_v such_o as_o be_v within_o the_o covenant_n to_o be_v account_v the_o holy_a seed_n and_o so_o of_o right_n be_v to_o have_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n set_v upon_o they_o even_o baptism_n we_o can_v not_o say_v therefore_o that_o the_o covenant_n be_v disannul_v and_o that_o the_o church_n utterlie_o fail_v no_o not_o even_o in_o the_o most_o horrible_a confusion_n of_o popery_n but_o antichrist_n do_v sit_v in_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n 2._o thes_n 2_o those_o idolater_n be_v in_o the_o church_n and_o the_o heir_n of_o promise_n in_o their_o loin_n for_o we_o and_o all_o the_o church_n be_v spring_v out_o of_o they_o seal_v with_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o covenant_n as_o of_o right_a belong_v unto_o we_o from_o our_o holy_a ancestor_n but_o you_o brownist_n as_o catabaptist_n deny_v that_o we_o have_v the_o sign_n of_o the_o covenant_n for_o you_o say_v we_o have_v no_o sacrament_n if_o we_o be_v not_o within_o the_o covenant_n from_o our_o ancestor_n what_o be_v you_o who_o have_v be_v send_v from_o god_n to_o call_v you_o unto_o a_o covenant_n which_o you_o be_v not_o within_o before_o who_o have_v give_v you_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o covenant_n or_o have_v you_o receive_v a_o covenant_n without_o a_o sign_n how_o will_v you_o endure_v this_o terrible_a voice_n of_o almighty_a god_n you_o have_v root_v uppe_o and_o cast_v forth_o my_o son_n and_o my_o daughter_n for_o if_o it_o be_v say_v to_o idolator_n you_o have_v slay_v my_o son_n how_o much_o more_o unto_o you_o which_o in_o a_o most_o proud_a fury_n with_o intolerable_a boldness_n and_o cruelty_n root_n up_o and_o cast_v forth_o the_o infant_n of_o whole_a assembly_n which_o have_v renounce_v idolatry_n and_o profess_v the_o gospel_n because_o you_o do_v account_v they_o profane_v let_v it_o be_v they_o be_v many_o of_o they_o nothing_o such_o as_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v but_o sinner_n and_o such_o as_o shall_v by_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n be_v bring_v into_o better_a order_n yet_o profess_v christ_n and_o remain_v in_o the_o church_n their_o infant_n be_v not_o by_o their_o ungodliness_n cast_v forth_o of_o the_o covenant_n i_o conclude_v therefore_o that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n or_o at_o the_o least_o many_o of_o the_o teacher_n and_o guide_n
do_v offend_v in_o not_o execute_v the_o discipline_n upon_o ungodly_a man_n to_o bring_v they_o to_o repentance_n but_o in_o receive_v their_o child_n to_o be_v baptize_v they_o do_v not_o offend_v so_o they_o see_v they_o teach_v in_o the_o faith_n and_o to_o live_v a_o godly_a life_n as_o our_o church_n have_v establish_v yea_o in_o refuse_v they_o the_o infant_n shall_v receive_v great_a injury_n but_o to_o make_v this_o matter_n yet_o more_o clear_a the_o question_n be_v to_o be_v answer_v whether_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n for_o the_o brownist_n do_v hold_v that_o our_o ancestor_n be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o time_n of_o popery_n and_o that_o we_o now_o be_v confuse_v multitude_n not_o right_o enter_v into_o covenant_n with_o god_n to_o become_v a_o church_n see_v we_o be_v not_o of_o god_n true_a church_n before_o neither_o orderly_o enter_v into_o covenant_n indeed_o if_o we_o be_v not_o within_o the_o covenant_n 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to_o the_o question_n if_o by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n we_o understand_v the_o pope_n his_o law_n his_o worship_n which_o have_v be_v devise_v by_o himself_o his_o adherent_n and_o all_o that_o worship_v he_o or_o receive_v his_o mark_n i_o answer_v that_o this_o be_v that_o which_o may_v proper_o be_v call_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o be_v the_o papacy_n the_o apostasy_n and_o seduce_v to_o damnation_n and_o not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n otherwise_o then_o thus_o that_o the_o pope_n the_o cardinal_n and_o all_o that_o worship_v the_o beast_n be_v false_a christian_n by_o profession_n breed_v in_o the_o church_n and_o continue_v in_o it_o their_o seed_n not_o exclude_v from_o the_o covenant_n but_o if_o by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n we_o understand_v all_o those_o company_n of_o people_n over_o who_o the_o tyranny_n of_o the_o pope_n have_v heretofore_o extend_v itself_o or_o do_v at_o this_o day_n or_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v give_v by_o christ_n which_o remain_v in_o the_o same_o i_o say_v this_o be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o the_o church_n of_o god_n first_o if_o we_o respect_v the_o holy_a doctrine_n of_o god_n in_o all_o those_o point_n which_o be_v and_o be_v keep_v sound_a among_o they_o and_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o baptism_n then_o second_o if_o we_o consider_v the_o kingdom_n and_o people_n themselves_o all_o do_v not_o fall_v from_o christ_n but_o many_o hold_v the_o foundation_n the_o most_o of_o they_o lie_v scatter_v and_o hide_v in_o the_o desolation_n and_o ruin_n three_o if_o we_o regard_v that_o the_o infant_n not_o only_o of_o these_o faithful_a but_o even_o of_o the_o wicked_a apostate_n which_o worship_v the_o beast_n be_v still_o within_o the_o covenant_n as_o the_o holy_a seed_n we_o shall_v see_v that_o the_o papacy_n be_v and_o be_v in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v the_o temple_n of_o god_n and_o not_o the_o synagog_n of_o rome_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n then_o be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o apostasy_n in_o the_o church_n let_v we_o come_v then_o more_o particular_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o the_o time_n of_o popery_n be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o have_v not_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n of_o christ_n from_o rome_n nor_o take_v not_o her_o beginning_n of_o be_v a_o church_n by_o separate_n herself_o from_o that_o romish_a synagog_n but_o have_v her_o spirit_n reviue_v and_o her_o eye_n open_v by_o the_o light_n of_o the_o heavenly_a word_n do_v cast_v forth_o that_o tyranny_n of_o antichrist_n with_o his_o abominable_a idolatry_n heresy_n and_o false_a worship_n and_o seek_v to_o bring_v all_o her_o child_n unto_o the_o right_a faith_n and_o true_a service_n of_o god_n and_o so_o be_v a_o pure_a and_o more_o faithful_a church_n then_o before_o idolatry_n be_v open_o set_v up_o in_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n at_o sundry_a time_n it_o do_v not_o as_o i_o have_v show_v disannul_v the_o covenant_n of_o god_n with_o they_o nor_o debar_v their_o child_n from_o the_o holy_a sign_n of_o circumcision_n but_o all_o the_o jew_n be_v call_v the_o child_n of_o the_o covenant_n then_o let_v the_o brownist_n show_v some_o reason_n why_o it_o shall_v be_v otherwise_o in_o this_o case_n with_o our_o church_n than_o it_o be_v with_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n thus_o much_o for_o the_o one_o part_n of_o your_o assumption_n wherein_o you_o blame_v the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o receive_v in_o all_o by_o baptism_n now_o touch_v the_o other_o part_n of_o it_o in_o which_o you_o affirm_v that_o there_o be_v no_o power_n to_o cast_v forth_o any_o by_o excommunication_n you_o speak_v very_o false_o for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v some_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v but_o you_o reason_n thus_o the_o person_n and_o all_o his_o parish_n have_v not_o the_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v any_o one_o offendor_n therefore_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v not_o pour_v to_o excommunicate_v be_v it_o possible_a if_o a_o man_n will_v study_v to_o reason_n absurdlie_o that_o he_o shall_v excel_v you_o will_v you_o argue_v thus_o every_o several_a part_n by_o itself_o have_v not_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v therefore_o the_o whole_a together_o have_v not_o the_o power_n it_o be_v not_o meet_v indeed_o that_o the_o parson_n and_o his_o parish_n shall_v have_v the_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v unless_o it_o be_v such_o a_o parish_n as_o have_v the_o consistory_n of_o pastor_n teacher_n and_o governor_n it_o seem_v you_o have_v great_a skill_n in_o the_o discipline_n of_o christ_n the_o several_a flock_n about_o geneva_n without_o the_o city_n have_v every_o one_o a_o pastor_n and_o two_o elder_n but_o yet_o they_o have_v not_o the_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v but_o that_o be_v refer_v to_o the_o consisiorie_n which_o be_v within_o the_o city_n master_n beza_n epist_n 20._o will_v you_o say_v those_o several_a flock_n can_v be_v the_o 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