pulled the Nut out of the Fire with the Cats Foot but both the Action and Design was wholly the Monky's and not the Cat 's and this Gentleman makes so many ugly Grimaces through his whole Pamphlet against all Christian Churches as well as that of England that it is an easie Matter to see who was Master of this Movement 'T is true said he he does sometimes seem to boggle a little at the Deists Arguments brought against the Truth and in Scandal of the Christian Religion but he does it after such a yawning rate that you would believe he were more than half a-sleep when he did it But however it be as to that matter yet all they bring against the Church of England he swallows whole and does not only allow but improve them So that whatver Disguises he would appear under in other Respects yet all that is said against the Church of England is plainly his own and ought to be so esteemed And therefore said he let him put on as many Skins as he will we see his Ears still as the Man knew well enough who it was that stunk though the Woman said 't was her Dog But pray Sir said I how can this be When Page the 8th we are told that he belongs to the Church of England and that it was well for him he was of the Bishop's Church for without a dutiful Allegiance to the Bishops he could not hold the Place he now enjoys I am glad Sir said my Friend to hear that some Men may hold Places under the Church of England that are not of the De Facto-ship And this is the only Instance I think though I believe much against his Will and Knowledge that he has confuted the Objections he made by the Deists against the Church of England For by this Instance he hath let the World see that a Man may hold a Place and yet pay very small Duty to the Bishops Not that I doubt said he but that he is old enough to hold a Place under any Church whatever and be their Shiboleth the Jure Divino or De Facto or any other Title he is wise enough to hold fast what he has only it may be he had rather their Shiboleth were the Title of the People that so the King might hold his Place under him And as for his belonging to the Church of England he may Sir said he for all as I know if you will allow Judas to belong to Jesus and the twelve or Ascarides to belong to the Body of a Man After he had said this Sir said I we will have done if you please with the Title and I will beg the Favour of you to give me your Judgment of the Body of the Discourse Judas It is what I have been long a waiting for Tim. I tell you then Sir said he that if you will believe all this Author says you may believe enough if only what he proves you can believe nothing For if you will not take his Word for his Stories there 's an End of them and I dare boldly say that take ten Pages together through his whole Book and there is hardly one Word of Truth in them or if there be it may honestly be said of him what he colourably says of the Deists Page the 14th that he stretches his Conclusion beyond his Premises The main of his Building is raised on the Shiboleths as he calls them of the Church of England The Doctrine of Non-resistance and the De Facto Title there is a little Colour of Truth in the First in the last there is none at all So that if you do but rightly state the former and barely deny the latter his whole Structure falls about his Ears and he is buried in its Ruins The rest of his Book is most of it Personal Calumniations just said and never proved and for the greatest Part as false as the Foundations of his Building are rotten In short Sir said he it is a Discourse written with that little Truth and less Argument with that incomparable Malice against all settled Churches particularly that of England against Christianity it self in all its holy Mysteries more especially that of the Divinity of our Blessed Saviour that I cannot think those Papers can deserve any better Fate than to expire in a like Place where the Authour 's famous Ancestor Arius did and Sir said he I honestly confess to you that those I had of them have sometimes since given up the Ghost Thus Sir you have heard in part the Thoughts of my Friend upon this Pamphlet pray now before we go any further what are your Thoughts of him Judas Why truly Sir to deal plainly with you I think him a Priest-ridden Ass one that has more Ears than Brains that hears and receives whatsoever the Priests please to put into his Head and has no Judgment to distinguish of things But as for my Friend the Author of this Pamphlet so I call him for so he is I think him next the Honourable S. R. H. the best Distinguisher in the World He had that Acumen Ingenii from his Infancy that he was used to slit Motes in the Sun when he was but four Years old and now he is above threescore he can he says slit a Hair without Spectacles In short Sir I believe that you cannot but see that he has distinguished so nicely between Religion and Priest-Craft that he has made all Ambitious Priests to stink even from Aaron down to this Day And has turned the Edge of the Church of England's Caution to young Travellers Page 5th so sharply against their own Throats that he has distinguished them forever out of their Gains that way by making it plainly appear that there are as many holy Cheats amongst the Clergy of the Church of England as amongst those of Rome And now Sir since you have had my Judgment so freely of your Friend pray let me have yours so of mine and of his Discourse Tim. I will Sir as far as concerns the Church of England but no farther let others answer for themselves And I will do it only on this Supposition too that when I charge this Author with what is said against the Church of England you do not reply that it was said by this or t'other Deist and not by him For besides that this would breed an endless Confusion in our Discourse if the Charge that is made against the Church of England be answered it matters not under whose Name it be done But I cannot think of a juster Way than doing it under this Authors for the Cause and Quarrel is wholly his though like a Coward he hides his own Head and thrusts other Men forward to fight it for him Do not think therefore Sir that in the Judgment I shall give of and Answer I shall make to this Pamphlet that like a Gladiator I will go to fencing with half a dozen Men at once when 't is obvious that all the Thrusts they
make against the Church of England are directed by this Author's Hand Or be the Arguments whose they will the Malice 't is plain is purely his Judas I do not know Sir how my Friend may like this Dealing but if you will not be led I cannot drive you you must take your own Way Tim. Then Sir to what you said last I reply that notwithstanding what this Author hath said blessed be God the Throats of the Clergy of the Church of England are pretty well yet but how they would be if this Author had his full Swinge at them I cannot tell But pray Sir by your leave a little Did the Difference between the Church of England and the Dissenters in Bishop Laud's Time shew the young Traveller upon his Return that they were both Cheats Pray what then Sir must a young Traveller think now upon his Return of the Deists when he shall read their bitter and malicious Invectives also against the Church of England Will he not think that they now as well as the Dissenters formerly are contending with the said Church about Power and that there is Knaves-Craft as well as Priest-Craft and that Deism is as very a Cheat as they say the Christianity of the Church of England is In short Sir our young Traveller seeing all Christian Churches exploded by these Men and in the mean time observing so much Malice and Bitterness in their Writings against all Perswasions but those of their own Sect pray Sir what must this young Gentleman do if this Man's Argument be good but turn Atheist and leave them all Once more Sir what if our young Traveller upon his Return should find an Army of Factious Republicans in Rebellion against the King and Parliament and the King and Parliament in Maintenance of their just Rights and Laws in Arms against them Must the young Traveller presently conclude that this is only a Contest for Power and that the King and Parliament are as very Cheats as those Rebels And that their Controversie at bottom only is How they shall make the best Market of the People Will he conclude that Government is nothing but a Piece of Kings-Craft and that Government and Governours are Cheats both alike Will he conclude that as by reason of the zealous Contest between Archbishop Laud on the one Part and the Presbyterian Kirk on the other he will be of no Religion so by reason of these Controversies between the King and the People he will live under no Government Will he therefore betake himself as if this Man's Argument be good he must to Hobbs his Natural State of Independency and like a Bear or a Wolf retire to Caves and Dens and bid Defiance to all Mankind Or will he not rather as he ought and as he will if he have made any Improvements in his Travels Arm himself in defence of the King and Laws of the Land against those Factious and Ambitious Rebels whose only design is to be uppermost themselves But to let this pass Sir that which troubles me most is to hear this Author so positively affirm the Church of England to be but one Great Bulk of Imposture and that all her Priests to a Man except Mr. Johnson are so many Knaves and Cheats At this Rate Sir he must believe the Church of England to be the Church of Hell as well as the Church of Rome and for all as I can see by this Charge must have a great many more Devils in her than she has Judas Why truly Sir my Friend does verily believe the Church of England so to be and so he will call her assoon as he can do it with the same security he now does the Church of Rome Nay Sir I tell you further that he believes all setled Churches in Christendom so to be For he tells you plainly Page 27. That 't is the trick of all setled Churches to take away the Use of Mens Reason to render them Slaves and Vassals to their Dictates and Commands and what are these pray that do so but Churches of Hell But particularly as to the Church of England he has proved it to a Demonstration that she is so Arrant a Cheat that she has no other Ends than to make her self Rich and Great Tim. If this be proved Sir I am his Convert But pray Sir does this Author mean that the Church of England Cheats us of the Use of our Reason because she does not teach us to believe that one of his Friends Page 25. or rather indeed himself can write as good a Moral as our Saviour Judas We will let that pass at present Sir if you please and examine this Author as near as our discourse will permit page by page and if I do not demonstrate to you that he has made it clearly appear that all setled Christian Churches are but so many Cheats but more particularly the Church of England I also with the rest of the Fools will give up my Reason to them Timotheus If you do Sir I am your Proselyte and will take this opportunity to recover the Use of mine Judas We will begin with the Church of England Sir I told you that the main end of that Church was to make Themselves Rich and Great nay that they do as my Friend says even Rival the Sovereign Power For the proof of this see Pages 6 7. The Bishop's House says my Friend like that of the King 's must be called his Palace he must keep up his Claim to the Miter and Crosier to Vie with the Crown and Scepter The Title of the King's Courts is Anno Regni nostri of the Bishops Anno Consecrationis nostrae In short is the King Enthroned The Bishop is Enthronised Has the King a Divine Right So has the Bishop c. And now what think you Sir Is not this Argument a plain Demonstration of the Ambition and Pride of the Bishops Is it not worth its weight in Gold as scarce as Mony is now Tim. It may be Sir for all as I know and yet not be worth much neither Judas Why do you think 't is of no weight Sir Tim. Undoubtedly of very great and strength too The whole Convocation must needs sink under the Burden of it Another such Barrel clapt under the Church of England would blow her up infallibly But now I think of it Sir this Argument puts me in mind of two other sorts of Men who if this Man 's Reasoning be good seem as dangerous to the State as the Bishops and Clergy And you might do well the next time he comes up to the sitting of Parliament to advise him to take them a little into his Consideraton Judas Pray who are those Sir Tim. Why the Nobility and Lawyers especially the Lord Chancellor and the Twelve Judges Judas But pray Sir how do you think my Friend may make this out for if it can be done I can promise for him for next a Priest he hates these Men at his Heart
more than Jesuite Sir that can bring this Story under the Doctrine of Probability Rablais would have Blush'd to have put it into his History of Grangousier and Nothing can Match the Impudence of him that told it but the Folly of him that believes it Judas But Sir Can you deny that Dr. S. set up a De Facto-ship Tim. If we do allow he has is therefore the De Facto-ship the Shiboleth of the Church of England This Man Reasonings keeps equal Pace with his Stories and his Logick and Ethicks are just of a Measure So impossible is it for any Man to Apostatize from Christianity except he first turn Renegade to all Honesty and Truth Judas But pray Sir are there any of the Clergy preferred but such as come in upon the De Facto Title Does not my Friend tell you plainly there are not Tim. Truly Sir if your Friend makes no more Conscience of what he does than what he says his Neighbours that live near him had need to keep their Mounds in good Repair If there be any likelihood of Truth in this Charge Sir why does not this Man produce the Subscriptions required of the Clergy to this Title in order to their Preferment What will he answer to their Unanimous Associations mentioned before in which they own King William to be Lawful and Rightful King of England c. Will he tell us that none of these Associators were preferred Bless me how many vacant Dignities be there then at this time in the Church of England Enough sure to tempt an Infidel to turn Christian or an old Republican to turn Churchman and be of the De Facto ship But now we are talking of Title-making pray Sir what Title would this Man be pleased with The Jure Divino Title he Laughs at the De Facto he Rails at that of Conquest he says is Cut off by Parliament the Matrimonial Title is dead Pray what Title is it Sir that this Man would have Judas He tells you Sir Page the 28th That one of his Friends saw with his own Eyes our Great and Gracious King accept the Crown of England as the Gift of the People Tim. One of his Friends saw that is himself saw Very well Sir and so the King's Title to his Crown must stand upon the Sandy Foundation of the Will of Himself and some few Republican Demagogues Pray Sir who leaves a Loophole for King James his Right now And not only for His but for any other Man or Body of Men as well as King William when these Men shall think fit to find a Crack in his Covenants When it shall be wholly in their Power which shall be Uppermost the Head or the Rump Pray Sir who Rivals the Sovereignty now The Jure Divino Bishops that say God makes the King or this Man that says He makes Him Who Rivals the Sovereignty now Sir Those Church-men that Tay if you will believe all that his Majesty holds his Kingdoms by his Sword or this Man that says He holds them from his Grant But now I think on 't this passage of our Author satisfies me very well why he called the Church of Rome the Church of Hell Page 22. It being now manifest that the Pope has been a damnable Usurper for some Hundreds of Years that Prophecy of Jer. 1.10 being never meant of Him but Personally of our good Author who is the Holy Father of whom it is said I have set thee this day over the Nations and over the Kingdoms to root out and to pull down to destroy and throw down to build and to plant Judas But by your leave Sir my Friend shews plainly Page the 11th the great Reason the Church of England have to maintain this De Facto Title for thereby they kill two or three Birds with a Stone Tim. Do they so Sir then they sate a little nearer together than your Friend has laid his Stories But I have shewn you just now that the Church of England may carry her Ammunition home again for he himself has killed them already Judas Well Sir let them be De Facto Men or what they will it is plain they are Enemies to the Government Tim. Pray Sir how does this appear Judas From their being great Friends to the Jacobites who are so and yet these Jacobites find such Favour with the Bishops that if the Livings they lose are in the Bishops Gift he shall present any Friend which the dispossessed Jacobite shall recommend Now what can be more by them desired than to enjoy the Profits of their Livings and put in what Curate they please as is said Page the 9th Tim. This is another Taste of our Author 's Travelling Accomplishments But oh these Bishops these pestilent Bishops How heavy do they lie upon many a good Man's Stomach How Sick do they make this good Author What Convulsions what Vomitings do they cause in Him Even to the casting up of his Christianity and all Truth and Honesty with it What great Pity is it that the King and Government will not destroy this Pestilent Race of Men who have been a Part Constitutive of it little more than a Thousand Years that this good Author may recover his Health again But pray Sir If there be any Bishops guilty of this Man's Charge why did he not Name them Why did he not tell us who they be and where they live Why did he not produce the Bonds of Resignation they have taken from the Curates and the Articles they agreed on He has kindness enough for them to have done it if he could But alas Sir if he had descended to Particulars he knew well enough that those Bishops would quickly have vindicated themselves and exposed both the Falseness and Malice of his Charge He knew that Knaves-Craft lay safest under Generals and that the unthinking Multitude would swallow this Pill whole as he gave it them and since abusing of the Clergy was the Text he was to Preach on he was resolved not to wander from it And whether this was done by false and malicious Invectives groundless and scandalous Stories weak and absurd Consequences it was all one so it was done This was the Author's great Aim and this was keeping to his Text. Rem Rem quocunque modo Rem Thus Sir you see this heavy Charge improved by the highest Aggravations is the issue only of this Author 's bewildred Brain and that there is no hurt done but what his unchristian Calumniations have done to himself Judas But pray Sir let me urge a Supposition to you made Page 15. Suppose the King should bestow a Bishoprick upon a De Facto Doctor and this Doctor should there find his old Acquaintance Dr. H. and being a Stranger in his Diocess should be willing to instruct himself in the Characters of Men from the good Doctor would it not fall out so that the Clergy of the Diocess must be used well or ill as the most open and notorious Enemy the Government
A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Timotheus and Judas Concerning a Pamphlet called The Growth of DEISM in England A DIALOGUE Between Timotheus Judas Concerning a PAMPHLET CALLED The Growth of Deism in England LONDON Printed for S. Manship at the Ship in Cornhil near the Royal-Exchange MDCXCVI TO THE READER ABout the middle of June last a Gentleman put into my Hands a Pamphlet called The Growth of Deism in England but withall told me that he had borrowed it upon promise to restore it with speed and therefore could allow me just time to peruse it and so I did and that was all My Curiosity leading me to a further and more ferious perusal of it I sent with what speed I could to London for one of those Pamphlets but could not get one till July the 18th Assoon as I had received it and read it once or twice I believed that the Author's Travels in his Youth had spoiled him and so much corrupted his Christianity as not to leave him the Morals of an Honest Infidel What his Modesty his Truth and Charity are his Pamphlet tells us plainly enough What his Religion is I wish he himself could tell If we should allow him to be a poor deformed By-blow of Socinus we do him great Honour But who can guess what or who he is He has more Disguises on than Father Grey-beard had on the Scaffold in 48. Jan. 30. Whether that Man be still living or no who can tell But however that be the Author of the Growth of Deism has undertaken the like Jobb of Journey-work again excepting only that his Master has enlarged his Commission to the Execution of the whole Body of Christianity with its Prince or as he calls him Page 17. its Patron I had sent this abroad a little sooner to beg the Honour of its being admitted into his Numerous Acquaintance but I feared being upon his Travels in making his Summer-Visits it might not find him But the Season of the Year approaching now that will call him to his Winter-Quarters in London I thought it good Manners to send this forth a little before-hand to wait him there and Congratulate his Return A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Timotheus Judas Concerning a Pamphlet called the Growth of Deism in England Judas SIR next paying my Respects to you after your Return Home the chief of my business is to have your Judgment of a Pamphlet lately written called The Growth of Deism in England Tim. I just saw and heard of it Sir in my Journey and that was all Judas Bless me Sir It has been abroad several months and written with that smartness of Stile and quickness of Wit that I am amazed to hear you say you did not hear of it before Tim. If you could have added Evidence of Truth and Strength of Argument it had been never the worse But you know Sir that I live a Retired Life and that I have neither Time nor Mony like that Author to Contract a Numerous Acquaintance to spend the Winter in Town and the Summer in Country Visits There may be a thousand Books Printed and I never hear of One of them And it was meer chance only that ever I heard of this Judas But pray Sir what is your Judgment of it for I presume you have read it since your Return Tim. Once or twice I have Sir enough in Conscience to see through the Authors both Honesty and Argument But because I do not much trust to my own Judgment in any thing I will if you please Sir wave mine a while and give you an honest Gentleman's Opinion of it who was with me lately and who had scanned it narrowly Judas With all my Heart Sir Tim. Asking then his Judgment Sir of it he told me that it was ominous to stumble in the Threshold When I read Sir said he the Title of that Pamphlet of the Growth of Deism I expected to have heard of Arguments to invalidate all Revelation I expected to have heard of Sampson's Locks and Balaam's Ass in the Old Testament and of as many Absurdities in Matters of Faith and Falshoods in Matters of Fact in the New I believed he would have proved its inconsistency with the Chronology and History of those Times in which it was written of its prescribing Mysteries to be believed which were contradictory to common Understanding and of matters of Practice which were so to common Morals I expected to have heard that the Apostles were no proper Judges of the Matters of Fact they delivered that they were corrupted either through Interest or Design or rendered Incompetent through Ignorance or Profligate Lives and by consequence that their Testimony could not be supposed to pass in any Court of Judicature in the World and that for the same Reasons we might reject the Validity of it too This I say I lookt for at least from this Man when I read the Title to his Pamphlet for I expected Pertinence and not Design but instead thereof out comes a Mouse at last and tells me that there are a parcel of Men amongst the Clergy of England that do not live so good Lives as they should do as if said he there were any Body of Men in the World that did and that our Saviour had not expresly foretold that to the End thereof there would be Tares mixed with the Wheat Sir said I methinks there cannot be a weaker and more Ridiculous Argument brought against the truth of any Doctrine than the ill Lives of some of its Professors For if there be any Force in it there is with Christianity an End of all Religion in the World for none are without some Men of bad Lives and all Mankind if this Argument be good must with one dead weight sink into downright Atheism To which my Friend replyed and who knows Sir saith he what hidden Reserve this Man had when he made use of it But Sir said I it may be if this Author's Life were narrowly inspected into that it might be found no very good Argument for the Truth of that Religion whatever it be that he himself professes To which my Friend returned We ought Sir to have better grounds to believe it is than he has given us in this Pamphlet for Diabolical Slanders and Malice said he are but poor Arguments of a Good Life But when all is done said my Friend if the bad Lives of some of the Clergy of England are an Argument against the Truth of Revelation the Lives of those that are good must by a Parity of Reason be an Argument for it and except said he that this Man is lost to all Shame and Modesty he cannot deny but that there are abundance of the Clergy of England that live answerably to their Faith Upon this I interposed a little and said you seem Sir to me to be much mistaken For this Gentleman does not say that these Arguments have made him a Deist but some of his Acquaintance To which he replied The Monky Sir you know