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A02522 A common apologie of the Church of England against the vniust challenges of the ouer-iust sect, commonly called Brownists. Wherein the grounds and defences, of the separation are largely discussed: occasioned, by a late pamphlet published vnder the name, of an answer to a censorious epistle, which the reader shall finde in the margent. By I.H. Hall, Joseph, 1574-1656.; Robinson, John, 1575?-1625. Answer to a censorious epistle. 1610 (1610) STC 12649; ESTC S103653 113,921 160

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7. Arg. 1. Answ. Counterpoys Character of the beast ag R. Clifton Arch-deacon Beatissimus Papa passi●n in Epist Ignat. ad Trallian Euseb. l. 3. Ex Euseb. Hier. Catalog script Epiph. ●nio c. Cal. Instit l. 4. Hieron Euagrio Heming Potest Eccles. clas 3. c. 10. Hinc Ecclesia purior secuta tempora Apostolorum fecit alios Patriarchas quorum erat curare vt Episcupi cuiusque d●ocescos rite eligerentur vt suum munus Episcopi singuli probe administrarent c. Arist. Pol. 7. Potentia diuitiarum pauper tatis humilitas vel humiliorem vel inferiorem Episcopum non facit Hieron Euagr. Sep. And so do all the Reformed Churches in the world of whose testimony you boast so loud renounce the Prelacy of England as part of that Pseudo-Clergie and Antichristian Hierarchie deriued from Rome Answ. Counterpoys 3 Consid. Ps. 10. 7. Bez. de ministr Euang. c. 18. Cited also by D. Down p. 29. Heming Iudicat caeteros ministros suis Episcopis obtem perare debere Potest Eccles. c. 10. Article 21 Sep. Infallibility of iudgement It seemes the sacred so called Synode assumeth little lesse vnto her selfe in her determinations otherwise how durst she decree so absolutely as she doth touching things reputed indifferent viz. that all men in all places must submit vnto them without exception or limitation Except she could infallibly determine that these her ceremonies thus absolutely imposed should edifie all men at all times how durst she thus impose them To exact obedience in and vnto them whether they offend or offend not whether they edifie or destroy were intollerable presumption Obligatio fine coercione nalla Reg. Iur. Non iura dicenda sunt c. de Ciuitat l. 19. Answ. to the Admon p. 279. cited also by D. Sparkes p. 14. Aug. Ep. 86. In his enim rebus de quibus nih●● certi statuit scriptura diuina mos populi Dei vel instituta maiorum pro lege tenenda sunt Li●ius Decad. 4. l. 4. Nulla lex satis commoda omnibus est id modo quaeritur si maiori parti in summa prodest Cum consedissent sancti religiosi Episcopi Bin. Tom. 1. p. 239. Sancta Synod Carthagi 4. sub Anastasio 553. Sancta Pacifica Synod Antiocben 1. p. 420. Sancta dei Apostolica Synodus 413. Peruenit ad sanctam synodum can Nic. 18. 309. Sancta synod La●dicena 288. Sep. Dispensations with the lawes of God and sins of men To let passe your Ecclesiasticall consistories wherein sins and absolutions from them are as venall and saleable as at Rome Is it not a law of the Eternall God that the Ministers of the Gospell the Bishops or Elders should be apt and able to teach 1. Tim 3 2. Tit. 1. 9. and is it not their greeuous sin to be vnapt hereunto Esa 56. 10 11. And. yet who know-not that the Patrons amongst you present that the Bishops institute the Archdeacons induct the Churces recei●e and the Lawes both Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall allow and iustify Ministers vnapt and v●able to teach G. Ioh. Trou and Exco at Amste Insufficiency 〈◊〉 reside●cy of Ministers Insufficiency non residency of Ministers Sep. Is it not a law of the eternall God that the Elders should feede the flocke ouer which they are set labouring amongst them in the word and doctrine Act. 20. 28. 1. Pet 5. 1. 2. and is it not sinne to omit this duety Can. 34. M. Hooker 5. b. Eccles. Pol. Pag. 26. 3. D. Down of the office and dignity of the Mi●ist Dispensations for pluralities Sep. Plead not for Baall Your dispensations for Non-residency pluralities of Benefices as for two three or more yea tot quot as many as a man will hau●e or can get are so many dispensations with the lawes of God and sinnes of men These things are too impious to be defended and too manifest to be denyed Counterpoys p. 179. Dist. 34. Can. lector Papa potest contra Apostolum dispensare Caus. 25. q. 1. Can. sunt quidam Dispensatin Euangelio c. De concess praebend Tit. 8. Can. Proposuit Secundum plenitu● inem potestatis de iure possumus supra ius dispensare Glossa paulo insr. Papa contra Apostolum dispensat c. Sum. confer p. 52. M. VVhites discou Bar. ag Gyff Inconst. of Brow p. 113 Ibid. Inquir into Th. VVhite Sep. Disposition of Kingdomes and Deposition of Princes You are wiser and I hope honester then thus to attempt thogh that receiued maxime amongst you No ceremony no Bishoppe no Bishoppe no King sauors too strongly of that weed but what though you be loyall to earthly Kings and their crownes and Kingdomes yet if you be Traytors and rebels against the King of his Church Iesus Christ and the scepter of his Kingdome not suffering him y his lawes and officers to reigne ouer you but in stead of them do stoupe to Antichrist in his offices and ordinances shall your loyaltie towards men excuse your treasons against the Lord though you now crie neuer so lowd we haue no King but Caesar Ioh. 19. 15. yet is there an other King one Iesus which shall returne and passe a heauy doome vpon the rebellious Luc. 19. 27. These enemies which would not haue me reigne ouer them bring them and slay them before me P. 36. Es. 36. 13. Sep. Parting stakes with God in con●ersion Not to speake of the errour of vniuersall grace and consequently of freewil that groweth on apace amongst you what doe you else but put in for a part with God in conuersion though not through freedome of will yet in a deuised Ministery the meanes of conuersion it being the Lords peculiar as well to appoint the outward Ministery of conuersion as to giue the inward grace 1. Cor. 3. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 De Consecr d. 2. Ego Bereng Apol. Sep. Where say you are those rotten heapes of Transubstantiating of bread And where say I learned you your deuout kneeling to or before the bread but from that error of Transubstantiatiō Yea what lesse can it insinuate then eyther that or some other the like Idolatrous conceipt If there were not something more in the bread and wine then in the water at Baptisme or in the word read or preached Why should such solemne kneeling be so seuerely pressed at that time rather then vpon the other occasions And well and truely haue your own men affirmed that it were farre lesse sinne and appeareance of an Idolatry that is nothing so grosse to tye men in their prayers to kneele before a Crucifixe then before the bread and wine and the reason followeth for that papists commit an Idolatry farre more grosse and odious in worshipping the bread then in worshipping any other of their Images or Idols whatsoeuer Apol of the Min. of Lincoln Dioc. part 1. pag. 66. Sep. Adoring of Images To let passe your deuout kneeling vnto your Ordinary when you take the Oath of Canonicall obedience or
sought not rather strife then satisfaction his Maiesties speech in the Confer at Hampton Court might haue staied the course of your quarrelous pen No reasonable minde but would rest in that gratious and Royall determination Lastly Why looke you not to your owne Elders at home euen your handfull hath not auoided this crime of Non-residency What wonder is it if our world of men haue not escaped SECTION XXXIIII Our loyaltie to Princes cleared theirs questioned YOV that confesse our wisedome and honesty must now pleade for your owne your hope is not more of vs then our feare of you To depose Kings and dispose Kingdomes is a proud worke you want power but what is your will For excommunication it is cleare enough While you fully holde that euery priuate man hath as much power in this censure as the Pastor and that Princes must bee equally subiect with them to these their censures Let any man now deuise if the Brownists could haue a King how that King could stand one day vnexcommunicated Or if this censure meddle onely with his soule not with his Scepter How more then credible is it that some of your assemblies in Queene Elizabeths daies concluded that shee was not euen in our sense supreame head of the Church neither had authority to make lawes Ecclesiasticall in the Church It is well if you wil disclaime it But you know your receiued position That no one Church is superior to other No authority therefore can reuerse this Decree your will may doe it yea what better then rebellion appeares in your next clause While you accuse our loyaltie to an earthly King as treasonable to the King of the Church Christ Iesus If our loyaltie bee a sinne where is yours If we be traytors in our obedience what doe you make of him that commands it VVhether you would haue vs each man to play the Rex and erect a new gouernement or whether you accuse vs as rebels to Christ in obeying the old God blesse King Iames from such subiects But whose is that so vnsauorie weede No Bishoppe no King Know you whom you accuse let me shew you your aduersary it is King Iames himselfe in his Hampton Conference is there not now suspition in the word surely you had cause to feare that the King would proue no good subiect Belike not to Christ VVhat doe you else in the next but proclaime his opposition to the King of KINGS or ours in not opposing his As if we might say with the Israelites O Lord our God other Lords besides thee haue ruled vs If we would admit each of your Elders to bee so many Kings in the Church wee should stoope vnder Christs ordinances Shewe vs your Commission and let it appeare whether we be enemies or you vsurpers Alas you both refuse the rule of his true Deputy and set vp false Let this fearefull doome of Christ light where it is most due Euen so let thine enemies perish O Lord. SECTION XXXV Errours of Free-will c. fained vpon the Church of England GOe on to slaunder Euen that which you say you will not speake you doe speake with much spight and no truth VVhat hath our Church to doe with errours of vniuersall grace or freewill Errors which her Articles doe flatly oppose what shamelesnesse is this Is shee guilty euen of that which shee condemnes if some few priuate iudgements shall conceiue or bring forth an error shal the whole Church doe penance would God that wicked and heretical Anabaptisme did not more growe vpon you then those errours vpon vs you had more neede to defend then accuse But see Christian Reader how this man dragges in crimes vpon vs as Cacus did his Oxen VVe doe forsooth part stakes with God in our conuersion wherein in a deuised Ministery the meanes of conuersion we ll fetch 't about There may be a Ministery without a conuersion and êconuerso There may be a conuersion without a Ministery VVhere now are the stakes parted yet thus we partstakes with the Apostle that wee are Gods fellow-labourers in this great worke Hee hath separated vs to it ioyned vs with him in it it is he as we haue proued that hath deuised our Ministery yea your selfe shall proue it it is his peculiar to appoint the outward Ministerie that giues the inward grace But hath not God giuen inward grace by our outward Ministery Your hearts shall be our witnesses What will follow therfore but that our Ministerie is his peculiar appointment SECTION XXXVI Kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper OVR Kneeling you deriue like a good Herald from the errour of Transubstantiation but to set downe the descent of this pedigree will trouble you wee doe vtterly denie it and challenge your proofe How new a fiction Transubstantiation is appeares out of Berengaries recantation to Pope Nicholas The errour was then so young it had not learned to speake shew vs the same noueltie in our kneeling Till of late men held not the bread to be God of old they haue held it sacred This is the gesture of reuerence in our prayer at the receite as Master Burgesse well interpreted it not of Idolatrous adoration of the bread This was most-what in the eleuation the abolishing wherof cleares vs of this imputation you know we hate this conceit why doe you thus force wrongs vpon the innocent Neither are we alone in this vse The Church of Bohemie allowes and practises it and why is this errour lesse palpable in the wafers of Geneua If the King should offer vs his hand to kisse we take it vpon our kneees how much more when the King of heauen giues vs his sonne in these pledges But if there were not something more then iust reuerence why do we solemnely kneel at the Communion not at Baptisme Can you find no difference In this besides that there is both a more liuely and feeling signification of the thing represented we are the parties but in the other witnesses This therefore I dare boldly say that if your partner M. Smith should euer which God forbid perswade you to rebaptise your fittest gesture or any others at full age would be to receiue that Sacramentall water kneeling How glad you are to take all scraps that fall from any of ours for your aduantage would to God this obseruation of your malitious gatherings would make all our reuerend bretheren w●ary of their censures Surely no idolatry can be worse then that Popish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Bread and the Crucifixe striue for the hier place if we should therefore be so tyed to kneele before the bread as they are tyed to kneele before the Crucifixe their sentence were iust They adore the Crucifixe not wee the bread they pray to the Crucifixe not we to the bread they direct their deuotions at the best by the Crucifixe to their Sauiour wee doe not so by the