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A54844 The new discoverer discover'd by way of answer to Mr. Baxter his pretended discovery of the Grotian religion, with the several subjects therein conteined : to which is added an appendix conteining a rejoynder to diverse things both in the Key for Catholicks, and in the book of disputations about church-government and worship, &c. : together with a letter to the learned and reverend Dr. Heylin, concerning Mr. Hickman and Mr. Bashaw / by Thomas Pierce ... Pierce, Thomas, 1622-1691. 1659 (1659) Wing P2186; ESTC R44 268,193 354

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was begotten by the Progenitor of Monsters And lest his Readers should be to seek on whom he fasten's such ugly calumnies he frequently * Ibid. p. 319 329 338. nameth Sir Henry Vane neither regarding the Quality or Learned parts of that Knight nor any the least Reverence or Care of Truth Of this and many the like prancks I am particularly concern'd to take some notice first because Mr. Baxter hath coupled † Ibid. p. 391. the Vani with Mr. P. And both with four sorts of men by whom the Popish design is kept on foot to wit the Seekers the Infidels the Behmenists and the Quakers Next because mine own sufferings have taught me to look with indignation on other Men's how little soever their principles agree with mine And though I suppose Sir Henry Vane is very far from being partiall to the Episcopal Divines with whom I will rather choose to suffer the greatest hardships than embrace the * Iam●s 4.4 Friendship of the world † H b. 11. ●5 or enjoy the pleasures of Sin for a season yet are we bound to do him right and to be sensible of his wrongs and to afford him that deference which both his Birth and his Breeding have made his due When St Paul had to do with a person of honour amongst the Heathen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A●ts 26.25 he was so civil as to call him most noble Festus And he is sure a grosse Christian who think 's it his duty to be a Clown I cannot tell what judgement that Learned Gentleman may be of but he hath this commendation as well as Grotius that he is hated by Mr. Baxter beyond all measure and is sufficiently averse to the Presbyterians Christian Reader have the patience to be pre-admonish'd of one thing more The greatest abuse and the most groundlesse which I have suffer'd from Mr. Baxter in no less than three distinct Volumes is his indeavour to represent me as an Enemy to Purity and pious life Which however he hath done in as grosse a manner as if he had tryed to what Extremities both of absurdity and Falshood depraved Man may be transported by abusing the Liberty of his Will which God could never predetermine to such uncleannesse yet some at least of his Followers who have never yet seen him without his Vizard have been betrayed by that confidence with which he hath written against his Conscience to incourage his calumnies with their belief As for reason or proof he hath not offer'd any thing towards it but to supply that defect he hath thought it enough to declaim against me for being supposed to have declaim'd against Purit●nes neither naming any one passage in any papers which I had publish'd nor so much as referring to any page where any such passage was to be found I received letters of inquiry where I had written against Puritanes that Mr. Baxter should so largely rebuke me for it before the world My answer was that I never did it for ought I was able to remember and that untill Mr. Baxter could shew me where I should not believe I had been forgetfull Indeed I * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ch 3. p. 75. cited that part of King Iames his Letter which told the Bishops they had to do with two sorts of Enemies Papists and Puritanes and will'd them to goe forward against the one and the other But it appeare's by these words not that I or Archbishop Spotswood by whom the Letter is recorded but that King Iames who writ the Letter had sharply written against Puritanes In so much that Mr. Baxter hath dealt with me as he hath also dealt with Sir Henry Vane whom he † Key for Cath. p. 331. supposeth to have brought Corrupt Opinions out of Italy when it appeare's that Sir Henry was never there But now admit that I had written against the Puritanes before his clamour was put in print as very possibly I did though I professe I know not where and much desire to be inform'd yet I had done no other thing than had been donby the most eminent in point of Piety Learning Iudgment and Moderation from the dayes of Queen Elizabeth to these our own And if I am an Enemy to Religion for having cited the words of others what will be said by Mr. Baxter of Archbishop Whitgift Archbishop Bancroft Judicious Hooker Judge Popham Bishop Andrews Bishop Carleton Bishop Hall Dr. Sanderson with divers others whom I have cited in the first Chapter of this Book whose just severity to the Puritanes may serve to put Mr. Baxter to shame and silence If he means no more than this that I have cited out of the Writings of English and Scotish Presbyterians their own * ☞ See The Sel● Revenger exemplified ch 3. p. 77 78 79 80 81 82 c. Confessions of their own principles and practise too he should have honestly told his Readers that I had written no worse of the Presbyterians than themselves had written of themselves Nor should he have called them Puritanes whom I had called Presbyterians as themselves in their Writings have call'd themselves unless he was willing to acknowledge that they were both the same thing Observe good Reader how the Case stands between us It is confessed by Mr. Knox that Iames Melvin with two more did privately murder the Archbp. of St. Andrews which the same Mr. Knox doth withall commend for a Godly Fact This Confession I † Ibid. p. 8● observed and shewed his page where it is printed Again by 52. Ministers of the Province of London it was confessed from the presse too that instead of a Reformation they had a Deformation in Religion having open'd the very Flood-gates to all Impiety and profanen●sse c. This Concession I * Ibid p. 81. observed and shew'd the page where it was printed That proceeded from the Scotish this from the English Presbyterians What may now be the reason that Mr. Baxter pursues me with so much Rancor Was it my fault that the things were printed without my knowledge or consent and printed by the Authors from whom I had them Or may not a man relate a passage as he find's it printed before his eyes Which was worst of the two that Mr. Knox the Presbyterian commended Murder or that a man of the Church of England did fairly cite his commendation Let it be judg'd by my writings and by the Authors whom I produce whether I am so like an Enemy to Christian purity as they who say it are Friends and Fautors to the most Heathenish Impurity to be imagin'd And because I have met with a sort of men who having been led by blind guides have stuck so fast in the ditch of error as to believe the word Puritane is of a faire signification and import's a man of a pious life I think it my duty to declare before I admit them to read my Book that whensoever I shall be found to speak severe●y concerning
much they do not cease to be Saints but onely grow to be naughty Saints Let others sin never so little as to the eye of the World they do not cease to be ungodly but onely grow to be moral and civil men If it is true what you have told us that your heart is desperately mortally wicked and that you are conscious to your self of being Proud and Selfish and Hypocritical you doe not well to call your self the least of Saints whilest you make us believe that you are no Saint at all As for the lives of those men The contrary lives of Anti-puritanes Psa● 15.4 whom I am for they are such as are for God and for his persecuted spouse for the keeping of Promises and Oathes although it be outwardly to their hurt they are such whose great learning is far inferiour to their lives such whose enemies are not able to defame them without calumnie such whose converse is so unblameable that their enemies confess they are moral men and are fain to tell them they have not grace in their hearts because they see nothing in their actions which is ungracious In a word they are such who rather chuse to suffer affliction with the people of God Heb. 11.25 then to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season If there are any who are not such I never was for them I never will be yet scandalous livers may suffer wrong in some cases wherein 't is a duty to plead their right You say that Fitz Simmons a petulant Iesuite divideth us English Protestants into Formalists and Puritanes and inveigheth against the Puritanes as their greatest enemies You were sorry that mine did use so much of his language and that the Iesuite and his formalists should accord about so ●ad a work Sect. 23. The Accuser's concurrence with the Iesuite Sect. 4. Here you argue against me and your self and not at all against me unless against your self also for you confess that the Iesuite doth call the men of my way by the name of Formalists in which calumniating language you do fully close with him If I must be blamed for using one word which is also used by a Iesuite much more must you Sir who accord with a Iesuite in another I say much more because you do what you condemn And is not Formalist as scandalous as reproachful a title to the Prelatists as Puritane is to the Presbyterians nay do not you use it as a word of obloquy then mark the summe of the whole matter Master Baxter may freely declaim against Prelatists that is the regular sons of the Church of England calling them Formalists Arminians Cassandrian Papists or what he pleases But Master Pierce must not dare to say there is any such thing or name as Puritane in the World It were better his right hand were used as Cranmer's Sect. 24. It were better he were in the state of David before Nathan came to him Sect. 20. What a priviledge is this that you must have the inclosing of contumelious language unto your self If mine were such you are not fit to be my Reprover but I have shewed you that mine was none Sect. 5. Be it so Fitz Simmons his Artifice discovered and the Puritanes serviceableness to the Papists that Fitz Simmons did rail against Puritanes as his greatest enemies though you cite no page where that is visible what do you mean to prove by it that the Puritanes are really his greatest enemies then all is true that Fitz Simmons saith But if they really are not Fitz Simmons lies which sure he may being a Iesuite especially if he holds their prodigious Doctrine of Probability The Iesuists use to say that which is most for their turn and t is for cunning mens interest to rail at them most that do them most service which the Puritanes certainly have done in destroying or suppressing the greatest enemies of the Papists the unchangeable men of the Church of England For this I have frequently your own confession You say the Papists had a hand in ●asting out of our Bishops p. 95. and in the killing of our King p. 106.108 Do men endeavour the destruction of their enemies or their friends Again you say that the Papists are crept in among all sects Quakers Seekers Anabaptists Millenaries Levellers Independents and * For this last you cite the News book Presbyterians p. 99 100. To what end but to cherish and abet each Sect Do men cherish and abet their greatest enemies or their friends It hath indeed been the cunning of certain Papists to pretend great kindness to Episcopal men nay to the XXXIX Articles of the Church of England of which you have Franciscus de San●tâ Clarâ for an Example nay to whisper among the people that his Grace of Canterbury was a Papist nay farther to offer him a Cardinall's Hat or any thing else in the World to make it believ'd that the Prelatists were Popishly affected that as such they might be hated and so destroyed Consider how you have help'd them in this design and then I shall hope you will do so no more Consider also the insufficiencie of your arguing and abstain from such arguing for time to come Your self at one time or other have inveigh'd against all and yet you would be thought to be hardly an enemy unto any The Iansenians and the Iesuites do inveigh against each other as much as may be yet both against Protestants for both are Papists Salma●us inveighed against our E●glish Presbyterians as the worst creatures to be imagined and yet himself was no Papist or Episcopal Divine but a more peaceable Presbyterian then those against who● he had whet his pen. You might have saved me the l●bour of this whole Section had you consider'd what I said on the like occasion in page 98. Chapt. 3. of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 You say I was to blame that I would not give you my description of a Puritane that you might know my meaning that a Puritane is not the same thing to one man as to another whereupon you reckon up your several notions of a Pu●itane § 23. King James his description of a Puritane Sect. 6. As you do not cite any page wher●in I u●ed the word Puritane so I suppose if you had done it you could not have spoken what now you speak for I cannot remember that I ever used that word when I did not abundantly unfold my meaning even as much as you have done when you have spoken of Papists or Presbyterians of which you know there are many sorts How many sorts are there of Independents of whom you many times speak without declaring distinctly which sort you mean Yet it appears by my writings that I have meant by Puritanes what was meant by King Iames with whom you confess that a Puritane was a turbulent seditious Seper●tist or Non-Conformist But you might have confessed much more had you been pleas'd for he *
of mind which reluctancy she had in her commission of adultery upon which she concluded 't was but an infirmity of the flesh not an obliquity of her will that her temptations were unresistible and the spirit was willing to be obedient though the flesh was weak She made the same perverse use of the seventh chapter to the Romanes by † 2 Pet. 3.16 wresting it just to serve her turn as the Preachers whom she admired were wont to do But by the blessing of God on my endeavours I convinced her of the danger as well as madness of her opinions and of the deadly influence they had had upon her practice and how the Scripture was grossely wrested from its true intent and importance to serve for such vilo offices of which she had had some sad experience I made it manifest that she had fin'd against conscience and that her sin was * Est actuale mortale in labente post reconciliationem actio interior vel exterior pugnans cum lege Dei facta contra conscientiam Melanchth de Pecsat Actual p. 83. aggravated by that which she had alledged as an excuse and a lessening of it to wit the reluctancy of her mind which shew'd her sin to have been wilful Now whether this Presbyterian woman for such she was in all points when first she came into my house were sent on purpose to baffle me with her command of words and prodigious memory of the Scriptures or whether she came of her own accord to hear what I could say in opposition to her Teachers I cannot tell But I have witness of her conviction before she went out of my doors which was about four or five hours from after the time when she came in and s●nce that time I never saw her but once when meeting me and another walking togeher in my Church-yard about four or five miles from her own abode she heartily thanks me for my instructions Sir I have told you this great truth with a most charitable intention to you and others upon a most pregnant occasion which you have offer'd me from the Press and had it not been for this occasion this Narrative might have died in perfect silence Had I not known that there were Gnosticks in the Apostles times and what the Ranters in these times are wont to hold and upon what Principles they ground their Doctrines and how avowedly they have practised according to what they have believed nay had I not read some books which I shall cite in due place and compared my other readings with what I have read out of your own I should hardly have had the courage to tell a story so strange as might seem to some people to be hardly true But besides that I have witnesses from within and without me I have a witness above me too for * 2 Cor. 11.31 The God and Father of our Lord Iesus Christ which is blessed for evermore knoweth that I lie not Hugon Grot. Anim. in Animadv Andr. Riveti p. 80 81. Miror vero conscientiam aliorum lacessere eos qui omnem vim conscientiae adimun● suo dogmate cum doceant justificatis five electi● suis non imputari non auferre st●tum Gratiae Adulteteria Homicidia ideo quod ea faciant animo reluctante id est contra conscientiam I will shut up this Section but not this subject with an useful passage out of Grotius in his Animadversions upon Rivet I wonder saith he that they should vex the con●ciences of others who do enervate by their opinion all force of conscience when they teach that Murders and Adulteries are not imputed to the justified or to them whom they call Elect nor take away from them the state of Grace and that for this reason because they do such villa●ies with a reluctant mind that is to say against their conscience The sins of David with their circumstances Sect. 3. But let us consider the sins of David in regard of manner ends and concomitants and see how they difference his sins from the like in a graceless man as you affirm Sect. 18. First David deliberately defiled Bathsheba 2 Sam. 11.2 3 4. Next to palliate his adultery he cogg'd with her husband v. 8. Thirdly finding that would not take he dissembled with him yet farther and made him drunk v. 13. Fourthly Seeing that that plot had failed he contrived the murder of the Husband that so he might carry away the wife v. 15. Fifthly when Uriah's death was certified to David he plaid the hypocrite with the Messenger and bid him tell Ioab That the sword devoureth one as well as another v. 25. Sixthly Uriah being thus basely murdered David married his Widow which was to kill him over and over even after he was dead v. 27. Seventhly his murder was the more horrible because he gratified the Ammonites and caused the murder of a great multitude of his loyal subjects meerly that Uriah might be murder'd with them v. 15 16 17. Eighthly All this while he plaid the Hypocrite with God both in his publick and private acts of Religion lifting up unclean hands and impure eyes unhallowed lipps and a stony heart by which how his sacrifice was polluted I pray Sir see and consider in the first Chapter of Isaiah v. 11 12 13 14 15. Add to all this that David was 1 a King and should have given a better example 2 a Prophet who should have taught whom he perverted 3 a person of high endowments of Grace and Nature the abuse of which was the greater sin 4 One who had women enough at home both Wives and Concubines which made his seeking abroad the more unexcusable 5 One to whom Vriah was an * 2 Sam. 11.11 affectionate friend as well as a faithful and valiant subject fighting against the Kings enemies whilest the King was acting enmity to him and his Besides so many distinct sins and so many aggravations which could not but make them † Rom. 7.13 exceeding sinful he lived indulgently in them from month to month was lull'd in carnal security and as if his conscience had been * 1 Tim. 4.2 seared as it were with a hot iron he never so much as said † Iorem. 8.6 what have I done he was not startled with Nathans Apologue 2 Sam. 12.1 2 3 4 5 6. untill he was fain to indigitate the moral of it applying it home unto himself with a Tu es homo Thou art the man v. 7. Now if with all that I have spoken of David's guilt you will compare the whole speech which God sent Nathan to rouze him with and consider the greatnesse of his ingratitude from ver 7. to v. 10. which is the * Homicidae Tyranni Fures Adulteri Raptores Sacrilegi Proditores erunt Sed infra ista omnia ingratus est Senec. l. 1. de Beneficiis cap. 10. mihi p. 386. greatest aggravation that sins are capable of and how great an occasion he had