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A39306
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A reply to an answer lately published to a book long since written by W.P. entituled A brief examination and state of liberty spiritual &c. by Thomas Ellwood.
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Ellwood, Thomas, 1639-1713.; Penn, William, 1644-1718. Brief examination and state of liberty spiritual.
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1691
(1691)
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Wing E624; ESTC R29061
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86,814
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104
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when that Caution is given in the love of God it is in the same love received But when under pretence of Cautioning against Formality some not distinguishing between Formality and Form endeavour to overturn subvert and take away all Form and Order from the Church of Christ we cannot receive but reject such Cautions and Cautioners as knowing that they come not from nor serve the God of Order but that Spirit which would bring all into disorder and Confusion In page 43 they say Pray let us know why Truth 's Testimonies may not be allowed and pass current where the Life and Conversation is suitable Rep. Truths Testimonies are allowed and do pass currant among Truth 's Followers But the Adversaries should have explained what they mean by Truth 's Testimonies For those Doctrinal Principles delivered of old by Truth himself and afterwards by his inspired Followers and Recorded in the Scriptures of Truth are Truth 's Testimonies especially as they are taken up and used by the same Spirit that gave them forth And the Testimonies that proceed from the Spirit of Truth speaking through any of his Servants in our Meetings or elsewhere at this day are the Testimonies of Truth also And all these are allowed and pass current amongst Friends But if the Adversaries mean by Truth 's Testimonies their own Testimonies those Testimonies that they bring and thrust upon Friends in our Meetings and ask why those Testimonies may not be allowed and pass currant the Answer is because those Testimonies are not Truth 's Testimonies how like soever they may seem to be neither come they in Truth 's way They proceed not from the Spirit of Truth but from that Spirit that Fights against Truth a Spirit of Dissention Division Disunion and Separation from Friends in Truth In page 45. they say Might not a little Charity help all this could you look upon such as trouble you to be Conscientious Again Certainly you cannot think that all is wrong that are dissatisfied c. We would perswade you better by assuring that some are right by being sincere Rep. They who have known these Troubles throughly and have seen and observed their manner of Troubling and in what Spirit they have done it had need have more than a little Charity to make them look on such to be Conscientious Was their publishing Friends in Print to be Apostates Innovators Setters up of Images Introducers of Popery Idolaters c. An Argument that they were Conscientious Was their exposing Truth and Friends by their printed Pamphlets to the Scorn Contempt and Derision of the Wicked and rendring them as much as in them lay obnoxious to the Government a token of their being Conscientious Was their shutting Friends out of their Meting-Houses wherein they had a rightful Interest and Propriety exposing antient and tender Bodies and some their nearest Relations to all Extremities of Weather and that for divers years together as at Reding and elsewhere an Effect of their being Conscientious O barbaroas Consciences O conscientious Barbarism where shall a Parallel to this be found unless in that which Christ foretold his Disciples Iohn 16.2 They shall put you out of the Synagogues yea the time cometh that whosoever killeth you will think that he doth God Service How far these conscientious Troublers have answered this Prophecy let themselves and others consider Nay have they not been worse than those forespoken of by Christ For they were open Enemies these feigned Friends and false Brethren Now whereas they say Certainly you can not think that all is wrong that are dissatisfied with those new things brought in at least as made Terms of Communion I Reply We do not think all that are so dissatisfied equally wrong for we are sensible those Troublers have by slanderous Suggestions and false Insinuations beguiled and betrayed some whose Recovery out of the Snare in which those Troublers have taken them we earnestly desire and travel for But though we do not think all alike wrong yet we do think and know that all who think new things are brought in and made Terms of Cummunion with Friends are wrong in thinking so whatever they are otherwise And whereas they say They would perswade us better by assuring that some are right by being sincere I Reply If they are they must not be any of those Troublers who notwithstanding they have separate Meetings of their own to which they have withdrawn and chosen to meet apart as some of themselves have elsewhere exprest it do yet frequently thrust in at some of our Meetings and impose themselves upon Friends for Preachers as if they did it on purpose to disturb and to make trouble in our Meetings Can any thing be more contrary to Sincerity than this Is not this an extream degree of Hypocrisie Let the Troublers therefore give over their Hypocrisie and make it appear that they themselves are sincere to what they themselves have chosen and set up before they take upon them to give assurance of the sincerity of others They bid us Remember They obtrude nothing upon you Rep. That 's false Those Troublers obtrude themselves their Preaching and their Praying upon Friends which they know having been often told Friends cannot receive than which what worse they could obtrude I know not And where they have had strength by numbers they have obtruded these upon Friends under the Penalty of being deprived of their Meeting House if they would not conform to this Imposition And because Friends could not conform thereunto those Troublers have actually shut Friends out of their Meeting-Houses and do yet continue to keep them out thereby depriving Friends of their just Right Therefore when any of those Troublers shall again come to obtrude themselves upon Friends in our Meetings Let them Remember this Again they say The Lord often spared those that are wrong for the sakes of those that are right Rep. We know he hath done so and we desire he may do so still but we leave that to him who best knows to whom and how long to extend that forbearance But let not the Adversaries abuse God's merciful forbearance by continuing in the wrong after that the Lord hath made them sensible that they are wrong They add And 't is our Doctrine Tares should be suffered to grow rather than destroy Wheat Rep. And 't is Christ's Doctrine and his own Exposition of his Parable of the Tares that the Field in which they should be suffered to grow is the World Mat. 13.38 This is a good Argument against Persecution or outward Violence for Religion's sake Men ought not to be killed destroyed pluckt up and rooted out of the World only because they are Tares or a wrong Seed of the Enemies sowing But I wish the Adversaries would speak plainly whether it be their Doctrine that such Tares called by Christ The Children of the wicked One should be suffered to grow in the Church the Garden of God after they are discovered discerned plainly perceived
God to profit withal Betwixt man's having the Gift of God in himself and his Adhering that is joyning and cleaving close unto this heavenly Gift Whereas the Spiritually-minded know not only that the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal according to 1 Cor. 12.7 though too many receive it not but reject and rebel against it but that even of those that have professed to have received it all have not received it to that good end benefit for which it was given namely to profit thereby Neither have all who have had the Gift of God in themselves adhered thereto But many have wholly kickt against it and some who have pretended to adhere to it have instead thereof adhered to its and their own Enemy not to their profit but to their Loss and Ruin and to the Trouble and disquiet of the Church of which they held themselves to be Members Now that the Adversaries have thus wrested the Question shall appear in their own words for after they have without much variation recited the Question and Answer they in their own Answer thereto pag. 2. say That this Question above is weighty is clear for the whole Controversie seems included in it For where the Gift of God is Received to profit withal they have liberty and freedom to chuse or refuse things according as they are perswaded or they have not and all this say they is included in the Question Here they have put in the word received thereby turning the ground of the Question from God's having given to man's having received the Gift of God to profit withal Again say they The Question is whether freedom and Liberty do not extend further than outward things that is Whether it doth not reach to the things of God where the Gift of Gods is Received according to the Question Whenas the word Received is not in the Question Again taking upon them in a conceited humour to turn the Question into a Position or Assertion they say It will follow thus or to this effect that true Liberty and freedom reacheth to the things of God to all that have received the Gift of God to profit withal for such as they do adhere to it have liberty and freedom in the fear of God to chuse c. Now having thus wrested the Question by varying the Terms in which the Author had laid it down Their next work is to Cavil at his Answer which though it answered his Question does not answer theirs at least not to their minds And first I take notice as if they had a mind to play the Criticks and shew some little skill in Pedantry they fall a Word-pecking and Carp at his manner of expressing himself It seems as if they thought him deficient in Grammer and that he understood not Congruity of Speech The beginning of his Answer was This is true in a sense For this they take him up It seems rather say they pag. 2. to take the Question to be an Assertion than a Question in our Iudgment for say they it follows thus That this Question is true in a sense which to us is neither clear nor very proper a Question in some sort being a matter undetermined till affirmed or denyed Surely one would think they might have spared their Censure on another unless they had learn'd to speak with more clearness and better sense themselves How would they be understood that a Question in some sort is a matter undetermined till affirmed and denyed Is it undetermined in some sort and determined in some other sort before it be either affirmed or denyed Or is a Question with them a matter determined so soon as it is affirmed or denyed They have found out sure an easie way of determining Questions if either affirming or denying will determin the matter But to make this pretended Solaecisme upon the Author of the Book they pretend to Answer They abuse his words for they say It follows thus meaning in his Book that this Question is true in a sense But without Question They put in the word Question in that place for it doth not follow so in his Book His Book doth not say This Question is true in a sense But This is true in a sense This the Matter Substance Subject of the Question not the Question which is but a form of Speech but the thing questioned which if They know not how to distinguish They are the less fit to take upon them to correct Others him especially Next I observe they except against the Answer as insufficient They say pag. 2. The Answer if worthy of that Name is slight and evasive no way deserving to be reputed or accepted as a true Answer to this weighty Question Again We find no direct Answer neither directly affirming or denying the Question Again We see the Question is rather avoided than answered All this in one page And with such abusive Slights their Book abounds But in this They do but beat the Air with empty Noise and Clamour roving in Uncertainties and Self-inconsistencies One while they say The Answer is no way deserving to be reputed a true Answer as in pag. 2. Another while they confess It is true in the sense he grants pag. 4. Now 't is not a full Answer pag. 4. Anon 't is Nothing to the purpose p. 6. This befalls them because They go from the plain and simple Truth from the true Light to grope in the dark with their own Guessings Conjectures Conceivings and Suppositions built upon this If and to'ther If from which They as confidently force Conclusions as if their Suppositions were the plainest Positions their Conjectures the clearest Demonstrations Of this Instances may be seen in their 3. and 4. pages where attempting to find out by their If 's whether the Author's Answer be full or nay to the Question They say Either this Question if affirmed is true in a larger sense then he has granted or it 's but true in this sense If true in a larger sense it follows say They but not without another If though If his aim and design as he says was to assert the Truth he has missed his mark This were to suppose it impossible to hit the mark if a Question be true in a larger sense than it is answered Which Supposition no man of sense I suppose will allow of So again a little lower If say they I must not act as I am perswaded then I must act as others are perswaded What necessity is there for that Where lies the must in this case Is there no medium between my not acting as I am perswaded and acting as others are perswaded What if in such a Case I should for a while forbear acting not act at all but humbly wait upon God to receive from him the like Perswasion that my Brethren have that so I also may act with them upon my own perswasion Were there any hurt in this nay were not this a good