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A14227 An ansvver to a challenge made by a Iesuite in Ireland Wherein the iudgement of antiquity in the points questioned is truely delivered, and the noveltie of the now romish doctrine plainly discovered. By Iames Vssher Bishop of Meath. Ussher, James, 1581-1656.; Malone, William, 1586-1656. 1624 (1624) STC 24542; ESTC S118933 526,688 560

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know not when Such for example is that sacrilege of yours whereby you withhold from the people the use of the Cuppe in the Lords Supper as also your doctrine of Indulgences and Purgatorie which they reject and you defend For touching the first Gregorius de Valentia one of your principall Champions confesseth that the use of receiving the Sacrament in one kinde began first in some Churches and grew to be a generall custome in the Latin Church not much before the Councell of Constance in which at last to wit 200 yeres ago this custome was made a law But if you put the question to him as you doe to us What Bishop of Rome did first bring in this custome he giveth you this answer that it began to be used not by the decree of any Bishop but by the very use of the Churches and the consent of the faithfull If you further question with him quando primum vigere coepit ea consuetudo in aliquibus Ecclesijs When first did that custome get footing in some Churches he returneth you for answer Minimé constat it is more then he can tell The like doth Fisher Bishop of Rochester Cardinall Caietan give us to understand of Indulgences that no certaintie can be had what their originall was or by whom they were first brought in Fisher also further addeth concerning Purgatorie that in the ancient Fathers there is either none at all or very rare mention of it that by the Grecians it is not beleeved even to this day that the Latins also not all at once but by little and little received it and that Purgatorie being so lately knowen it is not to be mervailed that in the first times of the Church there was no use of Indulgences seeing these had their beginning after that men for a while had been affrighted with the torments of Purgatorie Out of which confession of the adverse part you may observe 1. What little reason these men have to require us to set down the precise time wherin all their profane novelties were first brought in seeing that this is more then they themselves are able to doe 2. That some of them may come in pedetentim as Fisher acknowledgeth Purgatory did by little and little and by very slow steps which are not so easie to be discerned as fooles be borne in hand they are 3. That it is a fond imagination to suppose that all such changes must be made by some Bishop or any one certaine author whereas it is confessed that some may come in by the tacite consent of manie and grow after into a generall custome the beginning whereof is past mans memorie And as some superstitious usages may draw their originall from the undiscreet devotion of the multitude so some also may be derived from want of devotion in the people and some alterations likewise must be attributed to the verie change of time it selfe Of the one we cannot give a fitter instance then in your private Masse wherein the Priest receiveth the Sacrament alone which Harding fetdheth from no other ground then lacke of devotion of the peoples part When you therefore can tell us in what Popes dayes the people fell from their devotion wee may chance tell you in what Popes dayes your private Masse began An experiment of the other wee may see in the use of the Latin Service in the Churches of Italy France and Spaine For if wee be questioned When that use first beganne there and further demanded Whether the language formerly used in their Liturgie was changed upon a suddaine our answer must be That Latin Service was used in those countries from the beginning but that the Latin tongue at that time was commonly understood of all which afterward by little and little degenerated into those vulgar languages which now are used When you therefore shall be pleased to certifie us in what Popes dayes the Latin tongue was changed into the Italian French and Spanish which we pray you doe for our learning wee will then give you to understand that from that time forward the language not of the Service but of the people was altered Nec enim lingua vulgaris populo subtracta est sed populus ab eà recessit saith Erasmus The vulgar tongue vvas not taken away from the people but the people departed from it If this which I have said will not satisfie you I would wish you call unto your remembrance the answer which Arnobius sometimes gave to a foolish question propounded by the enimies of the Christian faith Nec si nequivero causas vobis exponere cur aliquid fiat illo vel hoc modo continuo sequitur ut infecta fiant quae facta sunt And consider whether I may not returne the like answer unto you If I be not able to declare unto you by what Bishop of Rome and in what Popes daies the simplicitie of the ancient faith was first corrupted it will not presently follow that vvhat vvas done must needs by undone Or rather if you please call to mind the Parable in the Gospel where the kingdome of heaven is likened unto a man vvhich sowed good seede in his field but vvhile men slept his enemy came and sowed Tares among the Wheat and went his vvay These that slept tooke no notice when or by whom the Tares were scattered among the Wheat neither at the first rising did they discerne betwixt the one and the other though they were awake But vvhen the blade vvas sprung up and brought forth fruit then appeared the Tares and then they put the question unto their Master Sir didst not thou sow good seed in thy field from whence then hath it tares Their Master indeed telleth them it was the enemies doing but you could tell them otherwise and come upon them thus You yourselves graunt that the seed which was first sowen in this field was good seed and such as was put there by your Master himselfe If this which you call Tares be no good graine and hath sprung from some other seed then that which was sowen here at first I would faine knowe that mans name who was the sower of it and likewise the time in which it was sowen Now you being not able to shew either the one or the other it must needes be that your eyes here deceive you or if these be tares they are of no enemies but of your Masters owne sowing To let passe the slumbrings of former times wee could tell you of an age wherein men not only slept but also snorted it was if you know it not the tenth from Christ the next neighbour to that wherein Hell broke loose That Vnhappie age as Genebrard and other of your owne Writers terme it exhausted both of men of account for vvit and learning and of vvorthy Princes and Bishops In which there were no famous Writers nor Councells then which if wee will credite Bellarmine there was never age
hath done marveilous things O give thankes unto the Lord for he is good give thankes unto his mother for her mercie endureth for ever Lady despise not my prayse and vouchsafe to accept this Psalter vvhich is dedicated unto thee The Lord sayd unto our Lady sit thou my mother at my right hand They that trust in thee O mother of God shall not feare from the face of the enemie Except our Lady build the house of our heart the building thereof will not continue Blessed are all they who feare our Ladie and blessed are all they who know to doe thy will and thy good pleasure Out of the deepe have I cried unto thee O Ladie Ladie heare my voice Ladie remember David and all that call upon thy name O give thankes unto the Lord because he is good because by his most sweete mother the virgin Mary is his mercie given Blessed be thou O Ladie which teachest thy servants to warre and strengthenest them against the enemie and so the last Psalme is begun with Prayse our Ladie in her Saints prayse her in her vertues and miracles and ended accordingly with Omnis spiritus laudet Dominam nostram Let everie spirit or everie thing that hath breath prayse our Ladie To this we may adioyne the Psalter of the salutations of the Virgin framed by Iohn Peckham archbishop of Canterburie which is not yet printed His preface he beginneth thus Mente concipio laudes perscribere Sanctae Virginis quae nos à carcere Solvit per filium genus in genere Miri vivificans effectus opere and endeth with a prayer to the blessed Virgin that shee would release the sinnes of all those for whom hee prayed and cause both his owne name and theirs to be written in the booke of life Nec non omnibus relaxes crimina Pro quibus supplicans fundo precamina Nostrumque pariter horum nomina Conscribi facias in vitae paginâ Then followeth his first Psalme wherein he prayeth that she would make us to meditate often Gods Law and afterwards to be made blessed in the glorie of Gods kingdome Ave Virgo virginum parens absque pari Sine viri semine digna foecundari Fac nos legem Domini crebró meditari Et in regni gloriâ beatificari His other 149. Psalmes which are fraught with the same kinde of stuffe I passe over But Bernardinus de Senis his boldnesse may not be forgotten who thinketh that God will give him leave to maintaine that the Virgin Marie did more unto him or at least as much as he himselfe did unto all mankinde and that wee may say for our comfort forsooth that in respect of the blessed Virgin whom God himselfe did make notwithstanding God after a sort is more bound unto us than wee are unto him With which absurd and wretched speculation Bernardinus de Busti after him was so well pleased that hee dareth to revive againe this most odious comparison and propose it a fresh in this saucy maner But O most gratefull Virgin didst not thou something to God Didst not thou make him any recompence Truely if it be Lawfull to speake it thou in some respect didst greater things to God than God himselfe did to thee and to all mankinde I will therefore speake that which thou out of thy humilitie hast past in silence For thou onely didst sing He that is mightie hath done to me great things but I doe sing and say that thou hast done greater things to him that is mightie Neyther is that vision much better which the same author reciteth as shewed to S. Francis or as others would have it to his companion Fryar Lion touching the two ladders that reached from earth unto heaven the one redd upon which Christ leaned from whence many fell backward could not ascend the other white upon which the holy Virgin leaned the helpe whereof such as used were by her received with a cheerefull countenance and so with facilitie ascended into heaven Neyther yet that sentence which came first from Anselme and was after him used by Ludolphus Saxo the Carthusian and Chrysostomus à Visitatione the Cistercian Monke that more present reliefe is sometimes found by commemorating the name of Mary then by calling upon the name of our Lord Iesus her onely Sonne which one of our Iesuites is so farre from being ashamed to defend that he dareth to extend it further to the mediation of other Saints also telling us very peremptorily that as our Lord Iesus worketh greater miracles by his Saints then by himself Iohn 14.12 so often he sheweth the force of their intercession more then of his owne All which I doe lay downe thus largely not because I take any delight in rehearsing those things which deserve rather to be buried in everlasting oblivion but first that the world may take notice what kinde of monster is nourished in the Papacie under that strange name of Hyperdulia the bare discoverie whereof I am perswaded will prevaile as much with a minde that is touched with anie zeale of Gods honour as all other arguments and authorities whatsoever secondly that such unstable soules as looke backe unto Sodome and have a lust to returne unto Egypt againe may be advised to looke a little into this sinke and consider with themselves whether the steame that ariseth from thence be not so noysome that it is not to be indured by one that hath any sense left in him of pierie and thirdly that such as be established in the present truth may be thankefull to God for this great mercie vouchsafed unto them and mak● this still one part of their prayers From all Romish Dulîa and Hyperdulîa good Lord deliver us OF IMAGES WIth prayer to Saints our Challenger joyneth the use of holy Images which what it hath beene and still is in the Church of Rome seeing hee hath not beene pleased to declare unto us in particular I hope he will give us leave to learne from others It is the doctrine then of the Romane Church that the Images of Christ and the Saints should with pious Religion be worshipped by Christians saith Zacharias Boverius the Spanish fryar in his late Consultation directed to our most noble Prince Charles the Hope of the Church of England and the future felicitie of the World as even this Balaam himself doth style him The representations of God and of Christ and of Angels and of Saints are not onely painted that they may be shewed as the Cherubims were of old in the Temple but that they may be adored as the frequent use of the Church doth testifie saith Cardinall Cajetan So Thomas Arundell archbishop of Canterbury in his Provinciall Councell helde at Oxford in the yeare 1408. established this Constitution following * From henceforth let it be taught commonly and preached by all that the Crosse and the Image of the Crucifixe and