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enemy_n field_n good_a tare_n 1,044 5 12.5068 5 false
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A14227 An ansvver to a challenge made by a Iesuite in Ireland Wherein the iudgement of antiquity in the points questioned is truely delivered, and the noveltie of the now romish doctrine plainly discovered. By Iames Vssher Bishop of Meath. Ussher, James, 1581-1656.; Malone, William, 1586-1656. 1624 (1624) STC 24542; ESTC S118933 526,688 560

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know not when Such for example is that sacrilege of yours whereby you withhold from the people the use of the Cuppe in the Lords Supper as also your doctrine of Indulgences and Purgatorie which they reject and you defend For touching the first Gregorius de Valentia one of your principall Champions confesseth that the use of receiving the Sacrament in one kinde began first in some Churches and grew to be a generall custome in the Latin Church not much before the Councell of Constance in which at last to wit 200 yeres ago this custome was made a law But if you put the question to him as you doe to us What Bishop of Rome did first bring in this custome he giveth you this answer that it began to be used not by the decree of any Bishop but by the very use of the Churches and the consent of the faithfull If you further question with him quando primum vigere coepit ea consuetudo in aliquibus Ecclesijs When first did that custome get footing in some Churches he returneth you for answer Minimé constat it is more then he can tell The like doth Fisher Bishop of Rochester Cardinall Caietan give us to understand of Indulgences that no certaintie can be had what their originall was or by whom they were first brought in Fisher also further addeth concerning Purgatorie that in the ancient Fathers there is either none at all or very rare mention of it that by the Grecians it is not beleeved even to this day that the Latins also not all at once but by little and little received it and that Purgatorie being so lately knowen it is not to be mervailed that in the first times of the Church there was no use of Indulgences seeing these had their beginning after that men for a while had been affrighted with the torments of Purgatorie Out of which confession of the adverse part you may observe 1. What little reason these men have to require us to set down the precise time wherin all their profane novelties were first brought in seeing that this is more then they themselves are able to doe 2. That some of them may come in pedetentim as Fisher acknowledgeth Purgatory did by little and little and by very slow steps which are not so easie to be discerned as fooles be borne in hand they are 3. That it is a fond imagination to suppose that all such changes must be made by some Bishop or any one certaine author whereas it is confessed that some may come in by the tacite consent of manie and grow after into a generall custome the beginning whereof is past mans memorie And as some superstitious usages may draw their originall from the undiscreet devotion of the multitude so some also may be derived from want of devotion in the people and some alterations likewise must be attributed to the verie change of time it selfe Of the one we cannot give a fitter instance then in your private Masse wherein the Priest receiveth the Sacrament alone which Harding fetdheth from no other ground then lacke of devotion of the peoples part When you therefore can tell us in what Popes dayes the people fell from their devotion wee may chance tell you in what Popes dayes your private Masse began An experiment of the other wee may see in the use of the Latin Service in the Churches of Italy France and Spaine For if wee be questioned When that use first beganne there and further demanded Whether the language formerly used in their Liturgie was changed upon a suddaine our answer must be That Latin Service was used in those countries from the beginning but that the Latin tongue at that time was commonly understood of all which afterward by little and little degenerated into those vulgar languages which now are used When you therefore shall be pleased to certifie us in what Popes dayes the Latin tongue was changed into the Italian French and Spanish which we pray you doe for our learning wee will then give you to understand that from that time forward the language not of the Service but of the people was altered Nec enim lingua vulgaris populo subtracta est sed populus ab eà recessit saith Erasmus The vulgar tongue vvas not taken away from the people but the people departed from it If this which I have said will not satisfie you I would wish you call unto your remembrance the answer which Arnobius sometimes gave to a foolish question propounded by the enimies of the Christian faith Nec si nequivero causas vobis exponere cur aliquid fiat illo vel hoc modo continuo sequitur ut infecta fiant quae facta sunt And consider whether I may not returne the like answer unto you If I be not able to declare unto you by what Bishop of Rome and in what Popes daies the simplicitie of the ancient faith was first corrupted it will not presently follow that vvhat vvas done must needs by undone Or rather if you please call to mind the Parable in the Gospel where the kingdome of heaven is likened unto a man vvhich sowed good seede in his field but vvhile men slept his enemy came and sowed Tares among the Wheat and went his vvay These that slept tooke no notice when or by whom the Tares were scattered among the Wheat neither at the first rising did they discerne betwixt the one and the other though they were awake But vvhen the blade vvas sprung up and brought forth fruit then appeared the Tares and then they put the question unto their Master Sir didst not thou sow good seed in thy field from whence then hath it tares Their Master indeed telleth them it was the enemies doing but you could tell them otherwise and come upon them thus You yourselves graunt that the seed which was first sowen in this field was good seed and such as was put there by your Master himselfe If this which you call Tares be no good graine and hath sprung from some other seed then that which was sowen here at first I would faine knowe that mans name who was the sower of it and likewise the time in which it was sowen Now you being not able to shew either the one or the other it must needes be that your eyes here deceive you or if these be tares they are of no enemies but of your Masters owne sowing To let passe the slumbrings of former times wee could tell you of an age wherein men not only slept but also snorted it was if you know it not the tenth from Christ the next neighbour to that wherein Hell broke loose That Vnhappie age as Genebrard and other of your owne Writers terme it exhausted both of men of account for vvit and learning and of vvorthy Princes and Bishops In which there were no famous Writers nor Councells then which if wee will credite Bellarmine there was never age