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A06346 A treatie of the churche conteining a true discourse, to knowe the true church by, and to discerne it from the Romish church, and all other false assemblies, or counterfet congregations / vvritten by M. Bertrande de Loque ... ; and faithfully translated out of French into English, by T.VV. Loque, Bertrand de.; T. W. 1581 (1581) STC 16812; ESTC S123131 175,246 422

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is not at any time perfecte so long as shee trauelleth and fighteth in this worlde whiche maior I prooue thus First if the Church were without spot in this worlde in vaine hath our Sauiour Christe taught it alwayes to pray Matth. 6.12 forgiue vs our trespasses and sinnes But the Lorde Iesus hath not without good cause giuen vs such doctrine and instruction wherefore it followeth that the Church is not in this worlde without spotte yea rather that shee hath continuall neede alwayes for to praye vnto GOD that shee may bee more and more sanctified and obteyne the forgiuenesse of all her sinnes Secondly those which are with out spot and wrinckle haue nothing to doe with any washing because they haue no neede thereof But the faithfull although they be washed haue notwithstanding need yet of washing still as Iesus Christe himselfe declareth it vnto vs Iohn 13.10 when hee saith Hee that is washed needeth not saue to washe his feete For by the washing of the feete hee meaneth a continuall sanctification It followeth then that the faithful are not in this world without spot 1. Cor. 1.2 Thirdly Saint Paul ceaseth not to adorne and bewtifie the Corinthians with the title of the Church who notwithstanding greeuously abused the holy supper of the Lorde and had amongest them diuisions and partakinges which are not smal faultes yea indeede they were in doubte also touching the resurrectiō of the dead Also he nameth the assembly of the Galathians Galat. 1.2 the Church although that poore people were deceaued by false Prophetes and caried away to an other Gospell contrarie vnto that which hee had preached vnto them These places doe manifestly declare that the Church is neuer so pure and perfect in this world but that it hath always need to be more more purged sanctified which thing S. Paul sheweth yet more plainly openly whē he writeth vnto the Thessalonians For he calleth thē the Church 1. Thes 1.1 1. Thes 5.23 and yet he prayeth vnto God for them that he would sanctifie thē through out True it is that the Nouatians Donatistes and Anabaptistes who doe not agree with vs in this point are not without their replies For first they alledge vnto vs that which S. Paul writeth vnto the Ephesians Ephe. 5.25.26.27 That Iesus Christ gaue himselfe for his Church that he might sanctifie it and cleanse it that he might make it vnto himselfe a glorious Church not hauing spot or wrinckle but that it shoulde be holy without blame But wee want not an aunswere also Saint Paul considereth the Church not in her selfe but in Iesus Christe her heade which shee taketh holde of by faith So shee is saide to bee without wrinckle and vnblameable by reason not of her owne righteousnesse but of Iesus Christes righteousnesse whereof shee is made partaker because it pleased God to impute and reckon the same vnto her for which cause also it is in an other place 1. Cor. 1.30 that Iesus Christe is made of God the father vnto vs wisedome righteousnesse sanctification and redemption Moreouer wee might say that Saint Paul speaketh of sanctification or holinesse promised and which is not yet fully accomplished as though he called saide the Church to bee without spot not that it is so here belowe on the earth but because that one day it shall so bee aboue in heauen Augu. lib. de nuptiis Concupise cap. 34. And after this sorte Saint Augustine vnderstandeth it Iesus Christ saith hee cleanseth his Church by the washing of Christians to make it vnto himselfe without spott or wrinckle not in this world but in the world to come They alledge moreouer that which Saint Iohn saith 1. Ioh. 3.6.9 whosoeuer is borne of God sinneth not Wherevnto I aunswere by a distinction Those that are borne of God that is to say the faithfull sinne not that is to say serue not sinne or rather sinne doth not raigne in them because they do withdraw themselues as much as they can or are inabled from sinne and with all their heart giue themselues to holinesse of life that they may glorifie God And in this sense Saint Iohn taketh it and speaketh it Againe they that are borne of God sinne that is to say can not liue so holily but that oftentimes they stumble and fall into sins For although they be sanctified yet for all that by reason of the reliques and remnauntes of nature corrupted which yet resteth and remaineth in them euery day they turne aside from the righte waye and sinne In this sense S. Iohn ment not that which he saith that whosoeuer is borne of God sinneth not for so he should speak against him selfe hauing before saide If we say we haue no sinne 1. Ioh. 1.8.10 wee deceiue our selues and trueth is not in vs yea wee make God a lyer and his worde is not in vs. So it is then that though there seeme to bee some contrarietie betweene these two to say that we are sinners and sainctes both together yet all agreeth together verie well for euerie man if we consider him in his owne nature according to which he is called the childe of wrath he is a sinner worthie of death and eternall damnation but if we consider him in Iesus Christ as a Christian and faythfull man hee is holy so that he sinneth not that is to say serueth not sinne and his imperfections are hidden and couered because that they are not imputed vnto him and moreouer the Lorde Iesus maketh him partaker of his righteousnesse And so being a sinner in respect of his owne nature he is notwithstanding reputed and accounted holy iust before God But that which we haue hitherto spoken toucheth or concerneth the members of the Church particularlie Wee may also well say touching the Church considered in her owne bodie that it shall neuer here be purged from al filthinesses because that so long as shee shall bee on earth there shall be in her wicked ones mingled with good ones Which thing Iesus Christ hath declared in the Gospell by two similitudes Matth. 13.24.25 c. In the first he saith that the kingdome of heauen that is to say the Church is like vnto a man which sowed good seede in his feeld but while men slept there came his enemie sowed tares amongest the wheate and went his way And when the blade was sprong vp and had brought foorth fruit then appeared the tares also Then came the seruauntes of the housholde and saide vnto him Master sowedst thou not c. and woulde presently haue gone and gathered them vp but the Lorde woulde not suffer them least while they went about to gather the tares they plucked vp also with them the wheate Therefore he willed that they might both growe together vntill the haruest and in the time of haruest the reapers shall gather the tares and binde them in sheaues to burne them but they shal gather the good
corne into the Lords barne Afterwards he expoundeth the saide similitude saying He that soweth the good seede is the sonne of man and the fielde is the world Matt. 13.37 c. the good seede are the children of the kingdome the tares are the children of the wicked and the enimie that soweth them is the diuell the haruest is the end of the world and the reapers be the angels As then saith he the tares are gathered and burned in the fire so shall it be in the end of the world The sonne of man shall send foorth his Angels and they shall gather out of his kingdome all things that offend and them which do iniquitie and shall cast them into a fornace of fire there shall be wayling gnashing of teeth Then shall the iust men shine as the sunne in the kingdome of their father In the second similitude he saith Matt. 13.47.48 That the kingdome of heauen is like vnto a drawe net cast into the sea that gathereth of all kinde of things which when it is full the fishers draw to land on the shoare and put the good by them selues into their vessels and cast the bad away And afterwardes he giueth the exposition thereof So shall it be saith he at the end of the world Matt. 13.49.50 The Angels shall goe foorth and seuer the wicked from amongest the iust and shall cast them into a fornace of fire where shall be wayling and gnashing of teeth By these two similitudes Iesus Christe verie plainely expresseth what shall be the visible state and condition of the Church so long as it shal be on earth that is to say that the wicked shal continually be mingled therein with the good and that in such sorte as the tares are amongest the good wheate in the fieldes and as euill fishes are mingled with the good in the sea whereof followeth that which we haue saide before in the third Chapter to wit that all they which are in the Church are not for al that of the Church And indeede experience hath in all ages shewed the same vnto vs and maketh vs to behold the same as yet euē euery day Cain was the first that defiled the Church of GOD Gene. 4.3 c. although he offered sacrifices in outward shewe as his iust brother Abel did Noah preached vnto those of his time and continuing his exercise a long season some thinke sixe score yeares hardly would his owne housholde beleeue his worde Gene. 7.1 c. so that GOD destroying all the worlde by the floud onely eight persons of the foresaide Noahs housholde were reserued by the meane of the Arke And euen yet of those eight persons with whom GOD had made a newe couenaunt touching the establishing againe of his Churche Ham Gene. 9.22 in his time verie manifestly declared his hypocrisie Matt. 27.3 c. Act. 1.16.17 c. Reue. 2 6. Amongest the twelue Apostles Iudas is found a traitor and vnfaithfull Amongest the seuen Deacons one Nicholas was an heretike at the least if that be true that this Nicholas was one of the seuen Deacons as Clemens Clemens strom lib. 3. Euseb hist eccles lib. 3. cap. 29. Alexandrinus and Eusebius certainely affirme it S. Iohn speaking of Antichristes wherewith the Church was in his time troubled and tormented saith 1. Ioh. 2.19 They went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had bene of vs they would haue continued with vs. And what at this day Howe many hypocrites and great mungrell mastifes are found at this day in the outward Church and are suffered therein Certainely there are verie many which are acknowledged and allowed for members of the Church of whome GOD who beholdeth all mens heartes doth in the meane season iudge otherwise Wherefore the Church euen in this respect is not at any time in the world without wrinkle The fourth point which we must note here is that our sanctification is not performed or wrought all at one time but there are three degrees or steppes thereof to the end that it may be perfect The first degree is during this life when that our Lorde Iesus Christ giueth vs his holy spirite thereby to resist and withstande the world the diuell sinne and our owne flesh to the end that we may loue good thinges and hate euill Herevnto may be applyed that which Saint Paule speaketh of him selfe Rom. 7.22.23 c. writing vnto the Romanes in the seuenth Chapter verse 22.23 The second is after this life when the soule enioieth the presence of Iesus Christ giuing it selfe vnto all holinesse but our other part that is the bodie resting it selfe in the dust without being able to applie it selfe vnto any thing to sanctifie the name of God by The thirde shall be after the last iudgement when being perfectly ioyned with Iesus Christe our head we shall beholde God euen as he is who shall all in all and that after such manner and sorte as Saint Paule saith 1. Cor. 1.30 that Christe is made of God vnto vs wisedome righteousnesse sanctification and redemption Therefore when that our Lord Iesus Christ shall so worke in vs that there shal be no spot Philip. 3.21 1. Ioh. 3.2 but that our verie bodyes shal be fashioned like vnto his glorious bodye and we shall be like vnto him then truely shall our sanctification be accomplished and made perfect which nowe is but as it were begunne in vs. CHAP. XII Whether the Church may erre or no. THis question to wit whether the Church can erre hath bene diuers times tossed and handled for the opening vnfolding whereof we must first striue to knowe after what maner or in what sense the word Church is here to be taken I meane whether we must vnderstand this of the Catholike and vniuersall Church or else of the particular Churches But the controuersie is not in my iudgement of the Catholike Church for we all agree herein that she can not erre as touching faith And indeede howe should she erre seeing that following Iesus Christ her head and her husband she walketh not in darkenesse but in the light of life On the other side it is impossible that all faithfull people vniuersally euen from the first vnto the last should fall into errour for there haue bene alwayes some preserued through the goodnesse and grace of GOD by whome trueth it selfe through other mens naughtinesse brought as it were to nothing or at the least destituted and forsaken hath yet notwithstanding bene restored to her former force and is yet still maintained and preserued Wherefore this question is touching a particular Church Touching which it seemeth good vnto vs in the first place to heare the iudgement and reasons of the Romish Catholikes vpon this that they affirme that the Church so taken can not erre following herein the Nouatians Donatistes and other heretikes And afterwardes we will shewe foorth and put downe our aduise and reasons