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A01335 Tvvo treatises written against the papistes the one being an answere of the Christian Protestant to the proud challenge of a popish Catholicke: the other a confutation of the popish churches doctrine touching purgatory & prayers for the dead: by William Fulke Doctor in diuinitie. Fulke, William, 1538-1589.; Allen, William, 1532-1594. Defense and declaration of the Catholike Churches doctrine, touching purgatory, and prayers for the soules departed.; Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566. Notable discourse. 1577 (1577) STC 11458; ESTC S102742 447,814 588

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whose workes the aduersaries woulde be glad of one likely sentence And whose life and doctrine are so glorious in Gods Church that their owne aduersaries raling at vs aliue yet dare not but with great feare once blemish their names departed Though sometimes it brastithe out in some one of them to their owne miscredit So beutifull is the light of trueth And on the other side howe miserable is their carefull case that followe and defende that doctrine the authors whereof they dare neither acknowledge nor name whome all good men with open mouth boldely doe reprehend and their owne scholars dare not defende Such a glorious maiesty this doctrine of theires beareth that pricketh vp with pryde those that be alyue and blotteth out of honest memorie her doctors that be deade 10 Nay M. Allen though those doctors build some hay or stuble vpon the onely foundation Christ their case is ten thousand times better then yours which build nothing but dirt and donge tempered with hay and stuble vpon no foundation at all except it be the sande and seeke by all meanes to digge vp the onely true foundation of our fayth Iesus Christ making him nothing better then a common person except his bare name and woe may be to such Catholikes as can finde nothing but hay and stuble where such store of precious matter is and the most precious corner stone the foundation of all excellency And happy be those which not regarding the streames of waters that runne through the vaynes of earth but seeking to the onely fountayne of heauenly truth conteyned in the holy scriptures haue certeyne comfort of saluation while they are aliue and sure possession of felicitie with Christ as soone as they are dead yea which dye not at all because they beleue in Christ which is life nor enter into iudgement but passe from death of this body which is temporall vnto life of body and soule which is eternall The first Author of that secte vvhich denieth prayers for the departed is noted his good condicions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kinde of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that secte And that this heresy is euer ioyned as a fit companion to other horrible sectes CAP. XIIII 1 BVt yet because they haue diffamed our practise in praying and offering for the deade by referring it to a later origine then the Apostolike authority and tradition seeing we haue fathered our vsage vpon such as the aduersaries dare not blame we will helpe them to seeke out the fathers of their faithles perswasion lest by the feare and bashfullnesse of their owne scholars they be vnkindly forgotten Mary to finde out these obscure loyterers it will be somewhat painefull because as theeues doe they kepe by wayes and lightly treade not in honest mens pathes For the finding out of recordes for the testimony of our trueth we kepte the day light the high waye of Gods Church All the knowen notable personages in the holy Citye of God offered them selues both to witnesse and proue with vs VVe droue this trueth from our dayes through the middest of that holy communitie which S. Augustine calleth the Citye of God and our aduersaries will not saye otherwise but they were the liuely membres of that happy and heauenly fellowship VVe brought the practise of it to the holy Apostles by plaine accompte we went with the trueth of our cause to the lawe of Moyses from thense by like light to the lawe of nature But nowe for the other sorte we must leaue the cytie of God and the fellowship of these noble personages of doctors Apostles Prophets and Patriarches and seeke on the lifte hande in the other citye which is of Augustine named the citye or common welth as a man might call it of the deuill in which body all practise of mischiefe and origin of error ishuing from that vnhappy heade to the corrupt and deadly limmes thereof is to be founde VVe shall heare of the aduersary perswasion then in the company of Anabaptistes of Arrians of Saduceis of Epicures where so euer the weedes of the common enemies corrupte seede groweth there shall we find amongest breares and brembles this choking weede with all For as the true preachers the Apostles of Christ Iesu did sowe in the beginning of the Christian church which was the springe of the worde of lyfe and trueth amongest other heauenly seedes of true doctrine that profitable practise for the reliefe of such as were hense departed in the sleepe of peace with the decent ordre which euer fithens the Catholicke Church hath obediently followed euen so Inimicus homo superseminauit zizania the common enemy came afterwarde and ouersewe darnell and cockle either for the vtter choking or else for the especiall let of that good seede which the Maister of this fielde by his houshold seruauntes had plentifully sowen before This common aduersarie as our maister him selfe expoundeth it is the Deuill who as he in all other thinges beneficiall to mankinde is a great staye so Christian mens commoditie in this point he notably hindereth by his wicked suggestions and deuilish deuise whereby he prouoketh many vnder the shewe of Gods word or bare name therof for that is the lambes cote which this wyely wolfe boroweth to maske in to be vnkind vnnaturall and with out all godly affection towards their departed frendes The which contrary corrupt seede of false doctrine we right well know came of the sayd aduersary because it was long after ouersowen learning further of Tertullian Id verum esse quodcunque primum id adulterinum quod posterius That to be true that was first taught and that to be false and forged which came latter CAP. XIIII 1 WHen the Apostolike writing can not be shewed it is but the poynt of an heretike to boast of Apostolike tradition So did the Valentinians although their heresie were newe when they were confuted by the Scriptures shrowed them selues vnder the name of traditions as we haue shewed before out of Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 2. And therfore it is but vayne bragging that you promise to seeke out any other fathers of our perswasion then the Apostles of Christ by whose holy writings we neuer refuse to be iudged what if any heretike haue affirmed some thing that is true is truth worse in an heretikes mouth The deuills them selues confessed christ Their confession was true their testimony was refused So if any heretike haue confessed the truth we may receiue the truth and yet reiect his testimony For truth hath testimony of God his word and whether it be affirmed or denyed by the deuill it is all one The high way that you prate of is a bye way for the Scripture is the onely high way to the truth with the guidance of Gods spirite And yet that way which you haue taken hath so many hills and holes woods and thickets that you haue rather flyen ouer it in a dreame and imagination
foughten field betwixt Egfride and Edeldred two princies of our lande it fortuned that a younge gentleman of Egfrides armie shoulde be so greuously wounded that falling downe both him selfe with out sense and in all mens sightes starke deade he was letten lye of the enemies and his body sought with care to be buried of his freindes A brother of his a good priest and Abbate with diligent making search for his body amongest many happed on one that was exceeding like him as a man many easly be deceiued in the alteratiō that streight falleth vpon the soules departure to the whole forme and fashion of the body and bestowed of his loue the duety of obsequies with solemne memorialls for the rest of him whome he tooke to be his brother deceased burying him in his owne monasterie and causing Masse to be done daily for his pardon and soules release But so it fortuned that his brother Huma for so was he called being not all out deade with in foure and twenty houres came reasonably to him selfe againe an● gathering with all some strength rose vp washte him selfe a●● made meanes to come to some freinde or acquaintaunce whe●● he might sallue his sores and close his woundes againe But by lacke of strength to make shifte and by misfortune he fell into his enemies handes and therby the Capitane examined of his estate he denied him selfe to be of name or degree in his country Yet by the likelyhoods that they gathered of his comely demeanure and gentleman like talke which he coulde hardly dissemble they mistrust as it was in deede that he was a man of armes and more then a common souldiar Therefore in hope of good gaine by his raunson they thought good after he was full recouered for feare of his escape to laye yrons vpon him and so to make sure worke But so God wrought that no fetters coulde holde him for euery day once at a certaine houre the bandes brake loose with out force and the man made free The gentleman maruailed at the case him selfe but his kepers and the capitaine were much more astonied thereat and straitely examined him by what cunning or crafte he coulde with such ease set him selfe at libertie and bare him in hande that he vsed characters or letters of some sorcery and wichcrafte with the practise of vnlawfull artes But he aunswered in sadnesse that he was altogether vnskillfull in such thinges Mary que he I haue a brother in my country that is a priest and I knowe certainely that he sayth often Masse for my soule supposing me to be departed and slaine in bataile And if I were in an other life I perceiue my soule by his intercession shoulde be so loosed out of paines as my body is now from bondes The capitaine perceiuing so much and belike in some awe of religion seeing the worke of God to be so straunge soulde him to a Londoner with whome the same thinges happened in his bondes loosing euery daye By which occasion he was licensed to go home to his freindes and procure his ranson for charging him with diuers sortes of surest bandes none coulde salfely holde him And so vpon promesse of his returne or payment of his appointed price he went his wayes and afterwarde truely discharged his credit VVhich done by freindship that he founde in the same country afterward returned to his owne parties to his brothers house to whome when he had vttered all the history of his straunge fortune both of his misery and miraculous relieuing he enquired diligently the whole circumstance with the houre and time of his daily loosing and by conferring together they founde that his bondes brake loose especially at the very iuste time of his celebration for his soule At which times he confessed that he was otherwise in his great aduersities often released also Thus hath that holy writer almost worde for worde and at the ende he addeth this Multi haec a praefato viro audientes accensi sunt in fide ac deuotione pietatis ad orandum vel eleemosinas faciendas vel ad offerendas Domino victimas sacrae oblationis pro ereptione suorum qui de saeculo migrauerant Intellexerunt enim quod Sacrificium salutare ad redemptionem valeret animae corporis sempiternam Hanc mihi historiam etiam hi qui ab ipso viro in quo facta est audiere narrarunt Vnde eam qui aliquando comperi indubitanter historiae nostrae Ecclesiasticae inserendam credidi Many hearing thus much of the party him selfe were wounderfully inflamed with faith and zele to pray to geue almes and to offer sacrifice of the holy oblation for the deliuery of their well-beloued freindes departed out of this life For they vnderstoode that the healthfull sacrifice was auaileable for the redemption of both body and soule euerlastingly And this storie did they that hearde it of the parties owne mouth reporte vnto me VVhere vpon hauing so good proofe I dare be bolde to write it in my ecclesiasticall history And thus much sayth Beda aboute eighte hundred yeares agoe when our nation being but younge in Christianity was fedde in the true belefe by sundry wounderous workes of God. CAP. X. 1 THe examples out of Gregory or Damascene you may spare for your friendes there is none of vs that maketh great accompt of them and yet neither Gregory nor Damascene were so grosse in their errour of prayer for the deade and purgatory as you but where you bragge of such choyse that you can bring enowe out of what writer so euer we like best you shoulde passing well prouide for the credit of your cause and the discredit of ours if out of so great store you would helpe vs with some thing out of Iustinus Martyr Irenaeus Clemens Alexandrinus or any Authenticall writer which liued within one hundreth yeares after the Apostles age But when you beginne with Chrysostoms buriall and yet can not proue that which you pretende all men maye well thinke and they which haue redde the olde writers know you can not reach so high for all your proude promises But you will do that which shall be as good you will shew that we and all nations receiued these vsages of praying and sacrificing for the departed at our first conuersion to the fayth you shall doe a great peece of worke and such as no Papist yet was euer able to doe You shall be a Cardinal if you can doe it yea you shall conuert all the Protestantes to the Catholike Church of Rome Goe too man beginne Take the history of the Acts of the Apostles into your handes in which mention is made of the conuersion of many nations to Christes faith shew that the vsage of praying sacrifycing for the dead was receiued of them or any of them Come of quickely or all the worlde will saye you are but a prating merchant But you will beginne with the conuersion of our nation Goe to take Gildas into your hande which