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A40102 A vindication of the Friendly conference, between a minister and a parishioner of his inclining unto Quakerism, &c. from the exceptions of Thomas Ellwood, in his pretended answer to the said conference / by the same author. Fowler, Edward, 1632-1714.; Ellwood, Thomas, 1639-1713. 1678 (1678) Wing F1729; ESTC R20275 188,159 354

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that if Christians be watchful and use God's Grace aright they shall not be mortally wounded in the Battel but gain ground of the Enemy more and more and get the upper hand in this life The House of Saul in them as I may so speak shall grow weaker and weaker and the House of David shall grow stronger and stronger and they shall be absolute Conquerors at the last We do not deny but that Christians may and must get a comfortable conquest over their Corruptions and proceed forwards towards a total overthrow And this is encouragement sufficient that if they be faithful they shall daily be on the winning and prevailing hand as men in wrestling with the distempers of their Bodies are not discouraged if they know they may daily get ground of them and arrive at a comfortable State of health though they know they can never arrive at the most perfect State of health in this life A Scholar is not discouraged in his Studies though be knows he can never be free from all ignorance yet because he may make a very great progress in Learning and daily be on the improving hand he seeketh as much learning as he can attain with a comfortable vigour and industry A Christian may much more comfortably pursue Perfection because he is assured he shall one day compass it that is in Heaven There it is where we shall find our selves s●…ved to the uttermost according to Heb. 7. 25 which is absurdly applied by the Quaker p. 96. to this present State So that we may comfortably labour after such acquests and perfections as are not attainable here below because our growing endeavours here shall be rewarded with those perfections hereafter Witness the Apostles who pressed forward towards the Mark and to attain the Resurrection of the dead c. And who seeketh not to grow to a State of Manhood in Divine knowledge though that which is perfect cometh not in our present State here where we know but in part 1 Cor. 13. 9 c Moreover it is themost pressing encouragement that can be exprest to Christians in this life to their Duty and assault their Spiritual Enemies with all their might and in that vigour to abound more and more when they are told that they shall not only receive the Prize an Incorruptible Crown of Glory but also an higher degree of Glory according to the higher degrees of their increasing vi●…tues and their growing valour and holy ●…ortitude in this life 1 Cor. 15. 41. Par. But it is in God's Power to free men wholly from sin here And to say that a Man cannot be perfectly cured of sin in this life is to reflect upon the Ability of the Physician at this rate T. E. argues p. 86. Min. We do not question God's Power but His Will in this matter because we do not find any promise for us to expect that He should make use of his Omnipotence to this purpose Hear what Tertullian answers to an old Heretick who made this very objection verily nothing is difficult to God but if we shall so abruptly apply this Maxime to all our own presumptions we may feign what we will of the Almighty as if he had done it because he can do it God is the Physician of our Bodies as well as of our Souls And yet it do's not reflect upon His Ability at all that we are troubled with many Bodily Diseases Only it shews that we are not to enjoy our perfect health and happiness here on Earth thus our Saviour cured no diseased Bodies to an Immortal State exempt from all bodily infirmity in that they dyed after notwithstanding Par. I confess you never pleaded that the Enemy should overcome as T. E. falsly suggests p. 88 89. But he reflects upon your saying I have a false and treacherous heart p. 90. and makes it an absurdity to suppose by that saying that a Regenerate man hath such an heart p. 91. Min. Solomon saith Prov. 28. 26. He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool Now that which is not to be trusted hath a least some degrees of falshood remainning in it Solomon says elsewhere Keep thy heart with all diligence And our Lord bids us Watch and pray c. Now surely that which has need of so much keeping and watching is not to be trusted without it otherwise it would not need it From this disease we shall not be wholly free till in Body and Soul we become immortal saith St. Augustine And all orthodox Christians did ever hold the Flesh and its inclinations though in some degrees mortified to remain even in regenerate men Every Man has Flesh in him opposed to the Spirit to keep him in exercise in this State of Trial as is evident not only by Gal. 5. 17. but by the experience of all truly humble Christians who will abhor all presumptuous boastings while they find that though the Spirit be willing yet the flesh is weak though the Spirit be sincere yet the flesh is treacherous because saith the Apostle these are contrary the one to the other And the fleshly part in Man is in the Holy Scripture frequently called the Heart so that T. E. had no reason to fall so rigidly upon this passage in the Conference Par. I will only mind you of one conclusion which he draws from Rom. 8. 1. There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Iesus c. If there be no condemnation to them says he there is no sin committed by them for wheresoever there is sin there is also condemnation p. 97. Min. A strange Conclusion indeed which if true would damn T. E. and all mankind This is Socinianism in the highest degree What No redemption no pardon for Penitents Has Christ's death done no good to the avoiding of Condemnation then wo be to all the World But T. E. has found a better way to Heaven viz. by being so perfectly free from sin that God cannot justly condemn him And hence in this whole Chapter he avoids all mention of Christ's Merits and Satisfaction and of Remission of sins c. Laying the foundation of his Title to Heaven upon a perfect freedom from sin in this life p. 92. The Popish Doctrine of Merits is short of this which takes in Christ's Merits to their own as giving value to them but T. E. being in a greater degreee ignorant of God's Righteousness goes about to establish his own Rom. 10. 3. But let him know if this be his opinion that a possibility of not sinning will not serve his turn but an actual and total freedom from it If he commit but the least sin he must be condemned according to his own Position For wheresoever there is sin says he there is also condemnation God grant that he may not be dealt with according to the measures of his own Principles but that he may rather see his error to his Conversion than feel the sad effect of it to his Condemnation The
Calling God to witness and variable arbitrary Ceremonies of expressing an Oath But the Oath it self you must understand is in reference to Truth the Confirmation of it Heb. 6. 16. not a mode nor ceremony of speaking it As a vow is a Confirmation of virginity and neither a Ceremony nor a mode thereof But among all these which he has given us as modes or ways of expressing Truth he has not shewed us which of all these is an Oath Par. He tells us an Oath is made up out of them p. 119. Min. He cannot mean that it is made up of them all conjunct For the first of these viz. a bare single Affirmation being single excludes all the rest The second viz. an Additional Asseveraton stops there and goes no further And those various Ceremonies of putting the Hand under the Thigh lifting it up to Heaven and the rest cannot be supposed to have ever been used together in the same Oath therefore an Oath cannot be made up of all these conjunct If so then it can be but made up of some of them but T. E. has not told us which of them he meant neither what mode of speaking Truth an Oath is nor of what modes it is made up Par. But T. E. has one scruple which troubles him often to which I pray answer once for al●… Consider says he now I pray What act of Natural Religion is that which the more truly Christian men become the less need they have of it And here he thinks he has Bishop Gauden of his side Who lays the necessity of Oaths upon mens evil manners Yea he says You confess as much yourself Which as he thinks plainly shews that an Oath is not an Act of Natural Religion p. 120 121. Min. That evil manners make Oaths more necessary I did and still do consess but all T. E's inferences from thence rely on this false and rotten foundation That no acts of Natural Religion can be founded upon mens evil manners Repentance is an act of Natural Religion yet the more truly Christian men become and the more free from sin the less need they have of it But here in this passage of T. E's we must distinguish between him that needs an Oath and him that takes it for the Holiest man may need a bad mans Oath to assure his testimony c. Ellwood confesses that Iustice is an Act of Natural Religion p. 118 and one part of it is called Distributive which in all its Penal Acts depends wholly upon the ill manners of Men as much as Oaths The like may be said of Mercy as to that part of it which forgives injuries c. And yet the more truly Christian men become the less need there would be of either of these Yea St. Paul says concerning the Law that it is not made for a righteous man 1 Tim. 1. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 says Demonax in Lucian And Constantius the Emperor If it were possible all men could be Philosophers there would be no need of Compulsion by Laws for that which now they forbear out of Fear they would then hate out of Iudgment And much more I might cite to this purpose but shall I therefore argue from hence that Justice and Mercy c. are no moral virtues Or that Oaths like many other good Moral Acts and Acts of Natural Religion some in their own Nature some in their immediate ends are nothing else but Remedies against evil Especially seeing T. E. himself p. 118. calls both these viz. doing Iustice and shewing Mercy Moral and eternal Precepts Why then should he here exclude a duly circumstantiated Oath which in its primary designation is an Act of Justice as I told you in the Conference Par. But your second Proposition That an Oath is an Act of necessary justice and charity towards men and that in order to the ending of strife by Evidence T. E. answers that Evidence is necessary but not an Oath for Evidence may be given by a plain affirmation c. And that an Oath is therefore superfluous p. 122. Min. I answer that a bare Affirmation indeed is an Evidence but not so well assured And he wilfully passes by the Answer I gave you to this in the Conference which methinks might satisfie a Reasonable man viz. That Conscience do's not dread all sins alike c. and that multitudes who fear not a Lye yet do dread the solemnity of an Oath and the horrour of Perjury In opposing this he opposeth himself for he seems to grant it pag. 119. However he opposeth common sense for all men are more apt to believe those that are upon their Oaths than if they were not Par. But he says that you must either deny that there is in any man that truth which may make his bare testimony of sufficient credit or yield that there are some men from whom there is no need at all of an Oath p. 124. Min. His consequence is not good I grant there are some men whose reputation may give great credit to their bare testimony But in a case where my life credit or estate is at stake such an one seeing he is not infallible must not take it ill that I require the utmost assurance that may be had viz. his Oath for I see his fact but not his heart By what certain mark shall we knowmens Integrity And though some men may be satisfied concerning this or that mans veracity yet others who may be concern'd in his Testimony may not be so And if some men be believed in publick Evidence without an Oath others who are privy to their own Integrity may censure this as partiality if their Evidences be not so taken also However ill disposed men will readily make it occasion of censure and Contention And though I say not All Oaths are infallible yet this I say that they are the highest and best security we can have in this World and higher assurances we must not expect Par. He abuses you also for saying in the Prophet Darid's words Psal. 116. All men are Lyars p. 124. And tells us that David indeed in his great Affliction let such an expression drop but he quickly recalled himself and confest it was spoken in haste Haste I perceive he takes for rashness and therefore says You catcht up the word at a venture ibid. Min. He has done so I am sure and has accused me here as rashly as he fancies David accused all Mankind David said it in his haste that is when Saul was in pursuit of him in fugâ in his flight saith Gejerus and Dr. Hammond on the place When he was in haste that is hotly pursued by his Enemies he then sound there was no Truth in man and therefore must rely on God and not on the Arm of flesh But suppose David had been guilty of this imperfection and had spoken in haste according to Ellwood's sense Was St. Paul in haste too when he said Let God be