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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A56638 A continuation of the Friendly debate by the same author. Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707.; Wild, Robert, 1609-1679.; Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707. Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist. 1669 (1669) Wing P779; ESTC R7195 171,973 266

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instructing posterity in any true wisdom that you would have them think the greatest happiness we can next desire is to see the still Nation turn'd to war and blood The old saying was that if things were to be done twice all would be wise but you N. C. Pray leave off your old sayings We do not understand matters of Policy and human Wisdom but in the things of God sure you will not deny us to have a spirit of discerning more than other folk C. In the Revelation you mean and the ancient Prophecies In Witnessing-work and the work of the Generation In which indeed you have discovered a marvellous skill and shown that you can see as far you will needs have it farther into a Milstone than other men N. C. I am sufficiently convinced that we know no more of those secrets than you But there are a great many other you know beside those in which it was ever thought we were well seen C. Now perhaps I guess at you meaning You have great skill in expounding the Works of Providence though not in interpreting Prophecies And can give the reason of those misfortunes which befall some particular persons contrary to the express sentence of our Saviour Luk. 13. N. C. Those very words of our Saviour deterr us from passing rash Censures C. Do they so How came Mr. Vicars then professedly to handle this Argument and not only tell stories of Gods hand upon Malignants but expresly affirm Looking glass for Malignants Or Gods hand against God-haters this was a direct judgment of the Lord for desperate Malignancy and that a clear evidence of Gods undoubted indignation And now how came Mr. John White to license this desperate Book but that you thought you might do any thing to promote the cause because it was the cause of God This makes you still compose Prophecies to amuse the credulous and fill the Nation with the noise of Prodigies to set the timorous into a fit of Trembling When your troubled imaginations present you with a throng of dismal thoughts then you thunder out judgment against us and when any unusual thing befalls any of us then you instantly cry out See the hand of God! Behold how the Lord plagues them for our sakes You know I do not lye There are two or three whole Books writ since the King's return that will witness against you if you should gainsay me And so would Mr. Vicars who hath nothing to affrighten Neuters withal but such tales as this that a certain Malignant being filled with terrors on his death-bed repented of his crime obtain'd assurance of Pardon from the Lord saw Christ himself in a Vision who told him he had a cause on earth and that the Parliament of England defended it and shortly none of those wicked Ministers that had mislead Gods people should be left among them N. C. I renounce all those Books and hate that the cause should be served with such stories of Gods judgments C. I wish it be because Christ taught you better and not meerly because experience hath a little instructed you that this weapon may be turn'd against you and wound your side as well as ours I my self could tell you strange but true Misfortunes that have besaln some of your way which I will not interpret to the justifying of our cause or the condemning yours I will only remember how you were wont to clamor if any man took notice of unusual calamities upon any of you and to cry Blasphemy Blasphemy Though you were so prone to cry Providence Providence when the like betided any of us Mr. W. Bridges for instance when the converted Gentleman spoke of some remarkable strokes upon three great Persons Answer to Loyal Convert p. 12. whose names I will not so much as mention replyed in a great passion Surely were not prophaneness and blasphemy as toyes and trifles among you you durst not speak much less print such blasphemies as these Solomon saith that all things fall alike to all and the same condition in regard of outward things is to the just as to the wicked As is the good so is the sinner and he that sweareth as he that feareth an Oath There is one event to All. For my part I embrace this Doctrine with all my Soul for a greater than Solomon hath taught me not to construe events according to my own fancy and as will best promote and justifie my opinion Only I wish you would not alter your mind when the persons are altered and make one rule for us and another for your selves N. C. No. You and I are well agreed in this C. Thank you for nothing When you see that which you took to be a sharp sword prove but a wooden Dagger you throw it away Such is the great wisdom and knowledg you brag of You first furiously lay about you not regarding whether you hit friend or foe and when you have hurt both alike then you repent and say you will do so no more I pray God you be as good as your word But I much fear you will prove like King Saul who when he heard David was in Keilah said Now God hath delivered him into my hands for he is shut in a City that hath Gates and Barrs And though he saw he was deceived yet grew never a whit the wiser but when his Enemy was in a New strait concluded again that God had intrapped him and would not let him escape his Vengeance According to the old saying They that have forward desires fall into Dreams although they do not sleep N. C. We have done I assure you with expounding the meaning of Gods Providence And shall not pry any more into his hidden Counsels C. Very good What piece of knowledg then have you to brag of more than others Unless you mean some secrets which you keep to your selves Special and extraordinary Excitations and Christian Inspirations to make a Reformation without the calling of the Supream Magistrate as Mr. Saltmarsh's words are An inward call from God giving you leave to break his Law or as Mr. Bridge expresses it to make a change but not in a legal way This I confess is a Trick but no such Mystery a new device but no great Secret There is none of us all but can easily learn it and that we do not is not because we have not so much Wit but because we have more Conscience N. C. No body ever pretended to such knowledg C. Yes but there did Mr. Saltmarsh confesses that the early setting forth of private men in the work of Reformation is apt to exceed to a tumultuous motion Yet for all that he would not put them so far behind as that they should lie Animad v. on Mr. Fullers Serm. dedicated to the Assembly like the Lame and Diseased at the Pool of B. thesda waiting till a Supreme Power come among them No there are many publick ingagements which they are capable of and which Providence