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A18003 A discourse, concerning two diuine positions The first [ef]fectually concluding, that the soules of the faithfull fathers, deceased before Christ, went immediately to heauen. The second sufficientlye setting foorth vnto vs Christians, what we are to conceiue, touching the descension of our Sauiour Christ into hell: publiquely disputed at a commencement in Cambridge, anno Domini 1552. Purposely written at the first by way of a confutation, against a booke of Richard Smith of Oxford, D. of Diuinity, entitled a Refutation, imprinted 1562, & published against Iohn Caluin, & C. Carlile: the title wherof appeareth in ye 17. page. And now first published by the said Christopher Carlile, 1582. Carlile, Christopher, d. 1588? 1582 (1582) STC 4654; ESTC S107537 141,619 356

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liued but they were not ●…n Hell Ergo neither this fyre nor ●…lague was in Hell for it touched ●…he liuing and not the dead Anna the mother of Samuel in her song sayth that it is the Lord that killeth and maketh aliue that bringeth downe to the graue and ●…ayseth vp I maruell why they y ● translated the Bible at Geneua doo translate Sheol the graue in this place a little before Hell It is God that killeth and reuiueth that bringeth to deathe ●…r to the graue ●…r to deaths doore restoreth health againe If hée should bringe downe into Hel hee coulde not rayse them vp againe because y ● in Hell there is no redemption This place is vnderstanded of that place or of that miserye out of the which GOD canne ray●… manne vp but out of Hell he ray●… seth none therefore wee muste vn●… derstand it of the Graue Deathe misery out of the which he hath●… and doth deliuer many The same sense is in other woord●… in Deuteronomy 32. cap. verse 39. I kill and giue life I wounde an●… make hole And in Toby and in ●… booke of Wisdome For thou haste●… the power of life and deathe an●… leadest downe into the gates of hell and bringest vp againe The old translation doth translat●… Vnto the gates of deathe and 〈◊〉 they take Hades for death not fo●… hel as y e english doth As the cloud●… saith Iob vanisheth away so he tha●… goeth downe to the graue commeth vp no more Thus much Iob. wherby we vnderstand that a man being layd in the graue shall not rise ti●… y ● last day Then shall he rise again Iob was in like perplexitye and 〈◊〉 the like misery in the 14. chapter 〈◊〉 therefore desireth to be layd in 〈◊〉 graue or in some place vnder 〈◊〉 earth that therby he might es●…e all miseries ●…ope saith Iob for no ease no re●…se of my payne no remedye all ●…y hope is gone I hope for no●…nge but the graue my breathe is ●…rrupted my bowells consumed ●…y bones ake my dayes are spente ●…ely the graue tarieth for me ●…ere is in this first verse of the 17. ●…apter Chebar put for Sheol there 〈◊〉 Sheol defined Iob complaineth that the wicked ●…e without paine griefe go to ●…eathe and graue as it weere in a ●…eete slomber Thus dothe Munster Vatablus ●…o Iude Pellicane and Oecolampadius translate this word Sheol ●…nd the Gréeke Interpretors haue ●…he same sense and the 32. verse ●…athe Lecabaroth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 72. ●…nterpretors the graues neither is ●…here any rest in hell Iob declaring the power of 〈◊〉 in creating the world his pr●… ence in foreseing his spirit in 〈◊〉 shing his wisdome in ordering ●… hid goodnes in preseruing say●… neither the graue neither y e 〈◊〉 ter of the grounde is hidde from eyes And here haue they transl●… Sheol Hell against reason aga●… the nature of the word against propertie of the tongue and aga●… the meaning of the holy Ghost By the worde Abadon the 〈◊〉 brues vnderstande whatsoeuer conteyned in the earthe which open to the eyes of the Lord. I woulde rather vnderstande of Gods power wherby he is 〈◊〉 to rayse our bodyes putrified the Graues and cleane consu●… to dust Dauid being either ●…ore vexed conscience because of his acte ●… fence in causing Vrias to be sla●… and taking his wife Bersaba or 〈◊〉 ing sicke in bodie or afflicted 〈◊〉 enemies desireth God that he ●…ight liue and continewe a tyme healthe that he mighte be wayle 〈◊〉 acte repente with teares con●…e his faulte entreat for mercy ●…e God with humilitie obtayne ●…geuenes because saith he I 〈◊〉 perswaded that no man in the ●…aue canne praise thee none after ●…eathe canne aske forgiuenes paci●… thine indignation nor to haue ●…y hope of saluation Whersoeuer ●…e tree falleth there it lyeth The graue saith Ezechias kinge 〈◊〉 Iuda cannot confesse thee ●…eath cannot praise thee they that ●…e downe into the pitte canne not ●…ope nor be able to shew thy truth ●…mbros de bono mortis c. 2. Cyprianus ●…tra Demetri tractat ●… Hysichius lib. ●… in Leu. cap. 19. The same woordes in a manner the same sense is in Psal. 115. 17. ●…reacher 9 10. Steuchus and 〈◊〉 Romish Catholiques expounde ●…his place as I do in all poyntes Dauid triumphing that he had 〈◊〉 led Golias and giuing god tha●… therefore wisheth or rather is 〈◊〉 perswaded that god would turne●… the wicked into their graues suc●… were gods enemies his as y e P●… listin es Ammonites Moabi●… Dauid did wishe his enemies to●… taken away but not their soules●… hell he wished deathe but not 〈◊〉 nation It had bene against charity to h●… wished their soules in hell Neith●… is Sheol ioyned in anye place w●… the immortall soule whiche ne●… dieth but alwayes with the body which dieth and is buried in Sheo●… in the earth and graue Sheol is alwayes spoken of the 〈◊〉 dy as we see in the swalowing 〈◊〉 of Dathan Core Abiron 〈◊〉 went downe quicke into y e earthe euen into Sheol which is though●… to be hell of the ignorant describ●… of the obstinate beloued of y e simple commonly receiued of y e papistes ●…hy dothe the greatest Bible and ●…he Bible printed at Geneua translate Sheol the graue in the 6. Psal. ●…nd here hell Why did they not ●…nsider that the woordes were all ●…ne the sense all one the phrase all ●…ne Why doe they in some place ●…iue the right signification and in ●…ther detort it from the right sense Why doe wee loue darkenes more then lighte falshoode moore then ●…ruth Why do we prefer dreames ●…ables tales and old custome before the right vnderstanding of the scripture If Sheol be onely proper to y e body which soroweth dieth and is buried and applied to no other thing why doe they not translate it in all places alike Dauid being deliuered from the tiranny of Saul and out of the hands of all his ennemies read 2. of the Kinges 22. verse ●… firste thankethe god and secondly telleth howe that he had escaped them The sorrowes of deathe compassed me He meaned Saul and his men who compassed Dauid and his men round about to take them Must not he be sorrowfull that was in daunger of his ennemies that had muche to doe to escape deathe and the tyranny of Saule And the floudes of wickednes made me afraid By floudes is meaned y ● armie of Saul which Saul is called here Belial a wicked and cursed man without the feare God without mercy or grace fierce cruell furious the very childe of perdition therefore called Belial The nexte verse folowing is all one with this The sorrowes of the graue haue compassed me about The sorrowes of the graue and
the snares of death as foloweth in y ● same 5. verse are al one and also y ● gates of death Ps. 107. 18. which is no more but death it selfe the feare of death who doth not feare y e graue abhorre death and deteste miserie The sense is this Dauid thoughte himselfe to be at deathes doore to be nere his graue when he sawe Saul his adherents so narrowly persecute him And therfore the Chaldee paraphrast translateth the Hebrue word The company of the wicked compassed me and the armed men and so dothe the same paraphraste turne the same Hebrue word in Ps. 119. 63. Hierome translateth it in y e 2. of the Kinges 22. chapter verse 5. the coardes Is it credible that Dauid would say that the coardes of Hell should compasse him are ther coardes in Hell Is Hell a materiall place and corporall or a place spirituall could the soule be bound with coardes rather the body is so laid in the graue bound coards Was Dauid in Hell when he thus ●…omplayned Would Dauid make mention of Hell where hee neuer entended to dwell Coulde hee goe to Hell whome GOD had elected and also predestinated to heauen Whom God had chosen accordinge to his hartes desire Was Dauid so vnfaithfull that h●… coulde dreame of hell when as hee with an vnfained faith committed his Soule to the handes of God to bee caried into felicity to his custody to bee defended from sathan and Hell As CHRIST did and after him saint Stephan Nether is the hande of God anye thinge els but a sure protection agaynste the enemye a defence from the wicked and in this place that Felicitye which God prepared from euerlasting for his electe Dauid being Deliuered from his enemies as it is in the firste verse of the 30. Psalme giuethe GOD thankes and also for his healthe whiche hee had recouered And therefore saith O Lorde I thanke thee that thou hast deliuered me frō the graue from them that descēde into the pit●… meaning the graue this place also haue they hetherto corrupted depraued the sence obscured the truthe deceyued the ignorant and supplanted the Simple for it is Sheol which they translate hell The geneua bible hathe this Thow haste brought vp my soule out of the graue And the greateste byble Thou haste raysed my soule vp from the graue What a translation is this to say that the Soule is enclosed in the graue and buried with the bodye whiche is an impietye to Imagine For the soule dyethe not it liu●…the alwaye nether is it buried for that is the body nether rysethe it oute of the graue as they say but out of the bodye it ascendeth into heauen and at the last day shall returne to the body Wherefore ●…f necessity they should haue translated Nephes the bodye which dyeth and is buried of the whiche worde I will Discourse after that I haue made an ende of Sheol Which two words appertaine only to the body therefore comonly●… ioyned together to mortalitye neither of them to immortallity in any Canonicall booke of the old T●…stament as I suppose Sheol may be taken for y e disease and sicknes out of the which he was deliuered because oftentimes death graue folow after sicknes Dauid being molested with his enemies as with Saul with Sauls soldiours with the Philistines and others wisheth that his enemies might be conquered dispersed and brought to confusion to death to y ● graue Neither was Dauid so vnmercifull in his praier so cruell in his petition so vncharitable in his affection so enuious in his anger that he would wish their damnatiō but rather that they might repent returne to mercy and be saued Where Dauid inueigheth against them that truste to their treasure glory in their goodes triumphe in their territories affecting honor dignity saith that they shall not continue but dye and be put in a pit like shéepe and be laied in the grounde in a ditche graue or pit and this is Sheol Are ther any shepe buried in hell Notwithstanding sayth y ● 14. verse that both the godly vngodly shall dye as concerning their bodies be layed in a pit or hole or graue yet when the righteous shall rise to felicity and the vnrighteous to miserie w t their bodies they shall rise Therefore saith Dauid I am perswaded that God will redeeme mee from the hand of the graue will receiue me to himselfe though my body consume in the graue as the bodies of the wicked do but by and by after deathe hee will receiue my soule and at the resurrection bothe bodie and soule And so doth Lacac signify sometime as I haue noted before The godly in the laste daye shall triumphe ouer the wicked who per secuted them in this life And that is meaned by the Morning in the. 14 verse Iob declareth these verses plainlye in these words when the ryche man slepeth that is to say dyeth he shall not be gathered to his fathers that is to those his Fathers who were Faithfull whiche were and are in heauen but shalbe tossed and afflicted miserably Of the gathering to the fathers I haue spoken before and likewise noted largely vpon genesis 49. In y e 49. Psal. verses 14. 15. Sheol is thrise for y ● graue or pitas Felix also trans lateth Nether is it probable that there are any shepe in hell but the text sayth that they are there where the shepe are the shepe ●…aye not in hell but in some pit or ditche as Felix translateth or in the graue as it is in y e bible printed at Geneua The chalde paraphrast turneth and beforteth all to another sense saying that the wicked killed and murthered the iust like shepe Omitting the morning wherby is vnderstandthe resurrection in the Fourtenthe verse Dauid inueiheth against his familyar frende who was a reuolte and a traitore whose name was Achitophel 2. of the kinges 15. verse 12. cap 19. verse 21. and cap. 17. verse ●… Lyra vnderstandeth it of the inha●…ytors of Ceile 1. of the kinges 23. Dauid wisheth th●…t Achitophel his complices might go quicke into their graues be swallowed vp ●…s Chore ●…athan and Abiron were ●…ombers 19. In Hell there are no bodyes wherefore Sheol muste nedes be vnderstanded the graue and earthe as the 23. verse of the same Psalme declarethe manyfestl●…e Sheol signifieth the graue alwayes and Dauid spake as we do in englishe when we set our Children vnapte or vnthriftes or any oth●… vngratious person we will wist that he were in his graue that h●… were dead that he were layd in th●… grounde that he were as farre v●… the earthe as he is aboue 〈◊〉 that the soule were saued And Dauid was as charitable a●… we are When Dauid was in extream●… danger in so muche that Saul
Wher●… Adam sayth y ● Caua is flesh of hi●… flesh and bone of his bones signifying in a mistery Christ his cōgregation for sayth Paule we are ●…bers of his bodye of his fleshe an●… of his bones For this cause shall ●… man leaue father and mother an●… shall be ioyned vnto his wyfe an●… they two shall be made one fleshe this ys a great secreate but I speak●… of Christ and his churche For as Isha whiche is the woman is deriued of Ish which is the man declaringe a mutuall societye th●… ys betwene man and wyfe whi●… in a misterye figurethe Christ and his congregation of whome Christians are deriued as the woman from man euen so and in lyke manner the churche which are the true Christians indeed are deriued of Christ the heade thereof Tobias saith we are the progeny of God loke for the life which god giueth to y e iuste by liberalitye almes wee shall see god face to face for it deliuereth frō death purgeth sin giueth life euerlastinge Also Dauid being in daūger of his enemies or in daūger of deathe by sicknes cōmēdeth his spirit vnto god y ● had redemed him whē as Christ had not thē w t his patible body redemed hī yet he said he had redemed him whē as it was 500 yeare before his passiō Neither would he haue cōmēded his soule vnto god if he had knowne y ● god would haue sent yt into Hell CHRIST approued this Sentence beinge vppon the crosse sainge father into thy handes I cōmit my spirit But yf some shuld here obiect as I doubt not but they wil saye y e for al y e Christes soule went not straighte vnto heauen before he had made his voiage vnto hell there to visite and fetche out his old frindes al the space that the soule was absent from the body which was three dayes yet I dout not but they shall be compelled to confesse thinke the contrary euen by the words of S Steuen who suffe red after Christ a yeare or there aboute vsed y e very same wordes which Dauid and Christ did commendinge his spirite vnto God as they did And if they graunt that he ascended streyght way than must they graunt the same vnto the other who vsed all one scripture the scrip ture is no Shipmans hose neither is it partiall but like effectuall to all beleuers Dauid committed his soule into the handes of god gods handes is euerlasting ioy and felicitie as it appereth by Salomon who saythe that the soules of the iust are in the hands of god which is proued in the boke of wisdome Also in the boke called the preacher he constantly affirmeth the body to goe to the grounde and the spirite or soule to returne vnto god that gaue it who soeuer shall reade the seconde boke of Machabeus shal ap parantly perceue by the wordes of the seuenth and last brother spoken vnto Antiochus y ● their soules had rest and ioy after their martirdome saing Doe not reioyce o most cursed Autiochus nether imagine that thou canst escape the iust iudgment of God I assure thee my brethrene here haue suffered a little payne but now they are come into the heauenly couenaunte of euerlastinge life Esdras seing an innumerable multitude praysing God asked the aungell what they were who answered that they were such as had put of their mortal coates and put on their immortall and the yonge mā who did set crownes vpon their heads gaue thē palms in their hādes was y e sonne of god christe thē not being incarnate nor borne god speaking in Esa. to the people miserably opprest sayth vnto thē enter into my Houses and Chambers shut the dores to you for a while vntil this tirany be past which chābers houses the Latins do vnderstād to be pleasaūt ioyfull places prepared for the electe So doe the grekes also The like is spokē vnto Daniel in these words go thou thy way departe vnto the ende of the world rest thou in thy lot that ys among the sayntes vntil thou shalt rise againe at the last day Also the Angel spake vnto Iosua 400. yeres before Christs cōing in y e flesh on this wise If y u shalt ob serue my Lawes and Commaundementes I shal place the among those Angels whō y u seest stāde here who as it is like were nether in hell nor in Limbus Moses Helias were w t Christ in y ● moūt it is not licke y ● they did ascēd frō h●…l or Limbus to come accōpāy Christ but rather to descēd frō heauē Simeō reding y ● Prophete Esaie y ● Christ should be borne of a virgine and maruelinge how it should cōe to passe an angel said vnto him y u shalt se thy sauiou●… ere y u dost depart And whē Christ was presēted in the tēple Simeon toke him in his armes saide now sufferest y u thy seruant to depart in peace according to thy worde c. to departe in peace is to enioy euerlasting life S Paule so doth erpoūd it calleth ioy peace y ● effects of faith this must be in the cōsciēce of man h●…w could they departe in a quiet cōsciēc●… y t should go hēce in to hel or Limbus He vseth this order to proue mās saluatiō by whō he knoweth before thē he doth predestinate to be like vnto his sonne whō he pred estinareth thē he calleth whō he calleth thē he iustifieth whō he iustifieth he glorifieth by y e which it must n●…des followe y ● the fathers were predestinated called iustified glorified by christ Peter saith we beleue to to be sa●…ed by y e grace of Iesus christ as wel as y ● fathers Hetherto the scriptures The Hebrue Doctors affirme with one assente that there are but two places after this lyfe the one of ioy which they call Gan Eden full of ioy quietnes and consolation the other place Hell where the wicked are continually tormented without redemption The Chalde Paraphraste placethe all the soules of the iust in an heauenly tabernacle where they enioye pleasure perpetually this felicity saith he Dauid callethe y ● land of euerlastīg life And of this opinion is Chimi and Esra interpreting the 1. the 30. and 91 psalmes The greke doctors sende them to heauen Origen writinge vpon the firste of Iob to the tabernacies of the iust where are the ioyes of sayntes the rest of the faythfull the consolatiō of the godly the inheritaunce of the humble the reioysinge of the innocentes I shall go into lighte and life where is mirth ioy no sorow no lamitatio no calamity or sicknes but where I shall put away all paynes wher vertues are rewarded wher is the bosome of Abraham y e state patrimonye of Isaac Israels
and patron our welb●… ued Belial a moste skilfull 〈◊〉 experte lawyer he may be a Iu●… for his experience in wayghty 〈◊〉 and an vmpier for his 〈◊〉 dome an orator in pleadinge and ●…n arbiter in difficulte cases hee ●…anne wreste the texte he canne ●…nstrue and expound the canons ●…e canne depraue the truthe of the Gospell hee canne alleadge the Canon Lawe hee passethe all ●…he Ciuilians and canonistes hee ●…nne make of whyte blacke and 〈◊〉 blacke whyte hee ys an odde ●…ellowe indeede and one that ys ●…oste fit for our purpose Then ●…ame they into the consistorye Sa●…mon is Iudge Beliall was present ●…ythe hys Notarye and wytnes a●…ainste Christe who had done an ●…aynous robbery in hell Daniell ●…he notary and Secretary to kinge Salomon maketh for Belial a pub●…que instrumente Salomon was ●…udge betwene Beliall proctor of ●…ell of the one partye and Azaell swyft poste or messinger of the o●…her party Iesus was brought in he ●…ppointed for his proctor and lawyer Moses Moses petit terminū ad respondēdu●… There Belial alleadged the canō la●… the decrees decretals extrauag●… Bartholus Baldus Accursius Li●… wood Cantiuncule gloses an●… suche like Belial commencethe 〈◊〉 libell against Iesus Moses excepte●… againste the libell dilatorye Mose putteth in 12 positions to proue tha●… Iesus did very well in spoyling hell●… Moses bringeth 9 wytnesses Ada●… Abraham Isaac Iacob Dauid Ioh●… Baptist Aristotle Virgil and Y p●… cras so he tearmeth Hippocrates Belial replyethe salua reuerentia what auaylethe the testimonye o●… Adam who was a rebell as is manifeste to the whole worlde sayth●… Belial or of Abraham that kep●… openly cōcubines or of Isaac a lia●… and periured man of deceiptfu●… Iacob a thefe robber of his brother Vt ff de Ani. L. non potes o●… Dauid the murtherer and adulterer of Uirgill that was deceyued with●… womē hāged in a basket ouer th●… walles for a Spectacle of Ipocras that killed his nephew of Aristotle who frandulētly burst vp the armary of Salomon and deceiptfully appropriated to him his wisdome and philosophy I haue no exception against Iohn Baptist who was so holy mary one wytnes is no wytnes vt de test li. 1. 13. I cease to tell howe many parliaments the deuels kept and what prodigious pagents as ye may reade an infinite number of such sigular good stuffe in the scholasticall writers of these last fiue hudrethe yeares Carlil Iames de Theranio affirmethe that they of Limbus were in trouble in necessity in darkenes in the shadowe of deathe and in chaynes and giues whiche Christ burst you denye that they were in any trouble but this fable requireth no aunswere Smith Chrisostome saythe that ●…e brake the brasen gates and barrs of yron Carlil Esaye meaned that there should nothinge withstand Cyrus his power should be so greate his fortune so good his successe so happy and his iorney so prosperous no not thoughe the gates of the citties whiche hee should besiege were of brasse and their barres of yron Hee inuaded hee fetched out their treasure he wan Babilon he toke ryche Cresus prisoner Esay did ueuer imagine suche a fable Smith I haue a place in Dauid wher Dauid saythe that GOD had deliuered him oute of the nethermoste hell Carlil Was Dauid when hee wrote this deade or aliue I●… deade he could not wryte neither come there anye writinges oute of hell for they lacke ynke and paper ynke for that there ys no moisture but burninge bathes and boylinge bryinstone neyther ys there anye paper for yt would be consumed withe fyre If he lyued as he did indeed howe could he be in hell Is earthe hell Axe there bodyes in hell Did hee make this psalme in hell Did hee call out of hel or out of Palestina Do not you make 4. hels and now ye make but two Moreouer you M. Smithe affyrme that Christe wente to the vppermoste hell and yet here you saye that hee wente to the nethermoste hell What constancy is in your exposition what coherence in your religion what certainty in your faction and secte what agremente in your doctrine You say that he went to purgatory Reinerus denieth that he went thither at all Smith Wee all agree that Christe went to hell that hee haried hell that he fetched out the fathers Abraham Isaac Iacob the patriarkes and prophets that he bound Sathan and terrified the reste and put them to flighte Did not the holye fathers then crye De profundis clamaui who were they that cryed was it not the chur che not the lyuinge churche vppon earthe but the Churche that was in Limbus Carlil You folow the poore Scholers of the Uniuersitye who were wonte in the olde tyme to begge with De profundis for all christian soules Smith We vnderstande this of Purgatorie Carlil What was there any Purgatorie in Dauids dayes It was but founde out of late and concluded vpon in the councell of Ferrara in the yere of Christe 1439. or there about notwithstanding so slenderlye that the Grekes when they came home denied it Polidore writethe that Odilo the Moncke found it out in the mounte Aethna in Sicilia in the yeare of Christ 1200. Ye haue no Scr●…re to proue it neither is your place of the Machabes whiche you alledge for that purpose in the Hebrue but put in by some purgatory patrone Now if there bee no purgatory as wee are able to proue no third place out of this lyfe no dungeon of expiation neither after death any cōfessyon of a mans offences any remission neither hope nor fayth for they end with death neither any repenting or expectatiō of felicity thē where is your hellish Church your Limbian Sinagogue and your pur gatorie Prelates Doe they saye Masses satisfactory in Purgatorye haue they any Trentalles Obites Sacrifice or anye other satisfactiō This psalme was made when Dauid was in greate daunger of Saul and of his ennemies or rather as Lyra sayth in the person of the Israelytes who were in their captiui tye at Babilō drowned as it were in a diepe dungeon Or when hee was in an anguishe of Conscience after the death of Vrias Psalm 51. Augustine vnderstandeth this psalme of euery man that is in this mortall lyfe who is encombred w e anye vyce or misfortune and therfore muste ca●… and cry for helpe and mercie Smith I could bring many mo places out of the Psalmes Carlile Eyther the Argumente and meaninge of the Psalme shall confute you or els those places whiche I haue alleaged after for the true vnderstandinge of Sheol Nephes Smith Wise men and the best learned alledge the 6. of Hoseas for th●… going of Christe to hell After tw●… dayes sayeth he wil hee reuiue vs th●… thirde day hee wil raise vs vp and wee shal lyue in his sight Thus far Hoseas wordes Here you see
ha●… thought to haue thrust him in with a speare he giueth God thankes who had deliuered him from pres●… death and from the graue So do●… Flamminius expounde this Texte who dwelled at Rome when I di●… write this booke being of singula●… acquaintanc●… with Cardinal Poole Lyra saith that GOD deliuere●… Dauid a fossa 〈◊〉 from the pitte where he shoulde haue bene buri●…d The Geneua Bible translateth it thus Thou haste deliuered my soul frō the lowest graue wherin they offende that they translate Nephes the soule which Lyra in●…erpreteth the life which God deli●…ered from the graue Neither can ●…he immortall soule of man be enclosed in a graue neither a spiritu●…ll thinge in a corporall place From the lowest graue Lyra ●…yeth from the pitte where a man 〈◊〉 buried whiche is vnder the ●…arth The same phrase word for word is in Deuteronomy 32. verse 22. which place I haue expoūded before The greatest Bible translateth 〈◊〉 thus Thou hast deliuered my soule from the lowest parte of hell Wheron they groun●…e a detestable errour that they should thinke that Dauid a man of perfe●… faith of singular vertues and suche a one as was written in the booke of lyfe should imagine y ● either he should or could go to hell They put in this worde parte whiche is not in the Hebruetexte ●…nd why they should do so they ar●… able to giue no reason As though●… Dauid should haue descended to the lowest part where damned soul●… are Moreouer their translation deuideth hell into parts as though so●… parte were highe some lowe so●… in a meane wherein they folo●… y e damnable errour of the Papist●… the Superstitious deuision of th●… Schoolemen the ignoraunt pha●… tasye of the simple People who 〈◊〉 a longe tyme haue beene seduc●… by false Doctours ledde into err●… by lewde Fryers induced by bli●… Uisions and Reuelations bewitched by longe Custome and 〈◊〉 swaded to belieue besides that he●… whiche the Scripture speaketh of and wherein are appoynted for 〈◊〉 wicked euerlastinge and int●…llerable Torm entes euen Limbus Infantium where Childr●… dyinge without Baptisme are pe●… petuallie condempned without 〈◊〉 ●…ission without consolation wit●… 〈◊〉 hope of deliuery without grace without any expectation of solace without redemption The Second where the Faith●…ull Fathers and they that dyed be●…ore CHRIST did lye in drou●…y Dennes miserable mystes pal●…ble Darkenes and as some saye ●…courged certayne tymes of the day with Whyppes feared withe th●…●…rowning and foming Hellhounds ●…mased withe the noyesome specta●…es and tormented with spitefull ●…pirites And these saye they Christ ●…tched out The thirde they cal purgatory ●…f the which I haue spoken before 〈◊〉 large Augustine writinge vpon this ●…lace gesseth as the Blinde man ●…asteth his Staffe disputeth by ●…oniectures inuenteth many glo●…s and none of them true and ●…aueth the Te●…te in doubte ney●…er dare hee conclude anye thinge 〈◊〉 complaineth of his owne ignoraunce Thus it is to interpret●… the scriptures without foundation without the gifte of the Tongues without the proper vse and grounded knowledge of the Hebrew●… Tongue Dauid being miserably affli●…ted either with sickenes or els●… with his enemies and persecutor●… craueth ayde desireth to be comfor●…ted calleth for grace and mercye complayning that he is full of miserie and that his life draweth ner●… to the graue which graue he tear●… meth a pitte in the fourth verse ●… in the fifth verse a graue in the 6 verse a lowe pitt●… or hole and 〈◊〉 the same sixt verse darkenes an●… the deapth in the eleuenth a grau●… and the earth The Chaldee Paraphraste ha●… the house of perdition or rathe●… consumption where mens bodie●… consume to earthe in the. 1●… verse darkenes and the la●…d of 〈◊〉 or forgetfulnesse What bodie lying in the graue doth not forget all How or what ●…anne it remember that is without soule life and senses Sheol is the earth where graues are made and called the earth The greatest Bible translateth Sheol in this Psalme the graue Wherby it is manifeste that they were not agreed howe to translate it for oftentimes they translate it Hell Hugo Cardinalis against his wil i●… compelled to cal Infernum in this place Death What man is he saith Dauid that shal not dye or that can deliuer himselfe from the hand of the graue So dothe the Geneua Bible translate this place so the Chaldee paraphrast ●…o Campensis The same is Duma in Psalme 94. verse 17. For the graue is a place of silence So sayth Lyra. Duma is so vsed Ps. 115. 19. Duma is a place of silence as the Graue i●… where euery thinge is quiet 〈◊〉 at rest Psal. 94. 17. called a dit●… in the 13. verse before Psal. 115. 17 Esay 38. 10. 18. And Virgil. 6. 〈◊〉 meth to describe the Graue after same sort D●…i quibus imperiū animorū vmbraeque silent●… Et Chaos phlegeton loca nocte silentia late The pit beneath Ps. 88. 3. the gra●… beneth Ps. 86. 13. Deut. 32. 22. a●… y ● earth beneath Ezech. 31. 14. are al●… one And as it is in Ezechiel so 〈◊〉 it in Psal. 63. 10. the graue is calle●… Erets the earth in Salomon Eccl 17. the nethermoste partes of th●… earth And Iob saith that he came nake●… out of his mothers wombe thither he should returne naked meaning y ● he should go to the earth o●… graue The 72. Interpretours als●… haue Hades for Duma wherby w●… may learne y t they in all places b●… Hades ●…eaned y e graue And y ● sam●… ●…orde is in Psal. 116. 3. Dauid shew●…th the power of God to be so pre●…ent in euery place that he sayth If I shall ascende into heauen there he ●…is or if I shall make my bedde in the graue in Sheol there he is I suppose there is no man so insensible that will thinke that there is ●…nye Bedde in Hell As for the Graue it serueth the Deade for ●… Bed If I shal go saith Hugo Cardinalis into the bottomlesse pitte of sinne thou séeste me But here is no place for allegories Dauid béeing reuyled of Doeg and of other of Sauls flatterers called rebell traytor complaineth that his bones were so scattered as a man that diggeth grauell sprea●…eth it abroad or as one that heweth wood and therefore saieth that his bones are spread as it were at the mouthe of the graue So translate Munster Felix Campensis the Chaldee paraphrast Our bones lye scattered vpon the graues mouthe The greate Bible translateth it so And t●… Geneua bible At the graues mouth If we should translate Sheol Hell as the olde translation hath●… what shall wee doe with Dauid bones Were they scattered at th●… mouth of Hell He was not as ye●… deade therefore coulde not his bones be either in Hell or at Hells mouth Salomon writeth that the wicked