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A11509 An apology, or, apologiticall answere, made by Father Paule a Venetian, of the order of Serui, vnto the exceptions and obiections of Cardinall Bellarmine, against certaine treatises and resolutions of Iohn Gerson, concerning the force and validitie of excommunication. First published in Italian, and now translated into English. Seene and allowed by publicke authoritie; Apologia per le oppositioni fatte dall' illustrissimo & reverendissimo signor cardinale Bellarminio alli trattati, et risolutioni di Gio. Gersone. English Sarpi, Paolo, 1552-1623. 1607 (1607) STC 21757; ESTC S116732 122,825 141

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against Stephen And of Sergius the 3. against Iohn 9. And in like sort if he had obeyed Celestin 3. when he taught this doctrine that marriage might be dissolued for heresye nay he had vndoubtedly sinned that had obeyed Iohn 22. and beleeued for obedience sake that the soules of the saintes deceased did not see gods face All which I haue heere breifly touched to let the reader see that this assersion that Christian liberty may be lost by disobeying the Pope but not by obeying him may very well carry a good shew but that it is with all deceiptfull and captious beeing deliuered in such a generality and vnlesse it be limitted with this restriction when he commandes according to gods law fourthly where he saith that no Pope did euer attempt to change the forme of gouernment in the Citie of Venice I will be bold to put the auctor in minde that it is very much that he vndertakes to pronounce an absolute negatiue in a point of ecclesiasticall history for the space of nine hundred yeares during which time there haue beene about nine hundred and fourty Popes since the first began to intermedle with temporall matters of which number as it is true that the most part haue fauoured that state so yet can it not bee truely sayd of them all although it hath pleased the diuine prouidēce almost miraculously to protect and preserue the liberty thereof euen when it was apparant that some did labour mightily to ouerthrow it vtterly And further it may be well replied vnto him that it seemes strange and not to be endured That noe Pope hauing euer before this time according to the authors owne saying attempted or pretēded to desire to alter the gouernment of that common wealth This Pope should be now so peremptory and confident that he may doe it by offering as he doth to intermedle with the making of their lawes which is the very life and soule of ciuill gouernment At last the author passing ouer that which made not much to the purpose is contented to acknowledge that the translator speakes here of the liberty of a soueraigne Prince which among other things consisteth in making lawes necessary for the good gouernment of his state and punishing offendors And thus he goeth on There remaineth only that liberty which belongeth to an absolute Prince that acknowledgeth no superiour in temporall matters and of this kinde of liberty it is likely that the author of the preface speaketh But out of all question he is deceiued in saying that the Popes holinesse sends out excommunications against the state of Venice for refusing to subiect the liberty which God hath giuen them to the will of another And if any man obiect that to make lawes punish offendors is the proper right of absolute Princes and yet Pope Paule the fift excommunicates the heads and principall officers of the cōmon wealth of Venice because they will not obey him in disanulling recalling some lawes they haue made in temporall matters in setting at libertie certaine offendors which they had put in prison I answere that Pope Paule the fift excommucates the heades of that common wealth for refusing to obey him in disanulling not all lawes or any lawe concerning temporall matters but vniust wicked lawes made in preiudice of the Church and with great offence to God and their neighbour And who can or will deny if he be a true Catholick that the Pope hath authority as vniuersall pastour to rebuke reprooue any Prince or state for their sins if they refuse to obey to compell them vnto it by ecclesiasticall censures For accordingly we see that S. Gregory did very sharply reprooue tht Emperour Mauritius for a law which he had made that was preiudiciall to Gods seruice And Innocent the third as wee may reade in the chapter Nouit de iudicijs doth plainly determine that it belongeth to the Pope to censure the sinnes and offences of all the Princes of the world Non intendimus saith he iudicare de feodo cuius ad ipsum regem viz. spectat iudicium sed decernere de peccato cuius ad nos pertinet sine dubitatione censura quam in quemlibet exercere possumus debemus And a little after Cum non humanae constitutioni sed diuinae potius innitamur quia potestas nostra non est ex homine sed ex deo nullus qui sit sanae mentis ignorat quin ad officium nostrum spectet de quocunque mortali peccato corripere quemlibet Christianum si correptionem contempserit per districtionem ecclesiasticam coercere Sea forsitan dicetur quod aliter cum regibus aliter cum alijs est agendum Caterum scriptum legimus in lege diuina ita magnum iudicabis vt paruum nec erit apud te except to personarum Hitherto are the very words of Pope Innocent And Pope Boniface in the extrauagant vnam sanctam de maiorit obedient Saith very well that the temporall authority when it erreth ought to be ●●formed and rectified by the spirituall power For although a temporall prince that is absolute acknowledgeth no other temporall Prince for his superiour yet if he be a Christian he must of force acknowledge the head of all Christendome which is the Pope Christs vicar in earth to be his Superiour which Soueraigne Bishop or Pope because his chiefe end and care is the spirituall good of mens soules doth not therefore intermedle in the gouernment of temporall princes as long as they vse not their authority to the hurt of their owne soules and their subiects or to the preiudice of Christian religion But when they do the contrary hee both may and ought to put to his hand and to bring them into the right way againe And he that beleeues not this is no true Catholike and if any man shall obiect that those lawes of the Venetians containe in them neither sinne nor hurt to the Church I will answere him that to determine whether any law do containe sin or preiudice to the Church or not belongs likewise to the Pope who is the supreme and highest Iudge of all euen as to iudge whether a ciuill contract offend in the sinne of vsury belongs properly to the same ecclesiasticall Iudge to whom the cognisance of sins generally appertaineth So the Popes Holines blames not the Venetians for punishing their subiects that offend but because they presume to lay hands vpon ecclesiasticall persons which are subiect to no superiour but spirituall make no reckoning of the sacred Canons of the grieuous censures denounced against all such as lay hands vpon persons consecrated to God Therfore whosoeuer will rightly consider of this point without passion shall finde that the Pope goeth not about to bereaue the State of Venice of any other liberty but the liberty to do euill which is not giuen of God but of the diuell and our owne corrupt nature and is the selfe same thing with the bondage of
absolutely to be allowed that that Pope is head of all Christendome by reason of the Equiuocation of the word Christendome Among the ancient writers we finde him thus stiled The Bishop of Rome the successour of Saint Peter by some Saint Peters Vicar and in the latter times Christs Vicar Gods Vicar head of the Church fashions of speech which begets no ill meaning But it is otherwise in the vse of the word Christendome in this place by reason of the ambiguitie and double sense which it hath For it signifieth not onely the Christian Church but the Christian states and kingdomes and this latter signification is the more vsuall as when wee say that Asia or Aegypt are not within Christendome we doe not meane that there is no Christian Church in them but that they are not within the compasse of the Temporal states of the Christians So it is apparent that vnder this new forme of speech the fallacy is hidden For his purpose is to conclude that the Pope is head that is hath the gouernment command in temporall matters ouer all Christian States and Princes Let vs therefore keepe our antient formes and let vs call him head of the Christian Church But seeing the Authors drift is out of this whole discourse to draw this conclusion that where Princes vse their power to the hurt of their owne soules or their peoples and to the preiudice of Christian religion the Pope may take the matter in hand to redresse it although wee haue spoken much of this point before in the exposition of the Chapter Nouit it will not bee impertinent to our present purpose to consider what notable inconueniences will follow in this Doctrine thus generally deliuered There is no action of a man in indiuiduo but either it is a good worke or a sinne Now if it belong to the Pope to exercise iurisdiction ouerall sinnes and withall to take vpon him to determine what is sinne and what not I say there is no longer any Prince but the Pope nay further that there is no place left for any priuate gouernment For suppose the Prince make a lawe to exact some contribution for the extraordinary reliefe of the state by occasion of some warre that hee is forced to vndertake this lawe is not iust but a sinne vnlesse the end and ground of it bee lawfull and vnlesse the subiects doe submit and binde themselues to contributions according to the rules of iustitia distributiua hereupon the Pope may say I will know the end why this taxe is imposed and so he may diue into the secrets of that estate hee may also examine the distribution whether it bee equally and proportionably made and thereby come to the knowledge of the secret of the forces and wealth of that state And beeing a temporall Prince himselfe who in that right and quality may haue occasion of warre with an other Prince by this course it will bee an easie matter for him to infeable his enimie and to get the maistery of him at an easie rate In summe the Pope may by this Doctrine examine all lawes all edicts all conuentions all successions and all translations of Princes what shall I say hee may call in question and examine all inheritances and contracts of priuate men because it belongs to the sheepherd as the Author saith to haue a care of what his sheepe doe feede of what waters they drynke and where they haue their walke and this inference doth not onely necessarily follow of this supposition but is also allowed by all the Canonists that write vpon that chapter Nouit and yet neuerthelesse haue the wisest men and of most vnderstanding noted and taxed it to bee full of absurdities Which to auoide some men haue out of that Chapter Nouit framed a distinction That it is one thing to iudge of the matter or of the action or of the cōtract and an other to iudge of the sinne But they make a deuision where there can bee none for if it be the Popes right to iudge of all things as they are sinnes and to forbid them and inforce all men to obey his determinations therein what is there more left then for the Prince to do for example if there should be any bargaine and sale made wherin there were Iniquitie and Iniustice and the Pope should determine it to be sinne and cause it to be reuoked I would gladly knowe what there remaines for the Prince to intermedle in or to determine further touching that contract And I will hold my selfe satisfied if any man can shew me that there is left for the Prince as much as one of Democritus motes Surely by this Doctrine either all authority of Princes must be abolished or Christendome must bee holden in perpetuall combustion And here I vse not the word in any ambiguous sense but I vnderstand by Christendome all Christian states Kingdomes And because the Author hath taught vs a very generall doctrine that to iudge whether any lawe containe in it sinne or not It belongs to the Pope as it belongs to the ecclesiasticall Iudge to determine whether a ciuill contract containes in it the sinne of vsurie I must bee bold to tell him that from hence it will follow that not onely the Pope but euery ecclesiasticall Iudge shall haue power to determine of all matrers for it can belong no more to him to iudge whether a contract offend in vsury then whether it cary with it any other wrong or hurt to a mans neighbour for all that doe so are sinnes aswell as the other And by the same reason it will belong to the ecclesiasticall Iudge to determine of all manner of murther or killing of a man because it may be so done as it shall be a sinne and it may be otherwise And to them it shall likewise belong to iudge of the price set vpon Corne and other marchandise whether there bee sinne in it or not and to appoint that it shall either stand or be altered and whether a morgage containe extortion or not or a warrant for the apprehending and imprisoning of a man containe violence or Iniustice for euen in these matters there may bee sinne and whether the womens attire be scandalous or the men bee too superfluous or too sparing in the expence of their table for euen all these are sinnes And as they may by this meanes intrude themselues into the gouernment of all kingdomes so may they likewise into the gouernment of particular families and examine how the father gouernes his children or the husband vseth his wife And in conclusion because there is no action or affaire other publick or priuate wherunto sin is not incident if it shall be in the power of the ecclesiasticall Iudge to determine iudge of it either to allow it or forbid it to inforce obedience vnto his owne determination All Courts of iustice all places of contracts and all priuate families may well be transferred into the Bishops pallace
for the Prelate I ought not to obey him if it fall out to bee preiudiciall to the profit of my soule though it would proue exceeding greatly behoofefull to those ends which were aimed at by my Prelate The whole error stands in this that we giue power to the Prelate ouer matters temporall and transforme the ecclesiasticall ministery into a secular Court judiciall For to the secular power hath God committed the care of publique tranquillitie and giuen them authority to impose temporall punishments for feare of which it is requisite that wee bee subiect to them which is meant by for wrath besides the commaundement of God which enioyneth vs to obey them which makes vp the other branch for conscience sake But to the Ecclesiastical ministery hath God committed the care of soules which is not to meddle directly with temporall punishments and therefore hath he not commaunded to obey them for wrath Of the temporall power Saint Paul saith For he beareth not the sword without cause but of the ministery ecclesiasticall it is exercised by the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God The conclusion therefore which the author makes that to the Viccar of Christ all Christians are by the law of God obliged to bee subiect obedient is to be meant in things spirituall and appertayning to the saluation of soules and in the court of God and when hee commaundeth according to his diuine law But in temporall thinges absolute Princes are not s biect to any other then to God himselfe from whome their power is immediately deriued And if the weake hold the Pope to be a God and that he hath al power in heauen in earth more pleasing to almighty God is this their weakenes then their strength who seeming to be wise endeuour to abase the authority of the vicar of Christ as at this day all Heretiques do It is not so great a matter that the Pope should be reputed a God vpon earth seeing in the psalme he saith of all Princes I haue said ye are Gods Neither is it incōueniēt that one shold say that the Pope hath all power in heauen and in earth seeing Christ hath said whatsoeuer thou shalt bind vpon earth it shal bee bound also in the heauens Which yet is expounded and meant soundly by true and learned Catholiques And in summe I think it may be said with all truth that the power of the high Bishoppe is so great that few men arriue to comprehend it For hee is able to do all that which is necessary to the conducing of soules to Paradise and can take away all the impediments which the world or the Deuil with al their force or craft are able to oppose Whence it is that Saint Cyril cited by S Thomas in his Opuscle de primatu Petri saith that as Christ had from the Father all plenitude of power ouer all the Church so Christ gaue to S. Peter and to his successors all plenitude of power ouer all the Church Frier Paolo Because Gerson saith that they of weake and scrupulous conscience must be instructed who repute the Pope for a God to haue all power in heauen and in earth The Author makes answere that this their weaknes is more pleasing to God then the strength of Heretiques who esteeme themselues wise in despising the authority of the vicar of Christ As if we would contradict him that condemned auarice by saying it more pleaseth God to be a niggard of his own then to spend it in riot other superfluities as though there were not the true meane which is liberality The right māner of speech were it lesse displeaseth God to be niggardly then to be prodigal in riot but both displease him The sinne is most grieuous to deny the true authoritie graunted by Christ to his vicar yet his ignorance that giueth him more authority then is conuenient is not praiseable Truth is acceptable to God ignorance when it is inuincible is not good but excusable it implieth great contradiction to say that any false thing pleaseth God The Author be●ing accustomed to speake properly might haue said this weaknes of theirs is lesse displeasing to God then the strength of Heretiques and we would haue commended him For so should the truth haue beene vnfolded that neither the one nor the other of the foresaide extreames do please at all And let not the Author think it inconuenient if one should say that it is good to instruct the simple people not to giue more authority to the Pope then that which is right lawfull for so saith S. Gregory 2. Quest 7. and yeelds his reason Admonendi sunt subditi ne plusquam expedit sint subiecti ne cum student plusquānecesse est hominibus subiici compellantur etiam vitia eorum venerari could this holy personage more plainely confirme the doctrine of Gerson Gerson saith that those who in scrupulosity of conscience take the Pope for a God must not be suffered to rest in their simplicity and S. Gregories words are that subiects must be admonished that they make not themselues more subiect then is conuenient but that which is more of importance giues the reason of it because they are inforced to flatter them in their vices whose subiects they make themselues more then they should be Then can you not err if you adde hereunto that mans custome is to imitate the thinges he reuerenceth and you may conclude it to be both good and necessary to take away this false suggestion That which follows in the Author that it is no great matter though the Pope be thought a God since all Princes haue the stile of Gods hath no inconuenience in it so as we be not ouertaken in the ambiguity of the words but whilst that out of this proposition which hath good sense in it we draw a consequence Papa et Deus constituunt idem tribunal Papae Dei idem consistorium we shall ascribe to him a kind of diety which Gerson doth not allow The Author thinks it no inconuenience to say that the Pope hath all power in heauen and in earth because it is said quodcunque ligaueris superterram erit ligatum in coelis and yet may it appeare to any that this conclusion is not well drawne from this place because power belongs to the actiue property and quodcunque appertaines to the matter If I should say the Parish-priest is he that makes all marriages it doth not therefore follow that he hath all power in matter of marriage For to say quodcunque ligaueris super terram erit ligatum i● coelis therefore quocunque modo ligaueris followes not And this is it which Gerson doth not approue and thus do I thinke would the Author himselfe vnderstand it whē he saith that thus it is declared and truly vnderstood by true and learned Catholiques because that this proposition The Pope hath all power in heauen and in earth being taken absolutely is false or being tied