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A09106 A quiet and sober reckoning vvith M. Thomas Morton somewhat set in choler by his aduersary P.R. concerning certaine imputations of wilfull falsities obiected to the said T.M. in a treatise of P.R. intituled Of mitigation, some part wherof he hath lately attempted to answere in a large preamble to a more ample reioynder promised by him. But heere in the meane space the said imputations are iustified, and confirmed, & with much increase of new vntruthes on his part returned vpon him againe: so as finally the reconing being made, the verdict of the Angell, interpreted by Daniel, is verified of him. There is also adioyned a peece of a reckoning with Syr Edward Cooke, now L. Chief Iustice of the Co[m]mon Pleas, about a nihil dicit, & some other points vttered by him in two late preambles, to his sixt and seauenth partes of Reports. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. 1609 (1609) STC 19412; ESTC S114160 496,646 773

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doth consist of body mind the carnall or bodily part did chie●ly preuaile among the Iewes and herewith endeth as though nothing more had ensued of that matter thrusting out these words that imediatly followed made the thing cleare which are Et ad spiritualia significanda constituebatur that kind of earthly power was appointed to signify the spirituall that was to be in the new Testament Wherby is euidētly seene that Salmeron vnderstood not by carnalis pars and regnum terrenum the temporall Kingdome of Iury as this Mynister doth insinuate to make the matter odious but the Ecclesiasticall gouerment of the Sinagogue vnder the old law in respect of the Ecclesiasticall power in the new wherof the other was but an earthly figure or signification 40. But now the third corruption and most egregious of all is in his English Translation out of the Latin words of Salmeron for thus he translateth them in our name In the Synagogue of the Iewes sayth Salmeron was a State rather earthly then heauenly so that in that people which was as in the body of a man consisting of body and soule the carnall part was more emynent meaning the temporall to haue byn supreme In which translation are many seuerall shiftes frauds For where as Salmeron sayth Synagoga Iudaeorum dicebatur potiùs terrenum quàm caeleste regnum The Synagogue or Ecclesiasti●all power among the Iewes was called rather an earthly th●n a heauenly Kingdome he translateth yt The Synagogue of the Iewes was a State rather earthly then heauenly And this to the end he might apply the word of eart● to the temporall Prince and heauenly to the Iudaicall Priests which is quite from Salmerons meaning Secondly those other words of Salmeron being Cùm populus Dei constet ex corpore animo VVhere as the people of God do consist of body and mynd meaning therby aswell Christians as Iewes and that the Iewes are as the bodily or carnall part of the man and the Christians the spirituall and consequently their Ecclesiasticall authority earthly and ours heauenly this fellow to deceiue his reader putteth out first the word Dei the people of God which could not but signify Christians in Salmerons meaning and then translateth In that people to wit the Iewes the carnall part was the more eminent meaning sayth he the temp●rall which is fals● for he speaketh expresly of the Ecclesiasticall power among the Iewes which he calleth carnall and terrene in respect of the spirituall Ecclesiasticall among the Christians and not the temporall or kingly power vnder the old Testamēt as this man to make vs odious to temporall Princes as debasing their authority would haue it thought And Salmerons contraposition or antithesis is not betweene the temporall and Ecclesiasticall gouerment among the ●ewes but betwene their Ecclesiasticall gouernment and ours that of the Synagogue and this of the Christian Church wherof the one he sayth to be terrene and earthly the other spirituall and heauenly the one infirme the other powerfull ouer soules c. So as all these sortes and kinds of corruptiōs being seene in this one litle authority you may imagine what wil be found in the whole Booke if a man had so much patience and time to leese as to discusse the same exactly throughout So in that place And did not this require some answere also among the rest Had it not bene good that M. M●rton had ●ent vs some few lines of satisfactiō to this insteed of so many idle triflings as he hath prosecuted largely in this his Reply But it is easily seene that he sought for choice matter wherby to intertayne his reader and seeme to say somewhat THE EIGHT Falshood pretermitted by Thomas Morton §. VIII THERE remayneth yet another notable abuse which I may not pas●e ouer against the same Salmeron though by order I should haue mentioned yt be●ore thus it is la●d forth in my Booke of Mitigation It followeth in the same place said I as a second Romish pretence produced by M. Morton That the old ●estament was a figure of the new in Christ and th●rf●re that in the new the spirituall power as the Popedome sayth he must be the chiefe or substantiue c. which short sentence he patcheth out of two different authors Salmeron Carerius part of one part of another then frameth this graue answere therunto In this obiection sayth he there is more childhood then manhood ba●ish grammer then sound diuinity So he And will you heare his manhood in sound diuinity It followeth immediatly The old Testament indeed saith he in his earthlie elements was a figure o● this s●irituall and heau●nly but o● the truly heauenly the day of that eternall Sabboth and the celesticall Hierusalem the mother-Citty of the Sai●ts o● God Behold his manhood in sound Diuinity 42. Let it be so that the old Testament was in many thinges a figure of the heauenly Sabboth and celestiall Hierusalem but what Syr will you cōclude of this by your sound diuinity was it not a ●igure also of many things vpō earth which should be fulfilled in the new Testament Were not their Cerimonies and Sacrifices a figure of our Sacramēts Sacrifice their Manna of our Eucharist their Circumcisions and washings figures of our Baptisme doth not S. Paul in the 9. an 10. of his first Epistle to the Corinthians set downe many examples to this effect as that of Deutronomy Non alligabis os boui trituranti thou shalt not bynd vp the mouth of the oxe that laboureth applying it vnto our Preachers of the new Testament that must haue their maintenance as also he expoundeth the passing of the Red-sea by the Israelits their being baptized in the Cloud their food of the Manna their drinking out of the Rocke which prefigured Christ and diuers other things wherof he sayth Haec autem in figura facta sunt nostri these things were done in figure of our present St●te And againe Haec autem omnia in figura contingebant illis All these things did happen to the Iewes in figure but were to be fullfilled truly and really according to the spirituall meaning in the new Testament Is not all this so Were not these things to be fulfilled aswell vpon earth as in heauen How then doth our Mynister put that aduersatiue clause but of the truly heauenly as though the old Testament in her earthly elements had pre●igured nothing to be fulfilled but only in heauē Is this sound Diuinity Is this Manhood Nay is it not rather babish Childhood that semeth not to know the very first elements of true Diuinity 43. I let passe the shameles corruption which he vseth in translating the very words cyted by him out of Salmeron for proofe of his obiection made in our behalfe and I call yt shameles for that euery Child which vnderstandeth Latyn may see the Ministers shift therin The Authors words are these as this man
am content to stand heerin not only to any Iudge that sitteth vpon any of his Maiesties Benches at this day but euen to Syr Edward himselfe with condition only that he will be content with patience to heare my reasons which are these that ensue 4. First a Iudgment of Nihil dicit cannot proceed as I suppose but vpon one of these two causes that ●yther the party sayth nothing at all as when one standing at the barre to answere for his life will for sauing of his goods and lands vtterly hold his peace or when he speaketh his speach is nothing to the purpose But neyther of these causes can be iustly alleaged in our case Not the first for that the Catholicke Deuines printed Answere is large and conteyneth as I haue said aboue 400. pages in quarto Not the second as now shall euidently be declared ergo no iudgment could passe in iustice vpon a Nihil dicit in behalfe of Syr Edward against the sayd Deuine 5. Now then let vs come to demonstrate that the Catholicke Diuine did speake to the purpose in deed for better vnderstanding wherof we must recall to memory the true state of the question and what Syr Edward Cooke then Attorney vpon his offer and obligation was to proue to wit that Queene Elizabeth by the right of her temporall Crowne had supreme spirituall Ecclesiasticall authority ouer all her subiects in Ecclesiasticall affayrs as largely as euer any persō had or could haue in that Realme and this by the common lawes of England before any Statute law was made in that behalfe For proofe wherof the sayd Attorney pretended to lay forth a great number of cases examples and authorityes out of his law-bookes which he said should proue the ancient practice of this authority in Christian English Kings both before and since the Conquest which being his purpose whatsoeuer his aduersary the Catholicke Deuine doth alleage substantially to ouerthrow this his assertion and to proue that Q. Elizabeth neyther had nor could haue this spirituall Authority though she had beene a man neither that any of her ancestours Kings and Queenes of Englād did euer pretend or practice the like authority this I say cānot be iudged to be frō the purpose much lesse a Nihil dicit Let vs examine then the particulers 6. The Catholicke Deuine at his first entrance for procuring more attention in this great and weighty controuersy betweene M. Attorney and him about the Spirituall power and authority ouer soules in the moderne English Church doth auerre the question to be of such moment as that the determination of all other controuersies dependeth therof For that whersoeuer true ●pirituall authority and iurisdiction is found there must needs be the true Church to whom it appertaineth to determine of the truth of the doctrine taught therin or in any other false Church or cōgregatiō for approuing the one condemning the other Wherof cōsequently also depēdeth euerlasting saluatiō or condēnatiō of all those that belieue or not belieue those doctrines 7. He sheweth further that the life spirit essence of the true Church in this world consisteth in this true iurisdiction of gouerning and directing soules by preaching teaching bynding and absoluing from synne administring true Sacraments and the lyke And that where this true power Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction is not lawfully foūd but eyther none at all or violently assumed there wanteth this vitall spirit Neyther is it any Church at all but a Synagogue rather of Sathan and therfore that the fir●t and chiefe care of euery Christian ought to be for sauing of his soule e●pecially in tymes of strife contentions and heresyes as are these of ours to study well this point and to informe himselfe diligently therin for if he fynd this he fyndeth all and i● he misse in this he misseth in all Nor is it possible for him to be saued 8. Moreouer he declareth that as in England at this day there be three different professio●s of religion the Protes●ant the Puritan and the Catholicke all three clayming this true and vitall power o● Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction to be in their Congregations so do they deriue the same from three different heads and fountaynes immediatly though all pretend that mediatly at leastwise it commeth from God The Prot●stants taking it from the Temporall Princes authority giuen him from God by right of his Crowne as here is taught by M. Attorney The Puritans from the people gathered togeather in their congregation The Catholicks from their Bishops and Prelats descending by continuall succession from the Apostles to whome they belieue that Christ first gaue heauenly power and iurisdiction for gouerning of soules and especially to the cheefe Bishop Successor to S. Peter and not vnto temporall Princes or to lay people or popular Congregations made by themselues who cannot properly be called Successours of the Apostles and this difference as it is mani●est and euident so is it of such weight as it maketh these three sortes of men and their Congregations or Churches irreconciliable for that which soeuer of these three partes hath this true iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall hath therby the tru● Church as hath beene said maketh the other two to be no Churches at all but rather prophane and Diabolicall S●nagogues and such as haue neyther true Prelats nor Prelacy nor true preaching nor teaching nor Sacramēts nor absolutiō of sinnes nor any one act or thing o● a Christian Church in them And that the tryall of all this dependeth of the discussion of this controuersie betweene M. Attorney and him All this hath the Deuine in his first entrance And did he not herin speake to the purpose or can this be condemned for a Nihil di●it 9. A●ter this for better vnderstāding of the whole controuersie the Deuine layeth downe at large the ground beginning and origen of all lawfull power and iurisdiction of men ouer men both spirituall and temporall in this world shewing how both of them are from God though differently the spirituall being instituted immediatly by him and deliuered to the Apo●●les and their Successours but the temporall mediatly that is to say giuen first to the Common wealth to choose what forme of gouernment they list and by mediation of that election giuing to temporall Princes supreme Authority in all temporall affaires 10. Then he ●heweth the different ends and obiects of these powers the end of spirituall power being to direct vs to euerlasting saluation both by instruction discipline direction and correction of the temporall or ciuill power by lyke meanes and helpes to gouerne well the Common weal●h in peace aboundance order iustice and prosperity And according to th●se ends are also their obiects matter meanes As for exāple the former hath for her obiect spirituall things belonging to the soule as matters of sayth doctrine Sacraments such other and the later handleth the Ciuill affayres of the Realme and Common wealth as they
appertayne to the temporall good and prosperity therof 11. Next after the declaratiō of these three pointes to wit of the origens ends obiects of these two powers spirituall and ●ēporall the sayd Catholicke Deuine deduceth out of the same the differēt dignity excellency eminency of the one the other power the one being called Deuine the other Humane for that the ends and obiects of the one are immediatly concerning the soule as now we haue declared and the other concerning humane affaires immediatly though mediatly in a Christian Common wealth referred also to God And this di●ference of these two powers he declareth by the similitude likenesse of flesh and spirit out of S. Gregory Nazianzen who in a certaine narration of his doth most excellently expresse the same by the comparison of spirit and flesh soule and sense which thing saith he may be considered as two distinct Common wealthes separated the one from the other or conioyned togeather in one Common wealth only An example of the former wherin they are separated may be in beasts and Angels the one hauing their common wealth of sense only without soule or spirit and the other Cōmon wealth of Angels being of spirit only without flesh or body but in man are conioyned both the one the other And euen so sayth he in the Common wealth of Gentils was the Ciuill and Poli●icall Earthly and Humane power giuen by God to gouerne worldly and humane things but not spirituall for the soule wheras cōtrarywise in the primitiue Chri●tian Church for almost three hundred yeares togeather none or few Kings Princes or Potentates being conuerted the Common wealth of Christians was gouerned only or principally by spirituall authority vnder the Apostles and Bishops that succeeded them 12. Out of which consideration confirmed and strengthened by sundry places of holy scripture ancient Fathers alleaged by him he sheweth the great eminency of spirituall Authority aboue temporall being considered seuerally in themselues though they may stand ioyntly and both togeather in a Christian Common wealth where the temporall Princes be Christiās though with this necessary subordination that in spirituall and Ecclesiasticall affaires belonging to the soule the spirituall gouernours be chiefly to be respected as in Ciuill affaires the temporall magistrate is to be obeyed and this he sheweth by diuers examples and occasions out of S. Ambrose S. Chrysostome S. Gregory Nazianzen and other Bishops and Prelats that in Ecclesiasticall affayres prefered themselues and their authorities before that of Christian Emperours with whome they lyued expresly affirming that in those respects they were their Superiours Pastours the said Emperours their sheep subiects though in temporall affaires they acknowledged them to be their Superiours 13. All this is set downe by the Catholicke Deuine with great variety of proofes many examples facts and speaches of ancient Fathers And will Syr Edward Cooke say that this was frō the purpose a Nihil dicit doth not this quite ouerthrow his assertiō that all tēporall Kings by vertue power of their temporall Crownes haue supreme authority also in spiritual affaires If the forsaid three Fathers to pretermit all others S. Gregory Nazianzen S. Chrysostome and S. Ambrose that had to do with Christian Emperours which had tēporall authority ouer all or the most part of the Christian world did yet notwithstanding affirme vnto their faces that they had no authority at all in spirituall matters belonging to soules but were and ought to be subiect to th●m their Pastours in that Ecclesiasticall gouerment how much lesse could a woman-Prince haue the same by right of her temporall Crowne as most absurdly M. Attorney auerreth Which absurdity the Catholicke Deuine doth conuince so largely by all sortes of proofes both diuine and humane as well vnder the law o● Nature as Mosay●all and Christian that a person of the feminine s●xe is not capable of supreme Spirituall iurisdiction ouer man as nothing seemeth can be answered therūto And was this also ●rom the purpose to proue that Queene Elizabeth could not haue it What will Syr Edward answere here for his Nihil dicit 14. After all this and much more alleaged by the Catholicke Deuine which I pretermit for breuities sake he commeth to reduce the whole controuersie betweene M. Attorney and him vnto two generall heads of proofe the one de Iure the other de facto that is of right and fact shewing that in the first of these two proofes de Iure which is the principall M. Attorney did not so much as attempt to say any thing ●or proofe that by right Queene Elizabeth or any of her Ancestours had supreme iurisdiction in causes Ecclesiasticall but only that de ●acto some of them had sometymes taken and exercised such an authority Which if it were without right was as yow know nothing at all and therfore the sayd Deuine hauing proued more at large that by no right of any law whatsoeuer diuine or humane Queene Elizabeth or her predecessours had or could haue supreame authority Spirituall he cōmeth to ioyne with M. Attorney also in the second prouing that neyther in fact any such thing was euer pretended or practised by any of her Predecessours before the tyme of her Father K. Henry the viij either before or after the Conquest 15. And as for before the Conquest there haue beene more then an hundred Kings of different Kingdomes within the land he proueth by ten large demonstrations that none of them did euer take vpon him such supreme spirituall authority but acknowledged it expresly to be in the Bishop of Rome of which demōstrations the first is of lawes made by them generally in fauour and confirmation of the liberties of the English Church according to the directions and Canons deriued ●rom the authority of the Sea Apostolicke The second that Ecclesiasticall lawes in England made before the Conquest were made by Bishops and Prelats who had their Authority from Rome and not by temporall Kinges The third that all determination of weighty Ecclesiasticall affayres were referred not only by the Christian people generally of that Realme as occasions fell out but by our Kings also in those dayes vnto Rome and the Sea Apostolicke The ●ourth that the Confirmations of all Priuiledges Franchises of Churches Monasteries Hospitals and the like were in those dayes demaunded and obteyned from the Pope The fifth that in all Ecclesiasticall controuersies suites and grieuances there were made Appeales and complaints to the Sea of Rome for remedy The sixth the succession of Bishops Archbishops in England during that time all acknowledging the supremacy of the Pope were notwithstanding in high fauour and reuerence with the English Kings with whom they lyued wherof is in●erred that these Kings also must needs be of the same iudgment and beliefe and consequently make lawes conforme to that their fayth and beliefe as contrariwise since the schisme began by K. Henry the 8.