Metropolitan and Commissioners to be done oâ— not done as might seeme most convenient to them and yet the Parliament confirmed that Rubrick for standing at the north side of the Table And for the Queene the B p yeelds it in his letter that shee and her Commissioners or as your altered Copie hath it she and her Counsell were content the Altars should stand still as before they did the Injunction leaving it as a thing indifferent and of no great moment so that the Sacrament be duely and reverently administred Neither did the Commissioners in their Visitation determine any thing for taking downe of Altars where they found them standing that wee can meet with in their Orders of the yeere 1561. Nor need you stick at the word Table mentioned in the Rubrick confirmed in that Parliament as if that did imply or intimate the necessary taking downe of Altars For you your selfe have told us that sacrifice and Altars being relatives no sooner was the sacrifice abolished but these call them what we will are no more Altars but tables of stone and timber in the Epistle to the Vicar So then that which was once an Altar when there was a sacrifice the sacrifice of the Masse you mean is now become a table only whether of stone or timber that 's no way materiall and therefore standing as they did when the Act was made the Minister could not possibly officiate at the north-side unlesse you call the narrower end a side as the Doctor doth and as your selfe doe did you understand your selfe out of the Pontificall Besides the meaning of the Act is to be considered not the words alone which was to fixe the Minister to some certaine posture For in K. Edwards first Liturgie An. 1549. the Minister was appointed as before is said to stand in mediâ— Altaris with his back towards the people After when as the King had commanded to take downe the Altars and to set up tables then followed first a difference about the situation of those Tables some being placed like Altars and some like tables according as we have it in the Acts and Monuments part 2. pag. 700. Hereupon followed that confusion which Miles Huggard speakes of amongst the Ministers themselves some standing north-ward some south-ward and some west-ward For remedy whereof it was appointed in the second Liturgie that hee the Minister should have some certaine point whereupon to fixe your selfe affirming that this contention was determined by the Rubrick still in force for the North-side of the Table So that the meaning of the Rubrick being onely this to assigne the Minister some certaine point whereon to fasten his aspect in his officiating at the holy table that meaning is aswell complyed withall in standing at the north or narrower side thereof placed along the wall as standing at the longer side with one eâ—d towards the East great window Nay I will goe a little farther and put it to consideration and no more than so whether the Rubrick ordering that the Minister shall stand at the North side of the Table doth not imply the Tables standing Altarwise close along the wall if within the Chancell and close to the partition if within the Church And I propose it on this ground Because in case it had been meant in the composure of that Rubrick that the holy Table should stand endlong and farre off from the wall or the partition the fittest posture for the Minister had beene at the east-East-end thereof with his face downwards towards the people Certaine I am that in that posture he would be best both seene and heard of all the Congregation better by farre than standing at either side thereof either north or south which seemes to be the thing most stood upon in the Bishops letter to the Vicar But I propose this onely as a consideration I affirme it not Next wee must follow you to the third Argument of the Doctor drawne from the exercise of that supreme power in Ecclesiasticis which is invested in the King For granting that the King may command a greater matter of this nature than that the Table should be placed where the Altar stood you onely seeme to doubt whether his Majesty hath any way declared his plâ—asure that hee would have it so or not Before you asked the Doctor where the King commanded it as if not any thing but an expresse command had the power to stir you when other men as wise as you have thought the intimations of a Prince in matters of indifferent nature as you acknowledge this to be sufficient inducements for a subject to conforme thereto Now you have changed your style and onely stand on the denyall that his most sacred Majesty hath not in this case declared his pleasure you meane perhaps not so declared it as that it pleaseth you to obey his pleasure The Doctor saith in briefe that his sacred Majesty hath hereupon already declared his pleasure in the case of S. Gregories and thereby given encouragement to the Metropolitans Bishops and other Ordinaries to require the like in all the Churches committed to them Your answer is as short but not halfe so sweet that it is most untrue that his Majesty hath declared in that Act one word of his pleasure hereupon i. e. as you expound your selfe against the contents of the Bishops letter Most gravely spoken What had his Majesty to doe with the Bishops letter that he should signifie his pleasure thereupon when as the merit of the same was not called in question Aquila non capit muscas you know the proverbe The businesse then in question was the standing of the Table in S. Gregories Church which by the Ordinary there was placed Altar-wise and his most sacred Majesty did thereupon declare his pleasure approving and confirming the Act of the said Ordinary You chalenge this as most untrue and presently fall foule on the poore man for libelling against the Bishop malicious falsifying of his Authors in every page and finally your owne turne served for comming to that height of impudency as ponere os in coelum to out-face heaven it selfe and mis-report the justice of so divine a Maiesty Why so Because say you If we abstract from this Declaration which the bold man hath printed for an Act of Counsell the allegations which he the said bold fellow calleth the relations of both parties and his Maiesties iust pleasure for the dissolving of the appeale the remainder will prove a full confirmation of the Bishops letter If so then frange leves calamos scinde Thalia libellos the Doctor tooke much paines to little purpose And that it is so you are peremptorie as in all things else because the Declaration tels us That the liberty given by the Communion booke or Canon for placing the Communion Table in any Church or Chappell with most conveniencie is not to be understood as if it were ever left to the discretion of the Parish much lesse to
Marry say you the Minister appointed to reade the Communion is directed to reade the Commandements not at the end but the North side of the table which implyes the end to be placed towards the East great window 2. It was practiced so in K. Edwards time as is not proved but endeavoured to be proved out of the troubles at Francofurt 3. Because it is very likely that Cox Grindall and Whitehead being halfe the number of the perâ—sers of the Liturgiâ— which was to be confirmed in the Parliament following would observe that ceremonie in placing the Communion-table which themselves abroad and at home had formerly practiced These are the Arguments we must trust to to confirme the point but these will not do it for they are onely say-soes and no proofes at all and might as justly be denied by us as venturously affirmed by you But we will scan them severally beginning first with that comes last and so proceeding ascendendo untill all be answered First then Cox Grindall and Whitehead made not up halfe the number of the Perusers of the Liturgie The Author whom you cite names us eight in all Parker Bill May Cox Grindall Whitehead Pilkington and Sir Thomas Smith all joynt-Commissioners in the business So that unless it may be proved that three and three makes eight and if it may be proved you are more cunning at Arithmetick than in all the Mathematicks beside Grindall and Cox and Whitehead made not halfe the number But let that passe for once how shall wee know that they did place the Communion-table end-long both at home and abroad For this we are directed to the troubles at Francofurt pag. 23. and 24. in which there is not any word that reflects that way All we finde there is the recitall of a letter sent from the conformable English-men at Strasburgh to the schismaticall congregation of the English-men in Francofurt about reducing them unto the booke of Common-prayers established in the latter end of K. Edward 6. which letter was delivered to them by M r. Grindall and M r. Chambers and signed by 16. of their hands Grindals being one but not one word of Cox or Whitehead Or grant this too that Grindall Cox and Whitehead placed their Communion table end-long when they were abroad and might be fearefull of offending those amongst whom they lived yet would it be no good conclusion that therefore they appointed it should be so here where they were safe and out of danger and had the countenance of the Qâ—eene who liked old orders very well for their incouragement You saw this well enough and therefore dare not say it for a certaine but a likely matter and likelihoods I trow except it be for you are no demonstrations This said your second argument about the practise in K. Edwards time endeavoured to be proved from the troubles at Francofurt is already answered Your poore indeavours and your simple likely-hoâ—ds may well go together Nor is there any thing in all that relation which concernes this practise more than a summary of the orders in K. Edwards booke drawne up by Knox and others of that crew to be sent to Calvin by his determinatâ— sentence to stand or fall where it is onely said that the Minister is to stand at the North-side of the table Which being a recitall onely of the Rubrick in the Common-prayer booke makes but one Argument with the first or helps God wott but very poorely for the proofe of that But where you knock it on the head with saying that the placing of the table end-long with one end towards the East great window was the last situation of that table in K. Edwards time and call Miles Huggard for a witness most sure Miles Huggard tels you no such matter For thus saith Miles How long were they learning to set their table to minister the said Communion upon First they placed it aloft where the high Altar stood Then must it be set from the wall that one might go betweene the Ministers being in contention on whether part to turne their faces either towards the West the North or South Some would stand west-ward some north-ward some southward How say you now Doth Miles say any thing of placing the table end-long No point He saith it was removed from the wall where at first it stood that one might goe between the said wall and it and so I hope it might standing North and South but that it was placed endlong not one word saith Miles Your out-works being taken in come wee unto the fort it selfe the Rubrick where it is said the Minister standing at the North-side of the Table shal say the Lords Prayer The Doctor answered this before in his Coal from the Altar viz. That being in all quadrangular and quadrilaterall figures there were foure sides though commonly the narrower sides be called by the name of ends the Minister standing at the north-end of the table doth performe the Rubrick the table standing in the place where the Altar stood as well as standing at the North-side in case it stood with one end towards the East great window And this he did conceive the rather because that in the Common-prayer booke done into Latine by the command and authorized by the great Seale of Qu. Eliz. it is thus translated Ad cujus mensae Septentrionalem partem Minister stans or abit orationem dominicam that the Minister standing at the North-part of the table shall say the Lords Prayer This is the summe of his discourse what reply make you First entring on a vaine discourse touching the raptures of the soule when it is throughly plunged in the study of the Mathematicks and therein shewing your notorious ignorance in mis-reporting the inventions of Archimedâ—s and Pythagoras which wee will tell you of hereafter you fall on this at last for the maine of your answer Loquendum est cum vulgo when we speake to the people of a side we must take a side as they take it and that the Doctor was too blame to dispute out of Geometry against custome and that with people which are no Geometricians Poore subjects that are penally to obey Lawes and Canons not being to be spoken to according to the Rules of Art You tell us further that every Art hath to it selfe its owne words of art and thereupon produce an Epitaph on the Chanter of Langres full of odde musicall notes and pretty crotchets in that chanting faculty And with another tale of Euclide and certaine Diagrams drawne in the sand by the Egyptians advise the Doctor to remember that the Rubrick was written for the use of the English and not of the Gypsâ—es Of all this there is little that requires an answer consisting all of flourishes and fencing-tricks but not one handsome ward to keepe off a blow For speake man was that Rubrick written for the Laitie or for the Clergie for the poore subjects as you call them
or a learned Ministery I trust you are not come so far as to beleeve that every Cobler Tayler or other Artizan may take his turne and minister at the holy Altar though you have something here and there which without very favourable Readers may be so interpreted If so as so it was the Rubrick being onely made for the direction of the Clergie and amongst those the Ministers of Lincoln Diocese whom I presume you neither will nor can condemne of so much ignorance why doe you talke so idly of poore subjects that are penally to obey lawes and Canons and ignorant people that are not to be spoken 〈◊〉 by Rules of Art But this it seemes hath beene your recreation onely For not to dally with us longer you tell the Doctor that learned men in these very particular ceremonies which we have in hand have appropriated the word sides to the long and the word end to the short length of an oblong square This if well done is worth the seeing and how prove you this Gregory the 13. who had about him all the best Mathematicians in Europe when he renewed or changed the Calendar doth call them so in his Poâ—tificall Non sequitur This is the strangest sequele that I ever heard of Nor can it possibly hold good unlesse it had beene said withall that in the setting out the said Pontificall he had consulted with those Mathematicians in this very thing by whose advise and counsell he renewed the Calendar And be that granted too what then Why then say you in his Pontificall he makes no more sides of an Altar â—han of a man to wit a right side and a left side calling the lesser squares the anterior and posterior part thereof For proofe of this you cite him thus Et thuriâ—icat Altare undique ad dextrum sinistrum latus pag. 144. And then againe in anteriori posteriori parte Altaris pag. 142. of your Edition Venet. 1582. being in mine of Paris 1615. pag. 232. 247. But cleerely this makes good what the Doctor saith For the anteriour part must needs be that at which the Priest stands when hee doth officiate which by their order is with his face to the East and the posteriour that which is next the wall which pag. 183. you call the back-side of the Altar And then it must needs be that the two sides thereof as they are called in the Pontificall must be the north-North-end and the south-South-end which justifieth directly the Doctors words when he affirmeth that the Rubrick according to the meaning and intent thereof is aswell fulfilled by the Minister standing at the North end of the Table placed along the wall as at the north side of the same standing towards the window I hope you have no cause to brag of this discovery That which comes after concerneth the translation of the booke of Common prayer by Walter Haddon as you conjecture which you except against as recommended to a few Colledges and not unto the Church of England and yet acknowledging in your margin that it was recommended unto all the Colledges which are the Seminaries no doubt of the Church of England 2. That it never was confirmed by Act of Parliament or by K. Iames his Proclamation but take notice of the authorizing thereof under the great Seale of Qu. Elizabeth no lesse effectuall for that purpose than a Proclamation 3. That in that translation the Calendar is full of Saints and some of them got into red scarlet which howsoever it may cast some scandall on the Queene whom you have a stitch at is nothing to the prejudice of that translation of the Rubrick 4. That D r Whitaker when he was a young man was set by his Vncle the Deane of Pauls to translate it again into Latine which makes you thinke that other version was either exhausted or misliked Misliked you cannot say till you bring a reason and if it was so soone exhausted it is a good argument that it was well done and universally received Lastly you fly to your old shift affirming that those times considered the Liturgie was translated rather to comply with the forraigne than to reigle and direct the English Churches Which were it so yet it makes nothing to this purpose For whether it be pars septentrionalis the northerne part or latus septentrionale the northerne side it must be equally displeasing to the forraigne Churches for you meane onely those of the Church of Rome in which the Priest officiating is injoyned to stand in medio Altaris with his back towards the people being a different way from that prescribed the Minister in the Liturgie of the Church of England Certes you doe but dallie in all you say and shew your selfe a serious trifler but a sorry disputant Securi de salute de gloria certemus I must have one pull more with you about this Rubrick and since you give so faire an hint about the Statute which confirmes it The Parliament 1. of Qu. Elizabeth began at Westminster Ian. 23. An. 1558. and there continued till the 8. of May next following in which there passed the Act for uniformity of Common prayer and service of the Church and administration of the Sacraments cap. 2. Together with this Act there passed another inabling the Queene to delegate what part she pleased of her supreame power in Ecclesiasticis to such Commissioners as she should appoint according to the forme in that Act laid down Presently on the dissolving of the said Parliament the Queene sets out a booke of Injunctions aswell to the Clergie as to the Laitie of this Realme in one of which Injunctions it is cleere and evident that howsoever in many and sundry parts of the Realme the Altars of the Churches were removed and Tables placed for the administration of the Sacrament yet in some other places the Altars were not then removed upon opinion of some other order to be taken by her Majesties Visitours This put together I would faine have leave to aske this question The Rubrick ordering that the Minister should stand at the north-side of the Table there where tables were and in so many places of this Kingdome the Altars standing as before where should the Minister stand to discharge his duty Not in the middle of the Altar as was appointed in the Liturgie of K. Edw. An. 1549. That was disliked and altered in the Service-booke of the yeere 1542. confirmed this Parliament Nor on the North-side as you cal a side for that supposeth such a situation as was not proper to the Altar Therefore it must be at the northern end or narrower side thereof as before was said or else no Service to be done no Sacraments administred The Parliament was so farre from determining any thing touching the taking downe of Altars that a precedent Act 1 Mar. cap. 3. for punishment of such as should deface them was by them continued This was left solely to the Queene the
use of a table is to eate upon Reasons c. 1550. Vide Acts Monumâ—nts pag. 1211. Pag. 74. The Church in her Liturgie and Canons calling the same a table onely do not you call it an Altar Pag. 17. The Church in her Liturgy and Canons calling the same a Table onely do not you now under the Reformation call it an Altar Pag. 74. In King Edwards Liturgie of 1549. it is every where called an Altar Pag. 17. In King Edwards Liturgie of 1549. it is almost every where called an Altar Pag. 74. The people being scandalized herewith in Countrey Churches first beats them downe de facto then the supreme Magistrates by a kinde of law puts them downe de jure Pag. 17. The people being scandalized herewith in Country Churches first it seemes beat them downe de facto then the supreme Magistrate as here the King by the advice of Archbishop Cranmer and the rest of his Counsell did Anno 1550. by a kinde of law put them downe de jure 4. Ed. 6. Novemb. 24. Pag. 74. And setting tables in their roomes tooke from us the children the Church and Common-wealth both the name and the nature of former Alters Pag. 17. And setting these tables in their roomes tooke away from us the children of this Church Common-wealth both the name and the nature of those former Altars Pag. 75. It is in the Christian Church 200. yeares more ancient than the name of an Altar as you may see most learnedly proved out of S. Paul Origen and Arnobius if you but reade a booke that is in your Church Pag. 18. It is in the Christian Church at the least 200. yeeres more ancient than the name of an Altar in that sense as you may see most learnedly proved beside what we learne out of S. Paul out of Origen and Arnobius if you doe but reade a booke that is in the Church Pag. 76. That your table should stand in the higher part of the Chur you have my assent already in opinion but that it should be there fixed is so far from being Canonicall that it is directly against the Canon Pag. 18 19. That your table should stand in the higher part of the Chancel you have my assent in opinion already And so it was appointed to stand out of the Communion orders by the Commissioners for causes Ecclesiastical 1561 But that it should bee there fixed is so far from being the onely Canonicall way that it is directly against the Canon Pag. 77. This table must not stand Altar-wise you at the North end thereof but table-wise and you must officiate at the North end of the same Pap. 20. This table without some new Canon is not to stand Altar-wise and you at the North end thereof but table-wise and you must officiate on the North side of the same by the Liturgy Pag. 78. And therefore your Parishioners must bee judges of your audiblenesse in this case Pag. 20. And therefore your Parishioners must bee Iudges of your audiblenesse in this case and upon complaint to the Ordinary must be relieved Thus have I shewed in briefe your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your tricks and artifices whereby you seeke to varnish a rotten cause falsifying the very Text which you are to comment on that it may fit your notes the better A pregnant evidence that there is no faire dealing to be looked for from you when you shall come either to repeate your adversaries words or cite your Authors But faire or foule we must goe through with you now we have begun and so on in Gods name CHAP. II. Of the Regall power in matters Ecclesiasticall and whether it was ever exercised in setling the Communion table in forme of an Altar The vaine ambition of the Minister of Linc to be thoâ—ghâ— a Royalist His practise contrary to his speculations The Doctor cleared from the two Cavils of the Minister of Linc touching the Stat. 1. Eliz. The Minister of Linc â—alsifieth both the Doctors words and the Lo Chancellour Egertons The Puritans more beholding to him than the King The Minister of Linc misreporteth the Doctors words onely to picke a quarrell with his Majesties Chappell A second on-set on the Chappell grounded upon another fâ—lsification of the Doctors words Of mother Chappell 's The Royall Chappell how it may be said to interpret Rubricks The Minister of Linc quarrels with Queene Elizabeths Chappell and for that purpose falsifieth both his forraine authors and domestick evidences Not keeping but adoring images enquired into in the first yeâ—re of Queene Elizabeth That by the Queenes Injunctions Orders and Advertisements the Table was to stand where the Altar did The idle answer of the Minister of Linc to the Doctors argument Altars and Pigeon-houses all alike with this Linc Minister The Minister of Linc false and faulty argument drawn from the perusers of the Liturgy the troubles at Franck â—ort and Miles Huggards testimony Of standing at the North-side of the Table The Minister of Linc produceth the Pontificall against himselfe His idle cavils with the Doctor touching the Latine translation of the Common prayer Book The Parliament determined nothing concerning taking downe of Altars The meaning and intention of that Rubrick The Minister of Linc palters with his Majesties Declaration about S. Gregories A copy of the Declaration The sâ—mme and substance of the Declaration Regall decisions in particular cases of what power and efficacy PLutarch relates of Alexander that he did use to say of his two chiefe favourits Craterus and Hephestion that the one of them was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the one a lover of Alexander the other of the King Hephestion loved his person as a private friend Craterus his estate and Monarchy as a publique Minister Princes are then best served when these affections meet together when those that either are about their persons or under their dominions do CrateruÌ„ cuÌ„ Hephestione confundere and love them not alone as men but Princes whom they doe most truly love Both of these parts this Some-body whom I am to deale with would faine seeme to act and he doth act them rightly as a player doth in a disguise or borrowed shape which he can put off when he lists the play be ended But yet for all his vizard it is no hard matter to discerne him his left hand pulling downe what his right hand buildeth all that authority and regard which he bestowed upon the King in the speculation being gone in 〈◊〉 as they say when it should be reduced to practise Of the originall of the Regall power you tell us very rightly that it is from God that the Kings of England have had the flowers of Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction stuck in their Imperiall garlands by the finger of Almighty God from the very beginning of this Christian Monarchy within this Island and that the Kings Majesty may command a greater matter of this nature than that the
with them untill their imbracing of the Christian faith after the utter ruin and subversion of that Nation Why man And doth the Doctor tell you that the said Church or Temple in Eusebius was built before the ruin of that Nation or before any of the Iewes had received the faith You could not be so ignorant as not to know by course of story that the said Church was built above 200. yeeres after the ruine and subversion of the Iewish Nation and therfore it would best becom you either to speak more to the purpose or to hold your peace Yes that you will you say And rather than the Altar in Eusebius shal l stand in the middle of the Chancell to carry some resemblance to the Altar of Incense you will remove the Altar of Incense from the midst of the Temple where it stood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 over against the vaile as before you said and place it close unto the vaile where never any man did place it but your selfe alone For tell mee doe Tostatus and Ribera fasten this Altar to the vaile as you please to tell us Not fasten it to the vaile that 's flat for it was made with rings and staves to bee removed as you are pleased to have the Communion Tables as occasion was Then for your placing of it close along the vaile you finde no warrant in the Scripture The Latine reads it Contra velum our English bookes before the vaile close unto it you that better understand the text than all translatours whatsoever Then for Tostatus whom you cite for fastning it unto the vaile all he saith is this Dicitur Altare istud esse contra velum i. e. ante velum That Altar is here said to be against the vaile that is before it What else Hic ponitur situs hujus altaris scilicet in qua parte Sanctuarii poneretur Here is described the situation of this Altar namely in what part of the Sanctuary it was placed Is this to set it close unto the vaile and there to fasten it we may conjecture how you use Ribera by your faire dealing with Tostatus whom you thus abuse Besides your selfe hath told us that the Altar of Incense did stand between the Table on the North you mean the Table of Shewbread do you not and the Candlestick upon the South and I presume you will not say the Table of the Shewbread and the Candlesticke did stand close unto the vaile or were fastned to it But for these things the Altar and the Table and the Candlesticke how they were disposed of in the Tabernacle you may consult the Schemes thereof in Torniellus Ann. M. 2544. where you will finde the Altar stood not close unto the vaile but a good distance off towards the nether end though not exactly in the midst You might as well have let the Altar in Eusebius stand close along the wall in the middle betweene North and South as the Doctor placed it as have betraied your ignorance both in the Criticisme and the fact to so little purpose yea and your honestie to boot And here I would have left you and Eusebius but that you will not let the Doctor goe away with any thing For whereas the poore Doctor said that the Gate or entrance of this Church like that of Salomons Temple was unto the East you say it is not true and that there is not any such thing in Eusebius You grant that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the Portico was towards the West the leading way or entrance into the Court or Church-yard as we call it now And thinke you they went round about the Church to finde another way at the further end Besides you might have found if you would have sought that there were three dores into the very Church it selfe all of them in the Easterne end 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Authour hath it Finally whereas you had said before that there was nothing true in all this relation but that the word Altar is named in Eusebius now you have taken from him that comfort also that Altar being by and by you say interpreted to be a metaphoricall Altar even 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the sanctification of a Christian soule You might as well have said the Temple there described is a Metaphoricall Temple because the Panegyrist descanting upon it compares the Soule unto that Temple as the sinceritie thereof to the holy Altar We have been long about Eusebius but will be brieser in the rest as briefe as possibly we can your old tricks considered The next that followes is the first Councel of Constantinople as it is called in Bish. Iewel being that sub Agapeto Menna as the Doctor had it Here you conceive you have him at a fine advantage Agapetus being dead before that Councell sate and Menna Patriarch of Constantinople presiding in it But Sir you cannot chuse but know that howsoever Agapetus died before the sitting of the Councell yet it was called especially by his procuring being then at Constantinople although hee lived not to see the effects thereof his Legates also being there by vertue of a Commission to them made when he was alive And this was possibly the reason why Binius in the top of every page throughout the Acts of this whole Councell being 112. in all sets it Sub Agapeto Menna as the Doctor did your next exception if it be not better will be worse than nothing The place alleaged by Bishop Iewell is this that Tempore dyptichoram at the Reading of the Dypticks the people with great silence drew together round about the Altar and gave â—are unto them The Greek text hath it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and to that phrase the Doctor answered that howsoever 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in it selfe did signifie a Circle yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 could not be properly interpreted round about the Altar so that there was no part thereof which was not compassed with the people This he illustrated with a like phrase in our English Idiom of the kings sitting in his throne and all his noble men about him and by the very saying in the Greeke text of the Revelation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 round about the throne Against this you have said but little though you spend many words about it All your great Grammar learning out of Eustathius and Hesychius Tully and Budaeus excellent Criticks all that circles are exactly round without any Corners and that a Circle differs from a semicirâ—le is but your wonted art to divert the businesse For did you not observe that the Doctor granted it that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of and in it selfe did signifie a Circle If so what needs all this adoe The thing in question is not what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth or whether Circles are not round but whether that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 can any way inferre that the Altar stood in
told his name at least not to have sent us to enquire for him in the Biblioth vet Patrum Tom. 2. in Annot. without more punctuall direction You mean I trow the setter forth of the Liturgies in Greeke and Latine and them wee finde indeed in the second Tome of that edition But when you talke I know not how of a setter forth of the Greeke and Latine Liturgies and send us to the Biblioth vet patrum Tom. 2. you bid us looke into a place where no such man was ever heard of the Greek and Latine Liturgies not being found in the second of those Tomes but in the sixt I see you were resolved that whosoever traced you should have much to doe But having found your Author out we finde you had good reason to conceale his name and give us such obscure directions for the finding of him For Genebrard whom you blindly call the setter forth of the Greek and Latine Liturgies hath told us such a tale as will marre your markets For hee divides their Churches into these five parts the first called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the holy Tabernacle so called quod gradibus in illam scandatur because it is mounted up by steps and this is entred into by none but the Priests The second hee entituleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Quire or Chancell properly and distinctly so intituled Locus Clero Cantoribus deputatus a place assigned â—or the clergie and the singing men The third was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the Pulpit-place where the Epistles and Gospels were reade and Sermons preached unto the people â—he fourth called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the body of the Church wherein the people had their places both men and women though distinct and last of all the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or place for Baptisme neere which stood the Penitents Now for the Altars which he speakes of they stood not as you make them stand 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Quire or Chancell distinctly and properly so called and much lesse in the middle of it but in the upper part thereof mounted up by steps and severed from the rest by a vaile or curtaine which place was therefore called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. the Altar-place the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Altarium which before we spake of Illic sunt duo Altaria there in that upper end above the steps stood those two Altars which you talke of not in the middle of the Chancell as you falsly say And there the greater of the two did stand in medio in the midle between North and South as they still continue the lesser which hee cals the Prothesis standing on the left side thereof and thereon stood the bread appointed to be consecrated till it was offred on the Altar Nor doth he say the greater is in the midst and called the holy Table and no more but so but majus est in medio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sacra mensa c. the greater of them is in the midst and is called the Altar the holy Table the Holy of Holies with many other names which are there attributed to it Where you may see that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath precedencie of sacra mensa though you are pleased to leave out Altar as if he called it onely the holy Table this said your evidence out of Gentian Hervet will bee easily answered And here I cannot chuse but tell you that herein you have shewne most foulely either your ignorance or your falshood If you conceived that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there did signifie the whole Chancel then it shews your ignorance if that you knew it signified no more than the upper part in quod gradibus scanditur and yet set downe with in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Chancell as you have translated it then you shew your falshood And so I leave you with an Vtrum horum mavis accipe make your best of either or if you will take both being both your owne The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which you find in Gentian Heâ—vet is that which you had met with in your setter forth a place distinguished from the Chancell and raised above it within the which the said two Altars stood which your Author speaks of and stood as you were told before one of your Authors borrowing from the other both his words and matter though indeed one of them was no Altar but a Table only a Table either of proposition or of preparation no great matter which Next let us looke upon the Latines and their use herein from whom the English first received the faith of Christ as your selfe confesse calling their Austin the Apostle of the Saxons p. 223. And herein to begin with wee have gained thus much that neither the Tables heretofore nor the high Altars afterwards did stand in the midst of the Church or Chancell but so farre from the wall at least as the Priests and Deacons might stand round about them Wee hope you will come home in time First you had placed the Altar in the midle of the Church then you removed it very fairely into the middle of the Chancell and now you have advanced it so neere the wall as there is onely roome for the Priests and Deacons to goe between I finde you comming on apace but that shall not helpe you for I am bent to trust to nothing that you say till I have examined it no though it made unto my purpose Now for the proofe of this you bring us in some Authours and some precedents Amongst your Authors Walafridus Strabo hath been heard alreadie who saith no more but that in the first times the Altars in the Church were placed ad diversas plagas according as poore men they could fit themselves but makes the generall use to be otherwise as beâ—ore was said And so do Bellarmine and Suarez too two other of your Authours as it relates unto the Churches which generally they say are built ad orientem some few excepted which could not otherwise bee erected But Bellarmine I assure you doth not speak one word in the place â—y you cited touching the fixing of the Altars in any posture propter commoditatem loci if the convenience of the place require it That 's an addiâ—ion of your owne no such thing in Bellarmine And howsoever Suarez seeme to looke that way yet he acknowledgeth withall that placing of the Altar at the East end of the Church was the ancient Custome For Vice-comes he doth take it as you say for a very cleere and indubitable asâ—ertion Altaria medio in templo allocata fuisse that Altars were placed heretofore in the midst of the Church And he doth take it too I say for as indubitable and as cleere non nisi Constantini temporibus coepisse Christianos missam publice in Ecclesia conâ—icere that till the time of Constantine the Christians did not celebrate the Sacrament in their