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A68566 A briefe discouery of the vntruthes and slanders (against the true gouernement of the Church of Christ) contained in a sermon, preached the 8. [sic] of Februarie 1588. by D. Bancroft and since that time, set forth in print, with additions by the said authour. This short ansvver may serue for the clearing of the truth, vntill a larger confutation of the sermon be published. Penry, John, 1559-1593.; Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610. Sermon preached at Paules Crosse the 9. of Februarie. Selections. 1590 (1590) STC 19603; ESTC S114383 37,378 68

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that they who would bee taken for Leuites and gouernours of the holy Temple should haue a hād in this trespasse You haue streined your conscience to far I feare me in going about to make vp the credite of Bishop Coopers admonition to the people of England Page 24. A large conscience I perceiue hath along hand to reach a distinctiō a far of Let the reader consider the place If you set downe any thing that is Annabaptisticall or Popish it were meete you should confute it Page 25. least the simple auditors should take it for your own doctrine rather then other mens errours Nowe I come to that part of your Sermon where you deale concerning the triall of spirits D BANCROFT page 33. lin 26. pag. 34. lin 19. 41. lin 17. The popish false Prophets wil suffer the people to try nothing but teach them wholly to depend vppon them The giddy spirits woulde haue men to be everseeking and searching The meane therefore betwixt both these extremities I holde to be best And this it is that when you haue attained the true grounds of Christian Religion and are constantly built by a liuely faith vpon Iesus Christ 1. Cor. 3. being incorporated into his mis●●eal body by your baptisme and afterwards nourished with the Lords Supper you then content your selfe and seeke no farther c. ANSVVERE It is well known that wee allow neither popish norgiddy spirites no nor yet slaunderous and lying spirites As for the rule of the popishe false Prophets you haue squared your doctrine page 43. just according vnto the same as the reader shal perceiue in the proper place You haue plotted vs out heere such a meane betweene two extreamities as they must needes bee meane Christians that will go no further then the resting place which you haue set downe for them I will not say heere that the Papistes will graunt the miserable people vnder them leaue to goe thus far which is true but this I will say that this doctrine of yours tendeth wholly to remooue an able Ministerie out of the Church and so consequently to robbe the people both of the scepter of Christs gouernement and also of his word For if the people neede no more nay if it bee vnlawfull for them to go any further then to bee baptised and after they haue attained vnto the true groundes of Christian religion are engraffed into Christ to receiue the Lordes supper to what vse serueth the preaching of the word And to what end should the Apostle require Phil. 1.9.10 that the word of God should dwell plentifullie among Christians and pray that our loue maye abound more and more in knowledge Phil. 1.6 and in al feeling that we may discerne things that differ that we may bee pure and without offence vntill the day of Christ filled with the fruits of righteousnes c. If you could once M. Bancroft bring this meane of yours to take place then indeede might you place readers insteed of Preachers ouer the people without controllement and say that they need no other teaching because they are baptised engraffed into Christ and fed with the heauenly foode exhibited vnto them in the Lords Supper and what need they more For Tertullian saith Page 42. that we need not be curious after we haue apprehended Christ nor in quisitiue after we haue receiued the gospell But a miserable teacher are you that in such sort doe open a windowe vnto the deuill and mans corruption to breake faith into all impietie and wickednesse For how shall either the rage of sathan against vs or the rebellion of our owne corruptions within vs be restrained but by that mighty scepter of Christs word preached euen vnto vs that haue receiued the first fruits of the spirit If you had euer knowne what it had bene to receiue Christ truly and to retain him being receiued you would neuer haue endeuoured to seduce your auditors in this monstrous popish sort But because the light of your owne conscience doth tell you that christians cannot containe themselues within this prison wherein you haue shutte them You set downe a good supply of the want of teaching if men would desire to be resolued in anye matter of doubt your owne wordes or rather your popery I will set downe D. BANCROFT page 42. 43 line 24. God hath bound himselfe vnto his church of purpose that men by hir good direction Councels might in this point that is in maters of dout be relieued to whose godly determinatiō in maters of question her dutiful children ought to submit themselues without any curious or wilfull contradiction Neither can I see nowe that popery is bannished and the trueth of christian religiō is godly planted amongst vs why in these dais we shuld not attribute as much to the decrees of our learned fathers in their lawfull assemblies as other men in times past of as great iudgement as wee are haue done ANSVVERE You account the Papists to be false Prophets because they will suffer the people to trie nothing Page 33. but teach them wholly to depend vppon them you do wel in it But if this touching coūcels be not to ioin hand with them in the point wherin you pretend to bee their aduersary if this be not to teach men to beleeue as their mother the church doth let the reader iudge The Bishop of Rome desireth no more to bee graunted vnto him for the authoritie of his councels thē you haue set down in expresse terms And if the Lorde hath bound himselfe by his promise vnto his Church of purpose that men should be directed therby I would demaund of you whether this promise was that the Church should direct them vnto truth or vnto errour If you say vnto truth otherwise it were no promise I demand then how the Church can erre For either the Lord must breake his promise if hee hath made any or els the Church cannot erre in the direction of her dutifull children Now if you say that the Church cannot erre the reader knoweth what account to make of you if she be subiect vnto errors to what end should we stand to her determination in matters of question any further then we are assured that her decrees are according vnto the word Now if it be lawfull for vs otherwise our bondage should bee intollerable to trie whether her determinations bee according vnto the word and to reiect them if they bee otherwise to what ende doe you carry vs from the sure foundacion of the worde vnto the vncertaine and vnconstant voice of the Church surely if you would know what I conceiue of you for this the like points of doctrine in your Sermon my opinion is that you are not far from a close papist how vehement so euer you speake against thē and whosoeuer they were that allowed your Sermon to be published they may iustly feare least the Papists doe ere it be long make too great