et ordinariâ oratione quasi fundamento accidentium ius est desideriorum ius est superstruendi extrinsecus petitiones It was neuer heard of till now that the Lords Prayer should be the onely Prayer a man ought to vse vpon occasion It is a contrary Extreme It was not giuen to be vsed at all The Angels in heauen the soules of the Righteous Christ Iesus in the garden the three children in the fiery furnace vse repetitions of their praiers A sanctis pete perfectis exemplum Vse them a-Gods-name Do as they haue done A good thing cannot be repeated too often I doo not knowe any Puritan will dislike it I haue knowne as great Puritans as any were vse the Lords Praier twice at euery Sermon in the beginning at the end and yet I knowe it was the Puritan opinion at first that The Lords Praier was not so often to bee repeated as it is in our ordinary Seruice T. C. wrote this lib. 1. pa. 136. What reason is this we must repeat the Lords Praier oftentimes therefore oftentimes in half an houre and one in the neck of another Doth your Proposition driue at this Driue a-Gods Name till you driue it down we go with you For it is a singular vpstart nouell Puritan quarrell as infinite other are against the Church in all Ages against the doctrine and discipline of the Church But what is this to Protestants Against Protestants your Gag is directed not Puritans and yet all your addresses well-neer are against Puritan Positions malitiously imputed to Protestants and yet your selues among your selues make a difference betwixt Protestants and Puritans professing If it were not for the Protestant you would not esteem what the Puritan could say and truely For the Protestant commeth vp to you on your owne grounds and vndertaketh you at your own weapons so that you haue no help against him but to bely him with your Proselytes So you began so you continued and so you end this petty Pamphlet For otherwise you may knowe that this very point of often repeating the Lords Praier hath by vs been maintained against Puritan detraction more than by Papists especially by those two Worthies of their time the most reuerend Lord Archbishop Whitgift of blessed memory and that incomparable Hooker concerning whom I may much rather say than of his Works of whom it was said and made by Paulus Thorius Praeter Apostolicas post Christi tempora chartas Huic peperere libro sacula nulla parem In whose words I conclude to this babbler Twice we rehearse it ordinarily and oftner as occasion requireth more solemnity or length in diuine seruice not mistrusting till these new curiosities sprāg vp that euer any man would think our labour heerin mis-spent the time wastfully consumed and the office it self made worse by so repeating that which otherwise would more hardly bee made familiar to the simpler sort for the good of whose Soules there is not in Christian Religion any thing of like continuall vse and force throughout euery houre and moment of their whole liues I meane not onely because Prayer but because this very Prayer is of such efficacy and necessity Know this Sir Gagger that this is our opinion o◠repeating Prayers this our doctrine touching the Lords Prayer repeated or to bee repeated That giddy conceit taken vp by the Puritan faction sometime is none of ours as the faction it self is none of ours no more then Donatists Meletians or Nouatians were antiently the Catholique Church or their fooleries to be imputed to the Church The Factionists would were the innouating humor predominant in them peraduenture prescribe a forme of Religion to Christ Iesus himself were he on earth againe though but to last for a day vnlesse happly they disagreed which fancy should haue precedency For euery Crow thinketh her owne bird fayrer then the neighbours But to conclude with your Fathers that affirme God knoweth what you are to prooue which yet wee desire you not to doe for there is no such neede against vs that It is not superstitious nor yet superfluous to repeat one and the same Prayer oftentimes For this Lactantius is cited lib. 4. de diuinâ institut cap. 28. but might haue beene spared In that Chap. he disputeth against that deriuation which Cicero gaue of superstitiosus That they were called superstitiosi qui totos dies immolabant et precabantur vt sui liberi sibi superstites essent For saith hee Quid mihi afferet causae cur precari pro salute Filiorum semel religiosi et idem decies facere superstitiosi esse hominis arbitretur What reason can Cicero giue mee why it should bee counted religious piety to pray once and superstition to pray often Si enim semel facere optimum est quanto magis saepius Which testimony is direct as may be for praying often but not for saying the said prayer often yet this should be proued not that This is after the Puritan Cut not that Howsoeuer it may touch our Factionists who regard n o Fathers it concerns not vs who respect the one vse the other who profess with the same Lactantius Multiplicata obsequia demerentur potius quam offendunt The next is S. Amb. lib. de Sp. sanct cap. 20. Howsoeuer you haue playd the Idle-pack Addle-head Ignaro or Negligent in the course of your book yet as good Orators in a bad cause lay the strength they haue or can make in the beginning and latter end so should you but who can haue more of a cat then her skinne of a Blunderer then that which is next hand Saint Ambrose wrote three bookes to Gratian the Emperor de spiritu sancto This poore Innocent knew no such matter supposing hee had wrote but one nor caring vnto whom hee wrote it Saint Ambrose lib. de spiritu sancto cap. 20. saith Who can tell what I say Who can tell For the first booke hath 20. Chapters iust in the 20. nothing is that tendeth this way In the second book there are but 12. There can bee nothing in any 20. Chapter there The third hath chapters 23. but nothing touching repetition of Prayers or Prayers at all The truth is beside these bookes there is in some editions another tract without Chapters at all a very very short one de spiritu sancto by some supposed a fourth book to be added vnto the other three by others a seuerall headlesse discourse none of Saint Ambrose doing howsoeuer it be whose-soeuer it should seeme the book which the man would designe For not farre from the end hauing recited that text of Esay 6. Holy holy holy Lord God of Sabbath hee inferreth the custome of the Church for the Trisagium in their ordinary Letany Vnde etiam tractum est per omnes fere Orientales Ecclesias et nonnullas Occidentales vt in oblationibus sacrificiorum quae Deo patri offeruntur vna cum sacerdote voce populus vtatur id est Sanctus sanctus sanctus Dominus Deus
likely to see The poore man can afford vs no Fathers heere his reading it seemeth would not reach vnto that and his good Masters were not at hand to help him I could furnish him if hee would thank mee to better purpose then his Scriptures haue but want I suppose he will rather then be beholding to a Protestant To conclude wee will not deny him that Euery man hath his Angell-keeper but within the Church at least not rambling abroad Are they not all of them ministring spirits sent forth to minister To whom where Not to euery man vnder heauen but with restriction Who shall be heyres of saluation In offensiue sort against their foes in defensiue manner for their good Thus the Scriptures speake and no otherwise thus the Fathers taught and no otherwise Not Euery man but Euery Christian man at his Birth or at his Baptisme hath his Guardian Angell deputed to him XXIIII That the holy Angels pray not for vs. WIth Ly and all Sir Gagger Not pray for vs Now I pray you who saith so No man will say or think so that beleeueth in his Creed The communion of Saints and can tell what connexion of the two parts of the Church of the Redeemed there is the one militant heere in Earth the other Regnant and Triumphant in Heauen Now a principall part of that Communion and Society which they haue with vs is to recommend our state and necessities vnto God our Father To which end God Almighty hath as wee professe in our Collect vpon Michaelmas Day appointed the Seruice of men and Angels in a wonderfull sort But somewhat there was or the man mistook Their Praying for vs may bee considered two waies either in Generall or in Particular For the peace of Sion the prosperity of Ierusalem the state and condition of the Church militant in earth thus in generall For Manasses in Captiuity Hezechiah beleaguered by Senacherib For this man or that man in particular vpon speciall motiues and occasions and that likewise two waies either ordinarily and of common course or specially by Delegation in extraordinary seruice Now this Proposition Holy Angels pray for vs doth not limit nor explaine the tearmes but is ambiguous as this peddler most an end frameth all in his Pack to calumniate and to deceiue Whether All Angels pray for All men or All for some men or some for all or some for some who can tell that was not of counsell to his pen and purpose As it lyeth lurking in fraudulent tearmes I can answere both waies and contradictory waies First Holy Angels pray not for vs and truly too Nor shall this Goose hiscere against my answere viz. Not euery holy Angell in speciall for euery man in particular Not at all times vpon any or all occasions I can also answer and truly too Holy Angels pray for vs. And so this Gagger may goe shoo the Goose That is It is a principall part of their performance in Heauen as they magnifie their Maker eternally so to recommend vnto Him vncessantly the Estate and good beeing of the Church of the Redeemed as yet in great Tribulations I adde yet further At all times some of them pray for the particular estate of some priuate Men Cities States Societies or Countries And the Holy Angell-keepers for their speciall charges commended vnto their trust by God at sometime some of them for all for some vpon special occasion employment or designation as extraordinarily they may and doe vndertake Now to come home to your loose laxe affirmation Your expresse words in our Bible are not so expresse as to speake to your purpose that of Zachar. 1. 9. 10. runneth thus O Lord of hosts how long wilt thou net haue mercy vpon Ierusalem and on the Cities of Iuda against which thou hast had indignation these 70 yeeres For it followeth not because this one Angell prayed for Ierusalem in Captiuity any Angel doth pray for any or euery man This was extraordinary your supposall must bee ordinary This was occasionall for his employment your Angels must not bee so allotted Happely this was their Angell-Guardian Michael Prince of the Synagogue Pleade thus for Angell-keepers none will gayn-say you They pray for vs no question at all This was in a peculiar case for restoring Ierusalem and Iuda according to promise in appointed time 70 yeeres designed by the Prophets So the question was idle like your selfe Whether this were not a Prayer The question well ordred should haue beene Whether All Angels at all times doe not in particular pray for euery particular man as this Angell heere did for Sion To the former wee answere positiuely Yea to the second negatiuely No. Nor can this instance euict that Tobie 12. 12. Raphael telleth Tobias thus When thou didst pray and Sara thy daughter-in-law I did bring the remembrance of your praiers before the Holy One. First what an Addle-head are you that trump in the Protestants way with this Testimony which your Masters can tell you for happely your ignorance knoweth not so much they esteem of no otherwise than a Talmudicall Tale Secondly how can you accord this Tale with your owne Tenents Raphael both speaketh heer as their Angell-keeper and carrieth himself so in that whole negotiation Raphael was of the highest Hierarchy next to Michael and Gabriel in your account Your selues teach that Angels of that Hierarchie are not Custodes nor imploied vnto men but all imployed ordinarily are of the inferiour and lowest rank Riddle me riddle mee what is this You told vs of one that could vntie knots let him vntie this or cut it in pieces for it troubleth vs not a little That Angell Reuel 8. 4. from whose hands the smoke of incense ascended which is expressed to haue been the prayers of Saints who was he can you tell mee whether the Angell of the Couenant Christ Iesus himself or Michael the Protector of the Church do you knowe or some other Angell are you assured Was his imployment ordinary or extraordinary can any tell Mysticall you may be sure this Passage is and can you draw Arguments from such Testimonies Your great vnderstanding doth happely think Yea the common resolution is for Nay But howsoeuer the praiers of all Saints that is of the Church were offred to God in the hands of an Angell their Mediator therefore All Angels pray for all men or some Angels for some men ordinarily I deny the necessity of this doctrine When you say more you shall heare further but much more I beleeue you cannot for you fail of your wonted Cue See more and See Fathers that affirm it neither Scripture nor Fathers heer In Conclusion from whence drew you forth this imputation that The holy Angels pray not for vs For Bellarmine your Polstar and Cynosura in point of Controuersie doth confesse It is not denied that Sancti and so Angell orant pro nobis saltem in genere secundum Scriptur as And those that assent as most doo aâ— the
maintained and iustifiable Article 32. Bishops Priests and Deacons are not commanded by Gods Lawe eyther to vow the estate of single life or to abstaine from marriage Therefore it is lawfull also for them as for all other Christian men to marry at their owne discretion as they shall iudge the same to serue better vnto godlinesse I finde no vow mentioned in this Article nor leaue giuen to marry notwithstanding vow it is your addition to scandalize the Doctrine which otherwise you durst not touch Marriage is honourable amongst all men This you doe not deny that single life is essentiall vnto the Clergie and indispensable none of your side affirmeth that I know but nonus Dogmatistes in Italiâ as Cassander calleth him Francisco Tunia◠the Iesuite It is but an Ecclesiasticall sanction this both you and we set downe It is not deined but notwithstanding that generall licence to all the Church may restraine marriage vnto some at some time vpon some occasions as wee vse in our Colledges at this day which is no restraint but a condition tendred Leaue your fellowship if you marry The Primitiue Church vsed I deny not this conditionall restraint in some cases to some men vpon some occasion they might so doe without tax or blame and so may you or wee for ought I know with moderation or discretion So the question is not Whether Priests may marry but Whether it bee conuenient for them so to doe You say no neuer at no time Wee deny this rigor and leaue it indifferent to their owne discretion resoluing that at some time for some causes it is conuenient and to bee permitted to some men at some time for some considerations it may be denied to marry Your Church for reasons best known to her selfe though apparant enough to all hath a long time doated vpon single life of Priests for I cannot say chaste and the better to secure her selfe of that state hath laid a tye of conscience a band by oath vpon them admitting none to holy orders but such as first solemnly take that vow which hath many times often filled your Churches with knaues and dunses abundantly honester men and discreet Scholars refusing such a tye Wee aduise you not to break your vow perswade not your selues so we counsell and aduise you by all meanes to keep it liue honest marry freely if you be free if not we say not to you Do as Alexander did with Gordius knot Cut it in pieces when you cannot vndo it It was ill to vow so vnaduisedly worse to force you to it on no necessity yet worse to break it securely with presūptiō butworst of all adhinnire after fresh maidenheads or neighbors beds cōtinually We say you did ill to vow absolutely that which was not in your power to performe a mischief past that cannot bee remedied must bee relieued what it may If you haue vowed keepe it on Gods name it is sinne to breake it I make no question of it which was deliberately discreetly possibly promised in things not against nature common right or reason for euen in a bond a condition euill impious or impossible is voyd and bindeth not they say I deny not vowes in the new Testament they may bee meanes vnto and parts of Gods worship as well in the new Testament as the old So Gregory Nazianzen imposed a vow vpon himselfe not to take the name of God in vaine and kept it So haue many other lawfully and profitably done doe you so and we commend you for it The Texts you produce doe not one of them speak of the marriage of Priests or religious persons or any other that vowed chastity vnto God of vowes they speake and of vowes to be kept but Quid haec ad Bacchum Your promise was your vndertaking is to prooue by expresse words of our owne Bibles that the vowes of Priests and religious persons touching single life should bee kept and yet neyther doe wee deny the one nor you prooue the other See your honesty in this also and insufficiency to performe XL. That fasting and abstinence from meates is not grounded vpon holy Scripture nor causeth any spirituall good FAsting is abstaining from all meates or from som certaine meates the first istruly Fasting which must bee limited and confined to a time for so totally to fast is impossible The second is dieting rather then fasting and yet is that which this man principally meaneth by Fasting as speaking according to the tongue of Ashdod in the Church of Rome that is more for appearances then true substances Fasting is manifold obiectiuely as it hath beene practised by Iewes by Pagans by Christians This man should speak of the Christian Fast onely but huddleth all altogether without distinction Fasting is distinct subiectiuely Among Christians there is or may be vnderstood a naturall a morall an ecclesiasticall Fast for necessity for remedy conueniencie policy piety This addle-headed Fellow cares not to put a difference between the kindes nor to adde quantity to his position that men might know where to haue him and finde what he should say He cannot be ignorant that we commend Fasting as a profitable help vnto deuotion and piety Hee cannot chuse but knowe that wee command it not onely for ciuil but religious ends and vse it in times of speciall note for fitting dispatches of principall alloy In our Ember-weeks for giuing of Orders in our Lent to humble our selues against Easter vpon the Vigils of Saints and other set daies which we ground vpon Scripture and vse to this purpose To cause spirituall good So Scriptures and Fathers serue to no purpose being brought to proue that which is not denied We ground it on Scripture but not that alleaged of the Rechabites We haue warrant sufficient from Christian practice and direction We need no addresse to Iewish either Nazarits or else Rechabites for example and if we should yet what haue we to do with this pretended They drank no wine at all none of them for euer as the Icthyophagi of Aethiopia eat no flesh a generall custome no Fast They did it out of a politick respect because they were strangers in the Land Wee must haue a religious example to serue our turn And lastly they were yet vnder the Law the Vow of the Nazarite might as well bee pleaded and all Iewish Ceremonies for obseruation vnto Christians So ignorant is this Idle-pate Otherwise wee ground Fasting vpon holy Scripture and could adde many moe places of Fathers to be seen the true end and intent whereof is double 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bee anointed with the holy Ghost and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bee washed and rinsed from our sinnes but it needs not It sufficeth onely we confesse most willingly the ground of Fasting to be diuine the vse of Fasting to be singular So these goodly proofs touch not vs at all Vse them against those that vse not Fasts for lastly it is our practice XLI That Iesus Christ