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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A18933 The conuerted Iew or Certaine dialogues betweene Micheas a learned Iew and others, touching diuers points of religion, controuerted betweene the Catholicks and Protestants. Written by M. Iohn Clare a Catholicke priest, of the Society of Iesus. Dedicated to the two Vniuersities of Oxford and Cambridge ... Clare, John, 1577-1628.; Anderton, Lawrence, attributed name.; Anderton, Roger, d. 1640?, attributed name. 1630 (1630) STC 5351; ESTC S122560 323,604 470

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with_o waldo_n so_o descend_v to_o luther_n day_n see_v by_o this_o plain_a method_n the_o reader_n may_v at_o the_o first_o sight_n and_o sensible_o observe_v that_o he_o have_v omit_v contrary_a to_o the_o title_n of_o his_o book_n eleven_o hundred_o year_n without_o give_v any_o one_o instance_n of_o protestancy_n for_o all_o those_o several_a age_n therefore_o he_o crafty_o begin_v to_o instance_n in_o the_o time_n before_o luther_n and_o so_o rise_v upward_o some_o four_o hundred_o year_n from_o this_o day_n in_o his_o pretend_a example_n thus_o hope_v that_o the_o vulgar_a reader_n will_v either_o through_o not_o peruse_v the_o book_n to_o the_o end_n or_o through_o want_n of_o judgement_n not_o so_o easy_o and_o instant_o espy_v how_o far_o and_o no_o further_o he_o have_v proceed_v in_o these_o example_n now_o touch_v his_o example_n he_o first_o instance_v in_o hus_n and_o 30._o jerome_n of_o prage_n who_o live_v anno_fw-la domini_fw-la 1400._o that_o be_v some_o hundred_o and_o twenty_o year_n or_o thereabouts_o before_o luther_n apostasy_n to_o this_o example_n of_o hus_n in_o which_o the_o pamphlete_a chief_o insist_v for_o as_o for_o jerome_n of_o prage_n he_o but_o embrace_v some_o of_o hus_n his_o error_n as_o learn_v they_o from_o he_o i_o first_o answer_n that_o suppose_v hus_n have_v broach_v all_o point_n of_o protestancy_n yet_o follow_v it_o not_o that_o luther_n have_v receive_v the_o say_a doctrine_n from_o hus_n by_o a_o uninterrupt_a descent_n of_o belief_n as_o this_o author_n pretend_v for_o it_o may_v well_o be_v that_o hus_n his_o error_n be_v extinct_a in_o respect_n of_o any_o beleiver_n before_o luther_n day_n even_o as_o aerius_n deny_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o the_o heretic_n manichaeus_n freewill_n as_o 46._o s._n austin_n witness_v yet_o be_v those_o heresye_n utter_o extinguish_v for_o many_o age_n till_o luther_n revive_v they_o second_o the_o article_n which_o hus_n mantayn_v different_a from_o the_o roman_a 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four_o if_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n may_v be_v iustify_v in_o hus_n or_o in_o waldo_n wicklefe_v or_o in_o any_o other_o hereafter_o obtrude_v for_o a_o protestant_n by_o this_o pamphleter_n because_o eich_n of_o they_o teach_v two_o or_o three_o at_o the_o most_o of_o protestant_n point_n then_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n may_v the_o protestant_a church_n de_fw-mi say_v to_o have_v be_v visible_a in_o the_o arian_n fulga_n for_o reject_v of_o tradition_n &_o for_o perpetrate_v many_o sacrilege_n against_o the_o sacrament_n altar_n and_o priest_n in_o pelagius_n pelag._n for_o teach_v every_o sin_n to_o be_v mortal_a in_o vigilantius_n vigilant_a for_o condemn_v all_o religious_a virginity_n and_o affirm_v the_o relic_n of_o saint_n be_v not_o to_o be_v worship_v in_o the_o manichee_n for_o deny_v of_o freewill_n and_o in_o diverse_a such_o other_o 46._o all_o brand_a heretic_n and_o register_v for_o such_o by_o the_o orthodoxal_a father_n of_o the_o 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manner_n and_o clergy_n of_o those_o time_n and_o for_o such_o their_o proceed_n he_o term_v they_o protestant_n and_o this_o method_n he_o mighty_o observe_v throughout_o his_o whole_a pamphlet_n idle_o infer_v as_o if_o faith_n which_o resid_n in_o the_o understanding_n be_v not_o different_a from_o manner_n and_o conversation_n which_o rest_n in_o the_o will_n or_o that_o abuse_v in_o manner_n will_v not_o ever_o be_v in_o some_o member_n of_o the_o church_n or_o final_o that_o a_o protestant_n for_o charge_v of_o some_o minister_n of_o his_o part_n with_o disorder_n of_o life_n or_o puritan_n for_o their_o bitter_a invergh_v against_o the_o bishop_n here_o in_o england_n be_v therefore_o to_o be_v repute_v roman_a catholic_n so_o loose_o and_o weak_o he_o dispute_v herein_o but_o all_o these_o his_o digression_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o undertake_a subject_n of_o his_o discourse_n be_v mere_o extravagant_a and_o in_o my_o judgement_n his_o intention_n in_o these_o and_o other_o 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almost_o as_o much_o paper_n in_o quantity_n as_o that_o which_o be_v print_v and_o all_o this_o as_o probable_o may_v be_v conjecture_v to_o the_o end_n that_o this_o his_o learned_a tome_n forsooth_o may_v contain_v some_o indifferent_a number_n of_o leaf_n see_v how_o subtle_a heresy_n be_v in_o trifle_n and_o thing_n of_o no_o moment_n the_o author_n have_v finish_v his_o discourse_n of_o hus_n &_o his_o adherent_n &_o follower_n in_o the_o next_o place_n rise_v to_o the_o waldenses_n 52._o who_o as_o be_v here_o allege_a deny_v purgatory_n transubstantiation_n &_o blessing_n of_o creature_n first_o touch_v transubstantion_n what_o the_o pamphleter_n here_o deliver_v be_v a_o vast_a untruth_n as_o appear_v from_o the_o testimony_n even_o of_o calu_n 〈…〉_z 244._o thus_o write_v formula_fw-la confessionis_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o form_n of_o confession_n of_o the_o waldenses_n doctrine_n do_v involve_v all_o those_o in_o eternal_a damnation_n who_o do_v not_o confese_v that_o the_o bread_n be_v become_v true_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n in_o like_o sort_n touch_v the_o doctrine_n of_o purgatory_n benedictus_n 124._o montargensis_n a_o lutheran_n charge_v the_o waldenses_n therewith_o from_o which_o two_o example_n we_o may_v take_v a_o scantling_n what_o credit_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o pamphleter_n in_o his_o other_o assertion_n hereafter_o but_o grant_v that_o the_o waldenses_n do_v teach_v some_o one_o or_o other_o point_n of_o protestancy_n yet_o in_o regard_n of_o their_o far_a great_a number_n of_o catholic_a article_n ever_o believe_v by_o they_o and_o their_o many_o execrable_a heresy_n condemn_v for_o such_o both_o by_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n both_o which_o point_v this_o pamphleter_n pretermit_v in_o silence_n the_o waldenses_n can_v just_o be_v exemplify_v for_o protestant_n now_o of_o the_o catholic_a article_n as_o also_o of_o the_o heresy_n believe_v by_o the_o waldenses_n see_v the_o dialogue_n above_o in_o the_o
point_v touch_v faith_n and_o religion_n and_o different_a from_o the_o than_o roman_a faith_n wherewith_o waldo_n wicklefe_v hus_n etc._n etc._n be_v then_o charge_v will_v be_v profess_v bele●ued_a and_o mantayn_v in_o these_o day_n by_o the_o enemy_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o therefore_o it_o necessary_o follow_v that_o the_o accusation_n pass_v in_o former_a time_n upon_o waldo_n wicklefe_v hus_n and_o the_o rest_n be_v either_o in_o general_a true_a or_o in_o general_a false_a if_o false_a then_o have_v we_o no_o sufficient_a record_n that_o there_o be_v any_o in_o those_o day_n who_o believe_v any_o point_n of_o protestancy_n if_o true_a then_o certain_a it_o be_v that_o as_o waldo_n wicklefe_v hus_n etc._n etc._n mantayn_v some_o point_n of_o protestancy_n so_o with_o all_o that_o they_o mantayn_v diverse_a explorate_a heresy_n and_o acknowledge_v for_o such_o both_o by_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n second_o the_o pamphleter_n object_v in_o the_o catholic_n name_n in_o this_o sort_n none_o 110._o of_o all_o those_o which_o hitherto_o have_v be_v name_v or_o can_v be_v name_v mean_v for_o protestant_n but_o in_o some_o know_v confess_v and_o undowbt_v opinion_n do_v varye_a from_o you_o and_o therefore_o they_o and_o you_o protestant_n may_v not_o be_v say_v to_o be_v all_o of_o one_o church_n this_o difficulty_n he_o save_v with_o a_o most_o impudent_a and_o bare_a denial_n say_v all_o those_o who_o before_o i_o have_v name_v do_v general_o for_o all_o main_n matter_n teach_v the_o same_o which_o we_o now_o teach_v what_o forehead_n or_o shame_n have_v this_o man_n for_o first_o as_o touch_v waldo_n wiclef_n hus_n and_o their_o follower_n in_o who_o through_o out_o this_o pamphlet_n the_o author_n principal_o insist_v it_o be_v confess_v by_o osiander_n luther_n fox_n and_o other_o protestant_n as_o also_o it_o appear_v by_o some_o of_o their_o own_o write_n that_o they_o agree_v with_o the_o catholic_n in_o most_o point_n of_o catholic_a 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of_o rome_n ad_fw-la hereto_o that_o many_o be_v produce_v for_o protestant_n by_o this_o author_n only_o for_o their_o sharp_o speak_v and_o write_v against_o the_o manner_n and_o conversation_n of_o the_o clergy_n in_o those_o day_n they_o not_o dissent_v from_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o then_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o any_o one_o article_n whatsoever_o &_o ever_o even_o ackuowledge_v the_o primacy_n of_o that_o sea_n to_o all_o the_o former_a point_n i_o may_v adjoine_v this_o follow_a consideration_n that_o suppose_v the_o foresaid_a allege_a man_n be_v protestant_n in_o all_o point_n yet_o do_v they_o not_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n for_o these_o reason_n ensue_v first_o because_o they_o be_v but_o few_o in_o number_n and_o in_o regard_n of_o such_o their_o paucity_n the_o prediction_n of_o the_o amplitude_n largne_v and_o continual_a splendour_n of_o christ_n church_n can_v not_o be_v perform_v in_o that_o small_a number_n touch_v which_o prediction_n peruse_v the_o beginning_n of_o the_o dialogue_n second_o because_o neither_o this_o author_n nor_o any_o other_o protestant_n living_n how_o learned_a soever_o can_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v in_o those_o time_n specify_v by_o this_o pamphleter_n any_o administration_n of_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n practise_v by_o any_o of_o these_o suppose_a protestant_n which_o ever_o necessary_o concur_v to_o the_o existence_n and_o be_v of_o the_o true_a church_n as_o be_v demonstrate_v in_o the_o former_a tract_n three_o because_o the_o former_a man_n can_v but_o serve_v for_o instance_n during_o their_o own_o lyve_n and_o no_o long_o the_o pamphleter_n not_o be_v able_a to_o name_v any_o one_o man_n for_o a_o protestant_n for_o the_o space_n of_o many_o age_n and_o centurye_n together_o which_o point_n be_v so_o impugn_v not_o only_o the_o nature_n of_o christ_n true_a church_n which_o must_v at_o all_o time_n and_o age_n be_v most_o visible_a but_o also_o it_o cross_v the_o title_n of_o this_o pamphlet_n wherein_o the_o author_n undertake_v to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o his_o church_n in_o all_o age_n thus_o far_o now_o good_a reader_n i_o have_v labour_v in_o surueigh_v this_o idle_a pamphlet_n now_o for_o they_o better_a memory_n i_o will_v brief_o recapitulate_v and_o repeat_v certain_a chief_a imposture_n and_o deceatefull_a deportement_n practise_v by_o this_o author_n throughout_o his_o book_n and_o then_o i_o will_v remit_v both_o he_o and_o his_o treatise_n to_o they_o own_o impartial_a judgement_n 1._o first_o then_o i_o may_v remember_v his_o put_a no_o name_n to_o his_o book_n nor_o take_v any_o notize_n of_o the_o then_o late_a conference_n in_o london_n touch_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n nor_o once_o name_v m._n fisher_n and_o m._n sweet_a the_o two_o than_o disputant_n which_o conceal_v cours_n our_o pamphleter_n purposely_o affect_v in_o all_o probability_n see_v otherwise_o he_o may_v well_o think_v that_o the_o set_n of_o his_o own_o name_n down_o especial_o if_o the_o author_n be_v either_o d._n whyte_n or_o d._n feat_o or_o have_v in_o this_o discourse_n particular_a reference_n to_o the_o foresay_a disputation_n may_v soon_o draw_v on_o a_o answer_n to_o his_o pamphlet_n from_o one_o of_o the_o say_v two_o father_n or_o from_o some_o other_o priest_n 2._o second_o you_o may_v call_v to_o mind_n that_o in_o the_o first_o part_n of_o his_o treatise_n he_o labour_v to_o prove_v rather_o the_o inuisibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n than_o the_o visibilitie_n thereof_o contrary_a to_o the_o inscription_n of_o his_o pamphlet_n chief_o to_o intimate_v thereby_o that_o a_o continual_a visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n be_v not_o so_o necessary_o to_o be_v exact_v as_o we_o catholic_n do_v teach_v it_o be_v and_o consequent_o that_o what_o few_o weak_a may●ied_v and_o imperfect_a prouf_n and_o example_n for_o the_o continuance_n of_o protestancy_n he_o be_v after_o to_o allege_v the_o same_o may_v be_v think_v sufficient_a and_o strong_a enough_o for_o the_o establish_n of_o his_o own_o church_n visibility_n 3._o three_o the_o pamphleter_n callenge_v any_o one_o for_o a_o protestant_n who_o do_v but_o hold_v one_o or_o two_o article_n of_o protestancy_n and_o especial_o if_o he_o do_v but_o impugn_v the_o pope_n authority_n or_o do_v write_v against_o the_o manner_n &_o conversation_n of_o the_o clergy_n of_o those_o day_n though_o otherwise_o he_o do_v agree_v with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o all_o article_n of_o faith_n 4._o four_o he_o callenge_v those_o for_o protestant_n who_o be_v condemn_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o other_o error_n then_o be_v mantayn_v by_o the_o protestant_n so_o make_v the_o ignorant_a reader_n believe_v that_o the_o pope_n in_o those_o day_n condemn_v only_o the_o doctrine_n of_o protestant_n for_o heresy_n this_o the_o pamphleter_n do_v to_o the_o end_n that_o the_o number_n of_o the_o professor_n of_o his_o church_n in_o those_o day_n may_v seem_v the_o great_a in_o his_o reader_n eye_n 5._o fyft_o he_o most_o cauteous_o conceal_v the_o catholic_a doctryne_n ever_o believe_v by_o hus_n wiclefe_v waldo_n etc._n etc._n as_o also_o sic_fw-la most_o false_o extenuate_v such_o heresy_n as_o they_o mantayn_v &_o be_v acknowledge_v for_o heresy_n even_o by_o learned_a protestant_n the_o treatizer_n subtel_o forbear_v to_o name_n or_o set_v down_o in_o express_v word_n any_o one_o of_o their_o heresy_n 6._o six_o for_o want_v of_o better_a author_n he_o flee_v to_o the_o testimony_n even_o of_o poet_n as_o chaucer_n da●●es_n petrarch_n urge_v they_o for_o protestant_n only_o by_o reason_n of_o their_o satyr_n write_v against_o the_o suppose_a abuse_n of_o rome_n 7._o seavent_o he_o most_o impertinent_o dilate_v and_o spread_v himself_o in_o long_a and_o tedious_a discourse_n touch_v the_o increase_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o waldo_n hus_n wiclef_n etc._n