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A09876 A discourse, of the true and visible markes of the Catholique Churche vvritten by M. Theod. Beza. Vezelius; De veris et visibilibus Ecclesiae Catholicae notis. English Bèze, Théodore de, 1519-1605.; T. W. (Thomas Wilcox), 1549?-1608. 1582 (1582) STC 2014; ESTC S101560 55,907 134

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they shall proue that there are more wise men than fooles Now then I thinke it doth sufficiently appeare that by this bare successiō which they brag of that true catholike church wherein we must abyde cannot be discerned from the false Churche from which we ought of necessitie to depart But yet before that we conclude this place we muste refell an argument which these Sophisters would haue to be deemed such a one as cannot be ouercome For say they Hovv the fathers vsed the argumēt of personall succession the fathers so dispute from the succession of bishoppes against auncient heretiques But againe what can be more corrupt than this subtle kind of reasoning for this is that which is well knowne euen to children which they are wount to call an elench [a] The fallacie of composition or diuision is a false conclusion made by a wrong application of wordes alleadged or spoken referring that to one which is alleadged or spoken to an other or a fallacy of composition and diuysion First therfore I deny that any of the auncient fathers were mynded to vse the recitall of Bishops but to haue recourse rather euen to the Apostles And why so that the authoritie of doctrine rather than of persons shoulde be mainteined But these men obiect vnto vs the succession of their bishops not in déede bishops so far letting passe the mention of that Apostolicall doctrine that they woulde haue it accounted a wicked thing to demaund it at his handes that woulde proue him selfe to succeed the auncient byshoppes Now I pray you howe many authors of blasphemies haue sit in those chiefe seates of Alexandria Antioche Constantinople yea what seat will these men shew me somewhat more famous where some hereticall bishops haue not helde their seate And as touching the Romish chayre from which these men by a rottē coard hang the catholique church Honorius the [a] Monothelites were certain heretiks about the yeare 565 who affirmed that there vvas but one will and one action in Christ denying that ther was in him two naturall willes and actions which might aunsvvere to his two natures Monothelite openly condemned of the sixt general councell and priuately of Agatho another Roman Bishoppe And Iohn the 22. thinking euill touching the soule of man in like manner condemned of the colledge of Sorbon in Paris were sounde to haue sit in that seate To let passe [a] Liberius for ambitions sake fell into the Arrian heresie Liberius [b] He while Siluerius the Pope liued by the ayde of Belisarius the captaine of the Emperors armie obteined the popedome Vigilius and [c] He meaneth of Anastasius the 2. who fell into the heresie of Arrius and Eutiches which heresies Acatius also him selfe did propound about the yeere 484. Anastasius whom I see of some to be excused although Gratian. 2. Disti 19. reckeneth this last also as an Acatian heretique amongst the condemned Popes But if any man would obiect that these are blotted out of the number of Byshops and therfore are not comprehended in that title or role of succession yet this he shal be inforced to graunt vs to wit that the succession of the seat of Rome was then at the least broken of when these were therefore blotted out which persons notwithstanding they themselues as yet number in their Catologue because they had declined from the Apostolicall doctrine Whervpon followeth that which Tertulian rightly affirmeth that religion ought to be proued or tried not by the persons Tertulian but the persons by religion But here truly I confesse that I do somwhat ouershoot my self for seeing the question is of doctrine what doth this appertaine to the Byshops of the Churche of Rome whome all Christendome knoweth nowe so manye yeeres to haue beene for nothing lesse carefull then for anye doctrine eyther true or false but onely for to establishe and enlarge theire owne tyrannie But they will say no man hath condēned these Popes I confes it For who would haue taken to himself this lawful authority against their tiranny who had perswaded all men that they ought to be iudged of none Therefore there hath bene not of late onely but many ages together not an interruption but a full abruption or renting of the succession of Rome from the body of the catholique true church except peraduenture these men iudge that it is something lesse eyther to belleeue nothing or to teache nothing than to be an Heretique And I beséeche you what impudencie is this True doctrine ought to go before true succession to haue the knowledge of trueth to hang vpon succession wheras on the contrary these men themselues can not deny but that the trueth ought necessarily to go before succession And these Sophisters The Christian church in the time of Christe coulde not be knovvne by the succession of Persons if they had bene in the times of Christ by what Bishoply succession would they haue acknowledged the true church surely not by the title or name of the Leuiticall high priests because that priesthood was then at an end and Christ cannot be called the successour of Aaron vnlesse Iudaisme be agayne established wherefore also he is sayd to be made a high priest Heb. 7.16.17 not according to the order of Leui but according to the order of Melchisedec Therefore the holy men at that time acknowledged the Catholique church without the marke of personall succession to wit by the comparison of the doctrine of the Prophetes with the doctrine of Christe him selfe and the Apostles Which is so farre true that on the contrarye none haue lesse acknowledged Christe than they that haue cleaued to a Byshoply succession Therefore that personall succession is no true and perpetuall marke of the Catholique Church These men happely beeing driuen from the Leuiticall succession will againe obiect another succession from the Prophetes But neyther so shall they speake the truth if they sticke in the persons them selues for the succession of Prophetes was not perpetuall no more than the succession of Priests yea rather it was broken of a long time especially after Malachie They wil also obiect vnto vs that saying Mat. 23.2 The Scribes Pharises sit in Moses chaire But agayne they shold remember the same Christ to haue said Take heed of the leauen of the Pharisees Mat. 16.6 And therefore by that saying of Christ we are not called backe to a succession of persons but to a succession of doctrine But I haue besides an other thing more peremptorye as they them selues speake to aunswere againste that in which these men falsly boast themselues to followe the authoritie of the Fathers in discrying the church by which thing also their wilines may more and more be made manifest I denie therefore The auncient fathers vsed not the argument of personall succession against all heretiques that any of the auncient fathers haue at any time made mention of this succession but either against Schismatiques whilest
lacke this by reason of many letts cast in the way but that to wit the worde it can neuer lacke although he that dispiseth that to wit the Sacrament despiseth both and therefore shall worthily bee iudged out of the Couenant What then truely the Church can neither at any time lack the séeds of the word neither the sowing nor the sowers but yet the sluggishnesse and wickednes of the Pastors chiefly hindereth that we cannot restraine both the sowing and the sowers to an ordinarie succession and calling And this thing falleth out by two meanes By one when the chayres or places be not empty but they which sit in them haue entred in either by the doore or by the window and do either wholly neglect their dutie or mingle cockell with seed or els sowe nothing but poyson as such was the state of the ancient catholique church vnder the moste parte of the vacant gouernments of the iudges afterwards in Iuda vnder the moste of the kings and at the length in the times of Christ being conuersant vpō the earth By the other whē as that ordinary both sowing and also ordinary calling of sowers ceaseth being for a time as it were more than halfe dead for we doe not acknowledge that these things can all together be abolished before the ende of the worlde and such was as we haue sayd the outwarde forme and face of the Church of the tenne Tribes and of the Catholique Church in the captiuitie of Babylon I say therefore that the very same thing hath some times thorow the iust iudgement of God fallen out in the Churche in respect of the sowing and the sowers which often times falleth out in the times of famine and warre to wit that there is vtterly no place for sowing Which when it cōmeth to passe al do not yet die but the hunger staruen that remaine are relieued by the fruits gathered in the haruest of the former yeares euen as heretofore in the times of Ioseph the Egiptians did sow nothing but in the very seuenth yeare of the famine So it behooued Daniell Ezechiell Zorobabell Ezra Nehemia and the remnaunt of the godly in Babylon when an ordinary ministry was wanting to be Prophetes and Pastors vnto themselues ioyning with most feruent praiers the continuall reading and meditation of the holy scriptures as in that story we reade to haue bene done vnlesse we woulde rather say that Moses and the other Prophetes whose wrytinges were then extant although they them selues were dead long a goe were notwithstanding their Pastors in this exile vntill the Lord in his time should haue mercy vpon Syon But amongest these breaches of the Church That the mark of succession and ordinarie vocation is nor abolished by euery fault that may fall out in the minister there is yet muche difference For where the Pastors doe their duties onely negligently or else offend only in manners neuertheles the double mark of the Church which is ordinary and to be séen remayneth By the double mark of the Church I mean the séed and the sowing and also ordination if so bee that these Pastors although negligent bee notwithstanding lawfully called And if they mingle only some leauen The leauen is to be taken beede off but the pastors notwithstanding are to be hard so farre foorth as they sit vppon the chayre not of Peter but of Christ neither doth such a congregation therefore ceasse to bee deemed as a member of the Catholique Churche or els the Catholique visible Church is no where although perhaps no other but negligent Pastors corrupt in maners and mixing some leauen be found throughout all the whole worlde Such were in the times of Christe the Pharisees and Saduces and the Doctors of the Lawe whose Leauen hee teacheth Math. 16.6 must bee auoyded which yet hee commaundeth to bee hearde Mat. 23.2.3 So long as they sit in Moses Chaire But this place peraduenture is not of euery one diligently inoughe marked for it is to bee noted oute of other places that the writinges of Moses and of the Prophetes were reade bee piecemeale in the Synagogues Which thing the Sections noted euen at this daye by a true order in the Hebrewe Bybles doe declare Nowe vnto this pure and sincere reading was added an interpretation full of Leauen of which sorte are these pointes which especiallye in Mathew are plentifully confuted by Christ Therefore Christ commaundeth those thinges to bee heard out of the Pulpit which were by custome syncerely recited out of Moses and the Prophetes in the Synagogues but the Leauen wherewith they did corrupt the puritye of Doctrine to be eschewed So it is not to bee doubted but that that outwarde Worshippe in the Temple was in the times of Christe diligently exercised without Idolatry which also Godly men did diligentlye perfourme although the right vse of the sacrifices and of the whole lawe was vtterly destroyed by the iusticiarie Pharisees and by the S●duces which denied the resurrection that is to say the chiefe ende of sacrifices What maner of marchandize of high priestes office there was then and that againste the prescript of the lawe appeareth by historyes But this fault of persons in so great confusion of thinges did not abolishe the very facts of the priesthoode which did depend not vpon the priest but vpon the ordinance of God For there is some certain mean thing betweene men meerely pryuate and men lawfully called to wit when as some exercising the place of those that be lawfully called are either thorow ignoraunce or thorow winking at them borne with al and in their name execute some publique office as we read that it was ordayned in the lawe of the Romans concerning one Barbarius Philippus of which matter we haue in an other place spoken more fullye Therefore the Church in deed retayned and that in Pharisiisme and Saducisme hir note both of Gods seed and in some sort also of the very sowing thereof although it were some what defaced and yet neyther Pharisijsme nor Saducijsme was a parte of the sound Church But as often as euen openly In the Romish church such a one as now a good while it hath been all the notes of the true Catholique Church are not in some sort defaced onely but euen vtterly taken away as was foretolde by the Apostles the chayre of truth is vtterly destroyed so that on the one side syncere breade is not propounded vnto vs so that a man maye receiue it and on the other side some Leauen is so set before vs that a man may not reiect it but poysons are drunke to men vnwilling of the same who will account the congregation of these Wolues or of those which followe them for the true eyther Catholique or particular Churche Now I affirme that the Popedome that is to saie the Churche of Rome as at this daie they call it hath by little and little growen to be suche a one Seeing that those thinges beeing in deed fulfylled which both