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A81789 The Due right of tithes examined: in a letter from a gentleman to his friend, wherein is proved that Jesus Christ did not work as a carpenter, nor did ever command his Apostles or ministers to work for a livelihood: by way of answer to some passages in Mr. Fishers Baby-baptism. By an aged gentleman, who cannot long expect to have the comfort of ministers of their ministery. 1653 (1653) Wing D2441; Thomason E714_16; ESTC R207243 7,019 13

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Ministery and Ministers of all Christendome page 598. saith You plead That the mouth of the Ox must not be muzzled that treadeth out the corn that it is the will of God that such as preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel I answer it is most true there is a power and liberty allowed for such as serve the Church to eat and to drink and to subsist in case they cannot subsist otherwise at the charges of the Church but it is most commendable and thank-worthy in the Ministery to serve the Church and preach the Gospel freely and as far as it is possible not to be burthensome in this kinde at all as namely in case they have any estates of their own or can improve themselves in any such outward employment labour or lawful calling whereby to obtein a competent livelihood And thus the Apostle Paul and the first Ministers of the Gospel did they laboured working with their own hands as oft as they could conveniently and their own hands ministred to their own necessities and they had some honest outward occupation as also Christ himself had and followed too till he was wholly taken up in travel to preach the Truth Therefore Mark. 6.3 Is not this the Carpenter wherein they wrought at all times saving when they were actually employed in some service of preaching to the World writing disputing visiting c. as is plain to him that consults these Scriptures Acts 18.3 4 and 20.33 34 35. 2 Cor. 11.7 and 12.12 13 18. 1 Cor. 4.11 12. 1 Thess 29. 2 Thess 3.6 7 8 9 10 11 12. Thus far Master Fisher To all which I briefly thus say and hope that which is above written will satisfie all men whose understandings are not blinded and whose judgements are free and unprejudicated doth not fully confute what Mr Fisher hath there written and likewise cited by me and I must needs further say that Mr. Fisher did not do well for to leave out in his allegation of Mark 6.3 the Son of Mary Shall I say he was blind did not see it or that he did it wilfully to deceive his simple followers I leave all men to judge as they please for I am perswaded that Mr. Fisher knoweth full vvell being so vvell acquainted with the Scriptures as himself pretendeth to be that those speeches and sayings were onely used by such as could not endure Christ his teaching and doctrine thereby to disgrace both him and it as is plain in Matthew and Mark in the Verses before and after above-alledged And may not I truly say that some formerly and that some men there were and are of latter times even in our memories that have spoken against the faithfullest and painfullest Ministers and Preachers that have boldly reproved sin hoping thereby to draw men to repentance have they not been scoffed at and called one the son of an Oatmeal-man another the son of a Smith another the son of a Carpenter and by other names according to their fathers Trade or occupation thereby to disgrace them and their Ministery now because they were so called did they therefore labour in their fathers calling surely no. Secondly to his proofs out of the Acts how doth it thereby appear that Paul was either by precept or command to labour in some Trade or Occupation to get his living more then the rest of the Apostles or Disciples As for Mr. Fishers proofs out of the Corinth examine his and mine and approve of them which are most agreeing to the minde of the Spirit of God and the practice of Christ Jesus himself and of his Apostles Disciples and Ministers declared and set down in the New Testament And for Mr. Fishers text 1 Thess 2.9 I desire you to compare mine with his taken out of the same Chapter 6 Verse and that out of Chap. 5.12 13. as also that out of 1 Tim. 5.18 by all which places I hope it will cleerly appear that Ministers ought to have maintenance Now concerning Mr. Fishers last proof viz. 2 Thess 3.6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Verses I say that the Apostle there speaketh not of Ministers but of such that professed themselves to be Christians and yet would live idlely upon the Churches charge if you will but duly read and consider the said Verses Lastly I desire all such men as are so opposite against a Ministery or maintenance for Ministers to consider seriously with themselves what judgements the Lord in Scripture did not onely threaten but brought upon those places and persons who have contemned his faithful Ministers and Messengers taking from them their maintenance which was due unto them from the Law and Gospel or ever did those places and persons enjoy peace and quietness from the Lord till they repented and till the Lords worship was first restored and his Ministers and messengers provided for Let these men declare from Scripture if they can and may not such men be termed worse then Pharaoh for he allowed a portion for the Priests of Egypt Gen. 47.22 Neither did the Heathen Monarchs that ever I read of suffer their Priests to labour for their livelihood but allowed maintenance unto them And will Christians professing the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ labour to deprive his Ministers and Messengers of maintenance forcing them to labour for a livelihood God forbid but I trust the Lord by his Providence hath raised up these men that now are the Supream Power of this Common-weal to perform the Lords will for the setling of a competent maintenance for his Ministers or Messengers to the rejoycing I hope of the hearts of all that truly love and fear the Lord. And that they may so do the good God of heaven and earth make them as so many Zerubbabels and Nehemiahs for the setting up of his worship in purity among us and the upholding of pious able and godly Ministers in the Common-weal over which the Lord hath set them that so not onely we but our posterities may bless and praise the Lord therefore Now leaving what I have written to your self and all others that fear the Lord and whose consciences are unbiassed to judge of what I have written And if it be not according to truth let them not approve of it but if not rather reprove it Farewell From my house the 11th of the sixth Moneth 1653. FINIS
THE DVE RIGHT OF TITHES EXAMINED In a LETTER from a Gentleman to his friend wherein is proved that Jesus Christ did not work as a Carpenter nor did ever command his Apostles or Ministers to work for a livelihood By way of answer to some passages in Mr. Fishers Baby-Baptism By an aged Gentleman who cannot long expect to have the comfort of Ministers or their Ministery Mal. 3.10 Bring ye all the Tithes into the storehouse that there may be meat in mine house and prove me now herewith saith the Lord of Hosts if I will not open you the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing London Printed for Thomas Pierrepont and are to be sold at the Sun in Pauls Church-yard 1654. A Copie of a Letter from a Friend LOving friend amongst the many thoughts which these times doth cause within me nothing doth so much tronble me as that the Adversary of mankinde who transformeth himself into an Angel of light thereby even to deceive the Elect of the Lord if it were possible who hath stirred up in my apprehension many men of parrs and gifts to set themselves against a setled and constant Ministery which God and Christ Jesus hath appointed and promised unto his Church and people for to teach them to observe and do all things whatsoever I have commanded you and said Lo I am with you alway even to the end of the world Matth. 28.20 And this hath lately been attempted by petitioning to the Supreme Power now in being for the taking away of all means and maintenance from those they call Ministers hoping thereby to destroy and put down that Calling which I am perswaded the Lord himself did first institute and ordain And will continue and uphold it even unto the end notwithstanding all their machinations and devices for I am given to understand they are confident that if they can prevail to have all the means taken from them whereby they may have a livelihood that the Ministery will fall of it self that then all gifted men may exercise themselves in their places at pleasure which being but duly considered of all such as truly fear the Lord though themselves at present do not what woful distractions and divisions will follow thereupon my heart even trembleth to think on for if once Maintenance and Encouragement be taken from the Ministery and every man suffered to teach what himself pleaseth and approveth of then may not men teach Atheisme Heathenism Turcism Judaisme Arrianisme Libertimsme Idol-worshipping what else mans corrupt and sensual wils may prompt them unto and vvill not thereby be a fair opportunity given vvith liberty for Jesuites and all Sectaries calling themselves gifted men for to draw Disciples after them and also thereby making men to be factious and causing divisions amongst the people causing thereby disturbances to arise whereby it may be feared but little peace will follow such courses For how can the Lord give a blessing to such disordered doings for God is not the Authour of confusion but of peace And the Lord never appointed but one order worship to his Church people at one time as the whole Scripture testifieth and that the Lord would have men to bestow in his service such temporal things as he had freely given unto them for their use and sustentation wherefore the Lord himself commanded and taught his people at the beginning even before he appointed a Ministery or Ministers for to offer Sacrifices unto him of those clean beasts and fruits of the earth which he had given unto them thereby to manifest themselves his servants and to shew forth their faith and obedience unto him their great Jehovah and Creatour as Gen. 4.3 4. and 8.20 Also Abraham Isaac Jacob and the rest of the Patriarchs offered Sacrifices to the Lord accordingly long before they became a Nation or Common-weal but after that they were multiplied grown by the blessing and promise of the Lord made unto Abraham that his posterity should be a great people and Nation which was accomplished in Egypt from whence the Lord brought and delivered them by his great and mighty power Now the Lord having brought them forth by the conduct of his faithful servant Moses from out of Egype to the Mount Sinai Exod. 19. And the Lord came down upon the Mount Sinai on the top of the Mount And the Lord called Moses up to the top of the Mount and Moses went up And unto Moses the Lord delivered his Law the ten Commandements which are to be kept by all people with the Ceremonial Law appertaining to the Jews And also appointed and commanded Moses to make a Tabernacle with all the utensils thereof and the manner of the Sacrifices and offerings which the people were to offer and to give out of their own proper goods and estates for the maintenance of the Tabernacle and also the Tithes with part of the offerings and fourty eight Cities with their Suburbs which the Lord gave and appointed for the Priests and Levites for the maintenance and subsistance of them and theirs Now if that order and Priesthood of Aaron which was to be abolished had such great maintenance then shall not that order of Ministers which our High Priest Christ Jesus hath set up and appointed over his Church and children have likewise means and subsistence provided for them and theirs in as great a measure they being Ministers under Jesus Christ of his Gospel which is far more glorious then that of the Law And therefore to be provided for as the Gospel teacheth notwithstanding the clamours and petitioning against it by divers who profess the fear of the Lord and seeming to be very forward promoters of the worship of God in the purity thereof but I fear their zeal is not according to knowledge but for their own ends and to set up themselves no nor yet the Gospel-way and let such men declare or shew from Scripture where ever Christ commanded that his Apostles Disciples or Ministers ought not or should not be provided for with means and mainteance if they can or that Christ ever appointed or commanded them to sustain themselves by their own labours or occupations or that Christ Jesus himself ever wrought as a Carpenter And let all such blinde zealous persons take notice what Christ Jesus himself said and did Matth. 4.18 19 20. and Mark 1.17 18. where Christ called Peter and Andrew and said unto them Follow me and I will make you fishers of men and they followed him And can those Zelotes finde in Scripture that ever after that they used the trade of fishing for the maintenance of themselves and theirs but followed their Ministeriall office or Calling Preaching and saying The Kingdome of Heaven is at hand And likewise will it not plainly appear to all men except wilfully blinde that the Apostles Ministers of Christ Jesus ought to be provided for by those to whom they preached as is evident by Christ Jesus his manner of sending