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A75689 A Combate betweene tvvo seconds. One for obeying the present government, the other, the second part of a demurrer, undeservedly called religious. Ascham, Antony, d. 1650. 1649 (1649) Wing A3918C; Thomason E562_16 10,612 20

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another to say perhaps they were valid for one perhaps leaves roome for another Page 5. To the Testimonies of Divines and Casuists And first to that of Azorius He most discretly answers That there was a tacite consent of all And is there not such a one now all men being taken for reasonable creatures For it is supposed every man as a rationall creature should and doth give his consent But it is seene by his reasoning that every man is not de facto a rationall man To the reason of the Second He with a perhaps saith It is a Popish Nicety But this a blunt answer to call all that Popery which he c●n not answer And if acute reasons of Pap●st must be Popish Niceties what will he leave for Protestants but Duncery But in questions that concerne not Popery but Reason and Justice why is the word Popish brought in but to cast a blemish on that truth which he cannot otherwise confute In rationall things and not of Popish concernment it is farre more satisfactory to heare a Papists wise reason then a Protestants folly Besides the terme of Popish indeed doth rather give force to their Reasons then weaken them when a Papist speakes against Popish Interest And so doth this and other Spanish Authors who speake herein against the Spanish and Popish interest in England under Queene Elizabeth and in Holland So he useth the word Popish to his owne disadvantage And now having added two Questions he leaves the Matter in Question under Questions To Paraeus who saith Vsurping Nimrods power was of God and must be obeyed He answers He beleeves Nimrods Vsurpation was over a people not engaged by Oathes and Covenants So here hath hee given up the maine Question it selfe That usurped power may be obeyed if there be no Oathes and Covenants Thus there remaines now no doubt of the maine position But all the doubt is come to Oathes and Covenants so that we have nothing now to doe but to cleare Oathes and Covenants As for Bucers Testimony he fesseth his blindnesse that he sees not how it can be justified Neither doe I thinke he will ever see as long as the webb of prejudice and partiality covers his eyes Yet in this blindnesse he kicks and throwes at Bucer because he hardly toucheth his Gall and yet out of partiall love to Paraeus he grants him the very same for Nimrod which here he denies to Bucer As for his obj●cting Iack ●●de against Bucer why doth he not object also the usurpations of William Rufus Henry the fourth or Hen. the seventh who not having right Titles to the Crown might be encouraged as well as Jack Cade But the name of Iack Cade he thinks may serve for a stumbling block to a blind Reader whereas he that seeth will step over both that and the rest This man no question hath heard that God is the Lord of Heaven and Earth and disposeth all things as he pleaseth And if he please to give a people into the hands and power of such a one as he hath often done will or can this man resist and overcome the highest or will he resolve not to obey them whom God is resolved to set over him If ever he Dan. 8. 18. 25. 35. be restored to his right reason with Nebuchadnezzar he will confesse That the most High doth rule in the Kingdome of men and giveth it to whomsoever he will and sets up over it the basest of men Let him pitty and not damne the once famous and now distressed and oppressed Churches in Greece who lye under the weight of such base and heavy Vsurpations and yet yeild obedience to Vsurpers Besides the ground of obedience being in regard of an authority gotten by a prevaling Page 5. power Is it to be thought that any who have an ambition to usurpe authority and have power to get it will if there were no such Doctrine forbeare usurpation or leave it when they have gotten it and can keepe it by power Againe doth not this objection lye against the Demurrers yeilding his purse to save his life for doth not he here encourage a theefe to goe on in his thefts But if he please he may find an answer to both that these consequences ratioanally come not from the ones giving his purse for his personall safety nor from the others giving obedience for publique peace and quietnesse As for his preferring of Sathan to Magistracy When Paraus speakes so much of an Authority given from God to Sathan in regard of power as he did to Nimrod I will not say this Demurrer p●rhaps will believe the one and obey the other But certainly he doth now in his false accusation without any Paraeus obey him that is the Accuser of the brethren Page 6. He findes himselfe in a straight when either he must obey or else bring confusion to a Common Wealth But not to obey he is resolved and therefore by begging the question or rather granting it to himselfe he breakes through He saith It is a sinne to obey whereas this very argument of confusion is brought to s●ew that it is not sinne but a duty And in Nimrods case and else where with a perhaps he grants it lawfull And for his consequences of not recovering from Bondage let him give me the same leave he takes to say He must not do evill that good may come thereof He must not disobey to avoid these consequences But the grand Case though the little Case will not very fairely acknowledgeth That where lawfull and unlawfull are in question convenience and inconvenience must keepe silence Neither are these consequences so neare and certaine as the confusion by disobeying Besides there have beene often remedies for such consequences for often usurpations having been upon this very Crowne they have often been removed And Ferdinando King of Naples leaving his people upon the very ground and position of the Author opposed by the Demurrer to obey the French who had the present power over them yet the French afterward were expulsed That of the Masters mate he can neither answer nor suffer He saith His Right must not be acknowledged whereas there is no such thing in the question but whether his commands should be obeyed for the safety of the Ship And then according to his use he helps his lame answer over the stile with Oathes and Covenants with are another businesse Yet neither is here a withdrawing from a blessed union but a preservation of the Common-Wealth from destruction which by being destroyed can hardly preserve the blessed union yet here somewhat bountifully He justifies with his usuall perhaps those that are forced to prosecute sutes under the present C●urts Yea He consents to the power that there manageth the lawes with a distinction But doe not all his objections of breaking Oathes allowing usurped power and accessarie post factum come in now against himselfe For if the Judges have no Authority as well as power doth not this submission incourage