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A80511 The Anabaptist washt and washt, and shrunk in the washing: or, A scholasticall discussion of the much-agitated controversie concerning infant-baptism; occasiond by a publike disputation, before a great assembly of ministers, and other persons of worth, in the Church of Newport-Pagnall, betwixt Mr Gibs minister there, and the author, Rich. Carpenter, Independent. Wherin also, the author occasionally, declares his judgement concerning the Papists; and afterwards, concerning Episcopacy. Carpenter, Richard, d. 1670? 1653 (1653) Wing C618; Thomason E1484_1; ESTC R208758 176,188 502

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When there is a personall mutation of Place in the concurring and monstrous troubles of a Nation and Family can we conscientiously mould the Lump into a By-Construction of our own Know we not that the sweet Application of the best and most Charitable Construction in a doubtfull and manifoldly-Circumstanced Case is a faire and separating Mark of a Child of God And would a reasonable Man have sought that abroad which alwaies waited his leasure and pleasure at his own Door When the Papists know that I am peaceably theirs to have and to hold they will have so much Wit as to hold their Peace Now therefore Why doe the Heathen rage and the People imagine a Psal 2. 1. vain Thing or as the Vulgar Quare Edit vulg fremuerunt Gentes Popul● meditati sunt inan●a Why have the Nations made a noise and the People meditated vain Things The Septuagint Sept. led the way 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Why have the Nations noised it like enraged Horses the Word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being thus interpreted by Suid. in voce 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Text. Hebr. Suidas The Originall saith plainly Quare tumultuantur Gentes Why do the Nations or Heathenish People make a confused noise as in a Tumult as if it pointed at the Manners of these few truculent and turbulent People in my Case OBIECT II. SEcondly It is objected That the Difficulty which I clothed in Latine and proposed in my last Book The perfect Law of God is jointly proposed by the Church of Rome I answer I never found or heard it proposed by any Church or person in such a Manner and as making such an Assault And as the Church of Rome hath enforced a like Difficulty so have the greatest and most conspicuous Independents amongst us re-inforced the very same with the same Church Besides I proposed it ex composito ex praeparato I composed it into Latine and prepared the way before it with many an humble and hearty Prayer Acknowledgement and Groan expressed by the weight of my Burden that I might not cast a shadow of the least Offence or Occasion of Errour And if after all the sweet Moanes that humane Providence and Circumspection can preassume One wil fancy to himselfe Unsavory Sents I will not say that such a Man obtusae erassaeque naris est is of a dull and gross Nose or Nostril but I will affirm with Reverence that the Mistake and Evill comes of the corrupt Defluxion per Caput Vermiculans from his Brain into his Nose Had I deliberated and plotted with my selfe to have disordered the Soul-Harmony of weak Persons against which I also protested in my prolocutory and first Addresse I should have proposed the Difficulty according to Serpentine Prudence in the Language only known to such Persons And surely the Examination of the secondary Foundation of the which kinde a Translation is is included primarily when the Apostle exhorts us to try all Things Again The very Names and Memories of Pherecides Diagoras Protagoras Lucian c. are odious to me Credo in Deum Patrem Omnipotentem Creatorem Cali ac Terrae in Jesum Christum Filium ejus Unicum c. I beleve in God the Father Almighty Maker of Heaven and Earth and in Jesus Christ his only Son c. And my Difficulty cannot induce to Atheism because in the dislocation and removall of one Bottom-Stone it actually subministers and infers another as the more firm And therefore a famous Doctor unscrued the Difficulty like a Doctor and like a Divine by answering that the Proposition of the Church is not humāe but divine Only the proportionable squaring of the Result waits the Doctor 's leasure And I pray If the Difficulty induceth to Atheism how doth it pull for the Church of Rome If it puls for the Church of Rome howdoth it induce to Atheism which denies both God and Church What foul and uncouth waies this will-strong Objecter takes to gaine the winde and the ●●gher Ground and that he may be-gual and be-choler me Facessat igitur impexus omnis illotus inquinatusque Sermo I am as free-born as others and may therefore as freely propose and answer especially when I neither challenge first nor give the first Insult And I am secure that in my Proposall of this Difficulty as the Action was good and advanced beyond Indifferency so it was directed to the the Glory of Him that is most good Now that an Act is not referred unto God as unto it's last End I know it may happen first exparte Actûs on the part of the Act and secondly ex parte Agentis on the part of the Agent On the part of the Act when the Act is not Ordinable to a good End in which consideration inordinate Acts or Sins are not referible to the last End For an inordinate Act as being Evill is not a convenient Mean or Middle by the which we may come safe to a good End as a false Proposition is not a Convenient Medium by the which we may safely come to sound and true Knowledge And that the Proposall of this Difficulty is an ordinate Act is without Difficulty and exempted from it by the Premises On the part of the Agent when the minde of the Agent is not directed in Act or Habit to God or a good End ending in God From whence it follows that an End being necessarily required an Act proceeding from such a Minde makes it's direction to some strange and vain Thing as to it 's last End and then the humane Act is Evill Of the V●d●atur Arist in Rani● Felix Plat. Obs●rvat lib. 1. Psal 78 57. Versio Illyrica Vide C●rd●n l. 12. de R●●um Variet cap 56 Claudidianum in Panegyr Theodosii Imp. which there is no Coalition here To this Objecter with his old Friend alwaies in his Mouth and as not unlike him with Aristophanes his Frogs in his Belly it may be rightly and worthily applied they were turned aside like a deceitfull Bowe Where it is turned by the Illyrican Version Converterunt se in Arcum inversum they have turned themselves into an inverted Bowe this Bowe being so turned that it shoots the shooter OBIECT III. THirdly This manifold Objecter objecteth That the said Difficulty according to the present Proposall is not so difficult nor so regularly proposed as is pretended And first That the Syriack is the same Language with the Chaldee I answer Ecquis Mortalium Nepos audebit erectus in Caelum negare Linguam Syriacam ex Hebraica Chaldaica complicatis lenirèr fibris in Captivitate Babylonica paulatim const●tam coaluisse An non omnes Undiqueversùm Scriptorum Calamos vectigales habeam Quin igitur totus ad litem nunc denuò glorio●è dirimendam circumfluat Orbis per Summa Capita signatus contextúsque Secondly That no part of God's Word was primogenially deliver'd in Latine I answer Res agatur apud Authores illos magni profectò