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A47617 An answer to the Bishop of Condom's book entituled, An exposition of the doctrin of the Caholick Church, upon matters of coutroversie [sic]. Written originally in French. La Bastide, Marc-Antoine de, ca. 1624-1704, attributed name. 1676 (1676) Wing L100; ESTC R221701 162,768 460

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and Practices that aggrieve us are at best but private opinions that may be laid aside This is it they ordinarily discourse to us to make us inclinable to themselves and this is in particular the sense and Soul of the Bishop of Condoms Treatise more openly indeed and more expresly in the Manuscript Copy and what hath been cited of the first Edition but yet clearly enough in the second On the other side the profession of Faith declares in so many words that we must believe and receive all the traditions all the institutions all the customs of the Roman Church which doth comprise generally all that is known and that is not known It saith yet more expresly that we ought to pray unto Saints to Worship their relicks have Images of Jesus Christ of the Virgin and of all the Saints and render them the honour and the Worship due unto them admit of Seven true Sacraments and embrace all the Council of Trent hath said and decided touching justification and by consequence the merit of Works satisfactions Purgatory and all the Doctrine of Indulgences believe the conversion of all the substance of the Bread into the body of Jesus Christ and the conversion of all the substance of the Wine into his bloud which is called Transubstantiation and that all Jesus Christ is intirely received and the true Sacrament under the one and the other of the two species Lastly that we are to believe that the Church of Rome is the Mistress of all other Churches to swear intire obedience unto the Pope of Rome and generally to receive all other things whatsoever that are taught by the Councill● and particularly by the Council of Tre●● which doth comprise generally wh●● a man will all that is in dispute T●●● is what is formally required of th●●● that present themselves before the C●rate the Bishop or the great pe●tentiary now let all these Articles 〈◊〉 Faith be compared with the stile 〈◊〉 the Bishop of Condoms Treatise and afterwards Let it be maturely judged if this be one and the same Doctrine For our parts being very far from aggravating the difference there is betwixt the one and the other or from having a mind to make a greater distance betwixt us and the Church of Rome than there is indeed We believe that there is nothing more to be desired for the good of Christian Religion and by little and little to bring mens Spirits mutually nearer that that all those of the Roman Church generally would at least accommodate themselves freely openly unto these sort of sweetnings that the Bishop of Condom doth and that instead of heightning the differences that there may be between his exposition and the Doctrine which they commonly profess they would Write on the contrary in the same sense that he doth and clearer and fuller yet than he hath Written that Lastly they would all say at least as he doth that this is alone the true Doctrine of the Roman Church Religion at least would find it self discharged and freed of a great many Doctrines and practises which do nothing but burthen consciences this would be in sundry points as one of those insensible changes which have come into the Church but a change for the better and an happy beginning of Reformation that might have much more happy consequences The BULL of our mo●… Holy Lord Lord PIU● by Divine Providenc● Pope the IV. of tha● Name Touching th● Form of the Oath 〈◊〉 Profession of Faith Translated out of Latine PIUS Bishop Servant of the Se●vants of God ad perpetuam 〈◊〉 memoriam for a perpetual record THE duty of our Apostoli● Charge which lies upon 〈◊〉 requires that those things which the Lord Almighty for the prudent guidance of his Church has vouchsafed from Heaven to inspire in the Holy Fathers assembled in his Name we make hast to put in execution without delay for his praise and glory Where● therefore according to the Order of the Council of Trent all whom it shall henceforth happen to be set over Cathedral or Superiour Churches or to be provided for by any dignities or Canonries of the same or any other whatsoever Ecclesiastical benefices having cure of Souls are bound to make publick profession of the Orthodox Faith and to engage and swear that they will continue in obedience to the Roman Church We willing also that the same be observed by all whosoever shall be disposed of in Monasteries Convents Religious houses or other places whatsoever of whatsoever Regular Orders even of the Military ones by whatsoever name or Title and to this purpose that what concerns our care may not be the least wanting to any that a profession of one and the same faith may be uniformly exibited by all and that one certain form of it may be known unto all do by power Apostolick strictly injoyn and command by the tenour of these presents that this very form annexed to these presents be published and that it be received and observed all the World over by those by whom according to the decrees of the said Council it does belong and by all other persons aforesaid and that under the penalties by the said Council enacted against offenders in this case the aforesaid Profession be Solemnly made according to this and no other form in this tenor IN. Do with firm Faith believe and profess all and every things and thing which are contained in the Symbol of Faith which the Holy Roman Church useth viz. Articles of Faith taken out of the Symbols of Nice and Con stantinople I believe in one God the Father Almighty maker of Heaven and Earth and of all things visible and invisible and in one Lord Jesus Christ the onely begotten Son of God and brought forth of his Father before all Ages God of God Light of Light very God of very God begotten not made of the same substance with the Father by whom all things were made who for us men and our Salvation came down from Heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary and made man was also crucified for us under Pontius Pilat suffered and was buried and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures and ascended into Heaven sitteth at the right hand of the Father and shall come again with Glory to judge both the quick and the dead of whose Kingdom there shall be no end And in the Holy Ghost the Lord and giver of Life who proceedeth from the Father and the Son who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified who spake by the Prophets And one Holy Catholick and Apostolick Church I confess one Baptism for the remission of sins and I look for the Resurrection of the dead and the Life of the World to come Amen The Apostolical and Ecclesiastical Traditions and the other observations Articles of Faith touching the matters in Cotroversie which the Romish Church hath added to the Antient and constitutions of the same
Holy Ghost which is the first and most fundamental Article of the Christian Religion but at the very same instant She doth teach another Article which is quite contrary according to us when She saith that we ought to Worship and when she doth indeed Worship that which according to us is not God The Church of Rome receives as we do the first Commandment of the Law which forbids having any other God than the Mighty and Jealous God Yet at the same time She calleth upon the Saints which is a Religious worship by their own Confession and according to us it is a kind or part of that worship which we ought not to give but to God onely not to speak here of the excess which is seen in that worship The Church of Rome receives the second Commandment which doth particularly forbid the making Images of any thing that is in Heaven or in the Earth to worship them but at the same time She doth make Images of the very persons of the Trinity and of all the Saints Shee kneels down before them and doth serve them Religiously against the express terms of the Commandment and it is also well known to what excess She hath advanced this worship in the practice The Church of Rome receives as we do the Apostles Creed which is ●n Abridgment of the fundamental Doctrine of the Gospel for those who are well instructed in it and that do understand it in the full force of its expressions But therein it self we do agree no wise touching that which the Bishop of Condom doth suppose that the Church of Rome hath the pure and true understanding of the Creed We pretend that to believe in God the Creator and in Jesus Christ doth mean so to believe in God as to matter of Religion as not to have the Least confidence in any thing else and we believe that the Worshipping of Saints of Relicks of the Cross and of Images especially in the excess and inevitable abuse which follows however the matter is sweetned in disputation is a degree of a Religious confidence in the creature which thereby doth become sharer in what we owe only unto the Creator The Church of Rome with us believes that Jesus Christ is ascended into Heaven that he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father and that it is he who shall come from thence to judge both the quick and the dead but she believes at the same time that our Lord Jesus Christ is also every day corporally upon earth though in an invisible State and different from that estate he is in in Heaven Here it might be proved that in effect all these Doctrines of the Roman Church and several others are directly contrary to the fundamental Doctrine of the Gospel but that would be useless in this part of the question where it sufficeth to intimate that we do so believe what follows will shew the reasons which we have to believe so p. 9 a. 1 The Bishop of Condom doth here make the objection against us which is usually made against us touching the Lutherans that the consequences which we draw from their Doctrine do not hinder but that we admit them into our Communion although these consequences do seem to destroy the foundation But there is a great deal of difference betwixt the Lutherans and the Roman-Catholicks in reference unto us in effect we agree that always heed is not to be taken of the consequences which may be drawn from a Doctrin Doubtless we ought to distinguish the consequences contested by him that doth teach the Doctrine and which do not produce any effect in the intention nor Worship from those which are granted by the very persons which teach the Doctrin and which are followed by a sort of Worship which is thought to be evil It is true that Mr. Daille saith of the Lutherans as the Bishop of Condom doth instance that they have an opinion which according unto us doth infer as well as that of the Roman Church the destruction of the humanity of our Lord Jesus Christ but it is also very certain that this consequence as Mr. Daille doth add cannot be without great injustice imputed unto them because they do formally deny it and that besides they have nothing in their Worship which doth establish or suppose this consequence This is the reason of this expression of Monsieur Dailles which hath been so urged of late times and which the Bishop of Condom doth here again urge that the opinion of the Lutherans has no venim in it which is notwithstanding a natural expressi●n and proper to the Subject for it imports nothing else but what is said b●fore that the Lutherans denying the consequences of their Doctrin and believing the humanity of Jesus Christ as it is certain they do their errour touching the Eucharist although it may be gross according unto us may nevertheless be charitably born with for the advantage of Peace and Union But as to the Church of Rome it is not onely by consequences but by a positive Doctrin and by a constant practice as we pretend whatsoever she saith that she doth not sufficiently acknowledge the Soveraignty which is due unto God nor the quality of Saviour and Mediator in our Lord Jesus Christ nor the superabundant fulness of his merits because it appears plainly unto us that she gives unto the creature the Worship which is onely due unto the Creator and that she doth make to concur the satisfactions and merits of men with the satisfaction and merit of Jesus Christ It cannot with justice be said that the Lutherans do not believe the humanity of Jesus Christ but it is no calumny to say that the Church of Rome doth Worship the host and that she doth give a Religious Worship to Saints to their relicks to Images and unto the Cross c. these are not consequences contested but positive Doctrin confirmed by practice The Bishop of Condom having a mind to cover the contrariety we conceive between the fundamental Articles which the Church of Rome holds and those other Worships that we reject passeth over here in silence what should have been spoken touching the adoration of the Host which point alone most openly shews this contrariety He thinks to reconcile all by his Second proposition III. Second pro●●ion general of the Bishop of Condom This the Catho Church doth teach that the Religious worshipping of Saints and Images c. terminates it self in God only Mat. 4.10 that the Church of Rome doth teach that all Religions worship ought to terminate it self on God We say more simply and more naturally that all Religious Worship ought to addresse it self unto God because indeed Religion should regard nothing but God and should have only him for its object All Religious Worship should begin with him continue in him and end on him This is it to which only all the Doctrin of the Old and New Testaments doth tend there cannot be shewed in
pretends that these expressions do suppose the real presence and that they cannot concord but by admitting the Doctrine of the real presence which comes all to one thing and that it is by these expressions that our Reformers themselves approached unto the Church of Rome It is in this part of his Treatise that he hath laboured most and conceived with greatest care as being the place where there seemed to be most advantage but which at the bottom is nothing else but an heap of plausible pretexts and unjust consequences and almost throughout playing upon words The first of his Objections is upon this expression of our Catechism where we say that we do make no doubt ●t that Jesus Christ makes us parta●s of his proper substance by uniting us 〈◊〉 himself in the same life and upon this other passage of our Confession of Faith where it is said to the same effect that Jesus Christ doth nourish and ●ivifie us with the proper substance of his body and of his bloud It is a certain truth that the Scripture never makes use of this term of Substance upon the subject of the Eucharist The first Fathers of the Church did not use it neither There are onely some ancient Doctours which have used it in divers senses sometimes to express the matter or the essence it self of the things and oftentimes also to signifie the virtue Sunday 50. and in the form of administring of Baptism Our Catechism it self speaking of the Sacrament of Baptism saith indifferently in two places the substance and the virtue of Baptism to signifie the efficacy of it Not any of the first Ages have said that Jesus Christ did give us the substance of his body and bloud but some less ancient have said that he nourished and vivified us by his substance or that he gave us a living substance meaning a quickning virtue alluding unto that mystical expression I am the living bread Joh. 6. this bread is my flesh which I will give for the life of the World When the Authours of our Confession of Faith and of our Catechism used these sorts of expressions amongst many others it plainly appears that they were not constrained so to do to conform themselves unto the Scripture nor to the ancient Fathers of the Church who used them not at all but they did it doubtless to accommodate themselves therein to the use which the latter times had brought in and to shew in different terms the truth of this spiritual Communion which we believe we have with Jesus Christ so as they explain it in the same place And we will make no scruple here to add that it is not simply the words of institution of the Lords Supper which oblige us to speak in such effectual terms because it is evident that the first aim of the words of institution is to recommend the commemoration of the death of Jesus Christ And it is also on one hand the Tenour of the Gospel in general which doth throughout inculcate a most intimate communion of the faithful with Jesus Christ saying that we are flesh of his flesh Eph● and bone of his bone and on the other hand it is the nature of this Sacrament which joyned to this divine Word not onely sets forth this union in a most express manner but also gives us a lively feeling of it strengthens and confirms it by the grace with which God is pleased to accompany an action so holy But that which is communicated according to its proper substance saith the Bishop of Condom Pa. 104. ought to be really present and it is not possible to make understood that a body which is onely spiritually communicated unto us and by Faith can be really communicated unto us and in its proper substance But the reason why we cannot make you understand it is the prejudice which you will not lay aside upon this subject of the Eucharist to wit that there is no real union nor participation if it be not Physical that is to say if two bodies or two substances be not joyned or be not both together in one place which yet is a manifest errour As if for example when we acquire an inheritance though we are distant from it it might not be said that not onely the fruits and the Revenue belong unto us but that the propriety the body the substance of the Land in fine all that belongs to it is ours Besides our Catechism had already answered unto the Bishop of Condom's Objection in the Article which immediately follows that which he objects to us The Minister demands Sunday 53. How can it he that Jesus Christ makes us partakers of his proper substance to unite us unto himself seeing his body is in Heaven and we upon Earth It is saith the Child by the incomprehensible power of the Holy Ghost which joyneth things that are asunder by the distance of place And * Art 36. our Confession of Faith saith the same thing and in the same terms Would the Bishop of Condom dispute that the Holy Ghost cannot effect a real and true union of us with Jesus Christ when we partake of the Lords Supper notwithstanding the distance that there is betwixt him and us And who saith a true and real union with Jesus Christ saith he any thing less than to be made partaker of or to be nourished and vivified with his substance Doth either the Bishop of Condom himself better understand or is it possible that he should make better understood the manner wherein he doth believe that the bread and the wine are transubstantiated into the body and bloud of Jesus Christ by the operation of the same spirit of God insomuch that the bread doth cease to be bread and that the body of our Divine Saviour his proper body which is sitting in Heaven at the right hand of the Father is nevertheless upon Earth in a thousand places at once after the manner of a spirit in less room than a point doth take up In fine is it possible to make better understood this other manner which he believes that this holy body which onely passeth through his stomach doth unite or rather is not united with his proper body and soul The second Objection which the Bishop of Condom here makes against us is upon another expression of our Catechism Sunday 52. where it is said that though Jesus Christ be truly communicated unto us by Baptism and by the Gospel it is onely in part and not fully whence the Bishop of Condom infers that Jesus Christ is fully given unto us in the Lords Supper and that there is an exceeding difference betwixt receiving in part and receiving fully Granting this see whereunto his Argumentation amounts If in the Lords Supper Pa. 106. Jesus Christ is fully received and in Baptism and in the Gospel but in part then the manner in which he is received in the Lords Supper is different from that in which he is