and i. Cor. i. Ephe. ii Gala. ii The rote of â—â— good workes Iohn v. Rom. xi maketh vs partakers of hys obeydience and ryghtuousnes so that it serueth nother more nor lesse then if it were oure owne propre Inasmuche then as Iesus Christe is in vs and we in hym that hys rightuousnes is ours and liueth in vs and dwelleth in oure hertes by fayeth and by hys holye spirite it is very certayne that that fayth can not be idle without bryngynge forthe good fruite seyng theÌ„ that he is the true vyne and good olyue tree vpon the whyche we be planted and graffed it is impossible but the fruite which we beare or bryng forth and the worke whyche we do shoulde not be to hym acceptable because of the good rote out of the whyche they spryng and bicause the celestiall father reknowledgeth the worke of hys sonne in vs for whose loue he doeth beare the imperfection whyche abydeth al wayes in oure fleshe durynge thys mortal life but it is cleane coÌ„trarie of the Infidels and reproued whyche can not be acceptable vnto God nor no workes that they can do bycause they be wythout Iesus Christe without whoÌ„ non caÌ„ be beloued of the father Nathana I do vnderstande nowe the cause whye the holye scripture doeth attribute the Iustification of man vnto fayeth and giue it so great prayses and who so euer vnderstode thys poynte as thou haste declared it should haue no occasion to be so much offended with thys doctrine as some be for they saye when the Iustification of fayeth is preached wythout Sclaunder oâ— Iustification by fayth the workes of the lawe that they wyll abolish and put awaye good workes Phylype They vnderstande verye euyl but that sclaunder doeth come of the doctryne of the Sophysters and hypocrites whyche hath learned menne to put the wayne before the oxeÌ„ as the prouerbe goeth to builde without fundation wherefore when they shoulde be reformed and otherwyse taught they do find it a newe and strange doctrine bycause they haue bene norished in suche a contrarye way Natha Tell me thys some thyng more clearlye The tre can not beare good fruite except Math. xii it be fyrste a good tre And therfore the good fruite doeth not make the tre good but the good tree makethe the fruite good but they wyll haue the fruite before the tre and wyll make the tre good by the fruite which is impossible Natha Thou speakest yet somthyng darkely Phy. Thou shalt haue it more clearlye They wyll haue rightuousnes in a man before it be in hym and wyll that he doeth workes of Iustice and ryghtuousnes and by the same to be Iustified But howe shal he do the workes of Iustice excepte he hym selfe be fyrste iuste and that can he not be but by the Iustice and ryghtuousnes of Iesus Christe and that can not he obteine but by fayth wherfore wyth good ryght is the honour of Iustification gyuen vnto fayth seynge that she is the rote and fundation of the same and of all good workes the whiche proceadeth of the same rote Nata I vnderstaÌ„d this now welynoughe but in as muche as fayeth hath such vertue declare vnto me what fayeth is Phy. Fayeth is a certayne and assured knowledge and a fyrme perswation and truste of the loue and mercy of God towardes vs for the loue of Iesus Christe hys sonne Natha A manne whych wyll haue thys faieth whole and perfitte what is he bounde to beleue Phylip. Al that is conteyned in the holye scriptures but The summe of fayth because that thys doctrine of fayeth is ample and large it is drawen into a briefe and shorte summe for the healpe sucoure of the weakenes and infirmitie of the humaine vnderstandynge and the memorie of the pore and simple people Natha What vnderstandest thou by that shorte summe is it the crede of the Apostles Phy. It is the verye same Nathana Wherfore is it called the Crede of the Apostles Phy. Bycause it is a short summe of the doctrine Apostolyke and a whole some conteynynge in fewe wordes the principal poyntes and articles of the fayth and christian religion Natha I desyre muche that thou woldest declare it vnto me poynte by poynte for it doeth not suffice to can saye it by herte and confesse it wyth the mouthe speakynge as the pies wyth out vnderstandynge what we do saye Phy. It is verye certayne that the confessioÌ„ of the mouth profiteth litle except it procede of faith froÌ„ the herte Nata That vnderstand I well and therfore do I desyre to haue a more playne vnderstandynge for howe can I perfectly beleue that which is coÌ„teined therin without the vnderstaÌ„ding of it for it is not possible that in those fewe wordes shoulde be comprehended al the apostolyke doctrine but it conteyneth greate matters and many goodly poyntes worthy to be well expounded and opened Phylype Thou takeste it not a misse and seynge the good desyre that thou haste I am verye well contente to satisfie the same but nowe I haue no conueniente leysure for it caÌ„ not be so shortely done wherefore thou shalte haue a litle patience vnto anone when I shall haue a more conueniente leysure the better to satisfie thy desyre Nata That is very resonable reasoÌ„ doeth require that I which would be taughte take the tyme whyche seameth to the moste mete but if thou â—arye longe I will come put the in remembraunce Phy. Thou shalt do well and fare thou wel to oure nexte meatynge God conducte and brynge the agayne shortlye ⧠In thys seconde dialoge is declared the fyrste parte of the Crede of the Apostles in the whyche is spoken of the trinitie and vnitie of God and pryncipallye of the father and of the proprietie vnto hym distributed and of the creation of all thynges and what fruite we oughte to beare NAthanaell I trust thou hast not forgotten the promise thou made vnto me therfore I am come to put the in remembraunce Phy. If thou haddeste not come I determined to haue come to the but thou hast preuented me Natha The greate desire that I haue to here vnderstaÌ„de the thinges that we haue communed of togither hath enflamed and steared me forward Phy. If thou haue a greate desire to heare I haue no lesse to expounde and confarre wyth the for what communication maye we deuise more honest and profitable or for better recreation then to common of oure fayth religioÌ„ and of the goodnes mercie of God toward vs. Natha There is no doubte and therfore I praye the begyn to enter into the matter Phy. The better to reduce al thinge by ordre recite firste the Crede to the ende that wyth freshe memorye we maye well considre that whyche it doeth conteyne in generall and after we shal expound it by particulers Nathanaell I beleue in God the father almyghtye maker of heauen and earth And in Iesu Christ hys onely sonne our Lord
coulde not be but in hym that was fullye endued wyth the gooddes of fortune of the bodye and of the soule whyche to fynde in anye one man it were verye harde And by thys doctrine the prophettes Thre kyndes of godnesse Apostles and true childreÌ„ of God should not be verye happye and blessed and the doctrine of Iesu Christ should not be true which doth pronounce happy and blessed the poore in spirite the aflicted and persecuted for ryghtuousnes sake and they whyche haue honger thriste and whych wepe and morne Na. Therefore there be other that haue put Math. v. Luke vi the souerayne goodnes of man in vertu Phy. Those haue well perceyued and felte the inconueniences whych I haue before touched but for all that they coulde not hytt the whytte for they dyd neuer well vnderstand what was the true vertu that might leade vnto that soueraigne goodnesse and wyth great paine did they onely atteine vnto the shadow and coulde not fynde the verye ryghte waye The soueraine goodnesse of men to leade them for they dyd alwaye leaue a maÌ„ vnto hym selfe the whyche can in no wyse fynde that same soueraygne goodnes except he go out of hym selfe Natha where wylte thou then that he shall seke it Phylippe Out of hym selfe and of al creatures Nata Thou wilt theÌ„ that he go seke it in God Phyly In whom shoulde he fynde it but in him in whoÌ„ not only it is but is him selfe that same soueraygne goodnes for thou doest knowe well that man is infasiable and that he can neuer be contente and satisfied excepte he haue all And thoughe he had the heauen and the earth the sea and all that is conteyned in them yet shoulde he not be satisfied and fylled For he should not therby haue al for he can not haue al except he haue God to whoÌ„ al thinges perteyne and be hys owne in the whyche onely he may be satisfied and perfecte accordynge to the testimonie of the prophete saying then Psal xvi shal I be filled wheÌ„ thy glorye appeareth for without hym what maye we fynde but vnhappines synne Death malediction daÌ„nation hell Nata I beleue that nowe thou hast hyt the whyte but the hardeste is yet to do for it doth not suffice to know vnto what plac ende we ought to go nor yet in what hauen or port we desire to arriue excepte we knowe the meane waie to come vnto it wherefore I desire muche that if thou knowe it that thou wilt teache it me Phy. It is necessarie that he knowe it that should teach it vnto other and there is none that can knowe it but he that hath bene there and gone the Iorney Natha There is theÌ„ no liuynge man that can know it Phy. And therfore muste we haue recourse The waye to come to soueraynge goodnes vnto God whyche wyll gyue vs a guide to leade vs and hathe all readye gyuen vs one whyche can neuer go out of the waye that is Iesus Christe hys sunne oure Soueraygne maister whyche is come downe from heauen for to learne vs the waye and brynge vs thither Mat. xxiii xi for as he hym selfe wytnesseth that none can ascend vp into heauen but he that is come Iohn iii. Iohn ix Iohn i. The lader of Iacob Gene. xxviii down from heauen namely the sonne of maÌ„ that is in heauen none can come vnto my father but bâ—me I am the gate the dore the wai the trueth and the lyte he is the true ladder that Iacob sawe standynge vpon the earth reached vp to heauen The angelles of God goinge vp downe vpoÌ„ it and the Lord god leaninge vpon it but for to make vs the waie shorter playner more esie he hath brought Deut. iii. Rom. i. vs the heauens with hym selfe and that same soueraygne goodnes in suche sorte that we nede not to pas the seas nor the mountaines nor to go any longe waye or Iorney to come vnto it neade not to go out of oure selues Ephe. iiii Colo. iii. Math. iii. Luke xvii but of oure olde adam for the kyngdome of heaueÌ„ is at hande and the kingdome of God is within vs we haue the worde neare vs in our mouthes if we can know it Na. How â—heÌ„ Phy. The maister whyche is descended from heauen and that souerayne doctor whych the celestiall father hath sente vnto vs doth teach vs thys scieÌ„ce in two wordes sayinge Thys is the lyfe euerlastynge That they do knowledge the one onely true God and hym whoÌ„e he hath sente Iesus Christe Na. Then wylte â—noledge of God then by that conclud that the souerayne goodnes of manne and his true felicitie and beatitude and the meane to vnite and knyte all meÌ„ in one selfe herte and one verye wyll is to knowe God by Iesus Christe hys sonne Phy. Thou concludest verye well Nata If there neede none other thynge at the leste all the christians should be verye happie for they do all knowe God and Iesus Christe theyr Sauiour but it is neuertheles maruayle that there is so lyttle vnitie amonge them seynge they haue all that knoweledge Phy. If they had that knoweledge wythout doubt thei should be al of one accord should be verye happye and blessed but there be very fewe that hath that knowledge as it shuld be had Nata Is there theÌ„ ii sortes to know God Phy. Euen as there is two sortes to beleue Two sortes to knowe and beleue God For to beleue in God and knowe God cometh all to one Saynte Iames doeth saye that the Deuyles beleue and tremble before the maiestie of God But they beleue not in â—mes ii suche sorte as the faythfull children of God do They beleue there is a God and do feare hym but not as the good chylde feareth hys father but as an euyl doer 〈…〉 Iudge Notwithstandynge also they do beleue ther is one God yet beleue they not God is their God that is to saye that he is theyr Sauioure and father readye benigne fauorable and mercifull and that he wyll shewe vnto them hys grace and mercy thorow his sonne Iesus Christe for so is the nature of God hys propre office And he that knoweth hym not so knoweth hym not to be hys God but doeth hold him as a cruel tyraunte the which he doeth more feare then loue for we can not knowe him to be other without Iesu Christ because that the euil coÌ„scieÌ„ce which doth fele it selfe culpable of hys Iudgmâ—t causeth him so to repute hym wherefore it is impossible that any shoulde haue the true knowledge of God suche as is required to come vnto thys soueraygne goodnes but he that hathe hym in coÌ„templation not in hym selfe nor in him The true knowledg of God to be coÌ„sidered barely in his maiestie nor in anye other habite then in this humaine fleshe whyche he hath put on by hys soone Iesus Christe in the whyche he hathe declared
which was coÌ„ceiued by the holie goste borne of the virgin marie suffred vnder ponce pilate was crucâ—fied dead buried desceÌ„ded into hel the thyrd day he rose againe froÌ„ death he asceÌ„ded into heaueÌ„ sitteth on the right haÌ„d of God the father almighty from thense he shal come to Iudge the quycke and the deade I beleue in the holye Gost the holy Catholike church the communion of sayntes the forgyuenes of synnes The resurrection of the bodye and the lyfe euerlastynge AmeÌ„ Phy. The better to deuide these matters for the healpe of the memory we wil deuide the crede al generally in foure principal partes thei of the .iiii. partes that shal be most tedious loÌ„ge we mai deuide wher it shal seme vnto vs most mete for the playner vnderstandyng and the better to kepe all thynges in memorie And in the first shal be spoken of God in generall of the person of the father of the creation of all thynges In the seconde of Iesus Christ our Lord and of oure redemption In the thyrde of the holye Goste In the fourthe of the churche of the thynges vnto hyr apperteyning Nata Thys ordre shal be very good let vs therfore come vnto the fyrste parte what vnderstandest thou wheÌ„ thou saiest I beleue Phy. That I do put my whole confidence truste hope What it is to bâ—â—â—ue to hym in whom I beleue trustynge in hym wyth all my herte abydynge and lokinge to receyue of hym onely ayde succour saluatioÌ„ lyfe and al good thynges Natha Thou doeste Psal xiiii then confesse that thou trusteste al whollâ— in hym and in none other Phy. It is so for it is tru that who so euer trusteth in him shal not be deceuyed nor confounded and I say I beleue because that none other can beleue for me Natha It semeth bi thy words that thou wylt affyrme that faith doth not serue but to him that hath it that it profiteth not to another but vnto hym whose it is Phy. I denye In what the fayth of other may profitte not but the fayth of other may serue for prayer vnto God for me for my conuercion and my sinnes and for to presente me vnto hym aske of hym my saluation as we haue example in the sicke of the palseye but if I haue not fayth also in my selfe I can not receyue it Natha What sayest thou then of theÌ„ whiche forseth not to vnderstand and knowe the doctrine of fayth but doeth suffice them to saye I beleue in the holye mother church I beleue that whych the holye churche beleueth albeit they knowe not what she beleueth and doth truste more in the fayth of other then in theyr owne Phy. The prophet hath learned me to speake and fele otherwise when he hath sayd the Iuste shall lyue by hys fayeth wherefore I do conclude that euen as I can not lyue by the soule and life an other but of mine owne that also my soule can not lyue by the fayeth of other but by hys own faith whych giueth hym lyfe as the soule to the bodye Natha Seynge then that the faith doth vinifie man it muste then be lyuelye and that the fayeth whyche is deade is no fayeth Phy. Yes it is fayth as a deade man is a man wythout hauynge lyfe mouynge nor felynge wythout whych thynges man can not be man but a deade carion or els it is fayeth as a paynted fyre is a fyre wythout heate clearnes or light whyche be thynges impossible and contrary to theyr nature Natha They their whyche doeth saye they beleue wythout knoweynge what they do beleue and seâ—tel them selues at all aueÌ„ture vpon the fayth of other haue not the ryght fayeth Phy. What fayth may that be whyche hath no fundation nor ground vpon The fundation of fayeth the promises of God beynge ignoraunt of theÌ„ for the tru faieth hath for his ground fundation the promise of God and his word wythout the whiche it can not be fayth Natha What is it then Phy. If thou wylte call it fayth and abuse the worde we may cal it fayned paynted historicall or deade faieth For faith can we not rightlye call it in suche sorte as the holye scripture doeth take and vnderstand the worde fayeth wherefore if thou wilt cal it by more propre names thou maiste call it fantasie or foleish opinion or els temerite and presumption Natha I am inoughe satisfied in thys poynte tell me then nowe what is that God in whoÌ„e thou beleuest for I haue determined thus to examine the point by poynte not as an inquirar of thy fayeth to examine thy fayth and thy conscience but for to learne and to be taught of the. Phy. Thou demaundeste of me a thynge the whyche no vnderstanding can comprehend nor any tong open accordynge to hys dignitie Nathanaell Wherefore theÌ„ callest thou hym God if ther be no tongue that can setforth his name Phy The name of God It is very certaine that mani names be attributed vnto him of al people tonges natioÌ„s but there is none that maye perfectlye diffine and declare hys hature hys essence hys dignitie vertue and maiestie Natha To what purpose serueth then those names Phy. For to healpe and succoure the humayne infirmitie vnto the whyche muste be set forth and described suche thynges as it may comprehend and knowe for hys saluation Natha Seyng ther is no name in heaueÌ„ nor in the earth worthy nor sufficient vnto hys maiestie at the lest declare vnto me what thou vnderstandest by the name whyche thou gyuest vnto hym and other lyke Phylype I vnderstande not a creature mortall visible and corruptible but a spirite whyche is not created but eternall wythout What god is Iohn iiii Esaie â—l xx Psal xv ende or beginnynge a maiestie essence diuinite power wisdoÌ„ goodnes mirable infinit a soueraine goodnes hauing all in him selfe hauynge no neade of anye maner of thynge beynge sufficiente vnto hym selfe and to all creatures of the whyche he is onelye the author creatour gouernour coÌ„seruator Natha Wherefore doest that call hym likewyse father almyghtye Phy The better to declare and open that whyche I haue sayed Nata The name of father howe is it semiâ—g or appropried vnto God Phy. It is semynge vnto hym for dyuers causes and reasons the firste for asmuche as Wherfore god is called father Ephe. i. he is father of oure Lorde Iesus Christe And after bycause that he is author of all thynges and of the whyche deffendeth all fatherheade as well in heauen as in earth and singularlye bycause that he is of a moste fatherly affectioÌ„ toward hys elected vnto whoÌ„ he doeth shewe hym selfe as a moste louynge father toward hys chyldren and doeth holde and take them for hys for the loue he beareth vnto Iesus Christe hys natural sonne Natha Expounde me al these poyntes by perticulers and tell me fyrste howe he is father of oure Lorde Iesus Christe and howe Iesus Christe is the
he is also the holye Goste whiche is hys vertue and power and is after suche sorte extended ouer all the worlde and shede forthe vpon all thynges that yet he doth not leaue nor is seperated but doeth abyde alwayes in hym selfe which doth fulfil the heauen and in the earth Natha Euen so do I vnderstande but let vs come vnto the other reason wherfor thou callest How God is father of all creatures him father Phy. Because that as the sonne doth take his being his begining his life his norishment and all that he hath of his father beinge also afterwarde brought vp gouerned of hym euen so al creatures take their beinge and conseruation of God whyche by his prouidence and fatherly goodnes doeth conducte and gouerne nourishe vpholde all the creatures whiche by his inestimable power he hath created and speciallye Man for whom he hath created al thynges and whom he hath adopted and chosen for his chyldren and heires by Iesus Christe oure Lorde Na. Doth it not suffice to call hym creatour of al thynges Phy. The name of the father doeth beare and conteyne muche more For al be it that God is creatour of al thynges yet doth he not cal hym selfe father of al creatures but of mā And not of al men generally as of his chosen and elected For he doeth not call hym selfe properly father of al men Of the which he is creatoure but of them onely whyche he hath elected loued boughte and saued in his sonne Iesus Christ whyche he doth holde for his chyldren and gyueth vnto thē his immortal inheritance As the father maketh his sōne his heyre whyche he doth not vnto the reproued and euyll Yet neuerthelesse he doth nourishe keepe and defende them as he doeth the beastes and other creatures And that principally for two reasons The fyrste is the better to declar hys inestimable goodnes which is so greate that there is no creature what soeuer it be howe vyle abiecte and lytle so euer it can be vnto the whyche he woulde not the same hys goodnes should extende and shuld feele of it Yea euen hys enemies whyche do blaspheme hym of the whyche neuerthelesse taketh he yet the care and charges pursuyng and folowynge them wyth hys fauourable goodnesse for to ouercome the malice of their hertes The other reason is because of hys elected vnto the whyche he maketh all thynges to serue And for the whyche he doeth vpholde all other creatures and doeth spare euen the euyl to the ende his chyldren shoulde haue no hurte nor perishe wyth them But he hath an other maner of care of hys elected and chosen and hath called them vnto a more greater blessynge and benediction then vnto that whyche is commune vnto vs wyth the brute beastes And therefore wyll he not onelie be called and holden of vs as oure creatoure but also for father to the ende that we maye be assured that not onelie we holde Math. v. i. Timo. iiii oure lyfe and byrth of hym but also that he hath a singuler loue towardes vs and more then a fatherlie affection whyche neuer doth forgette forsake refuse nor reiecte hys chyldren but hathe a perpetnall care for to keepe and saue for to healpe and succoure them in all theyr necessities and in all daungers and peryles Natha Accordynge to thyne exposition the name of father attributed vnto God doeth not onelye comprehende the creation but also The prouidence of God hys prouidence and the infinite goodnes whyche is in hym of the which doeth folowe that they whyche denye the prouidence of God makynge hym careles takynge frome hym the thought care and charg of hys creatures beleueth hym not to be a father Phy. They beleue not God to be God but do make hym more in humayne cruell then the pore queane that came to Solomōs iudgmente yea then the Dogges wolues Lions and all other wylde beastes Natha Howe so Phi. The pore queane hath care for hyr childe beyng moued of pity and cōpassiō towarde it the wylde beastes norishe and defende theyr litle yonge on s take such care and thought for thē that many times ther suffere them selues to be slayne to saue them and shall God then forget the worke of hys owne makynge and not care for hys owne propre chyldrene which he doth more loue thē euer any mother loued hirs wher should be thē that soueraign goodnes what God or father shoulde he be if he shoulde forsake hys chyldren after they were borne and suffre thē to perish the true christians knoweth no suche God but doeth leaue hym to the Epicures Natha Certaynely we be maruelously blynded if we can not cōsidre that but wherefore puttest thou to it almyghtye Phy. For to Esaie xl xlix shew that he differeth far from our carnal fathers which cā do nothing of them selues but he may do al that he wil both in heauē and in earth Natha And to what purpose doeth it serue vs to knowe that he is almightye Phy. That knowledge doeth beare bringe a greate assuraunce into oure consciences for beyng assured that he is oure father that hath adopted and chosen vs by hys sonne Iesus Christ we nede not doubt of hys good wyll and fatherlye affection towarde vs seynge then that we be assured of hys good wyll we neade not feare but that he wyll put it in execution seynge he is almyghtye and hathe the power Natha It is very hard and difficile for a mā to do anye thynge excepte he haue these two thynges togyther that is to saye the wil and the power for the wyll wythout the power what can it profitte and to what purpose shal the power be enployed if the wyl be not ther. Phylype And therfore when we call hym father we cōfes alredi the assurāce that we haue of hys wyll towarde vs and to the ende we shoulde abyde and knowe that hys wyll is not vayne wythout puttynge anye thyng in affecte we attribute vnto hym almyghtye the whych thynges do teach vs that he is not as a mortal man whyche often woulde and can not Or like vnto a tyraunt or some rych man of power whych might do much if he would but his wyll not answerynge or agreing vnto his power Nathanaell It foloweth then of that whych thou sayst that God doth not keepe hys power in hym selfe as the couetous man or vsurar doeth his ryches in hys treasurie or coffers wythout distributinge any to any man But doth continually exersice hys power and goodnes amonge hys creatures Phi. So would I haue sayed that al creatures be vnto hym subiectes at his disposition And doeth cōducte gouerne them as it pleaseth hym And none cā hinder hym Nathanaell Seinge it is so thou mayest well Psal viii Ephe. i. Hebre. ii Psal Cxiii saye that that knowledge doth brynge great reste vnto our consciences For if we could so sirmelie beleue thys wyth oure hertes as we do easelie confesse it wyth oure mouthes
we shoulde neuer be in feare of any thynge for in asmuch as we be assured that God hath al in hys hande and that he is alwayes so doing that nothyng can be done neither in heauen nor in earth wythout hys councel ordinaunce and that there is no creature that can do any thing not so much as to make tof al a leafe from a tre or to make an hed hear whyt or black without his wil. And hauyng leaue Math. x Math. v of him beyng suer of the other part that nether he wylleth or doth any thynge but it is good and ther is nothynge good but he willeth it what ought we then to feare Is ther any creature that may noy vs Phi. In that it Genes i doeth appeare that we be al hypocrites and that we do not beleue God to be the father almyghtie Seing we be so fearfull Nathanaell When I do consyder well these thynges it doeth seeme vnto me that they whiche do praye vnto the angelles or holy sayntes Inuocation of sayntes or put their truste in any creature whatsoeuer it be hath not truly that fayeth whyche thou confessist Philip. They be as farre of as from the heaueÌ„ vnto the earth For if they dyd beleue that God were their father as they do confesse hym wyth their mouthe thei shoulde rather haue their recourse hope and refuge in hym then in any other Nathanaell But they saye they haue their recourse vnto hym and put in hym their truste But they do it the better to obteyne hys fauoure fearynge leste because of their synnes he wyll not heare them Wherefore thei do truste that when thei do ioyne the saintes wyth hym that they shall be soner succoured And that they shall be soner exalted or lyfte vp by their intercession Philip. What other thynge is thys then to denie that he is God nor oure father Nathanaell Wherefore Phi. If he be God father almightie we muste not doubte but he maye do all what he wyll as wel in heaueÌ„ as in earth for he hath the power and if we doubt not in his power no more oughte we not to mistruste in hys wyll hys wisdome and goodnes If then we beleue that he is oure God father not carnal mortal and weake lacking power but almighty eternal in whoÌ„ may or do we trust that maye better or soner healpe vs then he whyche is allmyghtye who shall haue more affection to do it then he that is oure father who can do it better or in time for vs most requisite then he whyche is the fountayne and sprynge of all power wysdome and goodnes Natha Thy reasons be so open and manifeste that none can say agayuste them by the whiche I do clarly knowe that al they which haue recourse and confidence and do make prayer or inuocation vnto anye other but to God be hypocrites lyers when they wyth mouthe do saye the prayer of oure Lorde Iesus Christe thys crede callynge God their father whyche they do not beleue seyng they denye hym by theyr workes the whyche do opeÌ„ and beare witnes what is in theyr hertes Phy. They be suche as the prophet speaketh of they drawe nere vnto God wyth theyr lyppes honour hym wyth theyr mouthes but theyr hertes be verie farre from hym Natha All thys is well expounded but tell me yet further wherfore thou putteste to thinges goynge before creator of heauen earth Phy. For to declare that he is the author the begynnynge and the originall of all thynges whyche he hathe all made and hath not bene made as the Goddes of the panymes which they haue taken and chosen amongest men haue not made one so exceleÌ„t a work as the artificers whyche be mortall men and can do nothynge of theÌ„ selues excepte they haue the matter and the instrumentes propre and conueniente for the purpose but he hath made all of nothynge wythout healpe councel or assistence of anye maner creature by hym selfe hys eternall worde as all the scriptures do gyue cleare testimonie and principally Moyses whyche doeth largly discryue the historie Psal Cxiii Esai iiii Gene. i. ii of the makynge of the worlde thys addition then doeth not onelye deliuer vs from the errour of the Epicures whyche denye the prouidence of God but also from that of the peripatticiens and other made philosophers whyche haue holden and affirmed that the worlde was eternall and that it was not created whych is a doctrine to tuâ—â—ie vpsedown al the order of God al religion and al goodnes furthermore thys worde admonisheth vs howe we oughte to learne to knowe God Gods creatures be hys Images by hys caeatures and to beholde hym in theÌ„ seynge that he is inuisible and incomprehensible in hys essence and maiestie for all thys presente worlde is as a shope in the whyche God this souerayne workmaster dothe open This worlde is the shop temple of God set abrode hys workes to the ende that by the same the worker be knowen Thys world is also a churche or a temple in the whyche there is not so lytle a creature but it is an Image of his creatour a mirrour or glasse to shewe and manifeste hym vnto vs wherefore it doeth followe that they whyche wyl represente God by Image made wyth handes of men do hym greate wronge and do not well vnderstande thys article for what similitude hath the worke of manne wyth the worke of God Or whych shal better represeÌ„t the great workeman hys owne workes or the workes of men whyche be nothynge lyke or in comparison to hys excepte we wyl compare in liynge and vnstablenes Natha I do well vnderstand all thys but seynge that he is father and creatour of al thynges wherefore calleste thou him onelye creatour of heauen and earth Phy. Bicause that those two creatures which be the most excellente and manifest vnto man do conprehend all the other whyche be in them comprised or that be neighbour or nerer vnto theyr nature Nathanaell What wylte thou vnderstande Diuers significations of the firmameÌ„t by the heauen Phyl. As the heauen is taken in diuers significations in the holy scriptures so I do vnderstande diuers thynges accordynge to the significations whyche be to him appropried Nathanoell What be those significations Phy. The fyrste and moste vulgar and commune signification is when we vnderstande the firmamente whyche couereth all and the speres celestiall in the whyche bee conteyned as well the sterres as the plannettes for to serue vnto man Natha Signifieth it anye more Phy. Thys name is also vsurped very The troue of God often for the ayre and for the regions nere the celestial speres bicause they do approch more nere vnto hys nature and that they bee elementes more pure Natha Is ther any more or other signification Phy. Forasmuche also as man can not sufficientlye distriue the maiestie of God but by humayne thynges and ther is no fayrer more noble
should be a newe God whiche had some beginnynge the whyche is a thinge repugnaunt vnto the nature of God Natha But mai not God do what so euer he wyll in asmuche as the diuinitie of Iesus Christe can not be seperated from hys humanitie is not hys bodye in all places wher his diuinitie is Phy. Nothinge is impossible vnto God and albeit he may do al yet neuertheles his power is aswayes conioyned wyth hys wisdome and vseth it not disordinatly but alwayes in suche sorte that hys worckes be not confused but that hys creature abideth alwayes a creature gyuing him suche propreties as he will and yet foloweth it not that the diuinitie and humanitie of oure Lorde Iesus Christe be so inseperable that hys humanitie fulfilleth the heauen and the earth as hys diuinitie doeth for my body and my spirite be conioyned togyther and yet it foloweth not therefore that my bodye shoulde be in all places where my spirite maye be for my spirite maye be rauished euen vp into heauen and yet my bodye neuertheles shal be in the earth or and if thou loueste better the cōparison of Saynt Austen God dwelleth in vs by hys holy spirite and yet neuertheles we be not in all places and enerye where where God is albeit he dwelleth in Iesus Christe otherwyse then in vs but thys ioyninge togither or comunction of two natures doeth not take from the natures theyr propreties Natha But is there no difference betwen the bodies glorified and the mortall and corruptible bodies Phy. Yes verye greate and I denye not but The glorious body of chirst that the gloriousse bodie of Iesus Christe is now farre other then it was before his death and resurrectiō yet hathe he not for all that chaūged his body but hath alwaies kept the same he had before hathe not chaunged his substaūce except that he hath put of the qualities of imperfectiōs miseres which he toke for vs is immortal glorious or otherwise he shoulde not be trulie rysen nor we shoulde not call the resurrection resurrection excepte that same propre bodie and that same propre flesh whych is fallen by death were rysen vp agayne nor shoulde not receyue lyfe by the same so myght it be rather called mutation or chaunging thē resurrectiō thē to dispute subtellye curiouslye of the properties of the bodye glorified of the place where the bodye of Iesus Christe is shoulde be a thynge not onelye vnseamynge but also vnworthye of the simplicitie and of the euangelicall doctriue we ought to contēt our selues to knowe Luke xxiiii Iohn xxi that Iesus Christe is in the celestiall glorye and that he hath a verie true body such as he shewed it vnto hys disciples hauyng fleshe bones and that it is not chaunged into spirite but doeth holde alwayes the properties of a verye true bodye suche as appertayneth vnto a verye and true glorified bodye whyche not wythstādynge it hath put of al humaine infirmities yet followeth it not for all that that it is in al places nor in diuers or manye places al at one tyme instante We oughte to beleue that he is in heauen sette vpon the ryghte hande of God hys father where as Act. vii saynte Stephan dyd see hym For to dispute and diffine what is thys heauen that ryght hande of God is here no neade but is more sure to putte it of and leaue oure disputation vnto the tyme we came there and maye se it by experience and that we maye vse suche diligence to folowe Iesus Christe in the tyme we be in thys lyfe that we may come thether and beholde hym Natha And if it be thus as thou sayest howe can we make it agree wyth that whyche the priestes make vs beleue that the body of Iesu Christ is in the hoste betwene theyr handes The corporal presence or in the pixkes euen as greate and large as he was vpō the crosse Phy. They whyche beleue that beleue not that he is sette vpon the ryghte hand of God And shall come frō thense to iudge the quicke and the dead Natha Wherefore not Maye he not as well come downe and goe vp by the vertue of the sacramentall wordes as he is goue vp Phy. To what purpose or what neade is it that he should come downe descend or ascende seing he fulfilled all by hys vertue and power If it were neadful that hys bodie should be presented vnto vs carnallye wherefore is not he taried wyth vs or wherefore is he not returned to be cōuersaunte as he was before with hys disciples wherefore did he saye vnto his disciples It is expediente for yo◠that I depart for excepte I depart that conforter shall not come If the corporal presēce he Iesu christ dyd wyth holde the hertes of the Apostles here in this lowe earth and dyd hyndre them to knowe hym spirituallye howe shoulde he haue wylled vs to sette oure spirites to seeke hym in almorsell of breade in the handes of a synner or in a pixce or boxe hathe he not sayed he woulde be prayed vnto of them whiche shoulde honoure and seeke hym in spirite and in trueth and that suche be the true honorers and howe shall wee honoure hym in spirite trueth if we goe aboute to seeke and honoure hym in visible and corruptible thynges and Ihon. iiii in houses made wyth the handes of menne and to muse vpon a morsell of breade or vpō a pyxe or boxe howe maye thys agree wyth that whyche Saynte Paule commaundeth vs sayinge If ye be rysen agayne wyth Iesus Christe seeke not the thynges whyche be Colo. iii. on the earth but those that be aboue wher Iesus Christe is vpon the ryght hande of God the father or wherefore do the priestes synge in theyr masses Sursum corda haue your hertes on hye and wherfore do the other answer We haue thē to God Why wyll they rote them here in thys lowe earth and holde them in the Imagination of corporall and carnall presence rather then to learne them to know Iesus Christe spirituallye makynge theim to fele the fruite of hys bitter death passiō For thys cause hath he instituted hys holye Institucion of the supper supper not for to make vs seke a corporal presence but for to represent hym self vnto vs by these visible sygnes for to learne vs by the same to go vp into heauen to hym for he wyl not that we drawe hym from heauen by wordes as coniurars and enchaunters but will drawe vs vnto hym self by hys holy spiritte and wylleth that oure hertes be lyfted by vnto hym and that we there be traunslated and traunsported by hys vertue to receiue repast nouryshmente of hys fleshe of hys bloud wherefore it is no neade that he shoulde descend or go vp for if he myght not communicate hys fleshe and hys bloude vnto vs other wyse then by hys corporall and carnall presence and wythout descendynge