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B00812 A dialogue philosophicall. Wherein natures secret closet is opened, and the cause of all motion in nature shewed ovt of matter and forme, tending to mount mans minde from nature to supernaturall and celestial promotion: and how all things exist in the number of three. : Together with the wittie inuention of an artificiall perpetuall motion, presented to the kings most excellent maiestie. / All which are discoursed betweene two speakers, Philadelph, and Theophrast, brought together by Thomas Tymme, professour of diuinitie.. Tymme, Thomas, d. 1620. 1612 (1612) STC 24416; ESTC S95612 68,496 81

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spirit of the Elements The third is an Earthie and watrie substance both together carying the body of the Elements vnder the name of Earth Philadelph I pray you declare vnto me the complexions and qualities of these three principles Salt Sulphur and Mercurie that I may vnderstand how they agree with those of the Elements Theophrast Mercurie is a sharpe liquor fluible and penetrable and a most pure Aethereall and substantiall body a substance Aierie most subtill quickning and full of spirit the seede of life and an essentiall forme comprehended in Aire Sulphur is a moist sweet oile-like clammy originall which giueth substance to it selfe the nourishment of Fire or of a naturall heate endued with the force of molifying and conioyning together comprehended in water Salt is that dry body saltish meerely earthie representing the nature of Salt endued with wonderfull vertues of dissoluing congealing cleansing emptying and with other infinite qualities comprehended in earth These three principles were called by the fore-said Hermes Spirit Soule and Body Mercurie Spirit Sulphur the Soule and Salt the body The body is ioyned with the spirit by the bond of the Soule Sulphur for that it hath affinitie with both the extreames as a meane coupling them together For Mercurie as is said is liquide thinne and fluible Sulphur is a soft oyle passable Salt is dry thicke and stable the which three are so proportionate together and tempered one with the other that there is a great Analogie conueniencie in this contrariety of beginnings For Sulphur with his humiditie oyle-like ioyneth as a meane the two extreames fixed Salt and flying Mercurie that is to say the drinesse of Salt and the moistnesse of Mercurie are contempered with the viscous humidity of Sulphur the thicknesse of Salt and the subtilty of Mercurie which are contrary are tempered with the fluidity of Sulphur Moreouer Sulphur by his exceeding sweetnesse doth contemper the sharpnesse or sowernesse of Mercurie and the bitternesse of Salt and by his clamminesse doth conioyne the subtill flying of Mercurie with the firmenesse and stability of Salt Thus of these three all naturall bodies are compounded Philadelph You said before that Fire is the Author of all formes and actions in vniuersall nature I pray you shew vnto me after what manner it is so to be reputed Theophrast Fire by his winde and spirit carieth and conuayeth his seeds into the belly of the earth whereby the generation fruit is nourished fostered and groweth and is at the last thrust forth out of the lap and bosome of the Elements This Heauen or Fire albeit it is no complexion in it selfe that is to say neither hot nor colde moist nor dry yet by his naturall disposition it yeeldeth to all things heate and colde moisture and drinesse For so much as there are starres which haue their most colde and moist spirits as the Saturnals and Lunaries others most hot and dry as the Solarie and Martials others hot and moist as the Iouials who by their vertues and complexion wherewith euery starre is endued doe forme fashion and impregnate all these inferiour things in such wise that some indiuiduals are of that condition and complexion which they haue borrowed and taken from their framing or fashioning starre or planet other some of another complexion which they haue obtained according to the condition of other starres For God hath giuen to Heauen most perfect and simple seedes such as are the Planets and Starres which hauing in them vitall faculties and complexions doe powre them forth into the lap of the inferiour Elements animating and forming them Neither doth this Heauen at any time cease frō his working nor the Astrall seeds thereof because their vertues are so abundant that they are neuer exhausted nor yet doe they suffer alteration or diminution of their faculties wherby they may cease from procreating or forming albeit at sometime they doe make more or lesse fruitfull than at other times Hereupon commeth that perpetuall circulation by the benefit whereof the seeds of the Elements or their matter are coupled with the seeds of the starres thrusting their contained seed into the maternall lap that it may forme bring forth a kindly off-spring For as Heauen is said to worke vpon the Earth so also the inferiour Elements doe yeeld and bestow their actions and motions albeit after another manner because Heauen is altogether actiue and nothing passiue being of a Homogeniall and most perfect nature and is therefore incorruptible and immutable vntill the predestinate end of things created Philadelph Are then those three Salt Sulphur and Mercurie the Essentiall and first principles of the Heauen Theophrast God in creating Heauen separated out of the Chaos or confused Masse the most pure from the impure that is to say he reduced the more pure and Aethereall Mercurie the more pure inextinguible starres and lights into a Crystaline Diamontine substance or most simple body which is called Heauen the highest fourth formall Element that from the same the formes as it were seeds might be powred forth as is before shewed into the more grosse Elements to the generation of all things Therefore it cannot be denied but that Heauen doth consist of those three principles albeit most simple but yet of the most pure spirituous and altogether formall If wee will beholde the purity of the Heauen aboue other elements and the constancie thereof looke then vpon those bright and shining fires continually glittering with light to whom the Heauen hath giuen the most pure in extinguible Sulphureus substance whereof they consist For such as the Heauen is in essence such fruits hath it brought forth therein as touching substance out of whose vitall impressions and influences they procreate and bring forth some likenesse of themselues in the more grosse Elements but yet according as the matter is more grosse more thinne more durable more constant or more transitorie And the influences of such fires are Mercuriall spirits but the light and shining brightnesse is Sulphur their fixed Heauens or vitriall Christalline circles is a salt body which circles are so pure shining and fixed that a Diamond which partaketh of the nature of fixed Salt is not of more purity continuance and perpetuity then they are Philadelph What say you to the Element of Aire doth that also consist of Salt Sulphur and Mercurie If it doe shew mee I pray you the manner how Theophrast The beginnings of Aire are all one with the other but yet more grosse lesse pure and lesse spirituous and simple then the beginnings celestiall notwithstanding that they are much more perfect thinne and penetrating than are the waterie and terrestriall Mercuries and Sulphurs and are such that next to Heauen Aire hath the preheminence of actiuitie and power whose powers and effects are to be seene in diuers and sundry winds which are Mercuriall fruits the spirits of the Aierie Element whose Sulphurs also are discerned to be pure and brght in burning Comets which are no
yet Temperament doth not comprehend in it alone the efficacie of all functions but of those onely which after a certaine manner doe retaine and set forth the nature and condition of the first qualities For in temperament and mixture it is very necessary that one or two qualities doe excell which because they are superiour they challenge vnto them all the efficiencie of temperament in such wise that whatsoeuer is effected by it the same is said to be perfected by them albeit the rest are not idle For that which we perceiue to be hot doth heate albeit more faintly then fire And that which is hot and dry doth both heate and dry together Neither can any function come out of the Temperament which is not referred to the nature and power of the predominant quality This if it be alone and pure shall haue the forces of the Element but if it be tempered with the mixture of the contrary it shall still containe the same forces albeit obscure and inferiour For the repugnancie of the contrary may hinder the forces of the predominant quality excesse but it cannot vtterly suppresse and quaile the nature and strength thereof Therfore it is necessary that the power of the predominant Element doe abide and domineere in the temperament albeit the same power be weaker oppressed which enclining alwaies to the accustomed nature can produce no effect out of another different kinde And to perswade you that the rules goe thus it seemeth good to me to vse a more subtill reason The true mixture is of bodies the temperament is of qualities onely But contrary qualities doe not mutually passe into themselues or one into another saith Aristotle For heate doth not passe into colde nor moistnesse into drinesse or contrariwise but the subiect body onely doth suffer change For heate is not subiect to colde nor colde to heate but that which is subiect to either is Matter Therfore if ye thinke that contraries cannot passe into themselues how shall it come to passe that a new power or quality should arise out of the contemperament of the chiefe qualities which hauing gotten a different nature doth nothing sauour or taste those chiefe qualities Wherefore it is necessarie that the forces which arise out of the principall qualities doe immitate the nature of the superiour and ruling quality Philadelph I see verely the reasons of this conclusion Tell me therfore I pray you what force of effecting doe you thinke hath the matter gotten at the last For seeing it is rude without forme only subiect to beare the formes of things it effecteth nothing at all but suffereth endureth all order of change Theophrast I doe not hold and determine that there are any forces and functions in the simple and bare matter of things but in that matter which is compounded of mixed substances of the Elements Aristotle in diuers places sheweth that of the foure first qualities two that is to say Heate and Colde are actiue and are therefore called efficient the other two that is to say Moyst and Dry are called passiue so in like manner concerning the beginnings of nature Fire and Ayre are as causes efficient but water and earth are as the matter patient That same Aristotle pronounceth those things which are more potent and excellent in strength simply efficients but Water and Earth which are lesse potent hee maketh the matter of compound and thicke bodies and calleth the qualities of these drinesse and moistnesse Liuing creatures saith he doe liue and conuerse onely in the earth and in the water and not in the Aire and Fire because earth and water are the matters of bodies and therefore he addeth these words That which suffereth is either dry or moist or else compounded of both and for this cause water is said to be the body of moistnesse and earth the body of drinesse because amongst moist and dry things they are most passiue Hereof I gather that moistnesse and drinesse are patible qualities and that earth and water wherein is much moistnesse and drinesse are the matter of naturall bodies Therefore for good considerations we do call the same the vertue and quality of matter which Aristotle is wont to call the secundarie qualities arising from the patible and also calleth them corporall effects as are hard and soft thicke and thinne tough and brittle light and sharpe and such like all which are hidden and contained in matter Also Aristotle respecting the power and qualities of the Elements calleth them efficients but yet after a more subtill manner but when he considereth their substance then he affirmeth all of them to be patible and the matter of naturall bodies whereof all creatures which are in the vniuersall frame of this world consist This therefore is the matter of mixt bodies which being compunded of the matter of the elements and of the vertue of their qualities hath the same forces which I called secundarie and from whence all that is soft hard thick and thinne proceedeth And this is the cause why our meates doe nourish quicker or slower and why they haue vertue to stop to open or to cleanse Philadelph Your speech importeth thus much as I take it as if you should say that such forces doe one while proceede from the qualities of the elements and sometime from their matter and yet neuerthelesse the forces both of the qualities and matter doe apparantly come from the elements themselues Theophrast They seeme to proceede in deede from both if as well the one as the other seeme Elementarie but yet except those forces which proceede from the qualities be discerned from those which the matter yeeldeth there will no doubt be great ambiguity in things and much confusion which if you thinke good to cleare and auoid you shall driue the effects of the elements from the temperament and the effects of the consistence from the matter Philadelph I like the distinction of your Homonomye now therefore proceede with the third sort of forces namely of that which concerneth forme Theophrast If the forme of a naturall thing which is the perfection of the whole be farre more excellent than either the matter or the temperament who I pray you is so mad and so blinde in the contemplation of things as to thinke that matter and temperament haue their forces and effects and that forme should be idle and nothing auaileable in the power of acting That the accidents should haue in it a naturall effecting power and the substance which of all other is most chiefe should be destitute of all acting power to doe any thing which to thinke is too absurd I for my part attribute so much force to the formes of bodies that I verely thinke that all those effects which we behold in the things created doe chiefly and especially proceede from them And the rather I am of this opinion because Aristotle confirmeth the same For he opposing himselfe against certaine Philosophers which deduced the powers of naturall bodies from
flouds there haue contrary courses to those of ours concerning encreasing and decreasing Because there saith he they encrease in the wane of the Moone but here with vs in the full Theophrast If the report of Vertomannus be true then are all the times and seasons by the motion of the Heauens in the Hemisphaere contrary vnto those of ours in this Hemisphaere in such wise that as the people enhabiting there are Antipodes vnto vs so also with them it is Sommer when Winter with vs and night with them when day with vs and then no meruaile if it be there with them a full Sea when the Moone is in the wane and low water in the full Moone contrarie to the flouds and ebbes here Philadelph Let it be as you say and suppose Whereas you said before that the Sea hath sometime a turbulent and raging motion what is the reason thereof Theophrast There are two causes of such motion One is certaine exhalations bred in the Sea causing windes to breake forth from thence And sometime a multitude of dry exhalations drawne vp from the Earth into the aire causing stormie windes which breake the course of the Sea to the greatamazement of Marriners and perill of Ships Who yet are so sodainly taken in such stormes but that they haue fore-warnings thereof by certaine tokens precedent as by the roaring of the Sea in a great calme by the sporting and playing of Dolphins and Porpoyses aboue the waters and by certaine visible fires called S. Helen S. Nicholas and S. Clare which are wont to hang on the Mastes of the Ships dazeling the eyes of such as are there After which fires and other shew tokens there followeth vndoubtedly in very short time great and intollerable tempest Philadelph What fires are they which you so name and sanctifie Are they not Spirits Theophrast They are no spirits but naturall things proceeding of naturall causes and are ingendred of certaine exhalations Of these Hieronimus Cardanus writeth after this manner There are two manner of Fires ingendred of exhalations whereof one is hurtfull the other without hurt That which is hurtfull is fire indeede ingendred of euill and venomous vapours which in continuance of time take fire as apt matters to be kindled The other kinde is no true fire but like the matter that is in such olde putrified wood as giueth the shining of fire without the substance and quality thereof Of the true kinde of fire is the fire-ball commonly called S. Helen which is sometime seene about the Masts of Ships being of such fierie nature that sometime it melteth brasen vessels and is a token of drowning for as much as this chaunceth onely in great tempests for the vapour or exhalation whereof this fire is ingendred connot be compact in forme of fire but is of a grosse vapour and by a great power of winde put together and is therefore a token of imminent perill As on the contrary part the like Fires called in olde time Castor and Pollux and now named the two lights of S. Peter and S. Nicholas which for the most part fall on the cables of the Ships leaping from one to another with a certaine flattering noise like birds are a token of security and of the tempest ouerpassed For they are but vapours cleauing to the Cables which in successe of time the fire passing from one to another appeare in the similitude of a light candle They are a token of security because they are litle not slow or grosse whereby they might all haue ioyned together in one thereby haue beene the more malicious and lasted longer whereas being many and but little they are the sooner consumed Thus farre Cardanus Philadelph I haue not heard of these Sea-fires before But I haue read of certaine whirle-pooles into the which what Ship so euer commeth it is swallowed vp and the fragments of the lost Ship are seldome cast vp againe What is the reason of this whi●le-pooles motion Theophrast I haue likewise read that in the Norwegian Sea are three Ilands namely Lofoth Langanes and Vastrad The Sea that runneth betweene these Ilands is called Muscostrom which signifieth boyling The Sea when it floweth here is swallowed into certaine Gulphes or Caues and is blowne out againe at the ebbe with no lesse violence then the streames of riuers which fall from the mountaines The reason why they are swallowed vp which chance to fall in with this or the like Sea is the eddie water which whirling round about with the violent fall of the Sea which before was pent in with the Ilands maketh a great Indraught which violently sucketh and swalloweth sodainly This is the wonderfull power of Nature passing the fabulous Sympleiades and the fearefull Malea with the dangerous places of Silla and Charibdis and all other miracles that Nature hath wrought in any other Sea hitherto knowne vnto men Now friend Philadelph to the end you may the better vnderstand what hath beene spoken before concerning the motion of the celestiall Orbes and also that you may plainly see as in a glasse how the Region of Fire and Aire vnder the Moone doe compasse about the Earth and Sea as also for the better perceiuing of things to be spoken hereafter behold this Mathematicall Figure following This outtermost circle of this figure of all the Sphaeres which is infinite doth represent the habitacle of God who was before all time and place Time and Place began when this created World began to be CHAP. III. Philadelph FOr so much as the Earth and Sea make but one globous body vnited and combined together I pray you describe the forme thereof vnto me Theophrast The globous body of the Earth in comparison of the Heauens circumference is a very small body lesse then the Sunne and bigger then the Moone extending it selfe within a small distance of the fierie Region and in that regard is a great body Philadelph Doth not this Earth being a spungeous body sucke into it and partake of the Salt that is in the Sea which if it doe so in my opinion it should procure barrennesse to the Earth Theophrast You haue forgotten it seemeth what I said before where I shewed you that the Salt of the Sea containeth in it the radicall Balsam of Nature and being so it is the cause of the generation first of most pretious pearles in the shels of fishes and of Corall springing out of the bowels of hard stones and rockes spreading forth branches like a Tree Salt is so farre from making the Earth barren that it fructifieth the same making it fat and giuing it power to be fruitfull Salt encreaseth and giueth a vegetating and growing vertue with seede in euery terrene thing For what other thing is it which maketh the Earth fat and bringeth to passe that one graine multipheth into an hundred but a certaine stercoration and spreading of dung and vrine of men and beasts vpon the eatrh which compast is full of Salt What other thing openeth the earth and