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A88157 An answer to nine arguments. Written by T. B. Wherein is plainly from the scriptures shewed, the weaknesse of his arguments, whereby he undertakes to prove both the Church and Ministry of England true; as likewise describing the nature and properties of a true Church and Ministry. Written long since by that faithfull servant of God and his countrey, John Lilburne Lieftenant [sic] Collonell: and now published for further good, by a well-willer to him and the truth. Lilburne, John, 1614?-1657. 1645 (1645) Wing L2081; Thomason E25_7; ESTC R212845 46,842 48

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my Sorrow for you to see you who are so mighty a Champian as you boast your selfe to be to reason so shallowly and ungroundedly for if your Argument be true then all the Nations under Heaven are true visible Churches of Christ for it is not possible that the Heathenest Nation in the World should runne out of Gods Voyce and Call Psal 139.7.8.9 For saith Dauid If I ascend up into Heaven thou art there if I make my Bed in Hell behold thou art there if I take the Wings of the Morning and dwell in the uttermost part of the Sea even there shall thy hand lead me and thy right hand shall hold me if I say surely the darknes shall cover me even the night shall be light about me yea the darknes hideth not from thee but the night shineth as the day the darknes and the light are both alike to thee And also see Amos. 9.1.2.3 Where you may also read that no place can hide a people from Gods presence or call so that I say no place can exempt a people from Gods voyce but wheresoever they are he can find them out and by his Judgements laid upon a Nation or Peeple whether they be Pagans Heathens and Infidels that professedly serve and worship Idols and nothing else or whether they be a Nation of seeming Christians as England is no more like the Samaritanes that professe the Worship of the true God and yet serve their Idols 2. King 17.32.33 yet take them in which sence you will I say they are within the Voyce and call of God and by his Judgements and Plagues laid upon them for their sinnes he calls them to Repentance that so they might not perish but be saved as the Apostle Paull in the first of the Romans doth largly prove Vers 18.19 and so forward So that by your Argment all the Nations under Heaven are visible Churches of Christ for I thus frame my Argument according to your owne grounds All the Nations of the Earth that are within the Voyce and call of God calling them to Faith and Repentance that so they may be saved are true Churches But all the Pagan and Heathen Notions in the World are within the Voyce and call of God as I have already proved Ergo. They are true visible Churches Deny any part of the Argument if you can and prove against it But for the proofe of your Argument you cite Math. 20.16 where it is said Many are called but few chosen the first part of the words Many are called you say but doe not prove that we are to understand them of the visible Church which are called to the outward preaching of the word to which I answere and say you are not an Oracle of God that we must beleeve your sayings without ground for you bring no proofe for what you say but your owne bare Affirmations but if you will be an Oraclo it is but a lying Oracle and not of Gods you say they are called to the outward preaching of the Word it seemes to me that you will have all the people in a Nation that are within Gods call to be Preachers and then what shall become of all your Preists for if this be not your meaning I know not what you drive at but for that place of Scripture many are called but few are chosen I understand it thus many there was that heard the Word of God and seemingly professed it as they that came to Johns Baptisme and Herod that reformed many things and those many great multitudes that Christ preached unto many of which made an outward profession of him for a time but it was but for the loaves as he himselfe doth witnesse John 6.26.27 so here are many called to the outward profession of the Gospell but saith the Text few are chosen that is to say ehough there be many that make a formall profession of Christ and have the ouiside of Christianity yet few are they that are chosen either to Christs glorious kingdome with his father or are chosen and admitted as visible members and Subjects in his visible Church or Kingdome which in Scripture hath many and divers names as Syon Jerusalem his holy Mountaine the Lords holy place the kingdome of Heaven Psal 54.7.147.12 Fsa 62.6.65.9.11 Psal 68.17.33.46.4 Mat. 20.1 Rev. 21.1.10 this exposition of the place I plainly prove from Christs preaching to so many as he did the most of which for a time did outwardly prosesse him yet all those great multitudes that he preached unto and wrought Miracles amongst at his death there was but an hundred and twenty that entered into communion to worship him in a visible Church Acts 1.15 and in the second of the Acts Peter preached to a great multitude of people yet that multitude were not members of a true visible Church neither before he preached to them nor after but only so many of them as declared and manifested faith which were to the Number of three Thowsand and they were added or joyned to the Church and the Apostle commands them to save or seperate themselves from the rest of the multitude which he preached unto seing they did not peleeve nor were never the better for his preaching saying Save your selves from thes untoward Generatron Vers 40.41 For the Lord would not have them to joyne Riffe Raffe and all sorts of people to the Church to whom the Word was preached but only those that declared the worke of Grace to be wrought in their hearts therefore the Spirit of God saith The Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved Now though I grant the Kingdome of England is within the Voyce and call of God calling the people thereof to Repentance that so they may be saved yet I grant no more then what all the Nations under Heaven are therefore you cannot conclude from this Ground that the Church of England is a true Church of Christ seing the Whol Nation good or bad wicked or righteous godly or ungodly have all one and the same Priviledge by virtue of their being professed Membees of your Ch. therefore from that which hath been said I frame this Argument That the true visible Church of Christ under the Gospell doeth not consist of all sorts and kinds of people to whom the word of God is preached but only to such persons who by their outward Conversation may be judged to be true Beleevers Esay 4.3.35.8.9.10.51.11 Rom. 1.7 1. Cor. 1.7 Rev. 22.14 But the Church of England is not made up nor doeth not consist of true Beleevers that is to say Saints by calling and practice but of all sorts and kinds of wicked persons as Witches Sorcerers Whoremungers Drunkards Idolaters Swearers Blasphemers all sorts of Prophane Lewd Wicked livers Ergo It is no true Church of Christ but a false and Antichristian Church of Antichrists 2. Cor. 6.9.10 Rev. 9.20.21 and 13.8.16.17 and 21.27 and 22.15 Both the Proposition and Assumption I have already strongly proved