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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A42386	A brief examination of the present Roman Catholick faith contained in Pope Pius his new creed, by the Scriptures, antient fathers and their own modern writers, in answer to a letter desiring satisfaction concerning the visibility of the protestant church and religion in all ages, especially before Luther's time.	Gardiner, Samuel, 1619 or 20-1686.	1689 (1689)	Wing G244; ESTC R29489	119,057	129

Durand Rationale lib. 6. c. 72. Turrecremata de Consecrat Distinct 2. num 4. Ad annum Christi 304. Nomine Christianorum deleto qui rempub evertebant in the days of Dioclesian the worst and last persecutor of Christians such havock and prodigious destruction was made of the Christian Church that several Trophies and Monuments as Baronius grants were set up in Spain in memory of the total extirpation of Christianity superstitione Christi ubique deletâ Where was then the conspicuous as Costerus phraseth it and illustrious state of the Catholick or particular Roman Church Surely had not the Church of Rome her self as well as other Christian Churches been in a great degree invisible as to the knowledge of the Roman Emperour and his Inquisitors in all humane probability the name of Christians as they boasted had been wholly rooted out I might add the state of the Christian Church even Roman Ingemuit totus orbis se factum esse Arianum admiratus est Dialog contra Luciferianos under the prevalency of Arianism and its heretical Head Pope Liberius when as St. Hierom writes the whole World sighed and wonder'd how it became Arian When the Catholick Bishops were banish'd from their Sees and the Orthodox Christians forsaking the Churches worshipped God in cryptis in private houses and corners Concerning which deplorable times St. Hilary writeth in this manner to such as communicated with the Arians Malè vo●●●s parietum amor cepit malè Ecclesiam Dei in tectis aedisiciisque veneramini Montes mihi lacus carceres sunt tutiores Addit Rarumesse apud Orientem invenire aut Episcopum aut populum Catholicum Lib. contr Auxentium Quae nunc Ecclesia Christum liberè adorat Siquid●m si pia est periculo subjacet Nam si alicubi sunt pii sunt atem ubique tales permulti illi itidem absconduntur c. Epist ad solitariam vitam agent Vid. Apolog. ejus ad Constant de fuga You are ill taken with the love of walls you ill seek or reverence the Church of God in Houses and Structures Mountains and Prisons and Dungeons are safer He adds that 't was hard to find in the East a Catholick Bishop or people Athanasius saith as much or more What Church saith he now adores Christ freely Seeing if it be pious it is in danger For if there be some pious and studious of Christ as there are every where many such they also as the great Prophet ELIAS are hid thrust themselves into holes and caverns of the Earth or wander in solitude These things being undeniably evident I desire to know whether in those days the true Church was not only visible but very conspicuous to the sight of all men so that it might be evidently distinguish'd and as it were pointed at with the finger as Costerus and Valentia affirm But what need is there of many words in this case Pauiò ante mundi finem externus status Ecclesiae Romanae cessabit publicum fidelium cum eâdem commercium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 passim obtinebit tamen tunc pii corde Papâ Ecclesiâ Romana communicabunt Rhemenses in Annotat. in animo cum 2 Thess 2. Revel 12. when our Adversaries themselves grant that a little before the end of the World when Antichrist shall come the external state of the Roman Church shall cease and that the publick worship of God shall by persecution be suppressed and that the truly pious shall communicate with the Pope only in heart and soul The difference then betwixt them and us cometh only to this that what we say hath been they say shall be hereafter whilst it is agreed on both sides that an illustrious conspicuous visibility is no essential property or inseparable note of the true Church Texts alledged for Visibility as meant by the Papists answered I now come to examine the places of Scripture mention'd in your Letter to evince the contrary The first and principal urg'd by Valentia and many other is Matth 15.14 15. Ye are the light of the World. A City that is set on an Hill cannot be hid Neither do men light a Candle to put it under a Bushel c. To which may be added Isa 2.2.60.20.61.9 Dan. 7.14 quoted in your Paper To all which the same Answer may be applied My reply is that those words do not prove a perpetual conspicuous and illustrious visibility of the Church in all Ages to all persons which our Adversaries contend for First Because the words are not spoken at least directly of the Church general or successive in all Ages but of and to the Apostles personally Ye are the light of the World. And seeing they were commanded by our Saviour to teach all Nations we may reasonably suppose that they were under a special protection of divine Providence until they had fulfill'd the work committed unto them But the case of ordinary Pastors and Teachers of the Church is not the same with that of Apostles Secondly Suppose we understand the words of the Church general or successive which we grant to be a light to the ignorant World and like a City set on a Hill yet it cannot be deny'd yea our Adversaries grant it that this light of Apostolick doctrine in the Church may be obscur'd or eclipsed by error Aug. Epist ad Vincentium supra scandal and persecumay be obscur'd or eclipsed by error scandal and persecution as the Sun and Moon sometimes are tho they be glorious and most visible lights In like manner a City set on an Hill may be so clouded by foggy mists and vapors that it may become for some time invisible at least not so visible or conspicuous as that any man may point at it with his finger The other Similitude of Mens lighting a Candle and setting it on a Candlestick that so it may give light to all in the House signifies the clearness universality and diffusiveness of the doctrine taught by the Apostles But that any one particular Church Greek or Roman should be such a Candlestick as can never fail or be remov'd as well as that of Ephesus and many other Apostolical Churches wholly rooted out by Mahometanism Revel 2. or which should be as our Adversaries too grosly affirm more visible and discernable to all men than the light it self viz. of the Gospel contain'd in the Scripture plac'd in the Candlestick i. e. the Church this I suppose no prudent man will take to be our Saviour's meaning in those words That they make their Church the Candlestick and its Authority more visible to us than the truth or light of the holy Scripture is so notorious I will not stand to prove it * Quae sit vera scriptura quis ejus verus sensus non possumus scire nisi ex Testimonio verae Ecclesiae Bellarmin de Notis Eccl. lib 4. c. 2. In a word A Candle tho burning clearly on a Candlestick

A Brief EXAMINATION Of the present Roman Catholick Faith Contained in Pope PIUS HIS New Creed BY The Scriptures Antient Fathers and their own Modern Writers in Answer to a Letter desiring satisfaction concerning the Visibility of the Protestant Church and Religion in all Ages especially before Luther's time Imprimatur Octob. 26. 1688. Guil. Needham London Printed for James Adamson at the Angel and Crown in St. Pauls Church-yard 1689. Pope Pius his CREED OR THE Profession of the Roman Catholick Faith. V. Bullam Pii 4. super forma professionis fidei sub finem Concilii Tridentini THAT the Profession of one and the same Faith may be uniformly exhibited to all and its certain form may be known to all we have caused it to be published strictly commanding that the Profession of Faith be made after this form and no other I N. do with firm Faith believe and profess all and singular things contained in the Creeds to wit Nicene c. which the Roman Church useth namely I believe in God the Father Almighty maker of Heaven and Earth and of all things visible and invisible c. The Apostolick and Ecclesiastical Traditions and other observances and Constitutions of that Church I firmly admit and embrace I do also confess that there be truly and properly Seven Sacraments of the new Law instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ Extreme Vnction Orders Marriage c. And that they confer Grace All things which concerning Original Sin and Justification were defined in the 4th Council of Trent I embrace and receive Also I confess that in the Mass is offered to God a true proper and propitiatory Sacrifice for the quick and dead and that in the Holy Eucharist is truly really and substantially the body and bloud of our Lord and that there is made a conversion of the whole substance of the Bread into his Body and of the Wine into his Bloud which conversion the Catholick Church calleth Transubstantiation I confess also that under one kind onely all and whole Christ and the true Sacrament is received I do constantly hold there is a Purgatory and the Souls detained there are helped by the suffrages of the Faithful And likewise that the Saints reigning with Christ are to be worshipped and prayed to and that their Reliques are to be worshipped And most firmly I avouch that the Images of Christ and the Mother of God and other Saints are to be had and retained and that to them due honour and veneration is to be given Also that the power of Indulgences was left by Christ in the Church and I affirm the use thereof to be most wholesome to Christs people That the Holy Catholick and Apostolick Roman Church is the Mother and Mistris of all Churches I acknowledge and I vow and swear true obedience to the Bishop of Rome the Successour of St. Peter the Prince of the Apostles and the Vicar of Jesus Christ And all other things likewise do I undoubtingly receive and confess which are delivered defined and declared by the sacred Canons and General Councils and especially the Holy Council of Trent And withal I condemn and accurse all things that are contrary hereunto and that I will be careful this true Catholick Faith out of the which no man can be saved which at this time I willingly profess be constantly with Gods help retained and confessed whole and inviolate to the last gasp and by those that are under me holden taught and preached to the uttermost of my power I the said N. promise vow and swear So God me help and his Holy Gospels A Brief EXAMINATION OF THE Present Roman Catholick Faith c. SIR I Received your Letter wherein you desire I would give you satisfaction concerning the Visibility of the Protestant Religion and Church in the Ages before Luther In order thereunto I send you these Lines requesting you as you love and value the safety of your own Soul laying aside the blind belief of the Roman Infallibility which renders all Discoursing or Writing vain and unprofitable to read them seriously and impartially You begin thus I find your Divines asserting that the Church hath been hidden and invisible How Protestant Writers are to be understood when they argue against the perpetual Visibility of the Church To which I answer That the Church hath been for some time hidden i. e. obscured so that it was not conspicuous or easily discernable by all Christians much less Heathens is a truth so manifest that our Adversaries themselves grant it as I shall shew afterward That the Catholick Church was ever wholly rooted out by Heresie or Persecution or that in any Age all outward profession of the Truth though sometime more secret and private was wholly hidden and utterly invisible in the eyes of all men we affirm not Cardinal Bellarmine himself notes Multi ex nostris tempus terunt dum probant Ecclesiam non posse absolutè desicere nam Fleretici id concedunt De Eccles Militan lib. 3. cap. 13. that many of his Church have taken much needless pains in proving against us the perpetuity and indefectibility of the Church which as he confesses we never denied We only say that any particular Church even that of Rome may utterly fail But you add I find your Divines saying otherwise for Bishop Juel Apol. p. 7. writeth That Luther's preaching was the very first appearing of the Gospel And pag. 8. That Forty years and upward i. e. at the first setting forth of Luther and Zuinglius the truth was unknown and unheard of and that they came first to the knowledg and preaching of the Gospel Let Bishop Juel answer for himself Defence of the Apol. pag. 82. Ye say we confess our Church began only about Forty years since No Mr. Harding we confess it not and you your self well know we confess it not Our Doctrine is the Old and yours is the New. We say our Doctrine and the order of our Churches is older than yours by Five hundred years And he not only saith it but unanswerably proves it by the Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers Hence that Book is appointed to be had in all our Churches so great a respect have we for Primitive Antiquity and so far are we from imagining the Gospel or the Truth we profess to be no older than Luther or Zuinglius But Mr. White in his Defence of the Way to the Church Pag. 355 356. saith Popery was such a Leprosie spreading so universally over the Church that there was no visible Company of People appearing to the World viz. in the Ages next before Luther free from it True he saith so but he explains his meaning in the same place for he acknowledgeth the Churches of Greece Aethiopia Armenia to have been and still to be true visible Christian Churches yea that the Church of Rome is a part of the Visible Church of God wherein our Ancestors possessed the true Faith as to the Fundamental Articles necessary

us any thing De praescript c. 8. Arnobius Lib. 3. contra Gent. The first God is enough to us in him we worship all that is to be worshipped Lactantius agreeth with him Invocatio supponit omnipraesentiam lib. 6. p. 183. Instit lib. 2. cap. 16. 17. for he adviseth all men to look up and adore nothing worship nothing but the Majesty of God our Father and Maker Eusebius Caesar Demonstr lib. 1. c. 5. lib. 3. c. 3. sheweth that the Jewish Church directed their Adorations to God onely and for Christians he affirmeth lib. 4. c. 6. that they prayed to God onely in the name of Christ not of Saints or Angels as their Mediator For seeing saith he it is peculiar to Christ as the great High Priest to frame for us spiritual Sacrifices in praises and thanksgivings and because as a Priest he hath offered up himself a perfect Sacrifice to God for us V. Origen supra Psalm 20. Si cultus tantum dicatur non soli Deo debetur sed religio c. Aug. de Civit. Dei l. 10. c. 1. De Praep. lib. 12. c. 7. hence we say to him let him remember all thy sacrifice c. Here we see Propitiation is the ground of Intercession As for Angels he granteth to them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 honour according to the dignity of their excellent nature so do we but reserveth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all religious honour or worship to God only This is the very Doctrine of Protestants The due honour of Saints he explaineth thus We go to their Sepulchres 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to make Prayers not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ipsis to them as Trapezuntius falsly if not perfidiously translated it but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at them which is another thing But let us hear the testimony of Athanasius the truly Great who every where in his Orations against the Arians Orat. tertia in Arian proveth as the rest of the Fathers unanimously do Christ to be true God by this argument especially because he is prayed to V. Novatian de Trinit c. 14. Si homo tantummodo Christus cur in orationibus invocaeur c. Quomodo adest ubique invocatus cum haec hominis natura non sit sed Dei which were of no force if any Creature Saint or Angel might be in any sense invocated Particularly in his fourth Oration against the Arians from that Prayer of Saint Paul God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ direct our way unto you He inferreth Christ to be consubstantial with the Father For no man is a true Catholick which appeareth hereby a Papist is not would pray to receive any thing of God and Angels or any Creature Neither saith he hath any Christian as yet then Invocation of Saints or Angels was unknown and unpractised amongst all true Christians used this form of Prayer or words God and an Angel we may add Saint grant it you Laus Dec Virginique Mariae in fine Tom 2. 3. Bellarm. See Dr. Brevint's Saul and Samuel at Endor Whether Papists use not such forms of words in their Prayers is too notorious to be proved to any who are acquainted with their Books of Devotion Then taking notice of one of their chief Arguments now pressed by our new Roman Catholicks for proof of their Invocation of Angels to wit the words of dying Jacob The Angel that delivered me out of all my distresses bless the Lads Athanasius as the other Fathers unanimously expounds them not of any created Angel but of the Son of God who is God and the Angel of the Covenant whom Jacob saw face to face at Peniel and termeth God. So Euseb Hist lib. 1. cap. 2. Ambrose in Psalm 43. Novatian de Trinit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aug. Hi agnoscunt se esse creaturas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Athanas Orat. 3. in Arian He addeth David prayed to none for deliverance but to God To thee O Lord have I cryed c. and concludes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is evident the Patriarch Jacob joined none in his prayer to God but the Word whom he therefore calleth the Angel because he alone revealeth the Father Do not they then willingly abuse themselves and others who take Athanasius for a Roman Catholick or Invocation of Angels for an Article of the antient Catholick faith held by all sound Christians in all Ages or that the Angel appearing to the Old Patriarchs was a created Angel I will add his Contemporary Saint Hilary who altho he granteth which Protestants deny not that the Angels pray for the Church Militant here on Earth yet he no where alloweth Invocation of them but on Psalm 29 and 124. he adviseth all Christians to pray to God in regard he is Omnipresent in all places ready to help which is not true of Saints or Angels In like manner on Psalm 140. he saith In maledicto est religio creaturae Hil. de Trinit l. 8. p. 106. Magnificentiae Dei est orari It pertaineth to the magnificence or Prerogative of God to be prayed unto Hitherto the Coast is clear and we have the unanimous consent of the Fathers for about 340 years after Christ against Invocation of Saints Angels or any Creature Whence we undoubtedly conclude that it is tho a part of the present Roman yet not of the true antient and Catholick Faith believed semper ubique apud omnes always in all places by all sound Christians for such Doctrines as Vincentius Lyrinensis rightly notes are onely truly Catholick that is Universal as the name it self Catholick signifies To proceed Basil the Great Hom. 3. in Hexaemeron all Honour Worship 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is due to God onely In Psalm 7. he saith Our hope is to be placed in God onely In Psal 18. That if any man worship the Creature beside tho with the Creator he giveth not glory to God but the Creature and in Psalm 45. Instead of Saints and Angels he telleth us that in all our necessities God is our onely Refuge In his Funeral Oration on Gordius he acquainteth us with the true ends of those commendatory or commemoratory Solemnities observed on the Natalitia or Festivals of the Martyrs to wit to glorifie God and to stir up the people to imitation of their Virtues but no mention find we there of praying to them I am not ignorant that out of Basil Nazianzen Gregory Nyssen c. their Funeral Orations some Rhetorical Apostrophes to and Compellations of the Saints deceased are urged for Invocation of Saints by Bellarmine and others To which I answer First That in the most Primitive and antient Fathers we as we have seen find them not from the beginning it was not so Secondly That Rhetorical flourishes of Eloquence are no safe and sure grounds to build an Article of faith upon as Theodoret grants Non ego dogmatum regulam ea duco Dial. 3. quae in Ecclesia