the same yet that is not truly the Iesuites challendge but that you produce some which haue professed your religion in euery point in euery age before the daies of Luther This is the charge you haue vndertaken till you haue discharged your selfe of this your honor still remaines at the stake for all your bragges your safe way is to the Romanists all other of mature iudgment but onely a by-way serueth onely for a cowardly excuse of your want of abillitie to performe your promise But now to returne to the contents of this section in particular from which I haue in some sort digressed I say it consists onely in a recapitulation of those seuerall pointes of controuersie which I haue alreadie examined in confirmation of which since the author hath produced nothing which I haue not sufficiently confuted conuinced to be of no force but all eyther false equiuocall or impertinent it is most apparent that what soeuer he from hence collecteth by way of conclusion is noe conclusion nor of any more authority then his owne bare affirmations or negations consequently notobstanding the vaine knight will needes seeme to haue the victorie to haue gained his cause yet I make no doubt but that the prudent reader will rather iudge in fauour of the anserer then of the abiector especially considering how farre more easie a matter it is for any man to impugne the doctrine of another then to defend his owne Wherfore I ioyne issue with myne aduersaries opposing the doctrine of the Roman Church to those same positions of the pretended reformed Churches which the knight hath heere sett downe applying the same to the safe way by-way as he hath donne by-way of antithesis or oppositiue comparison betwixt them both in the manner followeing And firste I say The Romanists teach that not scripture onely but scripture with diuine Apostolicall traditions receaued for such by the vniuersall Church in all ages the approued generall Councells the infallible authority of the perpetually visible Church of God are the onely certaine meanes safe way to saluation But Sir Humfrey with his complices teach that scripture onely interpreted otherwise them by authoritie of the most vniuersallie florishing Church according to perpetual tradition of the Fathers doctors of the same is sufficient to saluation this is a doubtfull by way Secondly the Romanists teach that the scriptures are a most certaine a most safe perfect rule of faith yet in some places obscure ambiguous as euen some of their aduersaryes confesse therfore it is not sufficient alone but requires the authority of the true Church commended in the same scripture as an infallible interpreter this is a safe way to saluation but the Reformers teach that the scripture with the interpretation conference of one place with another by euerie priuate man or woman that can but reade it is a sure euident perfect rule of faith this is an vncertaine by-way Thirdly the Romanists teach that traditions appertayning to faith or manners receaued from Christe by his Apostles or from the Apostles themselues by inspiration of the holie Ghost as such conserued in the Church by continuall succession are to be imbraced reuerenced with like pious affection as the scriptures this is a safe way to saluation but the reformers teach that onelie those traditions concerning faith manners that can be proued by scriptures of which sort they denie anie to be in the Church notobstanding sainct Paul in the scripture expresselie commandeth the Thessalonians to hold his traditions deliuered vnto them by word of mouth or by epistle And this is an vncertaine by way Fourthly the Romanists teach that the vniforme consent of vndoubted Fathers is to be followed in the interpretation of scriptures some certaine persons in the Church as professors of diuinitie some others for the auoyding of noueltie in doctrine take an oath of the same moreouer that where they finde that consent they are to receaue it as a certaine rule for the true expounding of the scriptures without contradiction or inuention of other new sense or glosses this is a safe way to saluation but the reformers teach that the vniforme consent of vndoubted Fathers is to be followed onelie so farre as according to their priuate spirit or iudgment they agree with scriptures which is a captious deceitfull rule of expounding them And this is an vncertaine by-way Fiftly the Romanists teach that the Christian Catholike Church is a congregation or companie of people beleiuing professing the true faith of Christe vnder one cheife head our Sauiour Iesus Christe his vicar in earth the Pope or Bishop of Rome as cheife Pastor visible gouernour of the same vnder Christe sayeing with all that the notes whereby the true Church is knowne from all other hereticall scismaticall conuenticles are not onelie cheiflie exteriour splendour amplitude miracles as our aduersarie doth deceitfullie insinuate but principallie the name Catholike antiquitie continuall succession c. And this is a certaine safe way but the reformers teach the Church is a Congregation of pastours people with out anie certaine infallible authoritie assigning for markes of the same that which is common to all congregations euen of heretikes schismatikes according to their seuerall opinions as all euerie one of them holding they haue the true word Sacraments rightlie preached administred in their conuenticles which consequently can be no certaine markes of the true Church in particular no more then the name of a Christian in generall can be an infallible note of a true beleiuer this is an vncertaine by-way Sixtly the Romanists teach that General Councells by the Popes authoritie or approbation conuocated confirmed are not onelie of great vse in the Church But also of certaine infallible power for the determination of all doubts controuersies in religion which may arise in seuerall times occasions this is a certaine safe way But the Reformers teach that General Councells althou ' they say they be of great vse authority in the Church to determine controuersies in religion yet they hold them of vncertaine authoritie subiect to errour both in faith manners this is an vncertaine by-way Seauenthly the Romanists teach that the cheife rock angular stone vpon which the Church is built is Christe the Sauiour of the world yet they say with Christe himselfe that Peter is also in his kinde a rock vpon which he promised to build his Church this is a certaine safe way But the reformers teach that Christe alone is the onelie rock vpon which he built his Church which is repugnant to the expresse wordes of Christe in the scripture sayeing to Peter vpon this rocke will I build my Church this is a diuerticle or by-way Eightly the Romanists teach that the
the whole miserere Psalme and crying out with an amplius laua for a perpetuall testimony of the same And now supposing as I say all this the doctrine practice of Indulgēces now vsed by the cheefe Pastours of the Roman Church is so well groūded that except onely in those in whom obstinacie reigneth more then reason it admitteth no trergiuersation in the credibilitie and faith of it For as God is infinitly not onely iust but also mercifull in himselfe by essēce so hath he cōmunicated to the gouernours of his church a kind of participatiue mixture of both those attributes betweene which according to that of the psalme iustitia pax osculatae sunt he hath made a most louing league to the end that according to diuers causes and occasions his spirituall officers may so vse them in earth as the vse may be approued in Heauen sometimes vsing rigour of discipline for the satisfaction of Gods iustice other times lenity for the exercise of his mercy But now touching the confirmation of this doctrine by the authority of Fathers I will onely produce the testimonies of Tertull. and S. Cyprian who being both so ancient as they are knowne to be they may iustely serue for sufficient witnesses of the ancient practice of the same in those primatiue times Tertullian therefore in his booke to the Martirs and first chapter speaketh of the remission of the paine due to sinnes which the Bishops gaue vnto the sinners either at the petition of martyrs or for other causes calling it by the name of peace Which peace faith he some that haue it not in the Church are accustomed to aske it of the martyrs in prision and therefore you also meaning the Bishops ought for that cause to haue norish and keepe it in your selues to the end that if perhaps you may communicate it to others where Tertullian by the worde peace vnderstandes the Bishops absolution at the least frome some parte of the sinners pennance by application of the superabundant satisfactions of the martyrs which application is also in the worde peace included as manifestly may be gathered out of the same Tertullian who afterwardes falling in to heresie in his 22. chap. of his booke of chastitie recalled that which he had tought before to wit that indult could not be giuen to those that had fallen at the petition of the martyrs because saith he now turned Heretike there remaine no satisfactions of martyrs which satisfactions hee calleth oleum faculae which can suffice for themselues others All which as the reader may clearelie perceiue is nothing els in substance but such an Indulgence as is now practiced by the Bishops of Rome of whome and others by their comission the foresayd authour doth speake in the place rehearsed And the same saith S. Cyprian in his last Sermon de lapsis saith paenitenti operanti roganti potest clementer ignoscere potest in acceptum referre quicquid pro talibus petierint martyres fecerint Sacerdotes To the working or laboring penitent the Bishop of whome he speaketh as I suppose may clemently pardon accept as receiued whatsoeuer the martyrs demaunde the Preists doe or performe And the like the same S. Cyp. hath l. 3. epist 15. or 11. I omit Sainct Gregorie whome yet both S. Thom. and Atisiodorus his predecessour testifie to haue graunted Indulgences in forme which altho' it is not founde in his workes now extant yet it is farre more credible and certaine that those two authours would not haue vsed that testimonie with out infalible grounde that it was S. Gregories then that it was feigned because kemnitius and other nouellists reiect it as suppositious And if they will not admit of this testimonie because they see it not At the least they must of necessitie admit of that which being yet more auncient is to be seeme in the Chappell of S. Crosse of Hierusalem in Rome written in legible letters that S. Siluester who was Bishop Pope aboue 1200. years paste did consecrate that Chappell and adorne it with maine reliquies of saints and indulted diuers perdons to the visiters of it I could alsoe cite the Popes which since the time of S. Greg. in seuerall ages haue very frequentlie graunted Indulgences but because I knowe our presumptuous aduersaries contemne their authority tho' iniustlie for that they haue ben of as great authoritie as their anticessours I will saue the labour and onely aduertice the reader that ther is farre greater reason for a prudent man to giue credit vnto them in the affirmatiue of this question then there is to rely vpon the authoritie of the sectaries for the negation in regard that euen by their owne confession the affirmatiue hath ben tought and practiced publikelie in the Christian world at the least for the space of 400. years euen according to Kemnitius who tho' most falsely for that it may be proued That Leo the third who liued in the 8. or 9. hundreth yeare gaue pardons according to the manner of those our times affirmeth that Indulgences began aboute the yeare 1200. who neuertelesse on the contrary contradicting himselfe graunteth that the first denyers of the same were the Waldenses a company of pore ignorant beggarlie fellowes From whence we may inferre how impudentlie the kinght affirmeth antiquitie vniuersalitie in his owne Church for the denyall of Indulgences yet dinying the same in the Church of Rome for her defence of them supposing he could not produce as much as one authour either more or lesse auncient for the negatiue parte liuing before the pore men of lions who hauing no other saint for their founder then one waldo a verie idiot appeared aboute the yeare of our Lord 1170. that is manie hundreths of yeares after Indulgences had beene practized in the Christian world euen according to the forme now vsed It is true Sir Humfrey alledgeth diuers Roman diuines as he vseth to doe but it is but a meere shift he vseth to colour his position as being destitute of all other auncient authoritie proofe For I haue examined those authours I finde there is not one of them which is not a zelous defender both of the power which Christ gaue vnto the Church to graunt Indulgences also of the lawfullnes profit of them nor doth anie one of them confesse the want of antiquitie consent of the same but some of them onelie confesse indeed there is no certainetie of their beginning or when the vse of them came into the Church in the manner they are now vsed To which purpose the testimonie cited out of B. Fisher may seeme to serue who yet doth not say as the knight falselie relates that it is not sufficientlie manifest from whome Indulgences had their Originall but he onelie sayth non certo constare a quo primum tradi caeperunt that it is not certainelie apparent who first began to giue them And altho' that author hath the rest of the wordes which Sir Humfrey
the illumination of the true leight vnderstand in contemplation of him so much as appertaines eyther to their owne ioye or our assistanse For as to the Angels so to the Saints who assiste in the Seight of God our petitions are knowne in the eternall worde In abscondito facie Dei By which it is euident that Lombard speakes onelie of the meanes by which the Saints vnderstand the prayers of faithfull supplicants And there being two seuerall wayes cheefelie where by the Saints may vnderstand our prayers the one by vertue of their beatitude or beatificall vision by which they see the prayers directed vnto them by seeing God the other by special reuelation accidental to their blessednesse The Master is of opinion they see them in the worde by vertue of their vision of God as I conceiue But Scotus seemes to hould that the knowlege that Saints haue of our prayers doeth not necessarilie followe of their beatitude but is onelie accidental by congruitie therefore he sayes in his anser to the question Dico quod nrn est necesse ex ratione beatitudinis quod beatus videat orationes nostras Neque regulariter siue vniuersaliter in verbo quia non est necessaria fequela beatitudinis neque quod reuelentur neque talis reuelatio necessario sequitur beatitudintm Beatitudo enim in obiectis creatis non transcendit quiditates seu illa quorum essentia visa est necessaria ratio videndi tamen quia congruum est beatum esse coadiutorem Dei in procurando salutem electi eo modo quo hoc sibi potest competere ad istud requiritur sibi reuelari orationes nostras specialiter quae sibi offeruntur quia illa specialiter innituntur meritis eius tanquam mediatoris perducentis ad salutem quae petitur ideo probabile est quod Deus beatis reuelat de orationibus sibi vel Deo in nomine eius oblatis That is in English It is not necessarie by the nature or state of beatitude that the blessed see our prayers neyther regularlie or vniuersallie in the diuine worde because that is not anie thing which as is it were a necessary sequele of beatitude Nor that they ar reueiled because neither such a reuelation necessarilie followes bertitude for the beatitude of the vnderstanding in created obiects transcendes not the quidities or those things the sight of whose essense is the necessarie cause of seeing But because it is congruous or conuenient that the blessed man be Gods cooperator in procuring the Saluation of the elect in that manner in which it grees vnto him and that to this is required that our prayers be reueiled vnto him especiallie those which are represented vnto him for that they especiallie are founded in his merits as a mediator conducting to the saluation which is asked Therefore it is probable that God giues a reuelation to the blessed of the prayers offered to him or to God in his name Thus Scotus By which it is manifest he onelie here discusses the diuers wayes by which according to the diuersitie of opinions in diuinitie the blessed Saints in Heauen vnderstandes the prayers of vs that liue in this world houlding for probable that the knowlege which they haue of our supplications vnto them is not by any other meanes but by reuelation from God And in this sense he speakes when he saith probabile est it is probable not because he held the inuocation of Saints it in selfe as a matter onelie probable this being quite contrarie to his cited wordes as being aboute the manner of the saints vnderstanding our prayers which necessarily implyes that the prayers them selues directed vnto them are lawfully made And so now it clearelie appeares by all these wordes circumstances that these two famous diuine are as ranck Romanists as the rest in this particular in regarde they call not in question the lawfulnes of prayer to Saints in it selfe but onelie the condition or qualitie of it And this I haue added of the doctrine of Scotus not as vsed or abused by my aduersarie but onely the better to declare the true meaning of the Master of sentence And as for Caietan whome also Sir Humfrey produceth to the same purpose it is manifest euen out of the wordes cited by him that he onely speaketh of some want of certaintie in the miracles which the Church vseth as an argument in the Canonization of saints by reason that altho' as he confesseth expressely they be most authenticall yet are they not saith he omnino certa altogether certaine because the credit thereof depends vpon the reportes of men But for all this neither doth he affirme absolutelie that miracles are the grounde wherein the Church foundes the Canonization of the saints as Sir Humfrey affirmeth most corruptelie translatinng his wordes omitting those Quae maxime authentica sunt for ab Ecclesia suscipiuntur putting in Inglish wheron the Church grounteth the Canonization and detorting them to that sense as the reader may clearly perceiue by conferring the translation with the quotation in Latin nor yet doth the same Caietan either in this or anie other place of his wordes deny either the certaintie of the doctrine of the inuocation it selfe or yet the doctrine of the certaintie of the Canonization but he onely at the most sayth that the Church cannot receiue full but onely humane certainty from such miracles alone as she hath by relation of particular men not euidentlie operated in the eyes of the whole Church And according to this we may easily answere to the saying of S. Augustin that manie soules are tormented in hell whose bodies are honored in earth for this S. Augustin speakes onelie of certaine suppositious saints whome the cōmon people honored for true saints as it is manifest by the example which the same S. Aug. produceth out of Sulpitius who relateth how the vulgaritie did long celebrate one for a martyr who afterwardes appeared tould them he was damned And the like is related of a discouerie which S. Martin made of a false martyr which particular examples of errour in the common people ought not in common prudence to preiudicate the certaintie of the doctrine of honour due vnto such as the whole Church in all succeeding ages hath honored for true saints blessed freinds of God Neither doth S. Augustin in the cited place speake to anie such purpose of calling in question the generall doctrine practice of the Church in the points of honour or inuocation of Saints as may appeare by that in other places of his workes he expresselie auerreth the same as in his first sermon of S. Peter Paule in his 44. ep where he hath thes notable wordes In Petro quis honoratur nisi ille qui defunctus est pro nobis Who is honored in Peter but he that dyed for vs And in his 84. treatise vpon the gospell of S. Iohn he sayth At the table we doe not so remember martirs
you in some points of faith so in like manner might we deduce a proofe of the greater saftie of our way from the certaintie of those points of faith in which you agree with vs all which is but nugatorie friuolous absurd in regarde that as a parte ad totum from a parte to the whole no lawfull deduction can be made so neyther can it be inferred that because one parte of the obiect of a mans faith is true therefore the whole obiect of is faith is true by reason that notobstanding one parte of the obiect be true yet there may be in the whole obiect or matter trueth falsitie mixed together of which we haue instāces both in diuine humane matters And more then this Sir Humfrey must giue vs licence to tell him that he was to forward in the proofe of his tenet For before he went aboute to proue his way to be safer then ours he ought first to haue conuinced his owne way to be a true perfect way not to haue giuen his reader a parte for the whole by a false Senecdoche or contrarie to the Grammer rules to obtrude vpon him a comparatiue without a positiue that is a safer way were no way is to be found at all or at the least no safe intyre way And yet more ouer it is to be obserued that besides those positiue points of doctrine in which he sayth that both partes agree there be also diuers negatiues which they quite distinguish one from an other which negatiues neuerthelesse are parte of the reformers faith as well as their positiue doctrine so in this parte of their Creed they stand single as well as we consequentlie if standing single as he auerreth or at the least supposeth doth hinder the safetie of our way the same effect it must of necessitie haue in theirs according to this ground of Sir Humfreys it is manifest that the reformers can neuer haue the safer way till we ioyne with them in euerie point thereof by that meanes to hinder their single standing which yet we assure our selues will neuer come to passe except God almightie reduce them to vs from whome they once departed as we greatlie desire daylie praye And according to this wee may breeflie ansere to all the rest of the instances which the knight produceth And so we Romanists confesse we stand with the reformers in the affirmation of heauen hell but we stand not with them in the deniall of Purgatorie limbus We stand with them in the affirmation of the merits and satisfactions of Iesus Christ But we stand not with them in the negation of the merits satisfactions of those that liue in the grace of God by the virtue of the same the cooperation of their owne free will performe good workes of charitie mercie iustice the like houlding for certaine with S. Augustin that he who created vs without vs will not saue vs without vs yet further assuring our selues that God doth not operate with bests men both in one manner We stand with them in the defence of Baptisme Eucharist so farre as they Orthodoxlie maintainte them but we stand not with them in the impugnation of the other fiue Sacraments We stand with them in that they affirme that the images of Christ his Saints are ornaments memorialls of the absent but we stand not with them in their denyall of due honour to be exhibited vnto them for the great loue reuerence we beare to Christ his Saints We stand with them in the defence of the diuine worship of God but we stand not with them in the denyall of intercessiue inuocation honour of his Saints We stand with them in that Christ is the prime mediator betwixt God man but we stand not with thē in their denyall of the secondarie mediators or intercessors which are his seruants frends We stand with them in that Christ is head Monarch of the whole Church triumphant militant but we stand not with them in their denyall of the visible Vicarious head the Pope or cheefe pastour of the visible Church in earth subordinate subiet to Christ in the gouernement of the same We will not refuse to stand with them in that they graunt that S. Peter had a Primacie of Order but we stand not with then in that they denie his Primacie of power Iurisdiction We stand with them in that they teach there are 22. bookes of Canonicall scripture but we stand not with them in the refusall of the booke of Tobie Iudith two first bookes of Machabees the booke of wisdome Esdras Baruch the Prophet We stand with thē in that they affirme the scripture is the rule of faith But we stand not with them in their denyall of diuine traditiōs not properly added to the scriptures but commended by them included in them in a general manner We stand with them in that they say there are twelue articles of the Creed But we stand not with them in their denyall of the rest of the doctrine defined in generall Councells as neither doe we ioyne with them in the defence of all the 39. Articles of the English faith or Creed And so now by these particulars the iudicious reader may euidentlie perceiue that by reason the Romanists agree with the knight onelie in some parte or partiall of his doctrine he could not possible proue by their confessions the greater safetie of his way as both in the title of this his last section also in the title of his whole booke he did propose Nay he is so farre from the proofe of this that he hath most apparentlie fayled in the proofe of the verie argument of his whole worke which to the end it may more plainelie appeare I will reduce to this Sylogisme That faith is the safe way leading all Christians to the true ancient Catholike faith which is proued by the confessions testimonies of the best learned Romanists to haue ben visible in all ages especiallie before the dayes of Luther But the faith now professed in the Church of England is proued by the confessions testimonies of the best learned Romanists to haue ben visible in all ages especiallie before the dayes of Luther Therefore the faith now professed in the Church of England is the safe way leading all Christians to the true ancient Catholike faith Now there being contained in the minor of this Sylogisme the whole argument purpose drift of Sir Humfreys whole booke yet neuerthelesse it hauing ben by mee in this my censure demonstrated not to haue ben proued and made good by anie argument by him produced all he produceth to that purpose being voyde of force as by the discussion of the particulars of euerie section the reader may easilie vnderstand it followeth by a necessarie sequele that his way can not be safe but is to be auoyded with most great care circumspection
is but onelie one in which it can be sayd with anie coulourable probabilitie that sainct Gregorie in anie of the places heere cited doth contradict the doctrine of the Roman Church that is the point of the Canon of the scriptures in which patricular althou ' he refused to giue the bookes of Machabees the title of Canonicall scripture as yet S. Augustine others did before him the rest of the writers for the most parte euer since haue donne whether it were because he ment onelie they were not contained in the Canon of the Iewes or for that the whole Church had not then declared them for Canonicall vnder that name Neuerthelesse he is not to be iudged more repugnant to the doctrine of the present Roman Church in that point then those who notobstanding that in the primitiue Church certaine bookes of the new Testament as the epistle to the Hebrewes others were doubted of yet now with infallible certaintie faith receaue them for diuine sacred scripture althou ' they were not accounted beleiued for such by all the orthodoxall Fathers of the Church in all former ages since the time of the Apostles who firste published them to the world Especiallie considering that the same sainct Gregorie neuer denyed neyther in the place cited nor in anie other of his workes but that as the declaration of the Church was sufficient to assure all faithfull people that those bookes of which before his dayes there had binne doubt were then trulie Canonicall scripture thou ' not knowne for such in euerie age before him so might the same succeeding Church in later times determine the like of those bookes which in his time so generallie vndoubtedlie were not as yet held for such Neyther according to the rules of diuinitie can that man be reputed not to be of the same religion of which another is because he now beleaueth some thing more in the materiall obiect of faith then the other did in that time in which he liued but at the most it can onelie be truelie verified that he hath the same habit of faith thou ' some what more extended in the obiect as neyther the Apostles were of a diuerse faith when they were firste instructed by Christe before his passion from that they had after his resurrection when yet doubtlesse they receaued more expresse extensiue knowledge in matters of faith then before they had receiued And sure I am S. Gregorie without exception cites both the booke of Tobie Ecclesiasticus sapience most frequentlie none of which bookes neuerthelesse the misreformers admit for the worde of God And till Sir Humfrey or some of his associates can produce out of S. Augustin S. Gregorie as plaine pregnant places either for his owne tenets or against the Roman doctrine as the Romanists haue long since produced for theirs as their workes vpon euerie seuerall controuersie make apparent let them for shame neuer claime them for theirs in anie one point of controuersie for notobstanding they make a plausible vse of some fewe patches of their more ambiguous ill construed ill related sentences yet turne but the iudicious vnpartiall reader to the bookes them selues he will ingenuouslie confesse absolutelie crye a loud all is ours And if it would please his maiestie of his royall clemencie to suffer vs freelie to make tryall of our cause by scripture Fathers I knowe which side would be founde minus habens manie graines to light But it is our great miserie yet in one sense our great happines to be so crossed curbed with seueritie of tēporal lawes that we cannot be safe in the most priuate corners much lesse can we appeare in any publike assemblie for defense of our Religion Vid. Bell. in quatuor Cōtr. tom valēt Anales fid But yet supposing that S. Gregorie had binne contrarie in that particular of the bookes of Machabies for touching the rest mentioned by the knight he is sufficientlie cleered from that imputation by Bellarmine other Romanists yet could it not possiblie proue that monstrous great proposition of our aduersarie to wit that S. Gregorie in his vndoubted writings directlie opposeth the Romish faith in the maine pointes thereof consequentlie from hence it manifestlie appeereth how farre Sir Humfrey hath walked by the way when in the end of his eleauenth section he auouched his reader should plainlie discerne how the later Popes Bishops doe differ from the former how these two Fathers of the Church meaning sainct Augustine sainct Gregorie concurre expresselie with the doctrine professed in the reformed Churches different from the Roman it being most apparent by the premisses that by anie thing which he hath heere produced out of the foresayd Fathers he hath neyther proued anie one point of his owne religiō nor disproued ours but hath onelie prestigiouslie deluded the eyes of the reader with a coulorable florish yet in realitie remaineth still in the same byway in which he hath hitherto walked separate from the royall street of the ancient Doctors of the primitiue Church Sec. 14. The next section being the fourteenth is that the ingenuous Romanists confesse that the Councells which they oppose against the Reformers were neyther called by lawfull authoritie nor to the right ends Heere I finde that to be most true which a pleasant Protestant pronounceth of the Puritans sayeing their religion willinglie admitts no founder but Bragger they flourished much about a time And in sober sadnes the best Sir Humfrey can make of his aduersaries confession throu ' out his whole worke in fauour of his doctrine doth nothing more then plainlie conuince him to be of no other progenie Neyther doe their confessions fit his purpose anie better then if he should put his shooes vpon his handes or his hose vpon his head A patterne of this you may see in this verie section in which how soeuer he vaunteth of the confession of his aduersaries that by two principall conditions as he sayth ancientlie in vse for the authoritie of Councells are both acknowledged to be abrogated by later Councells to wit because quoth the knight now a dayes the Pope calls Councells without right he his assemble them in their owne name for their owne ends for proofe of which calumnious position he cites but onely two authors those scarce held for sound mettle among the Romanists neyther yet doth eyther of them plainlie auerre his position as it is vttered by him but they onelie speake by way of reprehension of such abuses as might be practised in that nature by the malice of men without taxing the Pope or anie other in particular as the knight would maliciouslie inferre out of their wordes for the confirmation of the sinister opinion he hath of the Church of Rome her head in earth The rest which he hath in this section is but eyther his owne bare assertions those not true as that from