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A52421 A discourse concerning the pretended religious assembling in private conventicles wherein the unlawfullness and unreasonableness of it is fully evinced by several arguments / by John Norris ... Norris, John, 1657-1711. 1685 (1685) Wing N1251; ESTC R17164 128,825 319

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Superstition and Idolatry avert them from our Church and make them sit down in the scorners chair Doth not this say in effect that all those good laws formerly made against Papists and all penalties and mulcts by virtue thereof inflicted were most unjust in punishing them for refusing to join with us in that form of worship which we our selves cannot approve of We may say with the Athenians Auximus Philippum nos ipsi Athenienses We have strengthned the hands of our Enemies against us by our own divisions and contentions It is an odious quality and that which obscures the lustre of all the commendable vertues which Franzius notes of the Cranes that oftentimes they are so vehemently enraged one with an other and maintain such a combate among themselves that they neither observe nor fear the coming of the Fowler Yea that they rather desire his approach and to be taken by him than to be reconciled to their mates with whom they are faln out It is a thing much to be feared that these men will never be at quiet and peace in the Church untill they make that true of themselves which I have read objected to the aforesaid people of Athens by way of reproach that they would never vouchsafe to treat or hear of peace but in mourning gowns namely after the loss of their friends and fortunes in the wars He hath no mind that considers not this nor heart that condoles it not Put the case that though the Liturgy of our Church was composed with so much piety and prudence yet there might remain any thing capable of amendment as a freckle in a fair Face what if it be not in all things suitable with every man's judgment or fancy as there is nothing in the world the Directory it self not excepted so well done that doth not displease some the best cook'd dishes please not every Palate yet as St. Augustine of old answered the Donatists Si peccavit Caecilianus non ideo haereditatem suam perdidit Christus Shall God therefore loose his publick worship and service shall it be trampled upon slighted and prophanely neglected because we differ about black and white as Bishop Ridley told Bishop Hooper in a Letter to him And though in these latter days preaching hath gotten ground of the Prayers of the Church in the opinion of some whom we shall see present now and then at the former but seldom or never at the latter yet withou● any detraction to that excellent ordinance of God be it spoken this most despised part of God's worship must needs be granted to have the preheminence of the other especially in these days wherein the Church is so maturely composed and throughly setled in the faith and the Book of the holy Scriptures so complete and common amongst us in our own Language by him that considers 1. First that it is the most proper and immediate worship of God and preaching but mediate as it is the means which God hath ordained to teach men how to pray and to fit them for that duty For how can they call upon him in whom they have not believed And how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard and how shall they hear without a preacher 2. Secondly it is a duty simply and entirely moral good in respect of its own nature and quality before any external constitution passed upon it and may be resolved into one of the dictates and principles of the Law of Nature imprinted universally in the hearts of all men at the creation For before the Law of the ten Commandments men began to call on the name of the Lord as being taught by the light of Nature that in God we all live move and have our being and that he is the Father of lights from whom cometh down every good and perfect gift But preaching and hearing are acknowledged by all to be instituted worship and moral onely by an external imposition and mandate of the Supreme Lawgiver 3. Thirdly it is a duty of longer duration than preaching the one being onely for this life the other for the life to come also the one proper and peculiar to men as members of the Church militant the other common to men and Angels in the Church triumphant The knowledge is small which we have on Earth concerning things done in Heaven notwithstandings thus much we know even of Saints in Heaven that they pray 4. Fourthly it is a duty of larger extent and benefit than Preaching is this onely profiteth those that be present that do hear it and attend upon it but Prayer is available even for those that are far distant yea though they be in the remotest parts of the world When Lot's preaching did no good at all to his hearers yet Abraham's prayers might have been so effectual as to have saved five wicked Cities if there had been but ten righteous persons in them What our Blessed Saviour's judgment was in this case we may easily gather by that place in the Gospel where he calls the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an house of Prayer not of Preaching Whence in the Primitive times all the Christian Temples were called and known by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Oratories And publick Prayers of the Church have as much the preheminence of private as the duty it self hath of preaching in ●egard there is more force in these Prayers wherein the whole Church joyn together as one man than there can be in those that others though never so many make apart any where else I say unto you saith our Saviour that if two of you shall agree on Earth touching any thing that they shall ask it shall be done for them of my Father which is in Heaven Much more then if a Thousand and more if the whole Church They are two excellent and remarkable sayings of St. Chrysostome to this purpose which are quoted by Bishop Iewel in his reply to Harding's answer Non aeque exoras cum solus dominum obsecras atq●e cum fratribus tuis Est enim in hoc plus aliquid videlicet concordia conspiratio copula amoris charitatis sacerdotum clamores Praesunt enim ob eam rem sacerdotes ut populi orationes quae infirmiores per se sunt validiores eas complexae simul in c●elum evehantur Thou dost not so soon obtain thy desire when thou prayest alone unto the Lord as when thou prayest with thy Brethren for herein is somewhat more the concord the consent the joyning of love and charity and the cry of the Priest For to that end the Priests are made overseers that they being the stronger sort may take with them the weaker Prayers of the People and carry them up into Heaven Again he saith Quod quis apud seipsum precatus accipere non poterit hoc cum multitudine precatus accipiet Quare Quia etiamsi non propria virtus tamen concordia multum
God offendeth against the Common order of the Church hurteth the Authority of the Magistrate and woundeth the Conscience of the weak Brethren Where by traditions I suppose is meant the Laws and Canons of the Church as the words following do intimate which speak of the Common order of the Church and Authority of the Magistrate Thus much of the Laws of the Church Neither are such meetings onely against the Laws of the Church but against sundry statute Laws of the Kingdom also in that behalf made and provided In the Statute of 35 Eliz. 1. It is provided that if any person or persons above 16 years old shall refuse to repair to some Church Chapel or usual place of Common-prayer to hear divine Service and receive the Communion or come to and be present at any Assemblies Conventicles or Meetings under Colour or pretence of any Exercise of Religion contrary to the Laws and Statutes And if any person shall obstinately refuse to repair to some Church Chapel or usual place of Common-prayer or by any motion persuasion inticement or allurement of any other willingly joyn in or be present at any such Assemblies Conventicles or Meetings under Colour or pretence of any such Exercise of Religion contrary to the Laws and Statutes of this Realm as is aforesaid which refers to other Statutes formerly made and yet of force against Conventicles as well as this one shall be committed to prison and there remain without bail untill be conform and untill he make an open Submission in the words set down in the Statute viz. I. A. B. do humbly acknowledge and confess that I have grievously offended God in contemning her Majesties Godly and lawfull Government and Authority by absenting my self from Church and from hearing divine Service contrary to the godly Laws and Statutes of this Realm and in using and frequenting unlawfull and disorderly Conventicles and Assemblies under Colour and pretence of Exercise of Religion And I am heartily sorry for the same c. And I do promise and protest without any dissimulation that from henceforth I will from time to time obey and perform her Majesties Laws and Statutes in repairing to Church and hearing divine Service and doe my utmost endeavour to maintain and defend the same Neither can it be pretended as it is by some that this Statute was made or stands in force against any other sort of People than those in question viz. against Popish recusants onely and not against Protestant dissenters as they call themselves The answer is easie out of the words of the said Statute For in the beginning of the Statute the Persons that are concerned in obedience to it are expressed in these general and large words Any person or persons whatsoever above the Age of 16 which shall refuse to repair to Church and willingly join in and be present at any Conventicle or Meeting c. Which words comprehend and take in Persons of all Religions Sects and Persuasions whatsoever And whereas the penalty of the Statute to all that shall refuse Obedience and Conformity to it is abjuration of the Realm or to be proceeded against as Felons There is a Proviso toward the End of the Statute that sixeth the penalty altogether upon Protestant recusants and not on Popish In these words Provided that no Popish recusant or feme Covert shall be compelled or bound to abjure by virtue of this Act. And lest the Popish recusants should be the onely Persons therein meant or intended the Conventiclers of our Age make themselves more perfect Recusants than that Statute supposeth For whereas that makes absence from the Prayers of the Church for one Month together a Crime sufficient to render them obnoxious to the penalties of that Act these men for the most part withdraw themselves for many Years together and for ought I see if they are let alone resolve so to doe all the days of their lives In Anno 22. Caroli 2di Regis there was a Statute made to prevent and suppress seditious Conventicles as the Title of that Statute truly calls them wherein Every Person of the Age of 16 years and upward that shall be present at any Assembly Conventicle or Meeting under Colour or pretence of any Exercise of Religion in other manner that according to the Liturgy and Practice of the Church of England in any place within the Kingdom of England Dominion of Wales and Town of Berwick upon Tweed at which Conventicle or meeting there shall be 5 persons or more assembled together is made liable to suffer the penalties of 5 s for his first fault and for his second 10 s and so onward the Preacher to suffer the penalty of 20 ll And the owner of the house or ground that shall wittingly and willingly suffer such Conventicle Meeting or unlawfull Assembly to be held to suffer the penalty of 20 ll In the late Act for Uniformity all Non-conformist Ministers and disabled and prohibited from preaching any Sermon or Lecture indefinitely either publick or private And for as much as the King's Majesty by the Law of God and the Land of right is and ought to be master of all the assemblings together of any of his Subjects therefore what Meetings soever are not allowed and authorized by the Laws of the Realm are adjudged by the Learned in the Laws to fall within the compass of those Statutes that forbid and punish Riots and unlawfull Assemblies and are or may justly be presumed to be in terrorem populi and in the Event it is to be feared will prove to be contrary to the peace of our Sovereign Lord the King And by the Law all the King's Liege-people are commanded to assist in the suppressing of them upon pain of imprisonment and to make fine and ransome to the King Notwithstanding all which good Laws this practice hath continued in the Church these several years and still doth notwithstanding His Majesties reinforcement of their execution by his late Proclamation in open defiance and contempt of all Authority as if the Laws of the Church and Realm were but fulmen inane a shadow of a Cloud that vanisheth as soon as it is made and as if obedience to Magistracy were no part of Christian duty Concerning these Laws of the Realm to silence clamour I will touch lightly at five things I. That the King being next under God within his Dominions supreme in the Church on Earth hath Power and Authority over the Persons of Ministers as well as of any other his Subjects He being Custos utriusque tabulae having both tables committed to him as well the first that concerns our religious duties to God as the other that concerns our civil duties to men may and ought to make such laws as conduce as well to the peace and order in the Church as as godliness and honesty Pertinet hoc ad reges seculi Christianos ut temporibus suis pacatam velint matrem suam Ecclesiam unde
sometimes through so great a resort of People to him that neither the Synagogue nor Temple could hold them he was fain to take a Mountain for his Pulpit Sometimes being not able to stand quiet for the throng of People that crouded him he retreated to a Ship that he might be the better heard and taught the People from thence Yet all this was publickly and openly to the World As for Religious discourse with his Disciples or others in private Houses either by way of explanation or repetition of his publick Sermons that we deny not but he often used it For we reade that when he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alone they that were about him with the twelve asked him of the Parable But as for substance of Doctrine it was allways publick He never spake privately to his Disciples or others but they were the same things which he Preach'd publickly He spake not other things to them in private than what he spake publickly but in another manner And therefore even to that exposition of his Doctrine which he made privately to his Disciples he adds Is a Candle brought to be put under a bushel or under a bed And not to be set on a Candlestick For there is nothing hid that shall not be manifested q. d. these Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven are therefore revealed unto you not that ye should Preach them in Corners but to the whole World As for that place of St. Mark which seems to speak of Christ's Preaching in a private House though it be craftily urged on ignorant People yet if rightly understood it cannot make ought against what hath been said For I demand was it a truth our Saviour Christ said I always taught in the Synagogues and in the Temple and in private I have said nothing or was it not To say the latter were no less than blasphemy and to give him the lye who is the God of truth who knew no sin neither was guile ever found in his mouth If it was a truth as it must needs without monstrous impiety be acknowledged to be then he ever taught in the Synagogues and in the Temple and in private he said nothing The occasion of it was his being called in question for his Doctrine his answer to which plainly declares that as for substantials of Evangelical Doctrines he ever taught them openly to the World in the Jewish Synagogues and Temple Otherwise it would have been absurd for our Saviour to have said as he did to Pilate why askest thou me of my Doctrine ask them that heard me Behold they know what I have said For Pilate could not ask the Iews that were then present of any thing that he had said in private seeing they were none of his private Companions or Followers If therefore there be any seeming Antilogy in any other Scripture it is not so in reality but appearance it may seem so to our weakness but it is not so in it self For the Holy Ghost who is the spirit of truth in one place is so throughout all the Scripture without any real contradiction to it self any where Therefore to that place of St. Mark I have two things to answer First our English translation in that phrase he preached the word unto them doth not properly nor genuinely answer the Original Greek which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he spake to them or as Beza renders it loquebatur eis sermonem he made a speech to them And Tremelius loquebatur cum eis sermonem he talked or discoursed with them Doubtless about Gospel-truths and Heavenly matters When ever our Saviour Christ preach'd or spake Sermon-wise the Scripture useth other words to express it by as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to teach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to preach or publish as an Herauld in open place in the hearing of a multitude or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to preach the Gospel But as for the word here used by the Holy Ghost 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is never used in Scripture properly and strictly to signifie to preach but to speak talk or discourse which differs much from preaching For though it be true that whosoever preacheth speaketh yet it is not true that whosoever speaketh preacheth In all Languages there have ever been held a difference betwixt speaking and preaching Solius sacerdotis est praedicare loqui autem communis vulgi Yea it is observed by the most skillfull in that Language that this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 amongst Greek Authours is still used for the worst kind of speaking or talking But in the New Testament indeed it is used in a better sense but never properly and strictly for to preach but to speak as we do in common talk or discourse When the Devil speaketh a Lye he speaketh it of his own Joh. 8. 44. When I was a Child I spake as a Child 1 Cor. 13. 11. Speak the truth every man to his neighbour Eph. 4. 25. And in many other places we have the same word used which were most absurd to render by the word preach So that all that can be rationally or certainly gathered from that saying of St. Mark is no more but this That our Saviour Christ seeing such a multitude of people flock about him took an occasion to fall into a religious discourse with them and to talk with them of divine and heavenly matters whether it were by minding them of what he had publickly thaught or explaining his Pulpit-doctrines to them we need not much trouble our selves to inquire But suppose he did preach though it was not privately but openly enough to the World as any one that looks into the history as it is recorded by the Evangelists may easily perceive in that house or any else as by his Divine prerogative he might doe what he would and that which every private Minister is not bound to follow him in yet how it can be made use of to countenance those that set up a course of house-preaching and that in other mens Parishes where there are Preaching Ministers established by Law and where they have no manner of allowance or Authority so to doe as our Saviour Christ had nay being forbidden by Authority as he was not I do not understand As for speaking to or with the people in that house or any other or making use of that or any other private meeting either in separation from or competition with much less in opposition to the publick Ordinances of God then in use as our Conventicles now-a-days are used that was far from our Saviour's meaning or practice who improved that and all meetings and occasions in subordination and direct subserviency to the Synagogue-service and Temple-worship of the Jewish Church And that Christ should be a publick and not a private house-preacher the Scriptures did foretell long before his coming By the Prophet Esay I have not spoken in secret in the dark places of the earth And by