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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78447	The censures of the church revived. In the defence of a short paper published by the first classis within the province of Lancaster ... but since printed without their privity or consent, after it had been assaulted by some gentlemen and others within their bounds ... under the title of Ex-communicatio excommunicata, or a Censure of the presbyterian censures and proceedings, in the classis at Manchester. Wherein 1. The dangerousness of admitting moderate episcopacy is shewed. ... 6. The presbyterian government vindicated from severall aspersions cast upon it, ... In three full answers ... Together with a full narrative, of the occasion and grounds, of publishing in the congregations, the above mentioned short paper, and of the whole proceedings since, from first to last.	Harrison, John, 1613?-1670.; Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.	1659 (1659)	Wing C1669; Thomason E980_22; ESTC R207784	289,546	380

know of And if you had gathered thus much from our Paper as your mistake had been far the lesse so your Charity had been the more then to have reckoned us in the number of such Person as the Donatists were And yet we did not mean That we intended to take notice in order unto censure of such who being sound in the faith and godly in life though differing from us in point of Discipline and Government had their distinct Assemblies from ours they indeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace They not being censurable by the rules of our Government as is manifest by what we have declared before Although we remember how all that submitted not to the former Government were counted schismatical Neither did we reckon these in the number of the lawless Persons we speak of who subjected not themselves to our Government and whom we account to be parts of the universal visible Church militant here on earth however they have also their publique Assemblies distinct from ours though sundry of them as there is occasion resort to ours also But how we should hereupon make either these or the lawless Persons that we speak of members of the invisible Triumphant Church all which we have reckoned to belong to the visible they must have eyes quicker then Eagles that can discern how this follows and therefore there is no fear our Charity should so far over-reach as you supposed it might But still you are unsatisfied For you know not it seems what we mean by the word Publique the publique Assemblies of the Saints By our professions and practises in our owning the Publique Assemblies where the publique Ordinances of the word Sacraments and Prayer are dispensed which we our selves do constantly frequent and stir up others to frequent also it was plain enough what we meant by publique Assemblies And we are heartily sorry that you understanding our meaning as is clear by what you say anon should by this but make your way to give a lash at our private meetings which are none of them such as we need to be ashamed of And which when we meet either for conference about matters of Religion or to pray together and humble our selves for our own sins and the sins of these times when there is not the opportunity of a publique Assemby or when personal or Family occasions call for a private is surely as commendable at the least as a private meeting upon domestical civil or political occasions and therefore not to be secretly girded at As on the other hand we do not meddle with the censuring of those who being godly and sound in the faith in the main points of Relegion do yet differ from us in iudgement in matters of Discipline and Government and have their Assemblies for Gods publique worship distinct from ours as we are barred from it by the rules of our Government as we have often said before And therefore we leave room enough for Consciences that are truely tender Though we cannot say so much for the Prelatical Government Neither do we transgress any Laws of the Land which have made no provision to except any persons that we meddle with and are made censurable by the rules laid down in the from of Church Government nor have we under Colour of Authority made any Laws and Edicts but according to that power that the civil Authority hath committed to us have only openly given notice in our several Congregations of what offences are censurable by the rules of our Government that the offenders might take heed they incurre not that censure of Excommunication which Authority hath awarranted us to inflict upon the obstinate and otherwise incorrigible And therefore except to execute what we are appointed to do by the civil power be to contemn it we cannot be thought to have done any thing in contempt of the civil power as it is not our ignorance of the Laws in force that we are confident being grounded in reason fight not one aganst another and which is your more charitable and favorable construction that hath led us into any practises that are transgressions of them And therfore though you much question upon what account soever it be that we have been led into what we have acted and think it concernes us to look to it whether we have not run our selves into a premunire Yet we are assured we are as sufficiently secured against that danger as all the Iustices in the Land are that have acted upon other Ordinances of Parliament which they have judged to be in force as we do also those to be that have been the ground of our proceedings SECT X. BUt you have yet further to except for whereas we said That like notice should be taken of all scandalous Persons Your next Quaere is Whether those that forsake the publique Assemblies of the Saints in the second order may not be taken for scandalous Persons cemprehended in the third order Here we perceive you understood who were ment by those that did forsake the publique Assemblies of the Saints viz. Those who forsaking the Assemblies where the publique Ordinances were dispensed were upon that account really and indeed scandalous and so being comprehended under the latitude of that expression might justly merit to be censured as scandalous Persons And thus conceiving you were not mistaken but yet we who were to express our selves popularly and so as we might be understood considering some of that stamp though they forsook the publique Assemblies of the Saints and coustantly turned their backs as on the Lords Supper so on all other Ordinances yet if not drunkards and swearers whoremasters c. did not take themselves to be scandalous Persons Do not think that in this we are any more to be blamed by you we using variety of expressions onely for this end that we might be better understood then we blame Lawyers and Attorneys and wherein we judge them not tolbe blame worthy for using variety of expressions and Multiplicity of Synonymous Words to make the matter more clear and out of doubt where yet one and the same thing is understood by all But now hereupon your complaint is That we burden you with Traditions in multiplying of orders fine necessitate ad Arthritim usque and you cry out Quare oneramini ritibus And tell us of lengthning out our Paper which yet is not by these few words here used made very much longer But if you had remembred the multitude of Canons and burdensom Ceremonies that were rigorously pressed even to the highest censure in Case of refusall and under the burthen whereof sundry truly conscientious Persons under the late Prelacy did sigh and groan When those that were scandalous enough in their lives escaped censure and which some have cause not so soon to forget we think you would have seen little reason to have complained of our burthening you with traditions in multiplying orders unnecessarily SECT XI ANd now we come

shall be severall of them found to allow of the thing it self and give testimony to the being of these Officers in the Church in their time We shall here mention onely some of those that may be alledged touching this particular And first Ambrose his words on 1 Tim. 5. 1. are full and plain to our purpose Vnde synagoga postea Ecclesia seniores habuit quorum sine consilio nihil agebatur in Ecclesia Quod qua negligentia obsoleverit nescio nisi forte doctorum desidia aut magis superbia dum sibi volunt aliquid videri i. e. Whence both the Synagogue and afterwards the Church had Elders without whose counsell nothing was done in the Church Which thing by what negligence it grew out of use I know not unless perhaps through the Teachers sloathfulness or rather haughtiness while they alone would be thought somewhat In the next place observe what Optatus saith lib. 1. Adversus Parmen Eram Ecclesie ex auro argento quam plurima ●rnamenta quae nec defodere terra nec secum po●tare poterat quare fidelbus Ecclesiae senioribus commendavit i. i. e. The Church had many Ornaments of Gold and Silver which she could neither hide in the Earth nor carry away with her which she committed to the Elders The Provinciall Assembly of London do observe that Albaspinaeus that learned Antiquary upon the place acknowledgeth that besides the Clergy there were certain of the Elders of the people men of approved life that did tend the Affaires of the Church of whom this place is to be understood To these we may add That Austine gives frequent intimations of the ruling Elder in his time We shall here onely mention some places In his 137. Epistle to those of his owne Church he thus directs it Dilectissimis fratribus Clero Senioribus universae plebi Ecclesiae Hipponensis i. e. To the most beloved Brethren the Clergy Elders and all the people of the Church at Hippo. Where we see Elders are mentioned distinctly and are interposed between the Clergy and the people as distinct from both Again De verb. Dom. Serm. 19. Cum ob errorem aliquem as●nioribus arguuntur imputatur alicui de illis cur ebrius fuerit c. When they are reprehended for any errour by the Elders and its imputed to any of them why was he drunk c. So againe Lib. 3. contra Cresconium cap. 56. Peregrinus Presbyter seniores Musticanae regionis Peregrine the Presbyter and the Elders of the Mustican Region And long before him Origen contra Celsum lib. 3. hath this passage Nonnulli praepositi sunt qui in vitam mores eorum qui admittuntur inquirant ut qui turpia committant iis communi caelu interdicant c i. e. There are some Rulers appointed who may enquire concerning the Conversation and manners of those that are admitted that they may debar from the common Assembly such as commit filthiness This place of Origen is clear for ruling Elders whose work it is to enquire into the Conversation and manners of those that are admitted to communicate with the Congregation at the Lords Table and is so understood by others as well as our selves We might alledge more Testimonies of the Fathers for the proof of what we are in hand with but that we judge these sufficient Even those that do oppose the ruling Elders Office with too much vehemency are forced to confess that besides Pastors and Doctors and besides Magistrates and Elders of the City there are to be found in Antiquity Seniores ecclesiastici Ecclesiasticall Elders also But they will have them to be onely as our Church-wardens or rather as our Vestry-men as one of them speaks See the Author of Episcopacy by divine right pag. 146. whereas the Testimonies alledged shew they were Rulers and Judges in Causes Ecclesiasticall and did assist the Ministers of the Word in the ruling and governing of the Church which being very clear from the above mentioned Testimonies and others of the like kind another zealous enough against them would have them to be some or other in chief Rank amongst the rest of the people taken in occasionally for advice and present assistance and so an extraordinary kind of Church-Guardians without any peculiar and setled Jurisdiction Which is but gratis dictum sayd without all proof See Velitatienes polemicae by I. D. pag. 96 But at last this Author as not satisfied with former Answers given and granting that the Fathers in truth do make for them as indeed they do yet he would not have their Testimonies amount to so much as to the clearing up of Divine Right so strongly stood upon by divers as he speaks But the matter of Fact then is granted that there were such Ecclesiastical Officers which the Fathers owned and allowed of And being the Divine Right of their Office was not then questioned it is as easie for us to affirm that as those Fathers did not deny it so they owned it as it is for that Author to say That they were but admitted as an expedient and behoovefull Order in the Church or on prudentiall grounds To use his own expressions quoted before Vide Pag. 96. Sect. 30. Although this being granted will be sufficient to vindicate this Office of the ruling Elder from all suspition of novelty and to shew That it was no new fangled device of Calvin at Gevena as some tauntingly have sayd And for your admittance of the ruling Elder this might be sufficient for your satisfaction as we think according to your Principles But now to return to the Texts alledged by us to prove the Divine Right of the ruling Elders Office After you had sent us to the Fathers to consult them you tell us Many there are that apply them to the Bishops and amongst these you instance Doctor Fulk applying these Texts to the Bishops onely whom you say you quote in regard of the moderate Judgment he was supposed to be of in point of Church-government c. But you having not dealt so fairely with Calvin as had been meet you must pardon us if we cannot take the matter you quote him for upon trust and from your representation of him You do not here cite the place but for what reason your selves best know as we leave it to the Reader for to judge But the words that you alledge out of him though mangled by you we find in him in his Answer to the Rhemists on Titus 1. 5. And we shall give them the Reader intirely and at full length and they are these Amongst whom speaking of the Clergy for Order and seemly Government there was alwaies one Principall to whom by long use of the Church the name of Bishop or superintendent hath been applyed Which Room Titus exercised at Crete Timothy in Ephesus and others in other places Therefore although in Scripture a Bishop and an Elder is of one Order and Authority in preaching the Word and administration of

well remember how under the Episcopall government there was a generall admission and that sundry grosly ignorant did croud in amongst the rest unto this Ordinance and therefore that these might be discovered and kept off from this Sacrament till fitter for it we judged it requisite that according to that power that is glven to the Eldership in the form of Church-government for this purpose there should be a triall taken of all the communicants that so there might be some distinction made and not be a promiscuous admitting of all as heretofore And we are sure that such amongst us who having been anciently catechised and a long while commoners at the Lords Table to use your own expressions have witnessed the best confession for their parts and piety have been the most forward to draw on others to be willing to be re-examined by their own good example therein and that the greatest opposers of this course however they may be some of them persons of parts yet have been such as have been either scandalous in their lives or not so forward for piety as were to be desired We have thus given an account of what is our practice in this matter but this examination of communicants de novo was not the thing we here spake of as why the examination of them before their admission of them at the first was here mentioned we have delared before But we see you are willing to lay hold on any thing wherein you apprehend you have any advantage against us though it be never so small Fifthly You charge us again with another non sequitur when we inferre that if the Churches lawfull Pastors have power to excommunicate the scandalous we see not in reason how you can find fault with our proceedings if there should be occasion for our censuring any such persons but this inference yet stands good against any thing by you alleadged to the contrary and in it self is clear and manifest being there is no excommunication that passeth with us against any but by the juridical act of the lawfull Pastors of our several Churches or Congregations and whose power by you should not be questioned or the validity of their censures because of the concurrence of the ruling Elders as by way of preventing an Objection we hinted to you in our answer considering what power was exercised in the time of Episcopacy by the High Commissioners Chancellors and Commissaries as much Lay-men then in your judgement as ruling Elders can be now to whom yet there was a submission by you This reason you say is weak but you do not prove it to be so Nay here you fall short in two main points For 1. You misrepresent the matter of fact and that in two particulars 1. When you would intimate that the High-Commissioners Chancellors and Commissaries did all of them officiate by deputation from and under a lawfull Pastor when as it is manifest the High-Commissioners had no deputation from the Bishop but received their Commission from the King if not the Chancellors also and did act in those Ecclesiasticall censures that were by them passed in joynt and equall power with the Bishop by virtue of their Commission 2. The Parliament that did appoint the ruling-Elders in the form of Church government did not oblige any that were to submit to them to acknowledg the jus divinum of their Office neither do we impose this opinion of them upon any And therefore notwithstanding our own judgment concerning them in this respect the comparison betwixt them and the other as to what is necessary for your satisfaction doth still hould good and is neither weak nor frivolous as you say 2. But if the matter of fact should be granted to have been according to your representation sc that High-Commissioners Chancellours c. did all of them officiate by deputation from or under a lawfull Pastor how doth this help the matter to make your submission to these lawfull and yet your submission to the ruling Elders unlawfull For 1. we are as yet to learn and we think you will never be able to make it good that a trust committed to one by man much less reposed by God in an officer in the Church and particularly in the Pastor may be delegated If this be so he might sufficiently discharge his duty by another preach by another administer the Sacrament by another as well as dispense the censures of the Church by another who yet himself is to give an account of their souls unto God which he will never be able to make in the omission of those duties in his own person though he appoint another unto them But being the highest officer in the Church doth not himself act out of plenitude of power for that were to make him a Pope and Antichrist that belonging only to Jesus Christ the King and Lord of the Church to whom all power is given in Heaven and earth and hath no more but a ministry committed to him which he hath received of Christ as his servant who hath required him to fulfill it he may not depute any other as under him or as his servant to do that which his Lord and master hath intrusted him with and appointed him to do himself 2. But further we do here enquire of you whether by virtue of that deputation which the persons spoken of received from a lawfull Pastor according to your allegation you will have them to be Ecclesiasticall officers or but meer lay-men still If notwithstanding that deputation they be but meer lay-men how will you awarrant them to meddle with Ecelesiasticall censures because deputed thereunto by the Bishop when God hath excluded all those that are but meer lay-men from medling authoritatively with Ecclesiasticall matters If the High-Priest in the time of the Law had given to Vzziah a Commission to have gone into the Temple of the Lord to burn incense upon the Altar of incense and he had so officiated by deputation from and under him would that have been sufficient to have born him out in so doing whenas that work pertained not unto him but unto the Priests the sonnes of Aaron that were consecrated to burn incense If by vertue of that deputation they had from the Bishops they were Ecclesiasticall officers invested with authority to exercise Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction and dispense Church-censures and so not meer lay-men we may say much more for the outward call unto that office that our ruling Elders do execute they having been elected by the people that anciently had a vote in the choice even of the very Bishops as is clear from the Records of Antiquity and examined by the Pastors of the Churches and by them approved as fit and set apart solemnly to rule in the house of God by exhortation and Prayer as hath been said before 6. But you now go on and declare whom you mean by lawfull Pastors sc such persons as have received their Ordination from men lawfully and

or tendered his judgment as an umpire and composer of differences betwixt us as you here say although we reverence him as a man that was learned and godly and of a farre different spirit from the generality of those that dote upon Episcopacy but for what purpose we quoted him and how farre we accord with him we have as in answer to this occasionally so fully declared our s●lves before in our answer to your second Paper And therefore you should not have been thus rash as to impute such things to us for which there is not the least shew of truth as there is not any in what you further adde saying that you would have closed with us on our own termes unto which we have spoken sufficiently in the beginning of this answer to this Paper shewing how much you forgot your selves when you said so before And we must further tell you that however you may conceive of us yet we can still profess with a good conscience that we can cordially our selves joyn in Dr. Bernards wish and heartily recommend it to all sober spirited and godly persons that are sound in the main points of Religion though of different opinions in some things touching Church Government that they would close therein there be nothing more that we long after then an happy healing of breaches amongst those that are the children of peace 4. We having thus vindicated our selves do now come to what followes where you say that Presbytery in the Fathers and Scripture expressions you reverence but ours you still term a common fold and th●se godly pretences of ours as you call them as so many waste Papers wherein our Presbytery you say is wrapped to make it look more handsomely and pass more currantly But if you had reverenced Scripture expressions as it had been meet you should you would have abstained from terming our Presbytery a common fold that Presbytery which you acknowledge to be the Scripture expression according to the interpretation of the Fathers by you alleadged being thereby reproached that being Presbytery still and part of that that by you is so ignominiously spoken of as seeing it is disputed betwixt you and us whether ruling Elders be not comprehended under the latitude of the word Presbytery when speech is touching the Ecclesiastical judicatory due reverence unto Scriptural institutions would have withheld you from coming near to the vilifying that which you are not certain but may be of God especially considering how the reformed Churches abroad the late reverend pious and learned Assembly of Divines at home the Provincial Assembly of London and the Ministers of the Provincial Assembly of this County to which you owe respect do all conceive the ruling Elders to be Officers of the Church appointed therein by Christ and so consequently may be comprehended under the latitude of the word Presbytery But the truth is we have cause to fear that you or most of you are so much devoted to Episcopacy that Presbytery in any sense is not any further in esteem with you as any Government of the Church to be owned by you but as you apprehend in this juncture of affairs it being admitted for the present with Prelacy moderated might be a step to erect again in time Episcopacy in its full height and which we judge to be that cause which in your Preface to these Papers you have printed you profess to love as we do also conceive we may further say without transgression of any rules of charity that if the late King had not been too much bent for the upholding of that kind of Episcopacy that was on foot in his time that spoiled the Pastors of the Churches of that rule which our Church acknowledged did of right belong to them and had not been therein backed with the concurrence of some of you and sundry others throughout the Land that were therein fully of his mind the proposals of Dr. Usher touching the reduction of Episcopacy to the forme of Synodical Government had been more readily complied with then they were to the prevention in likelihood in a good measure of those troubles that afterward did arise about Church Government But however there was no reason why either he or you should have called Presbytery a common fold or why you should though you had been backed with the authority of the greatest Prince on earth have called it the anguis in herbâ whereof you had need to beware and to which you here say nothing though you used that expression concerning it in your first Paper And whereas you had also there said referring to the Paper we published in our several Congregations that she came ushered in with godly pretence of sorrow for the sins and ignorance of the times and the duty incumbent on us to exercise the power that Christ had committed to us for edification and not destruction and then said that these were but so many wast Papers wherein Presbytery was wrapped up to make it look more handsomely and pass more currently yet that is no purgation of you from your uncharitable censuring of us and usurping that which belonged not to you in making your selves judges of that which fell not under your cognizance and which was that which we had charged you with in our answer but from which you do not here acquit yourselves But as touching our selves we are not conscious that we have so farre transgressed the rules of charity in passing hard censures either upon him you or any others but that we may approve our selves here to God touching our innocency herein and the sincerity of our hearts and hereafter stand with boldness before the Tribunal of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ at the great day and we do heartily wish that neither any of you or any others throughout these Nations who adhered to the late King in that war he levyed against the Parliament had given the occasion justly to be complained of at that day as therein his greatest enemies The Gentlemens Paper Sect. VI. And now we come you say to frame an Objection out of your Paper and return our Answer profeising that we pray for the establishment of such a Church Government throughout his Highness Dominions as is consonant to the will of God and Universal practise of primitive Churches By which two viz. the will of God and Uinversal practise of Churches we seem to make up the rule as you say for deciding of Controversies of this Nature or of any other in matters of Religion In which you profess to differ greatly from us as not sound and orthodox For the Word of God is the onely rule to judg of matters of this Nature or of any other matters of Religion and therefore away with the constant and Universal practise of the Church We might have cut the matter a great deal shorter and said That we are for the establishment of that Government that is most consonant to the will of God revealed in

order to excommunication in Calvins judgement And this was necessarily implied in the words we used in our Answer when we opposed an admonition in order to further censure unto that which is but an exhortation only intimating plainly enough thereby that there was besides an admonition in order to further censure a meer charitative admonition which was not to be followed with any Church censure in case it prevailed not This is that likewise which our forementioned Reverend Brethren of Essex in their Agreement do also speak of having given their sense upon Mat. 18. 15. they further say in their Agreement pag. 15. n. 6. Besides this Ecclesiasticall admonition we yeeld there may be other charitative admonitions which must not preceed to Ecclesiasticall censure But from all that hath been thus far spoken touching admonition it s very clear that admonition taken strictly and properly is a reprehension in regard of some evill or fault done Though we do not deny but there may be an admonition by way of caution warning to take heed of some sin that one may be in danger to commit We shall now proceed to shew what exhortation is taken in a strict acceptation To exhort strictly is to excite or perswade and stir up unto that which is good and is distinguished from admonition taken properly as is manifest from the Text before quoted 1 Thes 5. 14. Now we exhort you brethren 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 warne them that are unruly c. The Thessalonians are here exhorted only or stird up to perform their duty towards the unruly c. and are not at all blamed by the Apostle but the unruly that were to be warned or admonished were to be reproved and blamed by the Thessalonians for their unruliness And there is place frequently for an exhortation when there is not to be any reprehension or admonition given in regard of any thing amiss But to make this matter yet more plain we may here distinguish of exhortation as before of admonition For exhortation also is either charitative or of private Christians and of which Heb. 3. 13. Exhort one another daily while it is called to day and Heb. 10. 25. Not forsaking the assembling of your selves together as the manner of some is but exhorting one another c. or authoritative and of the Minister and which may be either publick or private and of which there is often speech in the new Testament As 1 Tim. 2. 1. I exhort therefore that first of all supplications and prayers c. be made for all men 2 Cor. 9. 5. Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren 1 Tim. 6. 21. These things teach and exhort So in one of the Texts alleadged by you Titus 2. 15. These things speak and exhort and rebuke with all authority Where exhortation may well be distinguished from rebuke though both be authoritative and are to be joyned with Doctrine such applications of Doctrine being very usefull and necessary So 1 Pet. 5. 1. The Elders which are among you I exhort who am also an Elder By these Texts it is clear that as an exhortation properly is an excitation or perswasion unto something that is good so it is distinguished from admonition taken strictly and which is a reprehension for something amiss and that in many cases it may be usefull when there is not the least intimation of any neglect or sin committed for which the parties so exhorted are reproved Unto which we may further adde Acts 27. 22. where Paul saish to those in the ship with him And now I exhort you to be of good chear This exhortation was not doubtless in order to any Church censure and therefore must needs be distinguished from such an admonition So when it is said of Barnabas that when he had seen the grace of God he was glad and exhorted them all that with purpose of heart they would cleave to the Lord Acts 11. 23. This cannot be with any colour understood of any admonition in order to Church censure The best of men that walk never so blamelesly may be exhorted when yet there is no reason why they should be admonished in order to Church censure except men must be admonished and censured for such common infirmities from which no men on earth are wholly free But by this that we have said it is sufficiently evidenced that in Scripture language an exhortation taken strictly and properly is notwithstanding your scoff a different thing from an admonition in order to further censure if it prevail not And we think however you may account of us you had shewed your selves to have been more learned if you had not so causelesly quarrelled with that which is so manifest to any that are versed either in Scripture or any other approved Authors But we shall not examin what you oppose to what we had herein asserted 1. And first you begin with us sharply and say What every admonition a kind of Church censure or in order as we call it thereunt● not exhortation so You confess your ignorance of such a distinction not having as yet learned ●t either from Scripture Fathers c. But here you charge us with what we never said c. That every admonition is a kind of Church censure or in order to it and no exhortation so Our distinction intimated that besides the admonition that was in order to Church Censure there might be a charitative admonition as there may be a charitative exhortation yea an authoritative by the Minister when yet there is no place for censure in case the exhortation be successeless This we have shewed you from Scripture though you twit us again with being for the word of God alone for which we are not ashamed to profess our selves to be And thus you have very learnedly in the first place opposed us by imputing to us what we never said 2. But it may be your next is of greater strength and therefore we shall hearken to what you have to tell us sc That the words admonish and exhort are promiscuously used And who ever denied this Here therefore you have put your selves upon the pains to prove what we never gainsayed nay you prove by could not be the catechized persons mentioned immediately before who were to be exhorted only But these only in the beginning of the fourth Order that were to be privately admonished according to the Order prescribed Mat. 18. once or twice to see if they would reforme But this reason because you could not answer you do warily passe it over and never meddle with it 2. But notwithstanding this reason rendred you hope to bfnde us to your absurd and uncharitable construction you had put upon us But when we examine with what Arguments you do it you again discover therein your wonted deficiency And therefore 1. In your reply as it was presented unto us for want of reason wherewith to oppose us the first thing that we meet with in answer to our assertion and