myghtye wynde when he gaue hys holye spirite vnto hys Apostles Phylyp There is no doubte but he dyd it to The holye spirite sheweâ— in wynde signifie that as the winde suffereth the Rociers the litle and small trees and ouerthroweth by the rootes breaketh down broseth and maketh ruinous the greate myghtye trees So the vertue of thys holy spirite is to bring consolation to the hertes aflicted to purge the consciences to iudge the euile to ouerthrowe and sette downe the proude and to vpholde beare vp the weake and humble Natha If we wyll then haue anye thynge of God we muste obteygne it by Iesus Christe workynge in vs by hys holie spirite Phylip. It is euen so for by hym all the beleuers be vnite in one self body with their head Iesus Christe and be nourished and vinified in hym as by the soule and spirite all the meÌ„bres whyche be in one bodye be partakers of the goodnes which is in the same body Natha I beleue for that cause we put to by by after thys article the which appertayneth nyghe vnto the churche the whych is the bodye of Iesus Christ of the whyche thou speakeste of vinifiynge sanctifiynge by the same holy Gooste for we do saye by and by after the catholyke churche Phy. There is no doubte Natha In asmuch theÌ„ as we haue treated the other three partes The church of the crede that we be come to the fourth whyche concerneth the churche daughter of the celestiall father spouse of Iesus Christe tell me fyrste what thou callest the church Phy. Churche signifieth congregation and assemble Eph. v but I do take it and vnderstaÌ„d it here for the asseÌ„ble of the true and faythful christians whyche be vnite coÌ„ioyned by one selfe spirite and one selfe fayeth Natha Is there anye other church then the churche of the faithfull Phy. As we do cal the bodye and membres of Iesu Christe the churche so hath Antichriste hys body and membres whyche togyther make the malignaunt churche but for asmuche as that toucheth vs in nothynge we leaue it aparte and speake only here of the tru The malygnant church church of Iesu Christe therfore do we cal it holy Natha For what cause Phy. To put difference betwene hyr and the church of Antichriste and for asmuche as she is sanctified by the holye Goste for to be the temple and habitatioÌ„ of God Natha Wher fore doest thou also call it catholike what signifieth that worde catholyke Catholike Phy. It doeth signifie vniuersal and therfore do I saye I beleue the vniuersall churche bycause the churche doeth signifie all assembles and congregation where the fayethfull be assembled as is the church of Choâ—hi of Rome Galathiens and othere lyke I wyll declare that there is one catholyke churche that is to saye vniuersall and generall comprehending all the other the whyche is generallye sowen thorowe all the worlde onelye knowen of the onelye God whiche knoweth the hertes Natha If she be sowen thorowe all the world how is she a church seing that church signifieth coÌ„gregatioÌ„ asseÌ„ble so as thou sayeste it should seeme rather to disperation seperation and confution Phylype Therefore muste we considre thys The churche inuisible churche spirituallye and muste not thynke it to be a visible and local assemble sette and limited in a certaine place Nathana Howe vnderstandest thou thys or howe can the churche be inuisible seyng it is the assemble of the fayethful whyche be visible menne Phy. I denye not but that the men whyche be of the churche be visible but thys ioynynge togyther of the churche oughte not to be considered of the coniunction of the bodies but of the hertes spirits that be inuisible which none cause and therefore notwythstandinge I see the menne that be of thys churche wheÌ„ they be presente wyth me yet neuertheles I The churche mingeled thorowe all the worlde can not see them all because they be sparkeled abrode thorowe all the worlde and thoughe they myght be assembled all in one place yet coulde I not knowe them perfectlye because that the elected shal neuer be so wel seperated in thys worlde frome the infidels and reproued but there shall be alwayes manye hypocrites mingled amonge them the whyche we can not wel deserue nor iudge vnto such time as Iesus Christe shall make seperation of the Math. xxv goâ—es from the lambes and of the wheate froÌ„ the tares therfore do I saye that thys church is inuisible because the eye caÌ„ not se it nor the humayne iudgmeÌ„t wel deserue it therfore do we saye we beleue it for if we did se it at our eye wee beleued not but notwythstandynge we can not se it at our eye yet we beleue that the Lorde hathe hys elected whyche notwithstandynge they be sparkeled aboute thorowe all the worlde as touchynge theyr bodies be yet neuertheles so ioyned togither by the spirite of God that they be but one selfe bodye one selfe herte and one selfe soule Act. ii iiii Natha Thou wylt then saye that the vniuersall churche is a spirituall and inuisible asseÌ„ble of all the elected and chyldrene of God whyche be vpon the earth in what place so euer they be whyche notwythstandinge they be seperated and farre distaunte one frome a nother as concerninge theyr bodyes yet they be all vnite by one selfe spirite into one body misticall of the whyche Christe is the head Col. i. ii whyche dyed for to assemble the chyldrene of God that were sparkeled but if thys church be inuisible howe canste thou saye thou beleueste in hyr and that thou holdeste hyr fayth howe canste thou knowe what she is what she beleueth if thou know hir not Phylype I saye not that I beleue in hyr Natha Doeste not thou confesse I beleue in the holye Gost the holye vniuersal churche Phy. I do saye and confesse openlye I beleue in God the father and in Iesu Christ and in the holye Gooste but of the churche I do not saye I beleue in the holye churche but I beleue the holye churche Nathana Is it not all one what difference is there Phy. Verye greate For if I sayed I beleue in the holye church I should coÌ„fesse that I put my trust in hyr as I haue sayed before to beleue in God and the churche is not god but is an asseÌ„ble of men cursed is man that trusteth in man wherfore if I sayed I beleue Iere. xvii in hyr I should speake agaynste my self and should reuerse the fayeth which I haue coÌ„fessed hytherto Nathana Declare vnto me the differeÌ„ce Phi. By expositioÌ„s going befor it is opeÌ„ inough what seÌ„ce mi words should haue if I sayed I beleue in the church But when I do saye I beleue the holie churche that is to saye I beleue and confesse that ther is an assemble by the whyche I haue diffined the churche and that in the same I wyll lyue and dye Natha Howe wylt
which was coÌ„ceiued by the holie goste borne of the virgin marie suffred vnder ponce pilate was crucâ—fied dead buried desceÌ„ded into hel the thyrd day he rose againe froÌ„ death he asceÌ„ded into heaueÌ„ sitteth on the right haÌ„d of God the father almighty from thense he shal come to Iudge the quycke and the deade I beleue in the holye Gost the holy Catholike church the communion of sayntes the forgyuenes of synnes The resurrection of the bodye and the lyfe euerlastynge AmeÌ„ Phy. The better to deuide these matters for the healpe of the memory we wil deuide the crede al generally in foure principal partes thei of the .iiii. partes that shal be most tedious loÌ„ge we mai deuide wher it shal seme vnto vs most mete for the playner vnderstandyng and the better to kepe all thynges in memorie And in the first shal be spoken of God in generall of the person of the father of the creation of all thynges In the seconde of Iesus Christ our Lord and of oure redemption In the thyrde of the holye Goste In the fourthe of the churche of the thynges vnto hyr apperteyning Nata Thys ordre shal be very good let vs therfore come vnto the fyrste parte what vnderstandest thou wheÌ„ thou saiest I beleue Phy. That I do put my whole confidence truste hope What it is to bâ—â—â—ue to hym in whom I beleue trustynge in hym wyth all my herte abydynge and lokinge to receyue of hym onely ayde succour saluatioÌ„ lyfe and al good thynges Natha Thou doeste Psal xiiii then confesse that thou trusteste al whollâ— in hym and in none other Phy. It is so for it is tru that who so euer trusteth in him shal not be deceuyed nor confounded and I say I beleue because that none other can beleue for me Natha It semeth bi thy words that thou wylt affyrme that faith doth not serue but to him that hath it that it profiteth not to another but vnto hym whose it is Phy. I denye In what the fayth of other may profitte not but the fayth of other may serue for prayer vnto God for me for my conuercion and my sinnes and for to presente me vnto hym aske of hym my saluation as we haue example in the sicke of the palseye but if I haue not fayth also in my selfe I can not receyue it Natha What sayest thou then of theÌ„ whiche forseth not to vnderstand and knowe the doctrine of fayth but doeth suffice them to saye I beleue in the holye mother church I beleue that whych the holye churche beleueth albeit they knowe not what she beleueth and doth truste more in the fayth of other then in theyr owne Phy. The prophet hath learned me to speake and fele otherwise when he hath sayd the Iuste shall lyue by hys fayeth wherefore I do conclude that euen as I can not lyue by the soule and life an other but of mine owne that also my soule can not lyue by the fayeth of other but by hys own faith whych giueth hym lyfe as the soule to the bodye Natha Seynge then that the faith doth vinifie man it muste then be lyuelye and that the fayeth whyche is deade is no fayeth Phy. Yes it is fayth as a deade man is a man wythout hauynge lyfe mouynge nor felynge wythout whych thynges man can not be man but a deade carion or els it is fayeth as a paynted fyre is a fyre wythout heate clearnes or light whyche be thynges impossible and contrary to theyr nature Natha They their whyche doeth saye they beleue wythout knoweynge what they do beleue and seâ—tel them selues at all aueÌ„ture vpon the fayth of other haue not the ryght fayeth Phy. What fayth may that be whyche hath no fundation nor ground vpon The fundation of fayeth the promises of God beynge ignoraunt of theÌ„ for the tru faieth hath for his ground fundation the promise of God and his word wythout the whiche it can not be fayth Natha What is it then Phy. If thou wylte call it fayth and abuse the worde we may cal it fayned paynted historicall or deade faieth For faith can we not rightlye call it in suche sorte as the holye scripture doeth take and vnderstand the worde fayeth wherefore if thou wilt cal it by more propre names thou maiste call it fantasie or foleish opinion or els temerite and presumption Natha I am inoughe satisfied in thys poynte tell me then nowe what is that God in whoÌ„e thou beleuest for I haue determined thus to examine the point by poynte not as an inquirar of thy fayeth to examine thy fayth and thy conscience but for to learne and to be taught of the. Phy. Thou demaundeste of me a thynge the whyche no vnderstanding can comprehend nor any tong open accordynge to hys dignitie Nathanaell Wherefore theÌ„ callest thou hym God if ther be no tongue that can setforth his name Phy The name of God It is very certaine that mani names be attributed vnto him of al people tonges natioÌ„s but there is none that maye perfectlye diffine and declare hys hature hys essence hys dignitie vertue and maiestie Natha To what purpose serueth then those names Phy. For to healpe and succoure the humayne infirmitie vnto the whyche muste be set forth and described suche thynges as it may comprehend and knowe for hys saluation Natha Seyng ther is no name in heaueÌ„ nor in the earth worthy nor sufficient vnto hys maiestie at the lest declare vnto me what thou vnderstandest by the name whyche thou gyuest vnto hym and other lyke Phylype I vnderstande not a creature mortall visible and corruptible but a spirite whyche is not created but eternall wythout What god is Iohn iiii Esaie â—l xx Psal xv ende or beginnynge a maiestie essence diuinite power wisdoÌ„ goodnes mirable infinit a soueraine goodnes hauing all in him selfe hauynge no neade of anye maner of thynge beynge sufficiente vnto hym selfe and to all creatures of the whyche he is onelye the author creatour gouernour coÌ„seruator Natha Wherefore doest that call hym likewyse father almyghtye Phy The better to declare and open that whyche I haue sayed Nata The name of father howe is it semiâ—g or appropried vnto God Phy. It is semynge vnto hym for dyuers causes and reasons the firste for asmuche as Wherfore god is called father Ephe. i. he is father of oure Lorde Iesus Christe And after bycause that he is author of all thynges and of the whyche deffendeth all fatherheade as well in heauen as in earth and singularlye bycause that he is of a moste fatherly affectioÌ„ toward hys elected vnto whoÌ„ he doeth shewe hym selfe as a moste louynge father toward hys chyldren and doeth holde and take them for hys for the loue he beareth vnto Iesus Christe hys natural sonne Natha Expounde me al these poyntes by perticulers and tell me fyrste howe he is father of oure Lorde Iesus Christe and howe Iesus Christe is the
father Natha They wyll replye wellynough vnto al that for they wil coÌ„fesse the of Iesus Christ all that thou wylte wyth theyr mouthes but they saye that notwythstandynge that Iesus Christe is oure aduocate towarde the father yet neuertheles as we haue neade of hym for to be oure aduocate towards the father euen so it is necessari for vs to haue other aduocates Intercessours to Christe Iohn xvi toward him for inasmuch as he is god we be sinners god doth not exalt and heare synners we haue neade of the sayntes which be more perfecte then we to be oure intercessours towarde hym Phy. We muste haue then a greate traine of intercessours and aduocates and in the ende we must haue intercessours towarde the saintes bycause we shall not be worthye inoughe for to addresse oure prayers vnto them Natha We haue them alreadye for the priestes monkes friers and nunes maketh vs beleue Intercessours to sayntes that they be oure aduocates and intercessours towardes the saintes and towardes God and therefore brynge we them money frome all partes and offre vnto them euerye daye gyftes and presentes as the clientes do to theyr counceylers of the lawe Phy. Thou maiste se nowe wel that the couetuousnes of priestes is the mother and nursse Intercession of lyuinge of thys Idolatrie and superstition I denye not but we haue commaundemente to praye the one for the other whyle we be in this presente lyfe but wee oughte not for all that to Timo. ii Iames. i. make marchaÌ„dise of our prayers nor to think they haue any efficatie but by the intercession of Iesus Christe nor that we muste addresse them vnto any other then hym onelye for to present them vnto the father for we haue neither commaundemeÌ„te nor exemple in the scripture to adresse our prayers vnto the saintes departed for we maye praye vnto diuers the which we knowe not whether they be saintes or no nor whether they be in heauen or hell but we be very certaine that Iesus Christ is in heauen and if we were assured they were in heauen yet we can not tell whether they know what we do here nor whether they heare vs or not nor whether they may healpe vs or no the scriptures witnes rather the coÌ„trari but of Iesus Christe we doubte not And yet further Wherefore shoulde we not wythout feare go vnto Iesus Christe rather then vnto ani other Is there any that hath more power wisdome and goodnes or that is more merciful Should our sinnes withdraw vs froÌ„ goyng vnto him Natha That is the cause they do aledge Phy. But that cause is against theÌ„ Christ calleth the sâ—nners selues for if I were no sinner I shoulde haue no neede of Iesus Christe if I were whole I had no nede of the phisitiaÌ„ but bicause I am Math. vi a sinner sicke haue I neede to go vnto hym whiche hath sayed Come vnto me al ye that laboure are laden I shal ease you doeth testifie hym selfe that he is not come for the iust but for the sinners nor for the whole but for the sicke They then which withdrawe vs Math. v. from hym be lyke vnto the scribes and phariseis whyche were offended and dyd murmure agaynste hym bycause he was conuersaunte wyth synners publicanes and they whyche make difficultie to go to hym haue suche a foleishe shame as they whyche haue some secrete sikenes and had rather ieobarde lyfe then open and shewe theyr discease vnto Iohn xiii the phisitian or as Saynt Petre had whyche would not haue suffered Iesus Christ to haue washed hys feete wythout the whyche washynge he myghte not haue bene anye partaker of hys kyngdome Or els it is wyth theÌ„ Luke v. as it was wyth the same Peter after he had fished al the nyght gate nothing til he had raste hys nettes into the sea by the coÌ„maundemente of Iesus Christe drue vp so much fishe that the shyppe was full and sanke in suche sorte that they were constrayned to call for healpe of theyr fellowes and haueynge greate meruayle he sayed vnto Iesus gooe from me for I aâ— a synfull manne he would that Iesus christe shoulde go from hym bycause he did knowe the vertue holines to be hys and dyd knowe the synnes and imperfections to be hys owne and dyd repute and thynke hym selfe vnworthye to be in hys coÌ„pani wher as he ought rather to haue sought hym to the ende that by hym he mighte haue bene fanctified and made worthye Nathana I am muche aferde it wyll be wyth suche menne as it was wyth Saynte Petre whyche gatte nothynge wyth all nyghte fysshynge tyl he had caste in hys nette by the coÌ„maundemente Fishinge by nyghte of Iesus Christe and so I beleue that we fyshe by nyghte in al that we do and go aboute in darkenes and ignoraunce wythout the word of God and hys coÌ„maundemente and wythout directynge oure selues vnto Iesus Christe and he beynge out of our companye but I beleue also that when we haue hym wyth vs and gouerne oure selues by hys commaundemente that we shal neuer fayle to take plentye and haue good fisshing Phy. If we do otherwyse it shall come vnto Math. vi Mar. xv Luke viii vs as it dyd vnto the woman beynge syke of the bloudye flyxe we shal spende all our goodes vpon such phisike surgery medicines oure sykenes shall alwayes appayre and be worsse vnto suche tyme as we come vnto Iesus Christe the whych maye onely heape vs. Nathanaell I nowe well vnderstande all thys and do knowe that they whyche seeke any other aduocate then Iesus Christ do not perfectlye beleue that he is deade for theÌ„ ryseÌ„ and asceÌ„ded into heauen for if they beleued it perfectely they shoulde know the greate loue he hathe borne them the good wyll he hath towardes them and the power that he hathe in heauen in earth and woulde sticke cleane and content them selues better wyth hym theÌ„ they do But in asmuch as thou haste expounded vnto me the fyrste maner and waye how I oughte to haue in remembraunce and contemplation the death resurrection and ascention of Iesus Christe for to knowe the fruite that cometh vnto me and the efficatie of the same declare vnto me nowe the other maner and howe it serueth vs for an example Phy. We shal come to it but fyrste I wyl admonishe the of one poynte towechyng the ascention of Iesus Christe that is that thys article Colo. i. ii Ephe. ii doeth serue to shewe vs that Iesus christ is the onelye head of hys triumphaÌ„te churche and that there is neyther Pope nor lyuynge manne vpon the earth nor any creature what soeuer he be vnto whom that office maye appertayne for the heade can not be wythout hys membres hys office is to vinifie leade gouerne healpe assiste vnto all the bodye al the meÌ„bres Then in asmuch as the church is vniuersall and
all that satisfied the churche whyche was offendyd by hym for notwythstandynge he hathe bene punishede in hys bodye or by hys purse or by boeth yet doeth it not for al that folow that he is an honest manne for in that he hathe bene punished hathe bene agaynste hys wyll and the payne that he hathe suffered hathe not for all that chaunged hys hert except the Lord with hys holye spirite haue touched hym therefore as the churche leueth vnto the punishmeÌ„t of the magistrate such as by him be punishable to be punished wyth such punishmente as they haue deserued wythout medelynge hyr selfe wyth the temporall swerde euen so ought the temporall magistrate not onely to suffer the church to procede in hyr office after he hath done hys but also to healpe hyr in the execution of hyr office if nead require as and if ther be any rebellioÌ„ against the same which requireth more greuouse punishment theÌ„ she maye gyue or put in execution for what other thynge is the ecclesiasticall councell or senate but a membre or parte of the magistrate and of them whyche partly be ordeyned by hym sauyng ther is an other maner of proceading for suche as haue bene moued to repentaunce but rather hardened by the punishmeÌ„te of the temporal swerde whych shal be conuerted by that whych shal be opened vnto theim of the worde of God for God hathe not coÌ„stituted the ministration of hys Gospel in his church wythout gyuynge hyr vertue and efficatie by hys holye spirite by the whych he doth strike the soules more lyuely theÌ„ the material swerd stryketh the bodye and further when a man hathe made suche amendes as he hathe bene ioyned vnto by the lawe theÌ„ is the ciuilitie of the lawe satisfied whyche forceth not muche wyth what herte it be done but the church requireth the testimonie of the herte and caÌ„not admitte them into hyr communion whyche be sclaunderous vnto hyr and whyche haue by the workes declared that they be no membres of hyr bodye excepte that fyrste she shall haue sene theyr repentaunce that they shall haue gyuen certayne sygnes and testimonies of the same for it is defended hyr to giue that Math. vii which is holy vnto Dogges and to caste hyr margarittes precious stones before swyne Natha But in asmuch as the churche is constitute of menne howe can she better iudge of the herte then the ciuyle magistrate and further what satisfaction wylte thou haue other theÌ„ that of Iesu Christ for thy self hath sayed that none othere can satisfie vnto the Iustice of God Phyly As towchynge the herte the churche leaueth it vnto the iudgmente of God which only knoweth it but yet neuertheles she hath more care theÌ„ the ciuyle magistrate can not admit nor receyue a manne into hyr coÌ„panie whyche at the leaste wyll not confesse wyth hys mouthe by the whyche he doeth testifie the christen herte that he hathe it may wel be that often tymes the herte doth not agre with the confession of the mouthe and that the coÌ„fession be fayned as it was in Simon Magus Ananias Saphyra but it sufficeth vnto the churche that a man shewe hyr outward testimonie of the herte for she can not iudge whether it be fained hypocriteth or faithful wherefore she can not caste out hym whyche commeth vnto hyr wyth anye testimonie of fayeth for if hys testimonie be fayned she leaueth the iudgmente vnto God whyche shall discouer it in hys time but to receyue any person wythout open testimonie of repeÌ„taunce faieth she caÌ„ not without doynge againste the word of god for wheÌ„ the dogs swine do opeÌ„lie shewe theÌ„ selfe such by theyr workes and be not couered with shepe skines why should she not iudg theÌ„ She hath none excuse nor resonable cause for to receiue theÌ„ seing that god hath giueÌ„ hir the iudgmeÌ„tes of such things that she hath the mean so to do therfor wheÌ„ a maÌ„ declareth hym self manifestlie sclaunderous a rebell vnto the ecclesiasticall correctioÌ„ discipline the last remedi that the church hath is to excoÌ„municate that is to saye to opeÌ„ vnto him that she taketh him not for any meÌ„bre of Christ nor worthi to be in the coÌ„pani of the faithful nor to coÌ„municate the Sacramentes whych Iesus Christ hath gyuen hir vnto the which ought none to be admitted but hir Math. xviii disciples but oughte to be reiected and depriued of them as a publican and a panim or as a Iewe or turke whyche the fayethfull wyll nor receyue into theyr communion but doeth hold him as an Apostata enemy of christiaÌ„ religioÌ„ wheÌ„ he is so reiected froÌ„ the church i. Corin. v. ii Corin. ii i. Timot. i. he is in the handes of Sathan for to afflicte him is seperated froÌ„ Iesu Christ after such sorte that if he do not reknowledge hys faultes amend him selfe and laboure to recoÌ„cyle hym selfe vnto the churche he is vtterly loste and dampned for in as muche as the churche hathe bounde hym he is bounde seynge that Iesus Christe hathe gyuen it that power by the ministration of hys worde by the whiche also he is vnbounde if he reknoweledge hys Math xvi xviii faultes be receyued agayne into the church by penaunce Natha The churche is then verye rigorouse and hathe a power muche moore to be feared then the swerd of the magistrate for it caÌ„ punish but the body but that of the church sleaeth the soules how doth this theÌ„ agre wyth that whyche Iesus Christe hathe sayed that he was not come for to destroye or lose but to saue is the church of anye other nature theÌ„ Luke ix Iesus Christ hir head Phyly No. But the euell do kyll and daâ—ne them selues in reiectynge the blissinge of Iesus Christe whyche is presented and offered vnto hym by his churche therfore the church doeth not dampne hym but onelye declareth vnto hym his daÌ„nation reiecteth him as daÌ„ned not to the intente that he should so be but to the inteÌ„t he should not be but he knowing hys damnation and seynge hym selfe depriued and shytte out of the companye of Iesus Christe of the Angels and of all sayntes and forsaken of all the fayethfull myghte be the more ashamed and confounded and the better feele the iudgemeÌ„te of God vpon hym to the ende that by thys meane he myghte he moued to repentaunce that he should not perishe eternallye for thys same oughte wel to astony hym seyng hym self bound by the churche whych hath suche power by the keyes which Iesus Christe hathe gyuen hyr that whatsoeuer Math. xvi xviii is bound or vnbouÌ„de in the earth by hyr is bouÌ„d or vnbounde in heauen Natha Then is the excommunication rather a medicine and a remedie then a death damnation Phylip. Accordynge as euerye man doeth vse it to hys profit for it is the last remedy of the churche the whyche she doeth vse as a corsey towardes synners that