Selected quad for the lemma: earth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
earth_n	church_n	invisible_a	visible_a	3,670	5	9.2967	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A08330	A true report of the priuate colloquy betweene M. Smith, aliâs Norrice, and M. VValker held in the presence of two vvorthy knights, and of a few other gentlemen, some Catholikes, some Protestants : with a briefe confutation of the false, and adulterated summe, which M. Walker, pastour of S. Iohn Euangelist in Watling-streete, hath diuulged of the same.	S. N. (Sylvester Norris), 1572-1630.; Walker, George, 1581?-1651.	1624 (1624)	STC 18661; ESTC S461	30,866	65

Church of Iesus Christ nor That it hath his true faith I demanded of M. Walker whether the true Church be alwayes visible or no M. WALKER The true Catholike Church is not visible because it comprehendeth the whole companie of the elect of which the greatest part being Saynts in heauen are without the ●each of mans eye and cannot be seene M. SMITH My question is not of the Church Triumphant in heauen but of the true Catholike Church Militant vpon earth M. WALKER But thus your wordes and question cohere not togeather for it is as absurd to say that the Catholike Church is militant on earth as it is absurd to affirme that all mankind euen the vniuersall race of Adam are now liuing M. SMITH Was S. Cyprian then absurd who called the militant Church vnited and conioyned in the vnion and linke of Priests adhering togeather The one Catholike Church To communicate with Cornelius the head only of the militant was to communicate with the Catholike Church Was S. Augustine absurd who tearmeth the militant Church whose communication we must hold The Catholike Church The militāt Church dispersed ouer the face of the earth The Catholik Church The militant Church in which alone one baptisme may be wholesomelie obtayned The one incorrupt Catholike Church The militant Church in which by imposition of handes the holy Ghost is giuen The only Catholike Church The Church in which good and euill be as chaffe and corne The Catholike Church The Church in which the sacrifice of bread and wine in faith and charity ceaseth not to be offered throughout the vniuersal world The holie Catholike Church But to presse you no further with the testimonies of men was the Sonne of God absurd when he sayd Other sheep● I haue that are not of this fold thē also I must bring they shall heare my voyce there shal be made one fold one Pastour Who were these other sheep but either Predestinate or many of them at least To what Fold were they brought Without doubt to Christs visible to Christs militāt to Christs Cath. Church for to no other would he bring them no other is his fold no other his one and that singular one of which he is chiefe and supreme Pastour Therfore not your inuisible but the visible and militant is the true Catholike Church of IESVS Christ Neyther are the Predestinate as you pretend before they be called mēbers of his Church because this is the oracle of Truth They are not of my fold So much by the way for this Now that you may cease your wrangling and stick no longer in ambiguity of tearmes I tell you once agayne that I speake not of your Catholike and Inuisible but of that militant Church which we are bound to obey and heare that of whose Communion we ought to be that of which Christ sayd di● Ecclesiae Tell the Church What hold you of this I● this Church visible or no M. WALKER I distinguish That Church may be two wayes considered either in regard of her outward men outward duties of Christianitie outward preaching of the Word and administration of the sacraments and so it is visible Or in respect of the inward election inward faith and spirituall graces and so it is inuisible A Catholike Gentleman Reserue your distinctions vntill you neede them and now answere directly to the Question M. SMITH Aske me any question and try whether I will vse any such tergiuersation What is your Conscience so horride or cause so bad as you dare neuer giue a direct answere M. WALKER I answere as I belieue M. SMITH And doe you not belieue what your owne men teach concerning this poynt Doe they not teach that the Church which we ought to heare is visible Or may we heare an inuisible Doth not D. Whitaker define it by these markes to wit by the true preaching o● the word and the true administration of the Sacraments And although he addeth that the whole Essence of the Church consisteth in them yet he sayth that these markes signifie and denote a visible Church Now doe not you belieue as he doth Or are you afrayd to confesse that Church to be visible which he confesseth Man consisteth of an inuisible essence yet is a visible man so the Church may haue some inuisible dowries yet be a visible Church M. WALKER You wronge D. Whitaker He neuer taught that the whole Essence of the Church consisted in the true peaching of the word and administration of Sacraments M. SMITH I wrong him not He teacheth writeth and diuulgeth it in print though you wrong both your self and vs in making these digressions and picking euery occasion to run from the matter M. WALKER Dare you stand to this that M. Whitaker writeth it I haue b●th read him and studied him I am sure he hath no such matter M. SMITH His bookes are extant you studied thē sleightly or vnderstood them not I am sure he hath it M. WALKER Because I will not spend tyme in contesting with you let this be the issue before these Gentlemen let vs send for D. Whitakers workes and if I doe not shew that he doth proue against Bellarmine that the Catholike Church i● inuisible that this is a mayne poin● large lie disputed by him and a mayne controuersie betweene him and Bellarmine let me branded with the marke of a wilfull liar M. SMITH Will you still fly to the ambush of your hidden Church Shall I neuer bring you into the open field Haue I not sufficiently inculcated vnto you that my question is of the Church now militant on earth of that Church which we ought to heare and obey of that which M. Whitaker describeth by the marks before mentioned of that which your selfe distinguished to be partly visible partly inuisible And run you now back againe to your counterfait Catholike and wholy inuisible Church Are you so sodainly distracted of your wi●s as not only to forget what I had sayd but what your selfe had written immediatly before Yet perhaps I may mistake It proceeded not so much from the giddines of your braine as from the guiltines of your cōscience which mistrusting the vaine vnaduised chalenge you made would now like a cunning Cheater by foysting in these words guilefullie diuert it to a quite cōtrary purpose For I neuer denied that M. Whitaker forgeth an inuisible Catholique Church but I so often canuased you frō straying thither as cōmon sense might haue taught you to keep on your way stād to your tackling in mantaining the quarrell or saucie exception you tooke against me for saying that M. Whitaker placed the whole essence of the Church in the true preaching of the Word and true administration of the Sacraments This was that which then I sayd Against which you contested as before your words to deliuer the contestation truly as it was I must in part repeate againe leauing out that counterfait passage which you

of meer fraud so treacherously insert M. WALKER Well I am content to make this the very issue of our meeting And if M Whitaker affirme any such thing let me be branded with the marke of a willfull liar impostor and false Prophet But if I shew the cōtrary out of his owne writings then shall you cōfesse your selfe a forger a falsifier an impostor a Priest of Baal The gentlemen all confessed this was faire play desired it might be soc Wherupon M. Smith as M. Walker writeth began to drawbacke shewed himselfe vnwilling much affraid to hazard his credit so quickly would gladly haue left this poynt fallen into another M. SMITH How little I was affraid to hazard my credit in that matter the standers by at that tyme can witnesse and the euidences I am now to bring out of M. Whitaker shall manifestly declare for he supposing that wheresoeuer the Word is trulie preached there it is heard there it is belieued and conserued and there it fructifieth in the hearts of some expresly auerreth of the markes afore mentioned 1. We ascribe these properties to the Church which comprise the true nature of the Church whose presence make the Church and their absence marre or destroy the Church But if they comprehend the true nature of the Church without which it cannot stand they contayne not the accidentall but the essentiall nature If the essentiall Nature the essence yf the essence the whole essence because it is indiuisible they must comprehēd it whole or not at all it cannot be comprehended in part because it hath no parts 2. He teacheth that the pure preaching of the Word is the cause of the Church c. Then as the cause produceth her effect so truth doth constitute the Church and is cause therof Besides he often affirmeth that though this cause be more hidden to vs yet it is more knowne in nature more knowne in it selfe then the Church where he vndoubtedly speaketh not of the efficient but of the formall cause And who is so meane a student as not to knowe that the formall cause of a thing is the chiefe principall and formall essence of that whose cause it is 3. D. Whitaker holdeth that to be the essence of the Church which he doth comprehend in the definition of the Church as you very impertinently vrge against me and yet the description he maketh by these markes I now handle he plainly tearmeth a definition of the Church in his answere to M. Campian saying This definition engendred in the natiue and inward principles of the thing it selfe which wee define thou shalt neuer be able to ouerthrow Againe in another place speaking of the same markes he sayeth Those things which define those denote and signifie the Church c. So what a Horse what a Lion what an Eagle is by their definition it is knowne Therfore as the definition of an Horse of a Lion of an Eagle contayne their whole essence so the aforsayd marks which define the Church contayne the whole essence and nature of the Church By these three Arguments so stronge as M. Walker is not able to answere them so cleere as he cannot delude them the truth of my assertion is irreproueably confirmed he by his owne challeng and engagement is openly conuinced to be a wilfull liar a forger an impostor a false prophet and a Priest of Baal for such he must be chronicled for such entitled and whatsoeuer heerafter he shall say or write with that note of infamie must be all discarded Euen such is that which heere he writeth immediatly after M. WALKER Gentlemen it is true that D. Whitaker maintaines that the Word trulie preached and the Sacraments rightly administred are the certaine and infallible notes and markes by which euery true particular Church may be discerned to be Christs true Church and you know that the markes of a thinge differ from the essence and substance of it as the signe hanging at the dore of a Tauerne disters from the Tauerne it selfe and the habit and cowle of a Monke or Friar which is the marke of his Order differs from the Monke himselfe c. M. SMITH Where were your wits where was your iudgment where the reading of you Cantabrigian Professors when you wrote this at randome of their doctrine For the signe of a Tauerne the habit of a monke are ou ward extrinsecall signes those of M. Whitakers ●●c●et internall yours only knowne to the eye of sēse his to the vnderstāding eye of faith yours separable his altogeather inseparable yours may be changed or taken away without hurt or annoiance of the subiects they designe his cannot be remoued without destruction of the Church yours are not so much as accidentall qualities originallie springing from the essence of the things but voluntary signes instituted as the Logitians say to signifie at the will only and pleasure of man M. Whitakers are most true and as he calleth them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 proprietates essentiall properties essentiall markes grafted in the inward principles of the Church it selfe so little conuersant are you in the monuments of your Maister Besides you do not only write thus opposit vnto him but most childishly also contradict your self tearming these notes of M. Whitaker certaine and infallible and yet comparing them with mutable and vncertaine signes which only signifie at mans appoyntment For an Iuye bush is not alwaies an infallible signe of a Tauerne nor the habit of a Friar an infallible marke of him as the Tragicall murders which no Friars but bloudy Homicides haue committed in Friars weedes and many other Comedies can tell you But because you are so ignorant as not to knowe your selfe what to say or what your owne men teach concerning this poynt let me examine you about another touching the Infallibilitie of the Church What hold you May the whole militant Church on earth erre or noe M. WALKER This is a captious and ambiguous question cannot directly in one word negatiue or affirmatiue be answered vnto M. SMITH No D. Reynolds answereth affirmatiuely that it may erre This is one of his Theses publickly defended in the Vniuersitie of Oxford but you thinke all things captious because you are set to cauill and willing to decline the disputation we haue in hand M. WALKER Nay I s●y it is captious and ambiguous because in some respect it may e●re in others it cannot If we consider it according to her Militancie Weaknes and Imperfections of men who are lyars so wee tr●●e say it may erre If we consider it according to the direction of Gods holy Spirit the assistance of Christ his Prophets and Apostles as it is guyded by their doctrine cleaueth close to the Scripture and swarueth not from them soe long we teach that it is infallible and cannot erre M. SMITH But thus euerie Hereticall Assemblie is also infallible Thus the Iewes Turkes Infidels Diuells