to stand on but meer Misinterpretations and Glosses which indeed merit not so much as very name of Topicks 33. You say 4. Heathenism if our Principle hold will be Answer to an Obiection taken from Heathenism proued the safest way to Saluation For some of you Catholicks agree That many of them may be saued without any explicite knowledge had of Christ But they deny you can be saued by it Answ Here the old fallacy is on foot again And à pretty Antilogy with it For if the Heathens deny we can be saued by an explicite knowledge of Christ They must certainly haue some explicite knowledge of him Or if they haue no such explicite knowledge How can they deny Saluation to vs by Christ They cannot deny what they neuer heard off But let this pass I Answer 2. You are quite besides the Question and once more out of our Principle For you ioine together two opinions only viz. what the Heathens and some Catholicks hold in order to the Saluation of such Aliens And We in the contest with you make vse of à Doctrin which all the Orthodox Churches on earth haue euer taught This is more certain than any opinion can be and only in order to the inference about the Saluation of Catholicks Add your opinion to it 3. After you haue said all you only conclude thus much that à Heathen may be saued without any explicite knowledge of Christ The Concession so far is good vpon the Opinion of Catholick Doctors but doth it follow from hence that so much only is true or that no more Doctrin is Safe This you ought to infer or you proue nothing 34. Page 623. You only tell vs what his Lordship saies viz. That the Roman Church and the Church of England are but two distinct members of the Catholick Church spread ouer the face of the Sectaries own Catholicks à part of the Catholick earth Obserue good Reader our Aduersaries both here and els where often make vs à part at least of the Church Catholick Vpon that Concession I argue ad Hominem they are certainly to talk no more of any danger of damnation for want of Faith but grant freely we may be saued or in real Truth They surpass Mahomet in malice For if Mahomet who held Moses and Christ two great Prophets neuer dared to damn those millions of Mahomet more fauourable then Sectaries souls that belieued in them And had liued from Moses vntil the wicked man set forth his Alcoran much less can these men who hold vs Christians and part of the Catholick Church damn those innumerable professors of this great moral body for want of Faith who haue been since the. 5. or 6. age vntil Luther appeared in the world You next put vs to our proofs If we can proue that the Roman Church is properly the Catholick Church it Self we are to Speak out c. Sr though we are not to proue that we keep in the Kings high way where the world has seen vs so many Ages But might most iustly force you late straglers to proue you haue taken à better path Yet what you desire is so amply euinced in the other Treatise vpon seueral Occasions chiefly Disc 3. C. 1. 2. 3. That none of you hitherto haue dared to Answer The proof briefly is reduced to this plain Discourse Three dayes before Luther shamefully deserted the Roman Catholick Communion there was à true visible Church on earth but that only was the Roman Catholick Church for all other Societies name which you will were erroneous and heretical The Roman the only Catholick Church Ergo the Roman Church or none for Protestants were not then in the world was the true Faithful Orthodox Church of Christ And is so Still after our Sectaries late Reuolt from it 35. You Cloy our ears again with his Lordships seuere Sentence concerning the Leaders of our Church who refuse to hear Her Instruction And his Charity extend's so far as to think them all lost souls though many that succeed them in these Errours without obstinacy may be saued Answ His Lordship neither is nor was nor Shall euer be the Iudge of the liuing and the Dead Therefore we little heed his heauy Doom The man has his already But say I beseech you Where was the Church before Luther whose Instruction the Catholick Leaders refused to hear was it your English Church Alas it was à thing neuer heard of in those Dayes Was it the Church of Arians Pelagians and such like comdemned Hereticks must our Leaders be damned for not hearing these No certainly Say then for Gods sake A question Proposed Concerning The Church Catholick where was the Church they should haue haue harken'd to and refused to hear Here Sr we vrge you may we vse your own Phrase to speak out to pronounce and proue Again How dare you with any Conscience suppose that so many learned most pious and virtuous Prelates Pastors Doctors Religious went against their own Consciences to lead Themselues and millions of Souls into Perdition whereof innumerable gaue all they had to the poor some built Churches Others founded Monasteries others Vniuersities Others who might haue liued like Princes in the world shut themselues vp in Cells to gain Heauen at last yet these for sooth must be Misleaders with you And damn themselues and whole Millions for nothing The Diuel in Hell hath not Desperate Doctrin malice enough to harbour such à thought And I verily perswade my self that neither the Bishop that 's gone nor you Sr when you wrote your Account where so far infatuated as to Iudge it probable Your Papers speak not alwaies your own Consciences 36. You Still run on with nothing Many Say you hold A meer importinency the Foundation it self Doctrinally who hold it not sauingly Most true A meer imporâ—inency But the fault is not in the Doctrin but in their want of complying And what 's this to our present purpose whilst we only Assert with you That Catholick Religion can saue vs If our liues be answerable to it 37. You say again Page 624. Our Leaders are lost because they most dangerously withhold from others the plain and vndoubted word of God And therefore deserue the same Anathema which S. Paul Pronounces against an Angel in case he teach any other Doctrin Answ Do you speak in earnest Good Sr Fauour me so far That you and I may debate this one point and end it by plain Scripture If you show me vpon sound Principles indeed That we teach any Doctrin Contrary to the plain word of God I am gained to your side And shall acknowledge you Conquerour But no fear of this You Say moreouer if you Proue vs guilty of any gross dangerous and damnable Errour That will be aboundantly sufficient to your purpose that Our's cannot possibly be any safe way to saluation Conditional Propositions here insignificant Answ Very right indeed But these Ifs end no Controuersies
worse than à Paralogism or any captious way of reasoning for it tend's to non-sense vnless the main Supposition be proued to wit That the Roman Apostolical Catholick Church once certainly pure in Doctrin has or Can decline from her Purity in afrer ages Mr Stilling knowes well that Catholicks who hold their Church infallible make the receding from its Purity à thing impossible How sensles then is it in this place where that Question of Infallibility is not handled first to suppose our Church fallen off from its old Doctrin and then to tell vs the Fathers Encomiums haue Still that 's Supposed which should be Proued nothing to do with it in this present state I argue thus and Mr Stilling P. 314. seem's to approue it Vpon the Supposition that the Roman Catholick Church has not swerued nor can swerue from it's first pure Doctrin The Fathers Elogiums are in this age as due to it as in any other But the Supposition must stand firmly built as you shall see hereafter vpon sure grounds and Principles But contrariwise this way of arguing is Non-sense I 'le suppose vpon no grounds the Roman Catholick Church to haue erred and then I 'le do an open iniustice and deny it the due Commendations giuen by the Fathers It is iust as if one should say I 'le suppose à man hitherto reputed honest to be à thief and then I 'le deny him iustice and hang him vp 4. I say vpon no Grounds And to proue my Assertion ask With what Church then visible in the world were Christians obliged to Communicate when all see S. Hierome will haue them to Communicate with some Church Mr Stilling Answers with the Catholick Church Very Good I Ask again whether the Roman Church and all other Churches vnited in Faith with it were rightly called the true Catholick Church Grant this you yeild the cause And Confess that Christians were then obliged to be in vnion with the Roman Catholick Church Contrariwise if you deny that to haue been then the true Church you are cast vpon No other Church Catholick but the Roman endless difficulties and here is one which cannot be solued Vpon the denial you Sr are obliged to denote or name an other Catholick Church distinct from the Roman more pure in Doctrin at that time than She was And that not only the Romans but all others were Aliens and Prophane who eate not the lambe or communicated not in faith with your new found fancied Church in the aire I say fancied for to point at such à Church on earth is as impossible as to proue known condemned Hereticks to be good Catholicks whereof see more in the other Treatise Disc 3. c. 1. 5. Mr Stilling to shift off the difficuIty will perhaps say When S. Hierome wrote This The Roman Church was truly Orthodox and that He accounted all Aliens and Prophane who communicated not with it Most true Doctrin But see what followes Be pleased to fall lower to the third or fourth Age after S. Hierome There was then I hope à Catholick Church in the world wherwith Christians Communicated in Faith but most euidently there was not any Tâ—en reputed Orthodox if we exclude the Roman from being so For all other Societies nameable In the ages after S. Hierome no Church Orthodox but the Roman though called Christians were professed Hereticks With these no man was obliged to communicate Therefore all were either bound to Communicate with the Roman Catholick Church or with no Church at all Hence I infer that the Fathers Elogium's giuen to the Roman Catholick Church were euer most iustly due not once only during the Primitiue times but now also and in all Ages Withall I assert That Mr Stilling denying this Truth speak's his own fancy without proof or the least appearance of any probable Principle And he will be as wholly vnprincipled if I first suppose as I may if my Creed be true That there is now at this very houre à true Catholick Church on earth and should next demand where that Church is in whose vnion I must liue and dye Will He pitch think ye vpon an vnion with the Arians Graecians Abyssins Anabaptists Protestants or Quakers Light where he pleaseth he can only vent his fancy without Proof or Principle Now cast as it were this fancy into à ballance with those most weighty significant Testimonies of ancient Fathers who positiuely press for communion with the Roman Catholick Church and you will see à strange vneauen Parallel conceited whimsyes And strong reasonable Arguments laid together Yet wonder nothing for weak fancy is the strongest Aduersary Catholick Religion hath S. Cyprians Testimony proposed 6. You haue yet an other Authority grosly misvsed by Mr Stilling Page 315. And t' is à known Passage of S. Cyprian in his 55. Epistle to Cornelius where he complain's of certain factious Schismaticks who dared to sail to the chair of S. Peter and the Principal Church from whence Priestly vnity had its Origen and carry letters from Prophane and Schismatical persons Nec cogitare eos esse Remons c. not thinking them to be the Romans whose Faith the Apostle commended ad quos perfidiae haebere non possit accessum to whom falshood vntruth vnfaithfulnes cannot haue Access Thus S. Cyprian And I put much force in those words Eos esse Romanos Those who then liued to be the Romans prophetically commended by the Apostle which words taken in an obuious sense argue that true Faith should neuer part from the See of Rome But Mr Stilling conceal's this force and translates Not considering that the Romans c. No less energy lies in the other following words To whom vnfaithfulnes can haue no Access which seem to exclude à possibility of falshood from the Roman Church 7. Now listen à little to four strange Glosses laid vpon this one Text. Three of them are the Bishops and one Mr Stilling Vain Glosses Laid vpon The Testimony laies claim to The Bishops saies first Perfidia can hardly stand here for errour in Faith And why not my Lord He Answers It properly signifies malicious falshood in matter of Trust or in fact against the Discipline And gouerment of the Church And I say it as properly signifies Vnfaithfulnes or Vntruth And therefore excludes errour in Faith from the Romans yea it must haue this sense here because it s opposed to the Faith of the Romans so much commended by the Apostle which was true Christian Faith Perfidia therefore fignifies the quite contrary that is errour in Faith But grant the sense to be as the Bishop glosseth it excludes at least from the Romans to whom S. Cyprian wrote à Possibility of doing any thing against the Discipline and Gouerment of the Church or of being maliciously false in Matter of Trust If this be so much more are they secured by virtue of these words Ad quos persidia non possit habere accessum from à possibility of erring in Faith for
any firm Belief or to ground so much Moral certainty of à Christian Truth as excludes à possibility of doubting 10. You will Ask what then is there which may raise these two Aduersaries from that low degree of meer Opining to à higher degree of certainty I shall fully Answer the Question in the next Discourse Here I say in à word No Principle can do this But one only which the Sectary want's And the Catholick has to rely on which is the Tradition the Voice and open declared Iudgement of Christs Catholick Church here on earth This faithful Oracle raises vs from the supposed State of our guessing Probably to the highest degree of not only Moral but also of Infallible certainty Though now we press not that against our Aduersaries The Sectary Therefore who disdain's to learn of this Oracle what Christian Truths are shall neuer come to his Moral certainty though the Supposition already made of Authorities equal stood in vigour Iudge then I beseech you How desperate his Cause is now How remote from all such certainty De facto whether he impugn's our Doctrin or plead's for his own opinions when he hath nothing to rely on but only à few dark and dubious Passages of some ancient Fathers 11. I say dubious Passages for in Truth if so much they are no more And Therefore though we haue hitherto supposed Authorities euenly laid on both sides To Show that nothing What the Sectary can Plead help 's the Sectary out of his labyrinth yet now I must tell the Story as t' is All he has in this world to plead comes only to à few misinterpreted Authorities And with such poor Gleanings Churchless man as He is he thinks to Out-braue à whole Church To decry Tradition to vnsense the Fathers to rob vs of our right And finally to throw vs out of the Possession of those ancient Christian Truths which both we and our Ancestors haue professed age after age without Alteration What think ye Haue à few rack't and tortured Sentences Add to them as many Cauils as many Criticisms as you please force enough to do such wonders Can these gleanings misinterpreted as you haue seen better inform vs of the ancient Primitiue Truths than the General voice or vniuersal consent of à whole Church now in being It is improbable Grant therefore which I do On what Principle the Catholick Stand's not That we know not too well the sense of one Theoderet or of à Tertullian c. The Catholick cleares his Doctrin And drawes it from surer Principles viz. From the voice and open declared Iudgement of his Church And most deseruedly look's on the Sectaries attempt as highly improbable who will needs know what Doctrin we are to hold now or was anciently held amongst Christians by à Fathers Testimony when the very sense is supposed doubtful And lies in obscurity That is He will know more than can be known He will force light out of darkness And deriâ—â— the moral certainty of his Doctrin from meer doubtful Principles which is impossible And thus these men proceed in all other Controuersies though Conscious that à whole ample Church decries their Doctrin as false And the open abuse of Fathers also O saith the Sectary I little regard what the Church decries Ansâ— And much less do I regard what you cry against it When the whole strength of your Clamours vltimatly resolued comes to no more but to fancied Glosses laid vpon ambiguous Authorities What in God's name would you be at What can you pretend The Church opposed to Sectaries Clamours or intend Shall clamours Think ye and your few clouded Testimonies force me to leaue my ancient Faith when I euidently know That the Church I liue in call's louder on me and more rationally command's me to Belieue as I doe This audible known voice of Christ's Church dull's your clamours infinitly Outweigh's your Glosses your guesses And the doubtful Sentiment of any priuate Father 12. The Sectary may reply I haue now supposed without Proof the Fathers abused by him whereas if the Supposition hold's it s only doubtful whether it be so or no. Answ Thus much is only supposed doubtful That neither of vs can learn by words precisely obscure what Doctrin to embrace or what to reiect Before à surer Oracle speak's and decide the Controuersy Catholicks say this Oracle is the Church The Protestant who has no Church to recurr to stand's trifling with his obscure Passages hoping at last to make something of nothing to hammer out of dark sentences the Clear Moral certainty of his new Doctrin Though contrary to the whole Church And thus He abuseth both Fathers and reason also Because as I said iust now A doubtful Principle yeilds not so much certainty If He say 3. His quoted Authorities are sufficiently clear to ground the Moral certainty of his Doctrin against the Church it is à desperate improbable Speech For Moral certainty which should pass as an vncontradicted truth most euidently loseth that force when à whole Church manifestly contradict's it But hereof enough is Said in the other Treatise Disc 1. C. 6. n. 3. 13. You will ask perhaps What is to be done if we meet with à Father so clear and express against Church-Doctrin that he cannot possibly be brought to à Catholick sense I Answer A doubt proposed and solued Suppose thus much which I think was neuer yet heard of in any Contest betwixt the Protestant and Catholick I 'le absolutly deny the Authority and adhere to Church-Doctrin For as the whole body is greater than à part so the iudgement of à whole Church is the stronger Principle here and ought in reason to regulate and bear sway before the sentiment of any priuate man who by weaknes or inaduertancy may slip aside into Errour I say through weaknes or incogitancy for if he obstinately oppose the Church He is no Father in that But an Heretick 14. Whoeuer reflects well on what is noted already will see I hope How neer we are to an End of disputes with Protestants if the Contest arise from the Authority of Fathers Here is the Ground of what I am to Say All the Authorities which can What Authorities can be quoted be quoted in Points now Controuerted are either plain or esteemed plain for Catholick Doctrin both by the learned of our Church and Sectaries also As is amply proued aboue Or Contrariwise are at most supposed doubtful I Assert it boldly the Sectary has not one plain Testimony for him in this debated Matter of Transubstantiation And if one or two were granted plain that 's nothing to contrast with à whole Church and innumerable other Fathers 15. Hence I Discourse In case Authorities be Clear for Catholick Doctrin the Sectary opposes vs improbably if he seek to establish his Nouelties vpon à Principle which plainly teaches what we teach And quite ruin's his contrary Opinions If the Authority be doubtful I haue said enough already
it If no Councils nor Tradition support it It has no Principled Doctrin If no Principled Doctrin No Moral certainty If no Moral certainty for meer groundles Glosses cannot giue Any against all the Powerful Motiues of our Church there is no Probability in it If no Probability The whole Reformation must be reduced to fancy only There we found it And there leaue it 11. Now if any except against our casting off Protestancy from the meanest degree of Probability induced to Iudge otherwise vpon this ground That many learned men defend it I haue Answered aboue Meer Probability is insufficient to support Christian Truths Here I both answer and Ask. 2. where were the many learned Defenders of this new Faith when one Luther stood vp alone against the whole Christian world And first broached his Protestancy If at that time there was no Authority nor reason for the Nouelty Process of time hath gained it neither Look then into its Rise or First beginning you 'l find it vnsound at the bottom yea vtterly improbable vpon this certain Principle That the Singular Doctrin of one disgusted Rebel against à whole Church and Thousands more pious and learned then Himselfe can merit no Belief but deserues what it has to be Anathematized 12. We must yet insist à little vpon this Point And lay forth the Vanity of our Aduersaries pretence to Probability which done you shall see controuersies are ended Sectaries May say Protestancy improbable If their own Authority makes not Protestancy Morally certain it cannot but raise it to à high degree of Probability We deny this And shall presently Ask why their Authority more aduanceth this Religion to Probability than the meer Authority of Arians bring 's Arianism to Probability At present we do not only oppose the voice and vote of the Roman Catholick Church against this Plea But the Authority also of Graecians Abyssins and all other called Christians who with one vnanimous Consent decry Protestancy as improbable Compare therefore votes with votes Authority with Authority There is no Parallel For for one that defend's it you haue hundreds yea Thousands that Contradict the Nouelty Thus much is indisputably Euident if we precisely Consider Authority as it were in Abstracto or oppose the Votes of dissenting Parties against it But here is not all We must goe further And distinguish well between à bare Authority and a rational grounded Authority For this is an vndeniable Truth Reasonable Principles euer precede or are presupposed when Religion is pleaded for To the consequent Authority of those whether many or few that Teach or Profess it Hence all say If the first conuerted Iewes to Christianity Had not had most weighty Inducements proposed to reason before they deserted Iudaism and belieued in Christ The change had been most imprudent Nay all had been obliged as is proued in the 4. Chapter To hold on in that Profession still without Alteration So necessary it is to haue rational grounds laid firm in the Foundation of Religion before the Professors allow it either Moral certainty or so much as Probability Thus much premised 13. We draw Sectaries from all Self-Voting or further pleading by their own Authority And force them in this Contest if Sectaries drawn off their own Selfe voting Protestancy be defensible not to say but to proue by Principles distinct from their own bare votes These two Propositions 1. That God who is Truth it self And once laid his Truths the foundation of the Roman Catholick Church permitted that faithful Oracle to become Traiterous to teach Idolatry to tell the world loud Lies for à thousand yeares together And that all this happened when there was no other Orthodox Church on earth to vnbeguile Those poor deluded Christians The second Proposition to be proued is That these Millions of souls learned and vnlearned who firmly belieued this Church And dyed happily in it were All mad All Idolaters All besotted and seduced What the Sectary is to Prou◠by Fooleries And which is à Paradox aboue Expression That à knot of late vnknown Nouellists pretending to Reformation dare now attempt to teach men more learned than Themselues To make these supposed mad wise The Idolatrous Orthodox the besotted Reasonable The Seduced right in Faith again And that this was and is yet done vpon à meer proofles Supposition that we are mad and besotted which stand's on no Principles And for that reason is contradicted by the vast number of most knowing Catholicks And the whole Multitude of Christians Besides 14. When these two Propositions are made probable vpon good Principles Wee shall listen to our Sectaries Authority But if they fumble herein Only talk and proue nothing Wee reiect their vngrounded Authority And say The more votes they multiply without Proofs the less weight they haue You shall yet see how weightles Their Authority is might we here insist longer vpon one Matter of fact which ends all Controuersies In à word All know the great Controuersy between Protestants and Catholicks comes to this Whether they or we teach The difficulty proposed between Catholicks and Protestants Apostolical Doctrin Whether they or we lay forth the genuine sense of holy Scripture Neither Party saw or heard the Apostles Preach Neither pretend's now to Enthusiasms or priuate Reuelations concerning that Doctrin The whole cause therefore is to be tried and decided by Witnesses of foregoing Ages such Testimonies and Tradition must clear this Matter of fact A pretence to Scripture only without precedent lawful Pastors without Doctors without Witnesses teaching that sense and Doctrin which the one or other Party stand's for is here both vseles and impertinent If then The Protestant makes his Doctrin Apostolical His sense of Scripture Orthodox The Catholick replies Be pleased to giue in your last Euidence produce your Witnesses your Pastors And Doctors Four Ages since That taught as you teach And sensed Scripture as you sense it My Church add's the Catholick euidently demonstrates à continued succession of Her Pastors that taught as I belieue as shall be proued hereafter And shewes as clearly à Succesion of the same Doctrin and Faith with these Pastors Her Antiquity is vndoubted and her pleading Possession in preseruing the true Sense of Scripture and Apostolical Doctrin is as great as any King on earth can shew for the Possession of the Crown he weares Now saith the Catholick Wee examin your pedegree of Pastors and Doctors And after some few Ascents by à The first plead by Principles the others not Retrogradation come at last to the year 1517. There we find and most euidently à Luther or Caluin To be the first men in the world that professed Protestanism that interpreted Scripture as you interpret or owned your Religion With these late Runagates you must stop No man on earth can aduance or bring your Genealogy further Therefore to speak in the words of the Ancient Optatus Meliuitan Lib. 2. Contra Parmen At that time you were sons
and that this Resurrection is meant in divers passages of Scripture But they deny the Resurrection of the body after Death Ergo it will be the Safest to deny the article of the Resurrection Again Dissenting parties as Iewes Turcks and Sectaries agree with Catholicks that there is but one God Ergo by virtue of this Principle men will be bound to deny the Trinity Lastly Dissenting parties Agree fully with vs That Christ is man but Hereticks deny His Godhead Therefore it will be safest belieuing that Christ is meer man And not God Answer With much wearisomness do I read these more than pitiful improbable inferences Not one of them arises from Premises which lead in any thing like your Conclusion Reduce but Premises put which infer no Conclusion one to right Form one serues for all and you will see your folly Thus it is That Doctrin in which Catholicks and Hereticks agree is safe and true Doctrin Catholicks and Hereticks agree in this Doctrin that Christ is man but not man only ergo that is safe and true Doctrin Here is the utmost your Premises can infer And I grant all Christ is truly man So I grant the Doctrin of à Resurrection from sin of one God only to be most sound and Catholick But here is your grand mistake and open fallacy with it You seem to perswade the Reader that because Hereticks agree so far with the Church Therefore it is safe to deny what euer other Doctrin She maintains Sr She maintains the Truths now mentioned yet not only Those But many more And herein there is no Agreement consequently no good conclusion for you vpon any agreed Principle For thus much only followes from thence That so far as we Agree so far true Doctrin is taught Apply this to our present matter and all is plain You and we agree thus far that Saluation may be had in the Roman Catholick Religion Most true We dissent from you concerning the Charge of Superstitions An ather fallacy discouered and gross Errours imposed on vs from this you can infer no Conclusion against vs vpon the Principle of Agreement now Supposed in the other Doctrin of Saluation which goes on roundly without all contradiction I would say We agree about Saluation and that 's à Truth we differ in other points here we must dispute vpon other Grounds And lay that agreed on Principle aside for immediatly it lead's in no conclusion in such matters 31. Shall I now tell you where your whole Fallacy lies It lurk's in that pretty Term Safest For you thought to infuse into it this Sense So much Doctrin as we and Hereticks agree in is only the Safest But no more As if we Catholicks held what euer other Tenet is out of the compass of that agreed-on Doctrin implies both Vnsafety and Vncertainty You grosly mistake We hold euery other Point of Catholick Religion wherin you and we dissent wholly as Safe and certain as That is we both agree in For I tell you once more our Safety and certainty depend not vpon any Hereticks consent If then you would rack That Principle we and Arians agree to this unto ward sense So much Doctrin The Principle of Agreement abused precisely is the safest we agree in And no more Or That our maintaining that agreed-on Doctrin to be safe excludes other Catholick verities from being So Wee neither agree with the Arian nor any other Heterodox But utterly disclaim The Principle and consequently say you can draw no Conclusion at all from it against vs. Sense the Principle and all is clear Hereticks and we agree That Christ is man That sense contains certain Doctrin O but the meaning may be He is so purely man that he is not God Giue it this sense we agree not but reject the Principle as Heretical which therefore inferr's nothing like à conclusion against vs. All is contrary in the other agreed on Principle Concerning the Saluation of Catholicks For that as I said now Though it serue not immediatly to end other debates touching Purgatory Praâ—ing to Saints c. yet it drawes with it à long train of notable consequences For if we may be saued we haue true Faith in our Church true Hope true Chatity true Repentance And what euer is necessary to attain saluation More of Mr. Stillingfleets Mistakes briefly discouered 32. I 'le only briefly hint all the rest which followes from your Page 623. to the end of the Chapter To touch them is enough to take off the little strength they haue You ask first Why you ought to belieue that which both Parties agree in I Answer because you must belieue in some Church which is either your own or Two questions answered the Roman Catholick Or Both Both grant the Catholick may be saued what would you haue more You Ask again If the consenting parties may agree in à falshood what euidence haue you but that the agreed on Principle is one of those Falshoods I haue answered 1. If the Principle bee supposed false you might haue roundly said so at the beginning and spared all your superfluous labour spent to no purpose in this fourth Chapter I Answered 2. The true Church euen when Protestants consent to it cannot Agree in à falshood for the true Church speaks truth And He or They who side with it cannot swerue from truth in that You say 3. It ought to be à safe Principle indeed and no vncertain Topical Argument which men should venture their souls vpon Answ If men must be saued in the true Church be it yet where you will And in this we All agree none can in conscience call the Doctrin of it Topical or vncertain as shall be proued afterward In the mean while Say I beseech you Church Doctrin Miscalled Topical what safer Principle haue you to rely on in this weightly matter of Saluation which will not be more Topical Than that is which the true Church teaches And you approue You know or should know there was neuer any true Church since Christianity began which denied Saluation to the Romam Catholick Nay all Orthodox Christians euer granted it You side with all these Orthodox Christians and what greater Authority can there be on earth Yet this Principle must be called by you Topical and vncertain Say then what 's more certain Will you leave the voice and vote of all Orthodox Professors and run to Scripture Alas The whole book Saith no where so much as seemingly That you Protestants are in the Safe way of Saluation And we Catholicks not What euer Argument therefore is drawn from Scripture will be à lesse satisfactory Principle yea none at all And infinitly more Topical in order to saue you Than what the church teaches and you hold with it is to save vs. Now if you let goe this Principle of plain Scripture as you must or I 'le vrge you lo produce that plain Text which saues you and Damn's Catholicks you haue nothing left
Fathers or of any man now liuing Again What if most of those ancient Writings be lost many certainly are we are at à Stand. But finally what if doubts arise concerning the sense of those few preserued copies yet extant can Sectaries Glosses or ours either determin what 's right Orthodox Doctrin by them No. Therefore By what means one may come to the primitiue Doctrin as I said aboue no man can come to à full exact and satisfactory knowledge of the Primitiue Truths but by the voice and Tradition of the present Church Reiect this voice of the present Church we are cast into darkness we may dispute long but end nothing Now because it lies not in my way to Treat of that excellent Rule of Tradition learnedly handled by others I 'le giue you three Conuincing reasons And proue my Assertion viz. That the Roman vniuersal Church once Orthodox neuer changed the Primitiue Doctrin To show this Two certain Principles are to be reflected on 6. First God had alwaies an Orthodox Church on earth founded by Christ which was and is pure without mixture at least of notorious damnable Errours and which neuer taught An Argument prouing the Roman Catholick Church stil pure in Doctrin Christians any shameful false Doctrin for had it done so in any Age it had then ceased Eo ipso to be Christ's pure Church The 2. Principle Protestants confess and t' is à certain truth that the Roman Catholick Church continued Orthodox without Notable errour for the first three or four Centuries 7. Hence I argue If this Church once pure abandoned Christ's Doctrin in after Ages or forged new Articles of faith contrary to the Primitiue verities that Change was Notorious shameful and damnable as we shall see presently But it is not possible that She euer made such à shameful Notorious change And here is my Reason Had She done so Christ in that Age when this supposed Alteration began would haue had no Orthodox Church on earth free from gross and culpable Errour and Consequently his own pure Church would wholly haue been abolished 8. You will Ask how I proue this I Answer most euidently Begin if you please from the third Age when the Roman Church was pure And descend to Luthers dayes you will find all the known Societies of men called Christians to haue been either Orthodox Belieuers Or grosly erring in Faith yea plain condemned Hereticks And so reckoned of by Protestants Such were the Arians Nestorians Pelagians Monothelits Donatists c. And all others nameable excepting Roman Catholicks But those gross erring men euidently taught not Christs pure One reason vrged Doctrin without notable Errour much less constituted either à Part or the whole Orthodox Church which Christ established in truth Therefore if the Roman Catholick Church went to wrack also if She erred notoriously with these known erring Societies the Orthodoxism and Purity of the whole Church ceased to be in the world And this is impossible 9. Here in à word is all I would say Christ had euer à Church Entierly pure on earth for he founded one pure which should alwaies continue in that integrity laid in Her very foundation But no errour was laid in the foundations of the Roman Catholick Church once Confessedly pure therefore no notorious Errour stained it in after Ages Or if any such errour fouled that once fair Spouse of Christ this Sequele is euident There was at that time no pure Church in Being vnless our Nouellists please and perhaps they may do so in time to make Arians Donatists and such à rabble of men more Orthodox Christians than their own Progenitors were and all the Roman Catholicks are now the whole world ouer 10. You see I insist vpon notorious Errours And do so on set Why wee insist vpon Notorious errours purpose to preuent à Reply of some newer Sectaries who say the Church of Rome hath indeed Her Errours But not fundamental or destructiue of Saluation And will you know the reason of this trifling Here it is If they say She was not Orthodox in fundamentals there was no true Church in being for à thousand years before Luther and this no Christian dare Assert And if they make her Orthodox in euery Article She taught both Heresy and Schism fall's shamefully vpon Protestants Who dare not grant they abandonned à Church Entierly pure and blamless when they left it Hence à middle way was wisely or rather most simply thought of Our Church forsooth must be what Protestants please partly true viz. in à few Fundamentals and partly false in other Matters of less concern which these men elected by God were to reform and tell exactly what was amiss or how far it hath erred c. And therefore name themselues the Reformed Church Well Let this whimsy pass largely refuted in the other Treatise and in passing take notice of à pitifull Church indeed which Christ had by these mens own Confession ten whole ages before Luther It was à meer deformed Monster made vp of Linzy wolzy stuff of tawny Colours of something and nothing in à word of Truth and Falshood But here is not all 11. I am to proue much more if Protestants Principles stand firm viz. That neither we nor they had any Orthodox Church in fundamentals before Luther and Consequently no true Church was in being for ten whole Ages Now most euidently Sectaries had nothing like à Church for they were not in the world And it is as euident if their Charge hold good against our Church it had bin much better neuer to haue appeared than to see it turned into so many vgly shapes into such an vnfashioned Monster as these new men make it In à word this ancient Catholick Society if Sectaries say right and Mark euer the Supposition erred notoriouslly in the very fundamentals of Faith and Faith totally ruined in Sectaries Principles neither belieued in Christ nor Creed and therefore there was no Orthodox Church before Luther nor yet is to this day If I euidence not this vpon the supposition now made neuer Credit me here after To doe it please to obserue that by à fundamental Errour in Faith I vnderstand à Doctrin which if falsly taught contrary to Christs verities is as damnable to those who teach it as the Arians errours are at this day damnable to Arians Hence I Argue 12. What euer Society of men forges new Articles of Faith contrary to the Primitiue Doctrin or tell 's the world à loud lye that God reuealed such things as he neuer reuealed but vtterly The Assertion manifestly proued disowns and yet execrat's And more ouer obliges all Christians after à sufficient proposal to belieue such falsities vpon Diuine Reuelation and this vnder pain of damnation doth open iniury to Gods Infinite verity Assert's that which Eternal Truth neuer taught And therefore sins damnably or err's in the fundamentals of Faith But Protestants say the Roman Catholick Church long before Luther did so
our Church hath erred but in one only Matter of Christian belief She is Traiterous disloyal to Christ and can be belieued in nothing To proue The Church is traiterous if false in one Article the Assertion Suppose an Embassadour sent to à forraign state with this deep Charge that he vtter nothing in his Princes name but so much only as he is commissioned to speak Suppose again the man declares some few truths to the state as his Lord commanded But withall forges twenty other vntruths on his own head and stifly affirm's his order is to deliuer all he saith in his Masters name Would not such à man think ye be à Traitour vpon à double account First because he exceed's the bounds of his Commission and deliuers that he had no order for But chiefly because he speaks vast falsities wholly Contrary to his iudgement who sent him 2. The Application in easy The first Teachers of the Gospel were legates sent from God to à great State the whole world For in omnem terram exâ—uit sonus eorum They taught euery where and well for some short time our Christian Verities as the Prince who sent them Commanded But their Successors the Pastors and Doctors of the Roman Catholick Church in after Ages had Say Sectaries the ill luck to miscarry to turn Traitours for besides à few fundamental Truths vpheld no man knowes how They did not only exceed their commission in deliuering Doctrin to all Nations which Christ their Master neuer allowed of but more ouer forged of their own heads twenty vntruths Purgatory Praying to Saints Transubslantiation c. And spake all in their Princes name Said also they had Commission from Christ to teach so This fact if the Charge be true is Treasonable they iniured Christ And consequently not Orthodox and his Verities and betrayed their trust But à Church so perfidious cannot be Orthodox Therefore if Sectaries do not Calumniate Christ had no Orthodox Church in the world before Luther which I intended to proue and Consequently Protestants are yet no true Church at all 3. I say moreouer If the Roman Catholick Church hath taught false Doctrin but in one onely Matter of Christian belief She can be belieued in nothing yea I may rationally suspect her false in all She teaches Iust so it is If the book of Scripture deliuer's one Doctrin false which Christians now belieue I cannot credit it in any thing The reason is One and the same Motiue of my belief duely and equally applied euer moues to an equal Assent or to None at all For example I belieue Christ dyed for vs because Gods word saies so Here is the Motiue of my Assent I belieue also that he ascended into Heauen because the same word of God speaks it here is the same Motiue Imagin now by à supposed impossibility that this latter Article A Church false in one Article merits no beliefe is Gods word but false I cannot belieue our Sauiours Death vpon the Motiue of God's word For if this word be false and once deceiue it may as easily be false and deceiue me twice And there is no possible means to quit me of my errour Because whoeuer endeauours to do that is of less Authority than God's word which is now supposed to deceiue me If therefore the First Verity can reueal an vntruth none can belieue either man or Angel speaking of the high Mysteries of our Faith and Consequently All must still remain in Errour 4. Apply this Discourse to the Roman Catholick Church which pretend's at least I say no more yet to be Gods Oracle and to speak in His name She speaking in his name assures me that Infants are to be Baptized I belieue Her vpon her word She also tells me there is à Purgatory but we must now suppose with Sectaries it is à great vntruth if so I cannot possibly belieue Her in the other Doctrin of Infant Baptism For if she deceiues me once She may well do it again and which is to be noted There is no means left vnder Heauen to vnbeguile me or to draw me out of my supposed Errour for who euer attempts to do that is of less Authority than my Church which is supposed to teach to err in Her teaching and stifly to maintain the Errour Scripture cannot help here vnless it be clear vpon an indubitable Principle that the sense of it and Doctrin of my Church can differ in points of Faith which must be proued and not Supposed If Fathers be alleaged Seemingly contrary to this known Doctrin my duty is to explicate them and rather to draw the Fathers to what the Church teaches than to renounce Her Authority and adhere to the dubious and yet vnknown Sense of any Father 5. Now here is à short consideration For Sectaries I said whoeuer supposeth the Roman Catholick Church to haue erred A Reflection for Sectaries must ioyntly own it so remediless an Euil that all the men on earth cannot help or remoue the supposed errour from this Church The reason is All the Proofs and Principles setting plain Scripture aside whereof there is no danger which may be thought pertinent to impeach Her of errour will fall infinitly short and proue less ponderous less substantial to perswade that She has erred than her sole Vote and own Authority whilst she anathematizes the falshood is to perswade the contrary Viz. That She neuer erred Hence Sectaries confessedly fallible men who Sectaries Attempt desperate and why may easily spoil all they goe about to mend aduenture desperatly to reform the Church when the very Principles they should reform by were there any such in being are incomparably of less weight strength and force than the Authority of this Church is which saith She cannot erre Howeuer She must be reformed and here is the wonder before they know whether She has erred or haue the least assurance of their own half accomplish't reformation Who then see 's not euery attempt made against our Church this way to bee as really it is à folly an vnaduiced Enterprise no less impossible than in the highest manner improbable Mark what à task lies on them 6. First they are to proue She has erred which was neuer yet done 2. To giue in Principles whereby they will reform 3. To VVhat they are to proue Shew themselues well setled in à perfect Reformation 4. To euince that all those innumerable learned men of our Church from the Fourth to the present Age haue been stupidly blind bereaued of iudgement and besotted with Errour 5. Wheras other Christians both more aged and most learned espyed none of these Errours They are to proue that God made choise of such vncommissioned men to perform à work so long neglected by the Orthodox world But of these particulars enough is said in the other Treatise 7. Hence two things follow First that Sectaries only lose time when by alleging à few dark Testimonies of the Fathers they offer to
ouerthrow any Doctrin of our Church Alas what this Oracle positiuely defin's is à stronger Principle than twenty dubious Authorities of Fathers if any such were in appearance contrary It followes 2. That the Roman Catholick Church must of necessity be either owned Orthodox in all She teaches or cannot be belieued in any thing 8. Wherefore I say à great word If this Church hath deceiued the world in teaching à Purgatory for example neither we nor Sectaries can certainly belieue that Christ was here on earth or Redeemed vs. For Ask why belieue wee this great Mystery If you Answer Scripture reueal's it you are Questioned again How One Errour in the Church Destroyes all Faith know you that Scripture is Gods word which Ex terminis euidences not it self You must Answer Vniuersal Tradition and all the Churches in the world haue owned the Book for Gods word Very good But The Church hitherto supposed most Orthodox among so many Heretical Societies and Her Tradition likewise haue actually deceiued all For She is now Imagined to haue taught the false Doctrins of Purgatory Transubstantiation c. Therefore you cannot belieue Her or any Tradition for erring in one point of Faith She is not belieuable in any This principle stand's firm Much less can you trust to the Doctrin or Tradition of known Heretical Churches whether Arians Pelagians or others For all these haue erred and most grosly Therefore you haue no certainty of the verities contained in Scripture nor can you belieue this one Prime Article Christ dyed for vs by Diuine Faith 9. Let therefore the Sectary labour all that 's possible to contract the fundamentals of Faith into the shortest room Imaginable let him mince them almost to nothing let this one Article Iesus is the Christ be Faith enough for all I say if the Roman Catholick Church speaking in the name of God as She pretends to speak hath taught but one false Article and obliged Christians to belieue it vnder pain of damnation Purgatory for example none can now vpon any Motiue known to the world firmly belieue That Iesus is the Christ So pernicious is one known errour of the Church that it ruins's all belief of other Articles nor can such à Church be more trusted in any thing She speaks than Scripture relied on were it false in that Article Iesus is the Christ 10. The reason à Priori is All Faith is at last reduced or finally resolued into Gods Diuine Reuelation whether he speaks by this or that Instrument by this or that Oracle imports nothing The Vltimate reason of the Assertion The difference of the Oracle he speaks by diuersifies not faith which alwaies tend's to one Center and rests on one sure Ground Gods Veracity If he speaks by à Prophet that 's his Oracle If by an Apostle he is made an Oracle If by the exteriour words of Scripture they are Oracles if by the Church She is his Oracle Now further Suppose any of these assumed Oracles speaking in the name of God declare à false Doctrin to Christians the Falsity Vltimatly redound's to God who own 's them as Oracles yet by them teaches the world Falsities It fall's out here As if à Prince should send à Legate to à State who speak's in his name and cheat the whole State by his Embassy would not all deseruedly vpon the Supposition more impute the Cheat to the Prince than to the Legate that speaks in his name The parity is exact and proues if either Scripture Prophet Apostle or Church speaking in the name of God deliuers false Doctrin God himself deceiues vs and therefore Rich. de S. Vict. Said well in this sense also Si error est quem credimus c. If we belieue an errour T' is you Great God who haue deceiued vs But if God can once deceiue either immediatly By Himselfe or mediatly by his Oracle The whole Systeme of Christian Faith is desstroyed What I say would bee true Although He should make à solemn protestation of Speaking Truth For euen then he cannot oblige me to belieue because he may deceiue in that very Protestation and deliuer à falsity if the supposition hold 11. Here then is the final Conclusion As subiectiue Faith in à Belieuer is Indiuisible That is it is either wholly good or wolly naught None can haue à piece of Faith without the whole vertue an Could the Church propose one false Article She can bee belieued in nothing Arian cannot belieue Christ to be à Redeemer if He denies the Trinity So if one Matter of Faith proposed by the Church be really Contrary to what She defines None can belieue any thing She teaches For the meer Possibility of deceiuing Christians in one Article impossibilitates the Belief of all She proposeth And this proues the Church absolutly infallible not in some points only but in all and euery Doctrin whereof you haue more in the 15 16 and 17 Chapters following 12. Some may reply I suppose all this while the Church made so stedfastly God's Oracle as not to err in any Doctrin She proposes which is Petitio Principy or à begging of the Question Contra. And Ye Gentlemen whilst you impeach Her of Errour Suppose Her Instrumentum diuulsum an Oracle tom as it were from Gods Sspecial Assistance iust as if I shoâ—ld Suppose the words of Scripture separated from the Spirit of truth You suppose Her à fair spouse yet make Her à harlot when and as Often as you please You acknowledge some Church or other find that out where you can to teach Truth yet you like petulant Schollers will forsooth be so wise as to tell her where she misseth in Her Lesson and correct Her for it And you haue done it to the purpose For you haue destroied Her Monasteries rob'd Her Altars prophaned Her Temples abused Her Children banished some and hang'd vp other Are not these fine God deceiues if the Church câ—n Err. Doings Contra. 2. I suppose nothing but what is manifest that Christ euer had à Church on earth once more find it where you can and that God speaks to Christians by this Oracle which he will be with to the end of the world And against which Hell gates shall neuer preuail Now I say if this Church which God not I makes his own Oracle and promises to teach Truth by it can deceiue but in one Matter of Faith God himself deceiues vs And this Church ceaseth Eo ipâ—o to be Catholick yea and God to be the Eternal Truth For it Matters nothing if he can deceiue whether he do it by Scripture or the Church Solue this Argument if you can 13. You may say 2. The whole ground of this Discourse à Fallacy and comes only to thus much If à man once tell à lie he must be thought à lyar in all he speaks So it is The Church speaks an vntruth in some things Ergo it doth so or may do so in all seemes no good consequence Contra.
Church once Orthodox began to innouate to bring in new Doctrins of an vnbloody Sacrifice of Transubstantiation of praying for the Dead of Purgatory c. Now be pleased to obserue the Demonstration When An Argument against Sectaries the Roman Church began these new supposed Doctrins and actually erred There was at that very time an other Orthodox Church in the world or was not If not Christ had then no Orthodox Church on earth and Consequently that Article of our Creed was false I belieue the Holy Catholick Church For no man can truly belieue in à Church which really is not If contrarywise they own à pure Orthodox Church to haue been on earth when the Roman began to erre That because Orthodox and pure was certainly à Society of Christians distinct from the then supposed fallen and false Church of Rome 3. Hence I argue Eirher that Orthodox distinct Church sensible of Gods cause and the Honour of Christian Faith vigorouly opposed censured and condemned those imagined errours of the Roman Church now fallen or Carelesly let all alone and omitted that Duty If it omitted that duty it was no true Church For if true Her Charge was and is She hath à command from Christ to do it to crush and suppress false Doctrins when they first rise vp or begin to infect the body of Christianity This duty that Church neglected and for that cause was not Orthodox Moreouer the Roman is also Supposed actually drawn from Truth Clear and Conuincing Condemned Hereticks made vp no Church We had then in those daies à strange world indeed when Christ the Supreme Head looked down from Heauen and saw his Mystical body the Church pitifully Corrupted when he cast an eye vpon poor Christians and found them all Churchless 4. If Sectaries own such an Orthodox Society which opposed and censured the Roman Errours that must be à Truth as Notoriously known to the world as it is now supposed that the Church of Rome had Errours Notoriously known And Here I desire the Iudicious Reader to reflect on what I Shall propose And wish our Aduersaries to Answer Can they Imagine the Errours of the Roman Church openly discouered so many Centuries since and judge that no Orthodox Christians then liuing who beheld Truth run to ruin made Opposition against them The Errours say Protestants were palpable for our new men espy them now yet no Orthodox Christans are heard of to this day who then stood vp for Gods cause and defended the Ancient truths of Christ against this supposed erring Church This yet lies in darkness The Fault must be noised as both criminal and publick And yet there is no newes at all of such as lent à helping hand to redress it 5. Again Can it be imagined that the Roman Catholick Church which Age after Age condemned innumerable Hereticks And giues in an exact Catologue in order as They rose vp These Sectaries Paradoxes and. particulars are exactly known And yet that no Author Friend or Enemy Can bee found who giues so much as the least hint of any sound Christians that condemned the now decryed Errours of this one Church Finally and here is the wonder must we suppose our Church to haue grosly erred à thousand years since when yet all good Christians were silent and reprehended it not And that now after ten whole Ages are past And Millions of Souls damned for want of Faith A company of iarring Protestants Can probably begin to talk of them to Reproue to Argue Vast improbabilities and offer to settle Christianity right vpon its old Fundations No thought of man can fall vpon more desperate improbabilities yet they pass as current among Sctaries But of this point more hereafter in the 13 Chapter 6. Now here is the Conclusion and the true Trial of this cause It is possible that our new men who pretend knowledge in Antiquity name an Orthodox Church which openly Protested What Sectaries are obliged to doe but Cannot against these supposed Errours before Protestants were in Being It is possible to tell vs when this Church strongly Acted against the Roman Errours It is Possible to say what became of that Orthodox Church at last whether after it had done that great work and Censured the Roman Doctrin It quickly disappeared Or still remain's in the world It is I say Possible that Sectaries Euidence these particulars of most high Concern or impossible If the first can be done we Catholicks ought to Reform But I must vnbeguile the Reader and absolutly Assert All the Protestants who now are or shall bee hereafter Shall as soon destroy all Christian Faith as name any Orthodox Society any thing like à true Church which censured these supposed Roman Errours Therefore And it is an euident Demonstration Our Catholick Church once true continued so in all Ages Or there was none in the world Orthodox The Articles She maintained then and yet defend's are no Errours but Primitiue Verities And thus the whole Plea of our new men Concerning Errours entring the Church de facto ends as it deserues in à flat Calumny What do they think to bring Errours to light now whereof the most learned Churches in the world neuer took notice before Will they speak of false Doctrins when all Orthodox Societies said nothing of them Dare they accuse and condemn à Church which Millions of Souls so highly reuerenced that the best of Christians liued and dyed happily in it Nothing can be more exotical Wherefore I say when our Nouellists can work this Perswasion into mens minds That Crowes once white turned black in time though no body must say when Then and not Their Attempt impossible before they may perhaps hope to make vs mad and induce All to belieue that our Church Anciently pure became tainted in time with gross Errours though when or in what Age this deformity appeared they know not nor Can euer know because the Change is de subiecto non supponente not supposable 7. One may reply Though the Sectary cannot point at an Orthodox Church which condemned these now Supposed Roman Errours yet he has plenty of witnesses to ground his Assertion vpon For in past Ages many though reputed Hereticks vehemently decryed the Doctrins of our Church as Nouelties Sweruing from the primitiue Truths Answ Very true indeed For thus Arius of old decryed Consubstaâ—tâ—ality and the Supreme Godhead in Christ Pelagius Original sin The Monathelits two wills in our Sauiour Humane and Diuine Luther an vnbloody Sacrifice And the Diuel after all if you 'l belieue him will oppose euery Truth which Christ taught But what is all this to the purpose which yet to my great wonder I find vrged by some Is the Authority of these condemned and confessedly known Hereticks precisely considered to be parallell'd with à Church The Votes of Aduersaries without Proofs weightless which was neuer condemned by Orthodox Christians Must the condemned Party be heard when it Accuses And the Innocent or
à most sâ—uere Examination and finally to make the Glorious vvorks of God knovvn Sentence vvas Iuridically pronounced by à vvorthy Arch-Bishop as is novv said Quod si rei tam notae contradicere ausint And if Sectaries yet dare contradict so manifest à Verity Quis illos c. who is there that vvill not look on them As impudent and list them among incredulous Iewes 21. Yet our Mr Stillingfleet forsooth Shifts all off with à Ieer. It is an easy thing for à Stump to grovv à leg in its passage from Spain hither What will not this man write to his petty purpose if 't come in his way What will he not pare away Mr Stillingfleets cheat and open fraud and add to à Story remote from the knowledge of the vulgar His book is full of such fraud Will he not think ye say any thing before the illiterate and ignorant in the high Mysteries of Faith whilst he blushes not to cheat and deceiue his Reader in à matter of Fact Notorioussly known to the world If he thinks I haue forged this Relation Hee shall haue the very indiuidual Copy I made vse of sent him the Bulk is not big If he doubt's of the Authority of these witnesses already produced and say yet all is à Fourb I 'll say as easily I am fooled in belieuing there is such à man in the world as Mr Stillingfleet whom I neuer saw And next will force him to exchange Principles with me à little You Sir say its à fourb à pretended no real Cure What 's required of Him I say Contrary The Cure was real and à great Miracle Proue now you Your Assertion vpon as good Humane Authority as I haue proued mine And we come to Principles fit to decide in the present Matter Fail to do this your Assertion hath not so much as one leg to stand on besides fancy or something worse CHAP. X. Other Marks and Signes peculiar to the Roman Catholick Church proue her Orthodox And make Her Doctrin euidently credible These laid forth to Sense and Reason distinguish the true Church from all Erring Societies Inferences drawn from the Doctrin Here deliuered 1. VEry little may suffice concerning the first part of the Title our Catholick Authors hauing done the work to my hands whilst they treat most largely and learnedly of the Amplitude and Vniuersallity of the Roman Catholick Church of the continued and Succession of Her Bishops Pastors and people of Her Vnity in one and the same Faith of Her Sanctity of the efficacy of Her Doctrin in conuerting whole Nations to Christ which S. Austin justly hold's miraculous The Largeness of this great moral Body rightly called by Sectaries à growing Religion which no persecution of Tyrants could hitherto suppres For time extends it self without dispute to all pass'd Ages since Christ And The Largeness of the Catholicks Church if we speak of place the growth successiuely was so great That In omnem terram exivit sonus eorum it hath been preach'd with immense fruit to all Nations Answerable to that of the Royal Prophet Psalm 2. where the eternal Father speaking to Christ our Lord as man giues him an ample Kingdome spread all ouer for his Possession Ask of me and I will giue the Gentils for thy Inheritance and thy possâ—ssion the last ends of the earth 2. Hence we first distinguish the Church of Christ from the lewish Synagouge limitated to one time till the comming of our true Messias And to one place also For the Sacrifice essential to that Religion could not be offered but in the Temple of Hierusalem only We distinguish both Church and Doctrin likewise from Mahumatism Nestorianism Eutychianism and other Heresies in Distinguishes Her from all false Sects the East which neuer got any considerable footing in these Western parts of Europe Finally we distinguish it from Lutheranism Calvtanism and Protestanism à confused Mixture of both and other late Doctrins These and their dissenting Heads stay in our Northin Climats without fruit or Progress made into Asia Affrica Greece or the like remote Countries wherefore some doubt not to auerr and most truely That the Holy Orders of S. Dominick of S. Francis and of the Society of Jesus are further spread more diffused through the world at this day â— than all the Sects or Subdiuisions of Protestants euer yet were or I think will be But the Kingdome of Christ's Church as Tertullian Cited aboue Chap. 1. n. 6. well obserues Vbique regnat reignes euery where and is The Amptitude of Christ's Keingdome euery where belieued Nor can these latter Sectaries now in an aged world hope to Propagate further For if S. Austin De Vnit. Eccle. C. 14. Thought it enormously improbable that Donatism then so early could diffuse it selfe the whole world ouer much less can our confined Protestants very late Teachers after so many Centuries when Heresy euery where lyes à gasping Hope to draw forreign Nations to à Belief of their Nouelties 3. The reason à Priori is A greater extent à further increase seem's inconsistent with the very Nature of those who professe this Religion For once liuing in the Vine and drawing Nutriment from thence they wilfully cut them selves off and separated from the Church Therefore as S. Austin saith they lie where they are Withering and dying without Lustre or any Enlargement Again as they began this new learning without Gommission to teach So they can send none hereafter Authoritatiuely to spread it further Hence I Argue That Church only is Christ's true Spouse which euer Protestancy increases not And why was from the first Rise of Christianity and successiuely got Possesin the four Parts of the world But thus the Roman Catholick Church was and is Still diffused here is Christ's promised Inheritance Therefore She is the only true Church Contrarywise the narrow confined and iarring multitudes of Sectaries scattered vp and down in à few corners in Europe All late Beginners and shameful Desertors of this Ancient Society neuer had so ample an inheritance and Consequently Their pretence of being the true Church of Christ is more than improbable 4. VVe may yet subioyn to the Amplitude of our Religion the euer visible and neuer interrupted Succession of Bishops and Pastors in the Roman Catholick Church from Christs time A Mark no less euident to sense than openly destructiue of Heresy This succession long since Prophesied by Daniel Cap. 2. Christ Kingdom shall neuer be dissipated and foretold by the Apostle Ephes 4. 11 He gaue some Apostles c. Sett's forth the Glory of it VVe need not in this place to weary the Reader with the known Authority of S. Austin positiuely Asserting Contra Epist fundam The succession of Lawful Pastors vrged C. 4. That the Succession of Pastors from S. Peters time held him in the Catholick Church and the Argument is more fully urged again Lib. de utilit Credendi C. 17. VVee need not tell any with
our Lord was the true Messias and one sent from God by the Wonders he wrought though they little yet vnderstood the depth of those Mysteries he deliuered and obliged all to belieue Thus much Premised 17. I Proue that the Roman Catholick Church is God's only Oracle And first Her exteriour Marks and signs giue in as clear euidence of Her being the only Diuine Oracle as the wonders which the Apostles wrought euidenced them to be Diuine Oracles With this lustre we haue à Church most visible and discernable from all vnorthodox Communities None can Parallel Her in known Miracles in Antiquity Perpetuity Conuersions c. 2. This Church hath taught the world euer since The Churches clear Euidence Christianity began and no Orthodox Society but She only is nameable which deliuered the Sincere Doctrin of Christ For hint at any they are manifestly proued condemned Hereticks 3. She was neuer censured in any Age of errour by so much as one confessed sound Christian Nay I say more and haue proued it aboue She is so infallible that if she erred but in one Article She then ceased to be Gods Oracle 4. This Church showes the Mission of Her Pastors and deriues Her Comission to teach the world from God and our Lord Iesus Christ 18. The first Mission concerning the teaching of the new Testament Originally came from Almighty God that sent his only Son our Sauiour to preach Iohn 14. 24. The word you haue heard is not mine but his that sent me the Fathers Luke 4. 14. He sent me to Euangelize to the poor Now Christ our Lord sent the other Apostles Mark 16. 15. Going into the whole world preach the Gospel to all creatures These first Masters had their Successors lawfully commissioned they sent others age after age in so much that the Mission of Orthodox Pastors legally authorized to administer Sacraments and to preach Gods word neuer yet failed in the Roman Catholick Church since Christ's being vpon earth nor shall fail hereafter to the worlds end 19. These Truths well weighed And after many serious thoughts found as they are vndeniable Prudent reason account's all that can be obiected against our euidenced Church worse than folly And here is the ground à Priori of the folly These Aduersaries Sectaries mistake the right way of arguing that Oppose vs quite mistake the right way of Arguing were there any For whereas they should first find out Gods great Oracle which teaches truth and obiect that against vs They wholly waue this matter of highest Importance And so far as weak Reason can work draw Arguments from the dark Mysteries of Faith One finds difficulty in the Trinity and reiect's it Another in the Doctrin of Transubstantiation and hold's it impossible That is weak reason as much set's vp its own light against God as if one should offer to extinguish the Sun beams by the dim light of à candle 20. Obserue I beseech you à strange Procedure We euidence à Church we proue Her Gods Oracle by the Characters Signes and Marks manifestly laid open to all mens eyes we say this manifested Oracle which has drawn Millions of souls to the Catholick belief cannot beguile vs. Our Aduersaries one the other side Say notwithstanding this reasonable Euidence God speaks not by Her Because the Mysteries are hard and aboue Reason whereas indeed the quite Contrary should be inferred They plead most simply viz. Because they are mysterious God speaks by so euidenced an Oracle And here is the Reason of my Inference 21. Had the abstruse Mysteries taught by the Church been à humane Inuention only and not from God the supposed Inuentor of them who euer he was had been worse then mad to Propose so many to our shallow Reason He should rather haue followed the strain of all other Hereticks and with the Arians denyed à Trinity with Protestants cast of Transubstantiation The reason of their weak pleading But this you see is not done The Church speak's truth plainly because She knowes there is an other light à stronger Euidence which lessens facilitates and conquer's these seeming Difficulties If therefore there be euidence enough of Credibility for this one Proposition God speaks to all by this known Oracle Reason pleads no more but yeilds to one that cannot erre 22. It may perhaps appear Strange if One consider with what plain Simplicity the Holy Euangelists wrote the Gospel of Iesus Christ where they seem to furnish the Iewes with Arguments against our Sauiour They declared how He was contemned reproached Scourged haled from Tribunal to Tribunal and finally Crucified Here the Aduersaries of Christ Exclaim and Ask what 's more Difficult Could God possibly Say they The Candor of the Euangelists writing our Sauiours life permit his only son to be thus abused when 't is writ Maledictus qui pendit in ligno Cursed is the man that hang's on à Cross The Euangelists feared not the Obiection but related the Story as it was Nor did they to gain their great Master applause Couer or dissemble his Sufferings as Policy might haue done had humane Wisdom only made the Book No. They proceeded candidly And why all this Sincerity think ye The Answer is easy They knew well that the Victory which our Sauiour gained after all these sufferings The Renown he purchased vpon the Cross the Miracles he then and formerly had wrought were so forceable Euidences of his being the true Messias that no contrary Humiliation euen to death it self could obscure that greater light and rational euidence of Truth Therefore whole Multitudes beholding the wonders at his sacred Passion after the Centurion had cryed out This man indeed was iust returned knocking ther brests Luke 23. 48. And in his life time said Quid facimus What do we doe This Christ works so many wonders That if we dismiss him All will belieue in him Arguments drawn from what is said Reflections made vpon the premised Doctrin Christ and His Church preuaile against Incredulity 23. Hence I Argue If the euident Light of our Sauiours glorious Miracles was sufficient to vanquish Incredulity and to work à Belief in all of his truely being the Son of God notwithstanding the difficulty of the Mystery It followes clearly that the vndeniable Euidence of the Roman Catholick Church already laid forth is as fully sufficient to vanquish the Incredulity of Heathens Iewes and Hereticks And to work this Perswasion in all notwithstanding the high Mysteries proposed that She is Gods Oracle For here is my Principle and most vndoubted That as the Verity of Christian Religion is to be learned from that known Oracle which bear's Christ's Ensigns without disputing the Sublimity of the Doctrin so the falsity of à Doctrin is proued Not by the difficulty thereof but is clearly gathered from the Nullity of an vneuidenced Church which teaches it An vneuidenced Church therefore is no warrant of true Doctrin 24. And here you haue briefly the fundamental Reason why no Heretick
done which will neuer be I am confident His Extract or what is required of Mr Thorndick Draught would appear so imperfect and mishapen à Business in the iudgement of Catholicks and Protestants also That as the one Party cannot but look on it with disdain so the other would reiect it as vnworthy Acceptance 22. Besides would it not seem à new wonder to Strangers abroad Yea and as ridiculous as wonderful were rhey told that after so much labour spent about reforming Religion in England we haue yet at present à thoughtful Gentleman there that 's very busy in Setting forth the last and best Edition of Protestancy Reformed which perhaps may proue worse than any other gon before Naught it must needs be for this Reason That the means he would reform by has no Proportion with the designed End For by A New◠Reformer of Religion in these old dayes of the world the light of à few dead Manuscripts written 14. or 15. Ages Since He offer 's now to amend all the Churches in the world though the very sense of these Writings which must be the Rule of his Reformation is neither well known to Himselfe nor yet agreed on by those dissenting Churches he would reform What think ye Were this sense yet to be learned the want whereof causes endles Errours among Sectaries would not common Prudence rather take it from à liuing Oracle which has taught the world time out of mind than from à late Nouellist that Professes himself fallible and Therefore may most easily Misinterpret would appear ridiculous to all the best Records This liuing Oracle at least promises infallibility Which Shall be proued presently And therefore is à Surer Principle to rely on Then The Fathers Sentences long Since Written whilst Sectaries make Their sense and true meaning à Matter of Contest 23. Yet one word more and I end Mr Thorndick will Reform the present Roman Church Corrupted by the Primitiue supposed pure for the first 4. or 5. Ages I must needs demand first whether that Primitiue Church the Rule of his Reformation Questions proposed to our Aduersary was infallible and pure in those pretended fundamentals only necessary to Saluation though not in other Doctrins of lesser Moment Or. 2. Whether She because fallible as much needed Reformation in smaller Matters not called fundamental as this present Church is supposed to need Or. 3. Whether She was so entirely pure in euery doctrin little and great that She could not be brought to more Purity or be better Reformed Grant the first viz. That the Primitiue Church was vnerrable and pure in fundamentals only not in others The present Roman Church is as good as She was For our Aduersary own 's Her à true Church wherein Saluation may be had and thus far She needs no reforming Grant 2. that both these Churches because fallible might erre and perhaps haue erred in lesser Matters not named fundamental The Primitiue can be no Rule of Reformation to the present Church because that Primitiue is alike err 〈…〉 alike reformable And for ought men know as much out of the way of truth in Non-fundamentals as the present Church is Therefore I said aboue if the blind cannot lead the blind à Church wanting Reformation cannot reform another sick of the same malady 24. If finally it be Said the Primitiue Church was so infallible so pure euery way both in great and little Matters that She could not be more reformed in the first 5. Centuries for example We haue à Church once entirely pure And then vrge our Herein Satisfaction is most required Aduersary not barely to say it But to proue vpon indubitable Principles Scriptures Fathers or the General Consent of Christians that She continued not wholly as pure in the sixt seuenth or eight Age and so downward to our dayes as She was before To shew à Deficiency in this Church once confessedly true in after Ages will be more than an Herculian labour when it is demonstratiuely euidenced aboue That nothing but à Church equally as Ancient as Vniuersal and glorious in Miracles as the Roman is can probably impeach Her of the least Corruption Mr Thorndicks Mistake is that he makes as Sectaries vsually do à false Supposition his Proof He supposes A supposition made à Proof our Church corrupted in Doctrin and then will amend it according to his fancy by the Primitiue whereas he knowes or ought to know that we Catholicks deny His Supposition and say both are vnerrable and withall Assert that no Authority on earth can better inform vs of the Primitiue Doctrin than the present Roman Church which hath successiuely handed it to vs Age after Age. Howeuer to take away all ambiguity and further Dispute in this Matter you haue next three following Chapters which I hope will giue Satisfaction to the rational Reader More shall be added hereafter CHAP. XIV VVhether there be à Church of one Denomination infallible not only in Matters miscalled Fundamental but in all and euery Doctrin She Proposes and Obliges Christians to belieue as Faith 1. AS the Answer to the Question aym's at à clear and easy way of ending Controuersies Concerning Religion So the following Discourse tend's to settle one great truth in the minds of euery one viz. That both the Ancient and present Roman Catholick Church is not only infallible But that the what we intend to proue Aduersaries of Her infallibility destroy the very Essence of Christian Religion And deseruedly merit vpon that Account The name of Schismaticks and Heretiques also 2. To make good what 's now Asserted à few Postulata or Principles must be premised One is That Church which Promises and proues Herselfe infallible in Doctrin doth not only Vpon these following Principles facilitate but giues also absolute Security to Faith For such à Church Participat's most and comes neerest to that first Diuine Apostolical Spirit which confessedly was infallible 3. A. ◠Principle Whereas nothing hath or ought to haue à stronger Influence ouer the minds of men than Religion So nothing can discountenance it more than à stedfast Perswasion of its Fallibility and Consequently of it 's easily being False This Perswasion Cut's of all Christian Assurance and driues men to so cold an Indifference of embracing this or that Religion That it much import's not which to take to any or none 4. A. 3. Principle The means or influence whereby Christ preserues his Church infallible needs not to be explicated by any Supernatural quality personally inhering in the Teaching Representatiue or intrinsecally eleuating the conuened Prelates to à State of Infallibility for t' is enough that the safe Conduct of Almighty God who is alwaies vigilant and Assists by his exteriour Protection so secures the Church from errour that She neither What the Churches Infallibility requires can be misled when She teaches nor mislead others Yet I deny not but that an interiour Motion of Grace may be yea and often
Christians who are to learn it as Infallible But Sectaries do So That is they vnnaturely turn A Conuincing â—eason hereof Gods infallible Doctrin out of its own intrinsecal Certainty and Say its only Morally Certain to vs Therefore they wrong that first Verity and abuse all Christians This Principle alone Proues the Churches Infallibility And vtterly ruin's the Protestants Pretence to Moral Certainty whereof you Shall haue More hereafter 25. Now to deal fairely with Mr Stillingfleet let vs at present falsely Suppose Moral Certainty à sufficient ground of Faith Were Church Doctrin only Morally certain Sectaries yet gain Nothing what Good for Gods sake get Protestants by that Can They tell vs where the Church is whose Doctrin must be reputed only morally certain The Arians call themselues à Church so do the Graecians the Protestants likewise and finally so do Catholicks Are all these different iarring Doctrins Morally certain Euidently No. For the Professors of them maintain Contradictions vtterly Destructiue both of Moral and all other Certainty Some One Society therefore teaches it For more than One if diuided in faith cannot This One must be Signalized and pointed out which no Protestant can do For if he name his own Church he hath the whole world against him and will be forced to proue his Assertion vpon indubitable Principles And if he point at the Roman Catholick Church he ruin's his own cause For two opposite Churches cannot teach Doctrin morally Certain Now if he can point at no Church of One Denomination teaching Doctrin Morally certain This certainty is only an insignificant word in the aire appliable to no Christian Society 26. A second obiection The Motiues of Credibility though commonly held only Inducements morally certain so Denote the true Church that all may find it out Therefore though Church Doctrin were only morally Certain and not Infallible it may sufficiently lead to belieue that Doctrin which God has Reuealed Answ Here is neither Parity nor any Inference consequential Faith relies not vpon Motiues inducing to Beliefe And the want of distinguishing between the Credibility of Reuealed Doctrin and its Truth breed's the Confusion The Motiues then only make the Doctrin euidently Credible and remit vs to the Church which teaches Truth She proposes the Doctrin and vpon Her Proposition Faith relies which therefore must be infallible not vpon the Motiues too weak to Support Faith In à word here is all I would say God Reueal's truth infallibly the Motiues in à General way manifest the Church where truth is taught the Church thus Signalized Proposes Truth infallibly And vpon Her infallible Proposition not for the Motiues Christians belieue Infallibly 27. A third Obiection If the Churches Proposition be infallible or if God speaks by the Church As he anciently did by the Prophets and Apostles And She likewise Speak's in his name Whateuer this Oracle Proposes may be called the Voice of God and Consequently the Formal Obiect of Faith I Answer no hurt at all were it so For perhaps in this present State of things few Articles of Faith are or can be belieued independently of the Churches Proposition At least it is very easy to say I Belieue the Sacred Trinity because God anciently Reuealed it to whether the Churches Proposition may be Call'd the Obiect of Faith the Apostles and also because the Church now Testifies that the Mystery was anciently Reuealed Howeuer we here waue this Doctrin and Say The Churches Proposition though absolutely infallible is not properly speaking the Formal Obiect of Faith Though much may be de Nomine First because it is meerly Accidental not Essential to Faith to be proposed by the Church by this or that Oracle For Christ our Lord at his first Preaching was not the Church yet he Proposed Articles to be Belieued and most Infallibly 2. Diuines by the word Formal Obiect vsually vnderstand the Ancient infallible Reuelation made to the Prophets and Apostles And not the Churches Proposition which though it be an Intrinsick Essential and Necessary Condition compleating and Applying the Ancient Reuelation to Belieuers yet Principally it Terminates not Faith Now to be an essential Condition nothing at all impairs the Churches Infallibility Thus much is said to solue the Obiection though the Matter t' is true is capable of higher Speculation but Sectaries like not Speculatiue Learning 28. A fourth Obiection The Churches Infallibility seem's chiefly Asserted vpon this Ground that She is to be Heard and Obeyed which proues nothing For Iudges Gouernours and Parents The Disparity between Gouernours Commanding and the Church defining are to be heard and obeyed though all are fallible Answ A most silly Obiection The very Matter wherein These and the Church are to be Obeyed Shewes the disparity For No Ciuil Magistrate pretend's to regulate Faith or to Define what God Reueal's This the Church and She only is impowred to do To crush Heresies as they rise vp and to establish without Erring the contrary Truths which cannot be effected the matter being so Sublime without the infallible Assistance of the Holy Ghost Now we are to Proceed to the main Business in hand CHAP. XVI Principles premised to the following Doctrin The Roman Catholick Church is à Church of One Denomination She and no other Society of Christians is Infallible Other Grounds of Her Infallibility laid forth The Infallibility of Councils maintained against Mr Stillingfleets Supposed Truth and Reason There are no Principles whereby Approued Councils can be proued Fallible Sectaries Conuinced by their own Doctrin 1. WE here first Premise three certain Principles One that the Doctrin of all Churches seuerally Denominated One Principle importing the Disunion in Faiih from their Authors as Arianism from the Arians Protestancy from Protestants Christian Verities from Christ our Lord â—s not in the whole or totally considered vnder One Notion of Christian Doctrin either True or Infallible For in this whole diffuâ—ed Body We euidently find Contradictions The Arians conâ—adict Protestants These Set against Arians And the Catholick Church Opposes both Therefore All of them maintain neither One nor true nor infallible Catholick Doctrin And consequently infallibility ceases in the VVhole when the seueral Parts stand in an implacable Opposition with One another 2. A. 2. Principle If all Churches which Contradict One another are not infallible One only and of one Denomination Another Principle must be infallible or none at all can be so For example Catholicks and Protestants teach Contrary Doctrin the like is of all other dissenting Societies both Parties cannot be infallible Therefore the One is so or Neither Now further Protestantâ— disclaim the Prerogatiue of teaching infallibly whence it followes First That the Roman Catholick Church enioyes that Priuiledge or there is no such thing on earth as an infallible Church Secondly this is Consequent It is the same to Say The Roman Catholick Church is infallible as to Say that God yet Preserues an infallible Church in Being This
Reformation Vpon what they would build their Reformation vpon one Principle Chiefly we will here in the first place Shew you what they pretend and vtterly destroy it 2. In à word The main ground of our Protestants late The Protestants pretence laid forth Reformation or the Chiefest cause why they deserted the Roman Catholick Church is best declared in their own language The Roman Catholick Church Say they though once sound and Orthodox yet in after Ages turned from God betrayed his truths brought in Idolatry and damnable Heresies Hence it is we boldly accuse her hence it is we write against her notorious Errours and out of loue to our Souls leaue Her Nos iussu diuino Babylone Egressi Saith Riuet in Sum. Trac 2. q. 2. n. 3. We by God's command are gone out of Babylon he mean's the Roman Catholick Church not so much for her vnpurities as for Her What Sectaries Assert Idols and Heresy More he hath in the following words often accusing this Church of Idolatry and Heresy Consonant to what Mr Stillingfleet teaches in the seueral passages of his Account 3. To overthrow this whole Plea I Argue thus Whoever The ground of their Doctrin ouerthrown euidently impeaches an ample Church of Idolatry or Heresy once vniuersally acknowledged Orthodox and proues not euidently the truth of his Accusation by clear and vnquestioned Principles but desert's that Society without Euidence alleged against her Doctrin by this one Syllogism Acts most vniustly Err's notoriously and Sin 's damnably Bâ—t Protestants do So. That is They euidently impeach à whole ample Church once vniuersally reputed Orthodox of Idolatry and Heresy and haue also most euidently deserted Her without Euidence alleged against her Doctrin which can be grounded vpon vnquestionable Principles Ergo They act most vniustly Err notoriously and Sin damnably 4. The Maior Proposition stand's firm vpon à Principle hinted at aboue Viz. That an euident Accusation in so weighty à Matter vtterly loses force vnless euident Proofs support it The Maior Proposition proued and confirmed This may be further Confirmed by one Ratiocinations in the like Form of Arguing Whoeuer should euidently impute to Holy Scripture once vniuersally receiued as God's Sacred word Idolatry and Heresy or so much as impeach it of flight and incredible Doctrin as the Machiauellians and Socinians do without What if one discoursed of Scripture as â—â—ctaries do of the Church clear and euident Proofs would be à most desperate Plaintife and Sin damnably because he endeauours to bring into publick disreputation God's own truths which the wisest of the world euer reuerenced as Sacred and Diuine And though he should plead as Sectaries Discourse of the Church or Assert that the Book indeed was once pure and Orthodox but afterwards falling into wicked hands notorious Corruptions false Doctrins when or how no body knowes clancularly got in and spoild its purity Though I say He Should plead after this manner without à clear demonstration or Euidence of Proofs He would yet be à most vniust Accuser and Sin damnably Ergo He or they that tax à whole Church once owned for God's Spouse and most certainly Orthodox of notorious corrupted Doctrin with an addition of Idolatry are guilty of the very same open Iniustice and Sin damnably The Parity holds exactly 5. The Minor Proposition viz. But Sectaries impeach c. Sayes two things First that they euidently accuse à whole Church The minor Proued and haue euidently derserted Her which is manifest Ad oculum Secondly that they haue done so without Euidence of Proofs against her Doctrin grounded on vnquestionable Principles And this we shall most easily demonstrate if our Adversaries will please to own with vs these following Principles or any of them as most vnquestionable 6. First the plain and express words of Holy Scripture without Mixture Indubitable Principles supposed where vpon proofs must stand of their particular Glosses or ours also 2. The vnanimous Consent of ancient Fathers but still without Glosses 3. The clear Iudgement of any Orthodox Church wherevnto we add the express Definitions of ancient approued Councils and vniuersal Tradition receiued by all 4. Manifest Reason No Principles can be better or equalize these in worth Proofs if solid must stand vpon One or more of them 7 Speak therefore its high time Let vs not eternally word Sectaries are vrged to follow closely the main point it but go closely to Work We are here in à main Matter Concerning Saluation can you Dr Stillingfleet or any Protestant in England as Euiduntly proue that such and such an Article of Catholick Religion is Contrary to all or any one of these mentioned Principles as euery Grammarian can euidently tell you that this or that Solaecism is euidently against the Rules of Grammer I here boldly challenge you vouchsafe to Answer without tergiuersation if you can reioyn you are worthy Doctors if not be pleased to surcease from writing Controuersies hereafter Yet one word more 8. You say Euidently we are Idolaters because we Adore Christ By Proofs drawn from ihe Principles already mentioned in the Blessed Sacrament Hold on I beseech you and proue your Euident Assertion Euidently by plain Scripture by the vnanimous consent of ancient Fathers by the known Iudgement of any Orthodox Church c. When you pretend to haue done thus much But begin you first I 'll boldly Confront you and demonstrate that the Scripture you allege is no Scripture your supposed Fathers are false Oracles your supposed Councils your Tradition and Sectaries Prooss meer Phaâ—sies lastly what you call Reason merit not so much as the very Names you giue them All this is to Say in other terms You grosly abuse these Oracles you either Corrupt their very words as is most vsual or violently force from them à new peruerse Sense which God neuer intended to speak by them And Consequently the Euidence you pretend to is nothing But à strong Illusion or an vngrounded Phansy not resolvable into the Clarity or Truth of any one of the forenamed Principles Thus much premised 9. I prove the Minor positiuely If it be à manifest Truth The minor Proposition proued that Christ our Lord had an Orthodox Church on earth for the last ten Centuries If it be also manifest that the Professors of this Church be it yet where you will were either Idolaters or damnable Hereticks it is most demonstrable that Sectaries cannot Euidently Euince the Roman Catholick Church guilty of Idolatry 10. The ground of my Assertion is Whoeuer euidently Whoeuer proues the Roman Church Idolatrous ruins Christ's true Church proues the Roman Catholick Church guilty of Idolatry euinces eo ipso That Christ had no Orthodox Church on earth for à thoufand years To make this manifest Please to diuide the whole Moral Body of men called Christians into three Classes into Orthodox Belieuers if yet there were any into Idolaters and known Heretiques This Diuision made
I boldly Assert you The reason hereof may iustly cast away that Class of Orthodox Believers and call all rhe Christians in the world according to Sectaries Idolaters or known professed Heretiques Catholicks you se are listed amongst Idolaters because they Adore Christ in the holy Eucharist as the ancient Orthodox Graecians did Those Graecians yet of the Schism pray to Saints that 's plain Idolatry Say Sectaries The ancient and modern Graâ—cians supposed Idolaters The rest of Christians nameable the whole world ouer from Luther to the third or fourth Age whether Macedonians Pelagians or Arians were all professed Heretiques These and none but these Imagined Idolaters and known Heretiques à Monstruous heteroclite Progeny of men essentially constituted Christ's Orthodox Church Therefore he who proues Euidently that Catholicks The rest were Hereticks are Idolaters and rightly supposes All others called Christians to haue been Heretiques Proues and rightly Supposes Christ The Inference clear against Sectaries to haue had no Orthodox Church on earth for à thousand years which is à desperate Improbability deduced from our Sectaries Principle who blush not to charge an ancient Church with that Shameful crime of Idolatry though no Proof meanly probable as we shall se hereafter much lesse Euident vphold's the Calumny 11. Some may here demand why we require to haue these Why Euidence is required supposed Errours and Idolatry of our Church euidently proued against vs Is it not enough to euince this vpon moral Certainty The First Question is easily answered by proposing another of the like nature Would not these Protestants iustly require An Instance taken from Scripture proues what is required Euidence from à new Sect of men should it now start vp and pretend on the one side to belieue in Christ yet on the other as boldly impute errour and Idolatry to the holy Book of Scripture as Sectaries do to the Church They would certainly not be satisfied with lesser proofs then euident Hence it is that we in like manner exact neither Topicks nor guesses but clear Euidence against the supposed errours of our Church and reasonably do so First because She by God's Special Prouidence hath hitherto preserued Scriptures pure without Corruptions in Doctrin 2. Because all must own Scripture as both Diuine and pure vpon the Authority of Christ's Church Therefore It as highly concern's all to defend the purity of Christ's Church as the purity of God's written word it as highly concern's Christians to maintain the purity of Christ's Church as to maintain the purity of Scripture And Consequently if nothing lesse then Euidence can bring that Sacred Book into contempt or Euince it of errour Nothing lesse then Euidence can cast à blemish on the Church which giues vs Scripture and ascertain's all that it is Diuine 12. That other Pretence to moral Certainty is à meer whymsy reiected aboue in the second Discourse The Reason there hinted at much to this sense Conuinceth A Doctrin in Matters of Religion Contrary to the Publick Iudgement of the whole Christian world cannot be morally Certain But what Sectaries The pretence to Moral Certainty refuted Assert Concerning the Errours and Idolatry of the Church is à Doctrin Contrary to the publick Iudgement of the whole Christian world Ergo. I proue the Minor One great part of the Christian world is the Roman Catholick Church She stifly opposes this loud Calumny of Idolatry and errours laid to Her Charge Add herevnto the Sentiment of the Chiefest and the most A Doctrin Contrary to the publick Iudgement of the world known Arch-heretiques Who whilst they were in their wits that is before their wicked Apostasy Iudged as the Church Iudged and belieued as she belieued This Vniuersal Consent of an Euidenced Church together with the Sentiment of Her once Orthodox Members though afterward wilful Reuolters I call Cannot be Morally certain à Iudgement of Christians so publick and vndoubted that nothing Contrary to it can be morally Certain Giue me but one Instance of any Truth reputed Morally certain amongst men which euer What may well be called this publick Iudgement merited that name when witnesses so vniuersal so numerous and well qualified opposed it and I shall acquiesce But this is Impossible 13. Here again fitly comes in what we now Sayd of Holy Scripture Suppose which is true that your Chiefest Arch-hereticks once reuerenced that sacred Book as God's Diuine The Instance concerning Scripture introduced again word with the same high respect as the Roman Catholick Church euer did and yet doth Suppose 2. That Some Abetters of those first wicked men whether Arians Socinians or Others should begin to charge the Book with false Doctrin would such à supposed Calumny thinke ye euer arriue to so high Moral That Sacred Book cannot be iustly calumniated Certainty as to bring Scripture into open Contempt whilst à whole learned Church defend's its purity No the Calumny would not be meanly probable vpon this Ground that neither Probability much less Moral Certainty can stand in force when whilst à whole Church defend's its purity Witnesses of so great worth so vniuersal and numerous oppose it Apply what is here noted to the Church and you will find an exact Parity Both She and her own Arch-aduersaries once maintained Her Doctrin as Sacred and Orthodox Now rise vp à Company of iarring Sectaries who will forsooth haue their Charge of Idolatry and notorious Errours against Her passe for No more can à few iarring Adversaries iustly Calumniate the Church à Moral certain Truth The Assertion cannot arriue to moral certainty before the whole Body of Christians becomes mad and makes Scripture it selfe no lesse an erroneous Book than the Church Idolatrous For here is my Principle With one most certain Assent I hold the Church inerrable and the Scriptures Diuine Destroy the Churches infallibility or Say she hath erred you make Scripture eo ipso à Book of no credit 14. A. second Argument Those who exactly follow the A second Argument taken from the procedure of old Condemned Hereticks strain of all old condemned Heretiques and as wickedly implead the Roman Catholick Church of errour are vpon that account like them that is guilty of horrid Sin and Heresy But Protestants do so Ergo they are guilty of horrid Sin and Heresy The Maior is vnquestionable For if our Modern Sectaries exactly close with the mode of all condemned Heretiques it followes thas as those first Apostates for their malice were guilty of Heresy so also these latter are 15. The Minor is easily proued Your ancient Heretiques Our Sectaries accuse like them rebel and would reform as they did accused as boldly the Roman Church then in Being of errour as our modern Sectaries do the present Church They rebelled against it and deserted it so do our Protestants They sought to reform it so would our Protestants For example The Arians were as earnest to reform the Churches Doctrin
very Calumny without more and their own vnproued Suppositions serue both for proof and Answer We demand Again Questions proposed â— when the Church failed when or in what Age the Church became thus accursed and traiterous to Christ They fob vs off with fooleries of beards growing Gray and weeds peeping vp in à garden inperceptibly Is not thy ridiculous We Ask. 3. Seing the world was neuer Since the Apostles preached without an Orthodox Christian what other pure Church succeded in place of Roman supposed Idolatrous How many different Churches will Sectaries own why Should the Protestants Reformation be better then that of the Arians Society what other pure Church succeeded in place of the Roman now supposed Idolatrous and heretical None hitherto has offerred to answer this Question nor can it be Answered vnless Sectaries admit two or three distinct different Churches The first Primitiue and pure the second corrupted which came in when the Roman Catholick began her supposed Idolatry The third again pure and spotless which closely followed the Roman fallen into Errour And this is à meer chimera We lastly demand why this Protestant Reformation should be more lik'd more look'd on or held any wayes better then those precedent Reformations of their elder Brethern the Donatists or Others Will it be said Protestants came after the rest or in the last place and therefore think themselues more skilful the only gifted men in this business of mending Religion Plead thus I answer They speak improbably and are worse then all their Predecessors vpon this very account that hauing For one weighty reason it is far worse seen the Malice the weak Attempts the vnlucky successe of defeated Heretiques in former Ages will not learn by such woful examples to be more wise and wary then to run the Risque with them and thereby to incurr God's heauy Indignation 29. Whoeuer desires to make à further inspection into that The improbability of Protestanism further declared in à very vnequal Parallel The first reuerenced the other scorn'd The one hath à head the other is headles Tradition teaches the one fancy the other The one far and neer diffused the other hid in corners Councils and no Councils Vnity and Diuisions visible Pastors and inuisible Compared together high improbability which other Christians Charge Protestancy with may please to compare à little our Catholick Religion with this other late risen Nouelty If things be well weighed without Controuersy so euident that they need no Proof The first will be found alwayes reuerenced and neuer opposed by Orthodox Christians Contrarywise the other will appear an obiect of scorn not only to the wisest of the world but also to innumerable that professe it against their own Consciences The One hath an Ecclesiastical Head for its Guide The other is an vngouernable Body without head or ioynts to tye its iarring parts together The One shewes you manifest and most euident Miracles The other if euer nature wrought Miracles à Miraculous boldnes to deny the greatest wonders God hath wrought by the Church The One teaches what it anciently receiued by à neuer interrupted Tradition The other what is suggested by euery Priuate Phansy The one is diffused the whole world ouer The other only Creeps vp and down in à few Corners of these Northern parts in so much that some Religious Orders are further extended than Protestancy The One hath had seueral Oëcumenical learned Councils The other neuer any learned or vnlearned The one still retain's à strict vnity in Faith the other manifestly is torn in pieces with Diuisions The one giues you à large Catologue of its ancient visible Pastors and visible professors for full Sixteen Ages The other cannot name one Protestant Village nor one Protestant man before the dayes of the vnfortunate Luther 30. The one hold's its Catholick deceased Ancestors worthy respect and veneration The other makes them all besotted Idolaters Respect and à high dishonour and worse then mad men The one Religion Stand's firmly built vpon plain Scripture and the Authority of an euidenced vniuersal Church The other vtterly vnprincipl'd has not one word of Holy writ for it nor either vniuersal or particular Church which euer taught Protestancy The one has Principles and no Principles An Interpreter and no Interpreter Faith and no faith Infallibility and fallibility à An ancient Possession an open vrong Diuine Assistance and no Diuine Assistance à Mysterious Bible and à certain Interpreter the other à meer body without à Soul the bare letter without life words without sense and Phansy to Interpret The one resolues its faith into God's infallible Reuelation the other has nothing like Faith to resolue The one Religion Proues its truths Infallible The other seek's for fallible Doctrin and has found enough of what is both fallible and false also An Ancient Possession vphold's the One and à publick iniurious rebellion against the Mother Church giues the other all the Right it hath The Professors of the one proue God to haue been the Author of it who yet preserues it vnalterable and pure by Diuine Assistance The Professors of the other say plainly that God neuer reuealed one Article of their reformed Protestancy and therefore need no Diuine Assistance to preserue it The Professors of the One shew you à Church gloriously marked with Signes and Wonders peculiar effects of God's Infinite Power and Wisdome which make the Religion euidently Credible to Reason The Professors of the other in lieu of such Marks Shew you A glorious euidenced Church and a meer Naked Nothing parallel'd à bare Naked Nothing without Miracles without Conuersions without austerity or any thing that appear's like à work of God in it and therefore is most euidently incredible 31. Thus much for an Essay only which might be further enlarged but its needles for you haue euery particular proued in the Treatise here in your hands If our Aduersaries hold themselues or cause iniured whilst we so highly extol the one What 's required if our Aduersaries hold their Cause wronged Religion and extenuate the other to Improbability it will methinks be very easy to right Both by shewing plainly vpon sound and very sound Principles wherein our mistakes lie or in what substantial Matter we haue erred But still remember Principles 32. What I here propose Seem's reasonable and 't is done for this sole end Almighty God knowes that after our long The sole End why we propose this Debates it may at last appear to euery one on which side Truth stand's Now if vpon so faire an Offer we haue nothing return'd but Sectaries wonted strain of Cauils trim'd vp with pretty ieers I for my part haue done and shall in place of Arguing further mildly exhort as Blessed S. Austin once did in We exhort with Blessed S. Austin à like Occasion De Vnit. Ecclesiae C. 19. fine Sâ— auâ—em non potestes quod tam iuste à vobis flagitamus ostendere Credite veritati Conticescite Obdormiscite à furore expergiscimini ad salutem If you Sectaries cannot Conuince our Church guilty of errour by vndeniable Principles this we iustly require Belieue Truth Let your weak Attempts and fury sleep Surcease from this friuolous And appeal to their own guilty Consciences charging vs with Heresy and Idolatry You know Gentlemen you know full well we are no Idolaters your own Consciences tell you your Plea is naught your Cause vndefensible Expergisâ—imini ad Salutem Wake open your drowsy eyes and look about you 33. You se our Noble England set on fire by your vnfortunate dissentions concerning Religion bring your teares to After â— long drawsy sleep its time to wake quench the flames You se your Selues vpon your different Engagements some brain-sick with Fanaticism some with no man knowes what worrying one another Wonder nothing it must needs be so whilst you are out of the peaceable Fold of Christ's vnited Church You haue been too long Prodigal Children straying from the house of God return with à hearty Peccaui A tender Mother the Catholick Church is willing to receiue you and à good old Father Christs Vicar vpon earth as ready to embrace you with open armes You se Atheism enters and is rife among you pernicious Leuiathans and other like Monsters range vp and down and poyson innumerable How Should it be otherwise Atheism followes vpon what you haue done For those who Separate from the true Church soon Separate from Christ also and cannot after that double Diuorce long Continue Friends to God Wherefore once more Expergisâ—imini ad salutem be The Authors hearty wish vigilant Hora est iam nos de somno surgere it now high time to wake Your Concern is no less à Matter then eternal Saluation My earnest prayer is that Christ our Lord the Light of the world may break through the thick cloudes of all darken'd hearts and with the radiant beams of Diuine Grace illuminate euery one Ad salutem to endles Bliss and Happines FINIS
strain as is already declared Hence I say this part of the Dialogue is so inuincible à proof against Protestants in behalf The Centurist's Censure Theoderet of the real Presence that it cannot be answered and therefore the Centurist's with other Hereticks quoted by Brereley pag. 111. and pag. 258. hauing charged S. Chrisostome with the Doctrin of Transubstantiation censure Theoderet vpon the same score as one that speak's dangerously in the matter These men it seem's saw no great force in the later part of the Dialogue which our modern Protestants so much vrge and followes thus 16. When Eranistes had asserted that the Symbols by the inuocation of the Priest are changed and made other things and from that change inferred that our Lords body after his Ascension was conuerted into the Diuine substance The Orthodox Answer 's Thou art caught in the netts thou hast wouen Theodoret's Assertion For the Mystical symbols after Sanctification go not away from their nature For they remain in their former essence and figure and form and â—â—y be seen and touched aâ— before But yet they are vnderstood to be those things which they are made and belieued and adored to be those things as they are belieued Thus the Latin interpreter render's Theoderet's words you shall haue presently an other Lection though truely to read them as you see here after due reflection made vpon the precedent part of the Dialogue is so fully enough to ascertain euery one of this learned Father's meaning that I wonder any iudicious Man can scruple at it The genuin sense is Thou Eranistes maintain's that the visible circumscribed body of our His whole sense declared Sauiour was after his Ascension swallowed as it were vp or totally changed into his Godhead To illustrate this thy Doctrin thou takest à proof from the Mystical signes or Symbols of the blessed Sacrament and not only from the inward substance of bread which thou acknowledgest changed I tell thee thou art caught in thy own net the parity fail's there for the Mystical signes remain to sense as before in the same exteriour form and substance they are seen felt c. Darest thou Eranistes say Christ's sacred body retain's yet the same exteriour form it had on earth Has it yet in Heauen the same dimensions as these symbols haue after Consecration Is it visible or extended Answer as thou pleasest Here is an vnanswerable Dilemma for thee Either thou maintains't that A dilemma Chris'ts glorious body is now visible and extended as the Symbols of the Sacrament are Or contrariwise not sensible not seen not extended Grant the first Thou denies't thy own Doctrin and must assert that his whole glorious body is not conuerted into the Godhead Grant the second or say it has not the same exteriour form the same visibility and extension Thy instance and proofs taken from the Symbols of the Sacrament are Eo ipso made null and forcelesse for these signes keep the same form as before they are perceptible to sense extended c. and thus thou art both caught and conuinced 17. By what is now said you find Theoderet's discourse most solid against the Heretick who would needs infer grounding himselfe vpon the change made in the Sacrament that Christ's whole humane nature was conuerted into the Diuinity Thus much saith Theoderet is euidently false for these Symbols remain in their exteriour form vnaltered but Chris'ts humane body with thee remain's not so for all in it the very exteriour is changed into the Godhead Therefore thy proof taken from the symbols Theoderet only speak's of the Species or accidents remaining of the Sacrament not changed at all is void of strength faint and weightlesse Now that Theoderet speak's only of the outward symbols of the Sacrament is manifest First by what is noted already where he saith we are partakers of the true body and blood of Christ 2. By his answer to the Heretick where he openly professeth that though these symbols are seen and handled as before yet to the vnderstanding and Faith they contain the things we truely belieue That is Christ's real body and blood And thus much He proues in the following words where he asserts that they are to be adored no otherwise than Christ's immortal body is now adored sitting at the right hand of His Father for in both places as you may read in the text the same word of Diuine honour is referred to Christ in the Sacrament and now glorious in heauen 18. You must here haue à word of the other Lection already hinted at which clear's all and takes away the least shadow of à difficulty The most eminent and learned Cardinal Perron propound's it and proues it also absolutely the best by six stronge Arguments Liu. 2. De L'Eucharistie Chap. 12. P. 539. First Theodorets Text dubious saith he There is certainly in Theoderet's Greek Text à dubious form of speaking perhaps vsed on set purpose because of some Auditors present not yet initiated or first instructed in these Mysteries The Original words are thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. That is The symbols remain in their former essence and figure and form and may be seen c. But read them thus saith the Cardinal by à Transposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. That is For they remain and iâ— the form and in the figure of the first substance and all difficulty How the Cardinal read's ceases For by this construction Theoderet only sayes the accidents or species of bread and wine remain intimating nothing at all of any inward substance of bread remaining nay his whole context supposes the inward substances changed into Christs body 19. If this Construction be admitted so that the Genitiue case 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be as it is à Genitiue and the other two follow in form of Latin ablatiues you haue this Connatural sense Manent in priâ—â—â— essentiae formâ figurâ The Symbols remain in the form and figure of their first essence which preiudices nothing the real Transmutation of bread into Christ's body but much confirm's it But such à Construction add's the learned Cardinal or Transposition of words is not only possible but very frequent in the Greek Language whereof he giues examples and one out of Theoderet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is The body of our Lord of the nature In lieu of saying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est The body of the nature of our Lord. 20. The Cardinal maintain's the construction now giuen both as the more elegant and most agreable to Theoderet's whole context for many sound reasons Here is one taken from the Authors very next words But they are vnderstood to be those things which they are made and belieued and adored How Adored As they are truely belieued That is as containing the true body and The reason why he read's so blood of Christ For were this not really so Christ could not be adored For as
granted so much The Argument is clearly proposed Mr Stillingfleet return's no probable Answer A full discouery of his fallacies 1. SOme may think the particular Matter now hinted at too largely handled being scarce worth halfe the labour here spent vpon it And They iudge right Should I once so much as offer to proue as Mr Stillingfleet fondly Imagin's the Roman Catholick Church à safe way to saluation because Protestants Say so Far bee it from mee to entertain such à Thought For whether They side with vs or not Wee haue absolute Absolute Certainty of Faith without dependence of Sectaries Certainty of our Faith independently of Their suffrages or Voting vs in à Secure way to Heauen Wherefore Should Sectaries recoile And say wee are all damned as some haue done wee regard it not That would no more Lessen the Certainty wee now haue of sound Faith than Their Casual Granting vs Saluation in the way wee are in Heightens it 2. 'T is true were it doubtful or no more but Probable whether Catholicks Could bee saued in their Religion The agreeing of Sectaries with vs might serue for something But now when the Certainty of our Doctrin Stand's as wee here Suppose most secure vpon an Infallible Principle which is Church Authority The Proof taken from the Agreement of both Parties is an Impertinency And in real Truth De subiecto non supponente That is Not to bee supposed if which is euer to bee noted wee should goe about to strengthen our Catholick Doctrin because Heretiques Agree with vs. 3. Howeuer though the Agreement Considered in it selfe beâ— no more but à fallible Protestant Opinion yet laid by the other indubitable Doctrin of the Catholick Church 'T is à Truth as asserted by them And ties their tongues so fast that They shall Neuer hereafter speak à probable word against our Catholick Faith Again the Concession presses Sectaries Ad hominem who admit Scripture vpon the General Agreement of all Called Christians If therefore They argue well Both you Catholicks and wee Protestants hold these books Diuine Ergo They are so Wee Argue as strongly Both Parties also grant saluation to Catholicks An Argument against them vpon their Concession ergo They are so secure that it is impossible to plead against the Truth Though as I said now The Sectaries Concession heightens not one whit our Certainty whereof you may see more n. 20. In the Interim please to know The only reason why I discuss this Controuersy more at Large is first to discouer Mr Stillingfleets gross fallacies Next to Show that Protestants are forced at last to Put an End to Controuersies Seeing the most Learned that euer wrote ingenuously acknowledge the Roman Catholick Faith to bee à safe secure and abundantly sufficient Means to attain Saluation which is to say A true belieuing Catholick Cannot bee Damned vpon the Account of Wanting Faith if other Christian Duties bee Complyed with 4. Now if you Ask what forced Sectaries to grant thus much to Catholicks I answer it was no kindness God knowes But stark shame to touch here on no other Motiue which extorted the Concession from them For would not both Heauen and earth haue Clamour'd had They damned all their own Ancestors all the learned and ignorant of the Roman Catholick Church far and neer extended for want of Diuine Faith Yet this followes Because without Faith it is impossible to please God And thus they stand perplexed Allow sauing faith to the Roman Catholick Their Plea is ended Deny it They send millions and millions of Souls to Hell Thus much premised I Argue 5. That Faith which the Roman Catholick Church and Protestants The Ground of our Doctrin also iointly own as sufficient to bring à man to Heauen is intirely perfect And cannot be rationally opposed by either Party But the Faith of à true belieuing Catholick is such à Faith Therefore it is entirely perfect And cannot be more rationally Opposed Now further If it stand's thus firm vpon Church Authority That 's the certain Principle And the Concâ—ssion of Aduersaries As an ouer-measure though weightles it cannot be rationally excepted against by either both Parties owning it sufficient to Saluation Therefore All controuersies concerning Faith are clearly ended in behalf of Catholicks Vnless meer Cauils may pass for rational Arguments 6. It is truly Pitiful to see how vainly Mr Stillingfleet Part. 3. C. 4. Page 611. striues to Euert the force of this short Discourse Sometimes The difficulty is not so much as touched by him Sometimes Hee mistakes the Question And euer beggs it Now He run's away with half à Principle which lead's in à lame Conclusion Now false Suppositions pass for Proofs Now Protestant Opinions enter in as sound Doctrin Here he wrong's our Catholick Authors There He contradict's himselfe In à word you haue nothing through His whole fourth Chapter But I know not what strange Confusion Thus He Begins 7. Protestants confess there is à Pissibility for some to escape Damnation The Aduersaries discourse in the Communion of the Roman Church But it is as men may escape with their liues in Shipwrack But they Protestants vndertake to make it euident There can be no danger if they obserue the Principles of Protestant Religion Mark first How strait hearted The man is in granting as little as may be viz. A meer Possibility And of some only to be saued in the Roman Faith hoping Thereby to remoue his own Ancestors and Millions of Pious Christians as far from Heauen as à Possibility conceiued by Him is from an Actual Being I know other Protestants speak more roundly And say absolutely Saluation may be had in the Roman Catholick Church because it is à true Church in Fundamentals And that the differences betweem them And vs are about lesser Matters or meer Opinions c. See Mr. Thorndicke in his Book of Forbearance page 19. Therefore Mr. Stillingfleets lean bare and remote Possibility of Saluation is only his own particular Opinion Proved weak and vnconcluding Howeuer though he see 's not the Consequence Wee haue enough to conclude against him I 'le s'hew you how 8. There is Saith he A posibility of being Saved in the Romam Catholick Faith That is Catholick Religion has in it à Possibility of bringing men to Heauen if there be nothing wanting on Their parts Very Good This Possibility intrinsecal To the Religion is now as actually in Being as the Religion it Selfe But the Religion is actually in being Therefore this Possibility inseparable from it is also Actual And lies not in the Series of things yet producible as Creatures doe which God if he please may Create to morrow And thus you see Possibility stand's here not opposite to non-Existency but to an Actual impossibility Therefore when I say Catholick Religion now existing can possibly saue All I say with the same breath it cannot possibly damn Any Unless you 'l Grant it can saue All and damn some which is
bread This is our Doctrin concerning your miscalled Eucharist we allow you no more and Therefore vtterly dissent from you 26. You add presently à great vntruth And I wonder you could speak it without blushing The greatest men of our Perswasion as Suarez and Bellarmin say you assert the belief of Transubstantiation not to be simply necessary to Saluation Ignorance or Malice or both had certainly à hand here For they say no such thing I Ascribe much to the first moued thereunto by your following words And that the Manner of it is secret and ineffable Dear Sr were Christ really present without Transubstantiation as Luther held The manner of his existing with bread might yet be secret and ineffable But would this inferr à denial of his ineffable Presence All that Catholick Authors say is That the modus existâ—ndi or Our Aduersaries Mistake Manner of his existing in the Sacrament is secret and ineffable euen with Transubstantiation do they Therefore hold the verity not simply necessary to Saluation or boggle at the Doctrin of Transubstantiation You belieue à Trinity of Persons in one Diuine Essence it 's hard for you to express the Manner how God is one and three distinct Persons yet you belieue the Mystery And hold that belief necessary to Saluation Diuines eudeauour to explicate the Manner of Christs ineffable Presence in the Eucharist but when all is done you haue no more from Then but Opinions And so it fall's out in the other Mystery of the Trinity where Schoolmen vary in their explicating Quomodo How God can be one in Essence And three distinct Persons Yet they hold the belief of the Mystery after à due Proposal absolutly necessary to Saluation And thus they discourse of Christs ineffable Presence in the Eucharist The Quomodo or Manner of his being there is difficult And cannot be clearly laid forth to weak Reason yet that perplexeth not our Faith whereby wee submissively yeild to what God speakes without further curiosity 27. Your other instances Page 620. are quite besides the business Christ you say instituted the Sacrament in both kinds The Primitiue Christians receiued in both What then Ergo Other instances refuted Christ commanded both to laicks is no Consequence nor agreed on by Catholicks 2. Both Churches say you Agree that the Eucharist is à Sacrifice of duty of Praise of Commemoration c. You know we absolutly deny your Supposition and say you haue no true Sacrifice consequently neither praise God nor Commemorate Christs Passion but grievously offend him in your taking à bare piece of bread Here is no Agreement And thus we speak of your Mass or Liturgy For there was neuer Mass in the without à true Sacrifice you haue no Sacrifice Ergo no Mass Church The grossest errour therefore is that you haue rased out the Sacrifice most essential to à Liturgy 28. Page 621. You say His Lordship Answers truly that the Agreement of differing parties is no Metaphysical Principle The Contingent proposition but à bare contingent Proposition which may be true or false as the matter is to which it is applyed Answ A contingent Proposition What 's this Sr If you mean that the Protestant party vented it by chance I 'le not quarrel with you But out it is in print And applied to the Possibility of Saluation which you allow Catholicks Let this concession stand it cannot but be true vnless you say Both parties err in the Assertion And then we are not only out of the Question but highly blame you vpon this account That all your pains in discussing sc largely the matter hitherto has been to no purpose For one line might haue ended All had you plainly Said We Protestants fouly erred when we granted Saluation to Catholicks in their own Religion Be it how you will I say this Proposition Saluation may be had in Catholick Religion is So true that it cannot be false because the greatest Authority on earth the vniuersal Church of Christ own 's it as an vndoubted verity and could this possibly be à falshood neither we nor Protestants can belieue any thing which the Church teaches as is amply proued in the second Discourse c. For to what purpose should I belieue the Trinity the Incarnation the Creed or any thing els when Is so true that is cannot be false that Church which proclaims these as Truths may after all damn me The very uglines of such à thought carries horrour with it And stark shame decries it as Abominable Your Lord and you say next The consent of disagreeing parties is neither Rule nor proof of truth No man can resolue his Faith into it but Truth rather is or should be the Rule to frame if not to force Agreement Answ All this is very right Therefore we neuer make your consent either Rule or proof of any Catholick Verity much less do wee resolue our Faith into your Agreement Church Doctrin Stands firm without you it was true before you were in being And the euidence of it forced you to consent with vs. Now à word to your other two or three instances And. 29. In real truth Sr I much wonder you saw not their Lameness before you thrust them into your Page 621. And that you would fain allow them Strength to weaken this Truth Wâ—e Other Instances proved weight less and Protestants Agree thus far that Catholick Religion can saue vs c. I say Contrary The instances are so remote from your design That they proue just nothing One is The Orthodox Christians agreed with the Arians that Christ was of like nature with his Father But added Hee was of the same nature Ergo Say you it is safest to hold with the Arians To hold what I beseech you You Answer that Christ was of the like nature Very good That Likeness either excluded the same nature or included it Grant the first you make the Fathers Hereticks which is impossible For they held the same nature common and Consubstantial to the Father and Son If their concession which is true included the same nature The Orthodox party and Arians agreed not in the same hypothesis consequently your instance is to no purpose at all In à word this euer and vnexceptionably holds good The Doctrin which Hereticks Iewes and Turks agree in with Catholicks is most true so you and we agree about saluation now discussed but it doth not follow that so much only or that no more is true Your want of reflecting vpon this Only or no More makes That 's truth wherein Catholicks and Hereticks agree all your instances impertinent And your inferences Ergo It is safest holding with the Arians most vnconcluding For though the Doctrin be true when the Arian side with the Church yet it deriues no absolute safety from that consent of Hereticks 30. Vpon these grounds all the rest which followes fall's to nothing Some dissenting parties Say you agree that there ought to be à Resurrection from Sin
If an Embassadour once be found in an Vntruth when he speaks in his Princes name I think few Monarchs or States will no more belieue him in like occasions Than giue credit to one conuicted The disparity betweâ—n à priuate man erring and the Church of periuery when He swear's vnless what he swear's bee proued true independently of his Oath But let this pass The disparity between à priuate man and the Church is most notorious The First considered as one single and priuate hath no Commission to speak in Gods name or to teach the whole Christian world what is or what is not Christ's Doctrin The Orthodox Church is impowred to do this or to teach nothing if then She err's but once the Errour makes Her infamous redound's to the Dammage of all Christians seduced by Her yea and to God himselfe as is now declared Hence I say the Church cannot teach truth by halfes as Sectaries would haue Her or now Hit right now miss She cannot be Orthodox in à few main Matters called Fundamental and erroneous in others No. She is either Gods Vice-gerent in all She deliuer's as points of Faith or in nothing She must when she pretend's to speak in Gods name truly do so or She cannot speak nor pretend to speak but must be silent This Verity is further laid forth in the Chapters now cited where we treat of the Churches Infallibility 14. In the mean while if any Should Obiect The Church vainly pretend's to be so far an Oracle of Truth as not to impose on us false Doctrin And then demand from whence She had this Whether our whole Discourse tend's Priuiledge of Infallibility I Answer Whoeuer trifles with such obiections in this place to be solued hereafter little vnderstand's the force of our Arguments Mark I beseech you It is now à supposed Principle Sectaries will haue it so that the Roman Catholick Church hath forged new Articles and imposed the beliefe of them on Christians which God neuer Reuealed Grant thus much She iniures God sin's damnably And therefore is no Orthodox Church But if She neither now be Orthodox nor was so ten Ages before Luther There was not then nor is yet any true Christian Church in the world And consequently Protestants â—aue no Church The more erring Therefore they make the Roman Catholick Church the more are they Churcâ—lesse This is what I Press and express at present and would willingly haue my Argument solued 15. There is yet an other Obiection scarse worth the paper you shall haue it such an one as it is Protestants talk much of A weightless Obiection Papists Blindnes And to free the Roman Church from damnable sin or formal Fundamental Errours may perhaps say She hath indeed erred before Luther and still is Idolatrous But may be excused vpon the Account of inuincible Ignorance Answ What 's this Do we hear talk of inuincible ignorance in à whole learned Church Pray where shall we find knowledge if ignorance haue place here Such ignorance may perhaps be in some particular men But to Tax à whole Church with it is not only to make so many Councils so many profound Doctors as haue taught the world worse than Idiots for à thousand years but it is to iniure Christ to tell Him he has indeed established à Church yet mark'd it so obscurely remoued it so far out of the Sight of Christians that the most learned of all could not discouer the Truths it taught for ten long Ages though all Antiquity Assures vs that Christ's Church is one of the most manifest things in the world Again Suppose our Church were blind and inculpably ignorant who for Gods sake must open Her eyes now and vnbeguile Her Touching vpon the Ignorance of Catholicks Solued Must à few late scattered Sectaries Doe the wonder that are to look to their own vincible ignorance And therefore if learned Sin vpon that account damnably 3. If our Church may be excused vpon the score of ignorance excuse also the Arians less learned the Pelagians the Donatists c. And say there were neuer any formal sinful Hereticks in the world yea Iewes and Turks may thus be acquitted of formal Sin and Errour likewise But aboue all free I beseech you our Sectaries from further pains-taking as also from the least hope of amending Matters were there any thing amiss for you may well rest assured if ignorance hath cast this learned Church into such an Abysse of Errour it is not to be expected that the far weaker knowledge of Protestants can draw Her out of it I wonder men of Modesty dare offer to impute ignorance to the Roman Catholick Church And presume to teach more learned then Themselues CHAP. VI. Other Euidences of the Roman Churches Perseuerance in the Primitiue Faith without change or Alteration VVhether wickednes of life necessarily induceth Errour into the Church The Donatists and Protestants Argue And Err alike 1. I Argue 2. God had euer à true Church preserued free from Errour for so many Thousand years as passed between A second Argument Adam and Christ It stood all that vast time inuincible against Heresy and was neuer stained with false Doctrin The Truth is indubitably owned by Christ our Lord who came not to change so much as one iota of Doctrin taught by the Prophets but only to perfect it by reuealing other Verities not explicitly known before Now Mark à strange Paradox auouched by Sectaries They say boldly That our Christian Catholick Roman Church which certainly God Himselfe established And enriched with his own Verities only continued Orthodox for Three or Four Ages and then O dismal time left off to be what it was lost Christs reuealed Truths became the whore of Babylon Apostated from it Selfe and cheated the world into false Doctrin What saies the prudent Reader Is it Possible that the Ancient Church of Drawn from à most improbable Assertion of Sectaries the Patriarchs and Prophets stood without change or blemish for 4. or 5. Thousand years and Christ's own Spouse became smutched and vgly within the compass of three or 4. Ages Is it Probable that the lesser light of the Synagogue lasted so long And the Glorious sun of Christ's own Church appeared dark and Eclipsed soon after The world had Cast an Eye vpon Her And this to encrease the wonder happened then Sectaries must say when euidently There was no other true Church on earth vnless you will take in Arians Pelagians c and such open Hereticks to make vp à Catholick Society most vnfit all know to teach Christs Orthodox Doctrin I wish Protestants would well ponder the force of this one reason And return an Answer 2. My last Argument is à Demonstration against Sectaries who say There was alwayes an Orthodox visible Church since Christs time For this Article of our Creed was euer professedly true in all Ages I belieue the Holy Catholick Church They say again There was à time when our Roman Catholick