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A53662 Tutamen evangelicum, or, A defence of Scripture-ordination, against the exceptions of T.G. in a book intituled, Tentamen novum proving, that ordination by presbyters is valid, Timothy and Titus were no diocesan rulers, the presbyters of Ephesus were the apostles successors in the government of that church, and not Timothy, the first epistle to Timothy was written before the meeting at Miletus, the ancient Waldenses had no diocesan bishops, &c./ by the author of the Plea for Scripture-ordination. Owen, James, 1654-1706. 1697 (1697) Wing O710; ESTC R9488 123,295 224

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207 Parishes in Crete which divided between twenty five Bishops there falls but Eight Parishes to the share of each Bishop and an over-plus of 7 25 Parts How different were these from Modern Bishopricks A Bishop may better Over-see Eight or Nine Parishes than Eight or Nine Scores of Parishes J. O. Proved that the Church of Ephesus consisted of no more Members than could ordinarily meet in one place because that Church had but one Altar at which the whole Congregation ordinarily Receiv'd the Lord's Supper in Ignatius his time Mr. G. Answers That Ignatius's one Altar signifies not one Numerical P. 143. but one Specifical Altar Then Ignatius's one Bishop must signifie not one Numerical but one Specifical Bishop He thinks there was more than one Numerical Altar because after the Words Alledged by J. O. Ignatius goes on thus Ibid. Let that Eucharist be accounted good and firm which is Celebrated under the Bishop or which he consents to Vnder the Bishop is plainly in his presence and not under his Authority as he explains it as being opposed to his Consent in his absence His consenting that the Presbyters might Administer in his absence doth not prove more than one Altar The Parson of one Parish which hath but one Altar may consent that his Curates may Administer the Eucharist He further proves there were many Altars under Ignatius his Bishop from that Passage Where-ever the Bishop appears there let the People be even as where Jesus Christ is not appears as he falsly renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is the Catholick Church Nothing could have been produced more impertinently than this Passage which shews that the Multitude must be where the Bishop was or appear'd his Appearance must be understood of his personal visible Appearance To talk of an Invisible Appearance is ridiculous And yet you must understand it so saith our Author It is not to be understood of his Person but Authority saith he even as Jesus Christ is with the Catholick Church not in his Person but in his Spiritual Power 1. This is worse and worse Ignatius did not say Where Christ appears as he to serve a Design falsly renders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but where Jesus Christ is Ignatius knew Jesus Christ to be Invisible on Earth since his Ascension and that a Bishop was visible and therefore saith where the Bishop appears 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and where Christ is 2. To deny Christ to be personally present with his Church is to deny him to be the Second Person in the Trinity I hope he believes the Divinity and Omnipresence of our Lord Jesus Christ though in a Transport of Zeal he forgot the Form of Sound Words The Spiritual Power of Christ doth not exclude his Personal Presence Some Men will talk any thing though never so little to the purpose rather than yield to the Evidence of Truth P. 145. He tells us that the Church of Ephesus took in all Asia the proper because all they that dwelt in Asia heard the Word of the Lord Jesus viz. at Ephesus He might as well have said That the Church of Jerusalem took in the Parthians and Dwellers in Mesopotamia Cappadocia Pontus and Asia c. for those heard the Word of the Lord Jesus at Jerusalem Acts 2.9 11. He saith J. O. should have Enter'd the Lists with Dr. Maurice P. 146. who Answer'd Mr. B. and Mr. Cl. about the extent of Bishopricks J. O's Subject being Ordination he was not concern'd in Dr. Maurice's Book though he said something occasionally concerning the Extent of Churches from Ignatius and others He complains J. O. hath troubled them with a New Book upon an Old Subject Ibid. without adding any thing considerable to it It seems J. O's Book hath created some trouble to them but what is the trouble Is it that he writes a New Book upon an Old Subject That cannot be it for the Rector hath done so himself If it be a fault to write upon an Old Subject no Man must write at all for there is scarce any thing New under the Sun Or does it trouble him that J. O. hath not added any thing considerable to the Subject that cannot be also except we suppose his own Performance which has little of Addition to what is found in Bellarmine and other Popish Authors to be a Trouble to him I doubt then something else in the Book troubles him He can tell what it is for he had good Reason why he would not Answer a Book which he undertakes to Answer but contents himself with a few slight Remarks upon two or three Chapters and leaves the greatest part of the Book untouch'd I leave it to such as have read other Authors upon the Subject of Ordination by Presbyters to Judge of J. O's performance whether the Subject has receiv'd any Improvement by it He takes a great deal of Pains to prove what no Body denies P. 146 147 148 149. viz. That 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies sometimes Agreement or Unity and not always one place as J. O. render'd it in those Words of Ignatius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 give diligence to Assemble together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more frequently for when ye often come together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ign. ad Eph. p. 25. or into one place the Powers of Sathan are destroy'd One would think J. O's Translation very natural for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 refers to one place and so must 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which follows immediately after But it ought not to be so render'd here saith our Author And the Proof is There might have been several Places for Worship at Ephesus p. 148. But he does not prove there were several places I have proved the contrary from the one Altar mention'd in Igna. ad magna p. 34. He thinks Ignatius does not intend one place by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 P. 149. because he speaks a little after of the Vnity of their Faith Might they not have Unity of Faith in one place But we have sufficiently prov'd above That Ignatius his Church ordinarily met in one place Dr. Burnet acknowledges there was but one Numerical Altar to one Diocess in Ignatius's time as J. O. quoted him P. 30. Mr. G. passes by the Bishop unsaluted The Learned Mr. Mede confesseth That in those First Times they had but one Altar to a Diocesan Church This he confirms by Instances out of Justin Martyr and out of Cyprian Ep. 40.72 73. De Vnit Eccl. c. Mede of Churches P. 48 49 50. I will not contend with him about the number of Churches built at Constantinople by Constantine the Great but 't is very improbable that they should be two Hundred as he extravagantly talks Socrates mentions but Two Nicephorus speaks of Three Great Temples whereof that of Sophia which he ascribes to Constantine was built by Constantius his Son and was but an Addition to the Temple of Irene He speaks also of Four