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earth_n catholic_n church_n visible_a 2,907 5 9.9387 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A33377 Mr. Claude's answer to Monsieur de Meaux's book, intituled, A conference with Mr. Claude with his letter to a friend, wherein he answers a discourse of M. de Condom, now Bishop of Meaux, concerning the Church.; Reponse au livre de Monsieur l'évesque de Meaux, intitulé Conférence avec M. Claude. English Claude, Jean, 1619-1687.; Bossuet, Jacques Bénigne, 1627-1704. 1687 (1687) Wing C4591; ESTC R17732 130,139 128

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the_o true_a believer_n be_v intermix_v vast_a number_n of_o man_n who_o 〈◊〉_d no_o more_o than_o the_o appearance_n and_o outside_n of_o christianity_n and_o so_o make_v the_o outward_a profession_n to_o be_v a_o note_n subject_n to_o mighty_a uncertainty_n and_o equivocation_n this_o god_n have_v permit_v for_o reason_n know_v to_o his_o own_o wisdom_n and_o hence_o have_v rise_v on_o one_o side_n false_a church_n and_o on_o the_o other_o false_a member_n of_o the_o true_a i_o mean_v whole_a community_n who_o have_v wrongful_o assume_v to_o themselves_o the_o title_n of_o a_o church_n and_o single_a person_n who_o wrongful_o assume_v the_o title_n of_o the_o faithful_a so_o that_o the_o church_n now_o like_o all_o other_o thing_n liable_a to_o hypocrisy_n and_o dissimulation_n can_v be_v true_o know_v without_o much_o difficulty_n and_o whereas_o according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n the_o church_n visibility_n and_o invisibility_n ought_v to_o lie_v here_o that_o its_o 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the_o search_n of_o heart_n be_v not_o in_o our_o power_n but_o peculiar_a to_o god_n charity_n make_v no_o distinction_n but_o suppose_v that_o thing_n be_v in_o truth_n what_o they_o shall_v be_v and_o upon_o this_o supposition_n we_o call_v all_o that_o society_n the_o visible_a church_n speak_v simple_o and_o absolute_o by_o the_o judgement_n of_o reflection_n have_v consult_v the_o rule_n of_o scripture_n and_o the_o light_n of_o experience_n we_o come_v to_o know_v that_o there_o be_v tare_n mix_v with_o the_o wheat_n and_o that_o it_o be_v pass_v a_o doubt_n that_o among_o these_o outward_a professor_n be_v abundance_n of_o hypocritical_a superstitious_a ambitious_a and_o profane_a people_n hence_o we_o correct_v our_o first_o notion_n and_o term_v this_o society_n a_o visible_a mix_a church_n thus_o in_o the_o same_o external_a body_n we_o distinguish_v two_o different_a body_n one_o of_o true_a
believer_n that_o be_v not_o of_o the_o true_a church_n on_o the_o other_o side_n when_o we_o see_v man_n undergo_v long_o sharp_a trial_n without_o be_v remove_v either_o from_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o true_a doctrine_n and_o worship_n or_o from_o that_o of_o righteousness_n and_o holiness_n in_o this_o respect_n here_o be_v make_v a_o positive_a distinction_n and_o such_o as_o make_v we_o acknowledge_v that_o these_o person_n be_v of_o the_o true_a church_n of_o jesus_n christ_n i_o confess_v these_o distinction_n be_v not_o always_o either_o so_o certain_a as_o never_o to_o admit_v of_o mistake_n nor_o so_o universal_a as_o not_o to_o confound_v one_o with_o another_o for_o a_o man_n may_v judge_v rash_o of_o both_o sort_n either_o for_o want_v of_o know_v man_n particular_a circumstance_n and_o the_o motive_n they_o go_v upon_o or_o some_o other_o way_n and_o it_o be_v never_o see_v that_o all_o hypocrite_n discover_v themselves_o at_o once_o but_o however_o there_o be_v 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etc._n which_o be_v that_o body_n where_o god_n have_v place_v several_a member_n and_o different_a grace_n 4._o the_o grace_n of_o ministry_n the_o grace_n of_o teach_v the_o grace_n of_o exhortation_n and_o consolation_n the_o grace_n of_o ruling_n which_o i_o say_v be_v that_o body_n if_o it_o be_v not_o the_o visible_a church_n we_o never_o deny_v the_o visible_a church_n upon_o earth_n to_o be_v christ_n body_n not_o the_o whole_a body_n indeed_o for_o there_o be_v one_o part_n of_o it_o collect_v in_o heaven_n and_o another_o not_o yet_o in_o be_v but_o still_o that_o part_n upon_o earth_n be_v jesus_n christ_n body_n so_o the_o scripture_n call_v it_o and_o we_o be_v so_o far_o from_o think_v as_o he_o say_v that_o quite_o contrary_a we_o prove_v hypocrite_n and_o worldling_n to_o be_v real_o no_o part_n of_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n by_o this_o very_a argument_n that_o it_o be_v call_v in_o scripture_n the_o body_n of_o jesus_n christ_n for_o this_o reason_n the_o visible_a church_n be_v thus_o define_v in_o the_o 27_o article_n of_o our_o confession_n of_o faith_n 1531._o the_o company_n of_o the_o faithful_a agree_v to_o follow_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o that_o pure_a religion_n ground_v thereon_o and_o who_o constant_o make_v proficiency_n therein_o now_o this_o company_n of_o the_o faithful_a thus_o describe_v be_v and_o be_v call_v the_o body_n of_o jesus_n christ_n if_o m._n de_fw-fr condom_n have_v be_v at_o the_o pain_n to_o read_v calvin_n he_o will_v find_v he_o speak_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o four_o book_n of_o his_o institution_n chap._n 1._o thus_o 1588._o it_o be_v no_o ordinary_a commendation_n the_o scripture_n give_v it_o when_o it_o be_v say_v ephes_n 5._o 26_o 27._o that_o christ_n have_v choose_v it_o and_o separate_v it_o for_o his_o spouse_n to_o make_v she_o without_o spot_n and_o wrinkle_n his_o body_n and_o his_o fullness_n m._n mestrezzat_n speak_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o same_o sense_n say_v 1649._o the_o instrument_n make_v use_v of_o by_o god_n to_o build_v his_o church_n be_v the_o pastor_n and_o minister_n of_o his_o gospel_n ephes_n 1._o 23._o according_a to_o that_o of_o st._n paul_n ephes_n 4._o he_o have_v give_v some_o apostle_n and_o some_o prophet_n and_o some_o evangelist_n and_o some_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n for_o the_o gather_v together_o the_o saint_n for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n for_o the_o edify_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o a_o little_a after_o 33._o the_o same_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v invisible_a as_o to_o the_o election_n of_o god_n and_o inward_a sanctification_n of_o the_o heart_n enjoy_v the_o visible_a ministry_n of_o the_o word_n and_o from_o it_o bring_v forth_o fruit_n unto_o salvation_n for_o we_o must_v not_o look_v for_o the_o church_n of_o god_n out_o of_o this_o visible_a state_n of_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o word_n the_o same_o thing_n i_o say_v with_o relation_n to_o that_o other_o passage_n of_o st._n paul_n where_o he_o say_v ephes_n 5._o 25_o 26_o 27._o jesus_n christ_n love_v the_o church_n and_o give_v himself_o for_o it_o that_o he_o may_v sanctify_v and_o cleanse_v it_o with_o the_o wash_n of_o water_n by_o the_o word_n that_o he_o may_v present_v it_o to_o himself_o a_o glorious_a church_n not_o have_v spot_n or_o wrinkle_n they_o will_v not_o have_v it_o possible_a say_v m._n de_fw-fr condom_n conference_n page_n 5._o for_o this_o place_n to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n not_o yet_o of_o the_o church_n on_o earth_n he_o must_v pardon_v i_o if_o i_o say_v he_o be_v mistake_v for_o though_o we_o understand_v by_o this_o the_o church_n already_o in_o heaven_n yet_o do_v we_o beside_o understand_v the_o visible_a church_n upon_o earth_n and_o m._n mestrezzat_n speak_v of_o this_o passage_n say_v express_o 50._o that_o st._n paul_n there_o set_v forth_o the_o church_n as_o one_o and_o the_o same_o body_n receive_v grace_n and_o glory_n and_o make_v glory_n to_o be_v the_o perfection_n and_o accomplishment_n of_o grace_n it_o be_v evident_a then_o that_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v in_o our_o opinion_n jesus_n christ_n body_n or_o which_o come_v all_o to_o one_o that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n upon_o earth_n be_v visible_a i_o shall_v now_o conclude_v my_o three_o enquiry_n do_v i_o not_o think_v myself_o under_o a_o obligation_n to_o remove_v some_o difficulty_n which_o may_v be_v start_v upon_o it_o for_o it_o may_v be_v say_v the_o ministry_n be_v common_a to_o good_a and_o bad_a and_o consequent_o it_o make_v a_o church_n compose_v of_o good_a man_n and_o bad_a i_o answer_v that_o the_o ministry_n and_o the_o use_n of_o it_o be_v common_a both_o to_o good_a and_o bad_a come_v to_o pass_v only_o by_o accident_n and_o from_o the_o treachery_n of_o the_o enemy_n of_o right_v it_o belong_v to_o true_a believer_n only_o and_o its_o genuine_a design_n be_v for_o they_o jesus_n 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and_o flourish_a but_o these_o be_v only_o the_o putting_n out_o of_o some_o particular_a light_n and_o do_v not_o at_o all_o prejudice_n either_o the_o subsistence_n or_o visibility_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n in_o general_n the_o last_o difficulty_n to_o be_v urge_v be_v whether_o the_o church_n can_v at_o any_o time_n lose_v the_o visibility_n of_o its_o character_n i_o mean_v that_o visibility_n whereby_o without_o descend_v to_o personal_a distinction_n we_o be_v enable_v to_o conclude_v that_o there_o be_v true_a believer_n in_o this_o mix_a society_n so_o far_o as_o that_o we_o can_v not_o judge_v whether_o such_o be_v there_o or_o no_o i_o answer_v it_o not_o only_o may_v but_o often_o have_v happen_v that_o the_o character_n by_o which_o we_o shall_v in_o this_o respect_n come_v to_o know_v the_o true_a church_n have_v be_v so_o mighty_o obscure_v that_o a_o man_n can_v not_o without_o much_o trouble_n and_o difficulty_n affirm_v that_o in_o this_o particular_a body_n it_o be_v that_o god_n nourish_v and_o sustain_v his_o true_a believer_n and_o we_o shall_v find_v hereafter_o that_o m._n de_fw-fr condom_n himself_o own_v enough_o to_o establish_v the_o truth_n of_o this_o assertion_n but_o still_o though_o this_o be_v contestable_a as_o prove_v to_o be_v plain_a matter_n of_o fact_n we_o do_v notwithstanding_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o church_n do_v never_o absolute_o and_o entire_o lose_v their_o visibility_n in_o this_o respect_n because_o as_o be_v say_v in_o answer_n to_o the_o prejudices_fw-la we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o ever_o so_o total_a a_o eclipse_n happen_v that_o it_o can_v not_o in_o some_o measure_n be_v say_v this_o be_v the_o society_n wherein_o god_n preserve_v some_o true_a believer_n and_o here_o i_o can_v but_o complain_v of_o what_o m._n de_fw-fr condom_n do_v afterward_o in_o his_o discourse_n accuse_v we_o of_o 12._o say_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n sometime_o cease_v to_o be_v they_o be_v constrain_v say_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n sometime_o cease_v to_o be_v upon_o earth_n and_o in_o another_o place_n this_o be_v the_o church_n which_o your_o minister_n know_v not_o they_o teach_v you_o that_o this_o visible_a and_o exterior_a church_n may_v cease_v to_o be_v upon_o earth_n but_o this_o be_v urge_v his_o charge_n against_o we_o too_o far_o so_o far_o be_v we_o from_o believe_v the_o visible_a church_n cease_v to_o be_v that_o we_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o say_v it_o ever_o absolute_o cease_v to_o be_v visible_a and_o yet_o there_o will_v be_v a_o mighty_a difference_n between_o say_v she_o cease_v to_o be_v visible_a and_o that_o she_o cease_v to_o be_v at_o all_o the_o sun_n the_o most_o visible_a thing_n in_o the_o world_n be_v often_o not_o visible_a to_o our_o eye_n but_o yet_o he_o cease_v not_o to_o be_v in_o the_o point_n of_o real_a presence_n m._n de_fw-fr condom_n will_v own_v that_o the_o body_n
who_o instead_o of_o adhere_v to_o the_o people_n error_n or_o dissemble_v they_o rose_z up_o against_o they_o with_o force_n and_o this_o succession_n be_v so_o constant_a 15._o that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n fear_v not_o to_o say_v that_o god_n rise_v up_o night_n and_o morning_n 4._o and_o daily_o admonish_v the_o people_n by_o the_o mouth_n of_o his_o prophet_n m._n de_fw-fr condom_n must_v give_v we_o leave_v to_o make_v some_o observation_n upon_o this_o passage_n the_o first_o of_o which_o be_v that_o in_o the_o corruption_n of_o israel_n heretofore_o when_o the_o public_a worship_n and_o ordinary_a ministry_n suffer_v such_o depravation_n there_o be_v not_o any_o where_o in_o the_o world_n another_o public_a worship_n or_o another_o ministry_n that_o be_v preserve_v in_o purity_n and_o perfection_n so_o that_o if_o man_n must_v needs_o have_v look_v for_o the_o church_n in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n live_v under_o their_o ordinary_a pastor_n and_o in_o the_o public_a 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messenger_n of_o god_n and_o despise_v his_o word_n and_o misuse_v his_o prophet_n which_o show_v that_o both_o people_n and_o priest_n be_v general_o corrupt_v and_o the_o church_n reduce_v to_o a_o remnant_n i_o confess_v some_o certain_a person_n of_o this_o remnant_n do_v not_o keep_v silence_n but_o instead_o of_o adhere_v to_o or_o dissemble_v the_o people_n error_n oppose_v they_o strong_o but_o beside_o that_o a_o great_a many_o more_o no_o question_n sigh_v in_o secret_a for_o these_o thing_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o this_o remnant_n do_v not_o make_v a_o separate_a body_n by_o themselves_o nor_o exercise_v any_o public_a worship_n different_a from_o the_o rest_n and_o consequent_o the_o church_n visibility_n though_o not_o whole_o extinct_a yet_o be_v mighty_o darken_v and_o diminish_v and_o that_o be_v all_o we_o will_v infer_v from_o hence_o my_o three_o observation_n be_v that_o there_o be_v indeed_o in_o that_o ancient_a people_n a_o continue_a succession_n of_o prophet_n and_o as_o m._n de_fw-fr condom_n say_v a_o prophetical_a ministry_n ordinary_a with_o the_o people_n 19_o where_o the_o prophet_n make_v a_o order_n always_o subsist_v whence_o god_n continual_o draw_v divine_a man_n by_o who_o mouth_n he_o speak_v loud_o and_o public_o to_o all_o his_o people_n but_o then_o we_o must_v say_v withal_o that_o the_o body_n of_o this_o order_n of_o prophet_n be_v every_o whit_n as_o corrupt_v as_o the_o priest_n and_o people_n this_o can_v be_v deny_v for_o the_o scripture_n affirm_v it_o express_o 8._o the_o priest_n say_v not_o where_o be_v the_o lord_n and_o they_o that_o shall_v minister_v the_o law_n know_v i_o not_o the_o pastor_n also_o offend_v against_o i_o and_o the_o prophet_n prophesy_v in_o baal_n 8._o the_o prophet_n prohesie_n lie_v and_o the_o priest_n bear_v rule_v by_o their_o mean_n and_o my_o people_n love_n to_o have_v it_o so_o i_o have_v hear_v what_o the_o prophet_n say_v 27._o that_o prophecy_n lie_v in_o my_o name_n say_v i_o have_v dream_v how_o long_o shall_v this_o be_v in_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o prophet_n that_o prophecy_n lie_v yea_o they_o be_v prophet_n of_o the_o deceit_n of_o their_o own_o heart_n which_o think_v to_o cause_v my_o people_n to_o forget_v my_o name_n by_o their_o dream_n which_o they_o tell_v every_o man_n to_o his_o neighbour_n as_o their_o father_n have_v forget_v my_o name_n for_o baal_n and_o a_o vast_a number_n of_o passage_n to_o the_o like_a purpose_n so_o that_o we_o can_v say_v there_o be_v at_o that_o time_n any_o visible_a body_n that_o oppose_v the_o corruption_n or_o maintain_v the_o worship_n of_o god_n in_o its_o genuine_a purity_n the_o prophet_n by_o who_o god_n speak_v so_o loud_o and_o public_o be_v only_o look_v upon_o as_o private_a person_n of_o a_o opinion_n different_a from_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o society_n and_o therefore_o how_o loud_o and_o public_o soever_o they_o speak_v if_o in_o order_n to_o the_o constitute_v a_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v necessary_a to_o find_v a_o body_n or_o society_n of_o man_n make_v profession_n of_o pure_a doctrine_n m._n de_fw-fr condom_n must_v acknowledge_v that_o there_o be_v not_o then_o any_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o world_n and_o now_o sir_n give_v i_o leave_v i_o beseech_v you_o to_o ask_v with_o what_o pretence_n to_o reason_n man_n can_v still_o cavil_v at_o this_o instance_n of_o the_o corruption_n in_o israel_n heretofore_o and_o not_o own_o it_o for_o a_o sensible_a proof_n that_o confirm_v most_o of_o the_o truth_n establish_v in_o the_o former_a part_n of_o this_o letter_n in_o it_o you_o see_v the_o several_a body_n that_o make_v up_o the_o ordinary_a ministry_n all_o of_o they_o ensnare_v in_o idolatry_n and_o false_a worship_n in_o it_o you_o see_v the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o people_n blind_o follow_v the_o exorbitancy_n of_o their_o guide_n in_o it_o you_o see_v the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n subsist_v not_o in_o a_o exterior_a society_n enjoy_v its_o minister_n assembly_n and_o public_a worship_n peculiar_a to_o its_o self_n but_o in_o some_o reserve_a person_n that_o still_o maintain_v their_o integrity_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o all_o these_o confusion_n in_o it_o you_o see_v god_n himself_o and_o after_o he_o st._n paul_n make_v his_o true_a people_n to_o consist_v in_o these_o person_n so_o reserve_v all_o this_o prove_v and_o proclaim_v to_o the_o world_n that_o the_o true_a church_n consist_v of_o true_a believer_n only_o that_o this_o church_n be_v not_o otherwise_o visible_a but_o as_o mix_v with_o wicked_a man_n and_o reprobate_n that_o this_o mixture_n do_v sometime_o so_o obscure_v it_o that_o it_o be_v very_o difficult_a to_o come_v to_o a_o knowledge_n of_o it_o that_o it_o do_v nevertheless_o still_o subsist_v even_o in_o that_o state_n of_o obscurity_n and_o that_o in_o these_o true_a believer_n and_o person_n who_o god_n have_v reserve_v he_o do_v fulfil_v the_o promise_n of_o perpetuity_n make_v to_o the_o church_n i_o close_o this_o letter_n with_o sincere_a protestation_n that_o it_o be_v much_o to_o my_o dissatisfaction_n that_o i_o find_v myself_o oblige_v to_o put_v pen_n to_o paper_n in_o a_o dispute_n against_o m._n de_fw-fr condom_n i_o have_v all_o along_o have_v and_o ever_o shall_v have_v not_o only_o all_o the_o respect_n for_o he_o which_o be_v due_a to_o his_o quality_n and_o station_n but_o more_o especial_o i_o esteem_v his_o virtue_n so_o universal_o acknowedge_v and_o admire_v his_o perfection_n and_o the_o excellent_a gift_n god_n have_v impart_v to_o he_o as_o they_o real_o deserve_v in_o our_o conference_n i_o observe_v in_o he_o a_o wit_n lively_a and_o pierce_a a_o clear_a apprehension_n a_o proper_a and_o easy_a way_n of_o expression_n and_o especial_o a_o extraordinary_a candour_n and_o civility_n of_o behaviour_n he_o maintain_v his_o principle_n with_o all_o the_o strength_n and_o advantage_n imaginable_a make_v they_o look_v as_o fair_a and_o specious_a as_o it_o be_v possible_a for_o any_o man_n and_o manage_v they_o with_o abundance_n of_o skill_n and_o address_n in_o a_o word_n i_o be_v strange_o take_v with_o the_o accomplishment_n of_o his_o person_n and_o do_v often_o feel_v such_o kind_a inclination_n and_o wish_n as_o man_n shall_v do_v upon_o such_o occasion_n my_o sentiment_n of_o honour_n and_o respect_n for_o he_o be_v sincere_a but_o the_o more_o they_o be_v so_o the_o more_o frequent_a i_o must_v complain_v of_o one_o thing_n insert_v by_o he_o in_o his_o discourse_n with_o mademoiselle_n de_fw-fr duras_n 15._o and_o that_o be_v that_o in_o our_o religion_n we_o believe_v there_o be_v a_o point_n of_o time_n when_o a_o christian_a be_v oblige_v to_o doubt_v whether_o the_o scripture_n be_v inspire_v by_o god_n whether_o the_o gospel_n be_v a_o truth_n or_o a_o fable_n whether_o jesus_n christ_n be_v a_o deceiver_n or_o a_o