may be knowne by some periphrasis D. Featly What say you then to the Hereticks called Acephali who are so called because their Head Author cannot be named nor particularly described yet the Author was a visible man Are all visible mens names vpon Record are al the Records that were in former times now to be produced Heere diuers of M. Fishers company called Names Names Names D. Featly What will nothing content you but a Buttery-book You shall haue a Buttery book of names if you will stay a while Master FISHER'S Answer To this obiection touching the Acephali M. Boulton answered that those Acephali held some particular Doctrine which did amount to the nature of a name sufficient to distinguish them from others insinuating heereby that these Acephali were not Anonymi Further it may be answered that it is not certaine whether they had any particular Author for some say that they were a company who in the controuersie betwixt Iohn the Bishop of Antioch Cyril of Alexandria behaued themselues like Neutrals submitting themselues to neither as to their Head Others think that they were certaine men who beeing the Fauourers of Petrus Mogus the Heretick did afterwards renounce him from beeing their Head because he would not accurse the Councell of Chalcedon Others say that one Seueius Bishop of Antioch was their Author But howsoeuer this particular were it doth not conclude that there could be in all Ages visible professors of the Protestants faith whereof no story nor other antient Monument maketh mention of names or opinions or places of aboad of any of them or of those who opposed them as Stories make mention of some of these circumstances both of the Acephali and whatsoeuer other eminent professors of euery true or false Religion Wee doe not require that all visible mens names should bee vpon Record nor all Records produced For although to prooue such a visible Church as that of our Sauiour Christ described in Scripture to bee spred ouer the world a small number of visible Professors bee not sufficient as Saint Austen prooueth against the Donatists yet to shew how confident wee are of our cause wee for the present onely require that Three eminent Protestants names in all Ages be produced out of good Authors But they are so farre from beeing able to produce three as they cannot name one in euery Age as is cleerely proued in the Protestants Apology neither indeed can they abide with any patience when they bee much pressed in this point as appeareth by diuers who haue beene vrged and in particular by D. Featly in this Conference who hauing beene called vpon seuerall times to produce Names as hee had vndertaken at one time he burst foorth into these words set down by the Protestant Relator What will nothing content you but a buttery-book you shall haue a buttery-book if you will stay a while Note Reader this Doctors want of grauity and patience and what a fit title he giues to a Catalogue of names of Protestants who indeed are more like to be◠found in a Buttery-book then in any good Record of antiquity as hauing had their beginning of late in one Martin Luther who after his Apostasie more respected the Buttery then any Ecclesiasticall Story Doctor FEATLY'S Reply In the Answer to this Paragraph first you shake hands with the Acephali afterwards you salute the Donatists in the end you take vp your lodging with the Spright of the buttery in whose company it seemes you take most delight To beginne with your Acephali These Acephali were a shole of Hereticks bred as it should seeme of the spawne of Eutyches Dioscorus for they held that there was but one nature in Christ viz. the diuine which they affirmed to haue beene crucified These differed from other Hereticks in this especially That whereas other Hereticks for the most part took their names from the Author and Head of their Sect as the Arians from Arius the Nestorians from Nestorius c these Hereticks because their first Author could not bee certainly knowne were termed Acephali from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 priuatiuo and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifying a Head as if you would say Head-lesse Hereticks So that as Pliny writes of the herb Anonymos nomen non inueniendo inuenit that it took it's name Anonymos from the want of a name so it may be truly said of these Hereticks that they took their name from the want or at least ignorance of the name of their parent and first Author Thus your Alfonso deduceth and expoundeth their name Haeretici Acephali dicti sic nominati sunt 〈◊〉 simul insurgentes nullus repertus est quiillarum esse◠princeps atque magister The Hereticks tearmed Acephali were so named because multitudes of them rising together there was found none who might be their Head and Master Neither doe you in your Answer contradict but rather confirme this Etymology by rehearsing diuers and sundry opinions touching their Head and Author Which variety of opinions and difference of Authors about him plainely argueth that no certainty was or can be had of him who he was and much lesse what was his proper name Wherefore distrusting your former Answer you adde a second saying Howsoeuer this particular were it doth not conclude that there could be in all Ages visible professors of the Protestant faith whereof no Story nor other antient Monument maketh 〈◊〉 of names or opinions or places of aboad of any of them 〈◊〉 of those who opposed them I grant it doth not conclude so much neither was it brought to conclude so much it prooueth sufficiently what intended viz. That your Question is grounded vpon a false Supposal it cutteth M. Sweet's reason in the hams If there were visible Protestants in 〈◊〉 Ages then certainly they may bee now named The Head and Author of the Heresie of the Acephali was I suppose a visible man yet can he not now nor for ought appeares could he then when hee broched his Heresie be named In like manner the 7000. that neuer bowed their knees to Baal and all your Ancestors descending from Noah were certainly visible men yet can they not now be all named and therefore M. Sweet's Argument ab authoritate negatiue and à negatione vocis ad negationem rei is a poore fallacie fit to bee ranked with that which they wrongfully fasten on my Argument à priori viz. petitio principij or the begging the Question I wil not say that in disputing about the Acephali you shew your selfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but certainly in that which followeth you shew your self 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 else you would not so ignorantly apply Saint Austens proofes in his Book against Donatists to disprooue our Church For it is well knowne that we teach with Saint Austen that Christs visible Catholique Church is dispersed farre and wide ouer the face of the whole earth But you are the Donatists of our Age for as the Donatists confined
I in my Argument nor you in your Answer vse those words 〈◊〉 aeterno Page 22. To that Syllogisme in the Conference viz. That Church whose faith is eternall and pâ—â—petuall and vnchanged is so visible as the Catholique Church ought to be and as the Popiâ—â— Church by M. Fisher is pretended to be But the faith of the Protestant Church is eternall perpetuall and vnchanged Ergo The Protestant Church is so visible as the Catholique Church ought to bee and the Popish Church is pretended by M. Fisher to bee You answer That the Maior is not vniuersally true for that there may be a Church or company who may haue inward faith eternall and vnchanged As for example A Church of Angels who for want of visible professors are not so visible as the Catholique Church ought to be Quid ad Rombum What is this instance to the purpose I dispute of the Church on earth you answer of the Church in heauen I dispute of faith you answer of vision I dispute of a Church succeeding in all Ages you answer of a Church in which there is no succeeding nor Ages I dispute of a Church visible in all Ages you answer of a Church visible in no Age. I dispute of noble Confessors Martyrs who haue sealed the profession of the Christian faith with their bloud you answer of immortall Spirits In a word I dispute of men named in good Authors and Histories you answer of Angels whose names are written in heauen and were neuer vpon visible Record except two or three named in the Scriptures Page 31. To those words of mine I neuer heard that the inference of the effect by the cause was transitio à genere in genus such was my Argument for faith in a beleeuer produceth profession and confession thereof You reply That M. Sweet 's Logick is not lesse to bee esteemed if hee had tearmed that 〈◊〉 to weet proouing the effect by the cause transitio à genere in genus for a cause as a cause an effect as an effect doe not onely differ specie but also genere and besides a proofe à priori and à posteriori are diuers kindes of proofes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I dispute of a transition à genere in genus in rebus you answer of a transition in notionibus I speake of a straying from the subject of the Question you answer of passing through diuers heads of Logick in proouing I speake of genus in Scientijs you answer of 〈◊〉 in the predicables or predicants so well in defence of M. Sweet you obserue M Sweets pretended Law of speaking nothing but to the purpose But certainely you saw not the But and somissed the mark reading M. Sweets Law without it thus Item 2. That nothing should be spoken to the purpose Euery Puney in Logick can tell you that the meaning of transitio à genere in genus is the proouing of a conclusion in one science by the principles of another distinct from it and no way subalternall to it As for example To demonstrate a conclusion in Physick by principles in Geometrie or to demonstrate a conclusion in naturall Philosophy out of a principle or principles in Morall Philosophy But if your interpretation of transitio à genere in genus should stand euery demonstration of the effect by the cause à priori or of the cause by the effect 〈◊〉 posteriori in the same Science should bee a transitio à genere in genus because as you say the cause as a cause and the effect as an effect differ genere for which ignorant Arguing as M. Sweet was prickt by D. Goad in the Conference so you M. Fisher for your more ignorant and grosse defence of it deserue to be sent to fustitudinas ferricrepinas Insulas vbi viuos homines mortui incursant boues Page 65. You alledge this for a reason why you refused to answer Christ his Apostles for that say you All disputation about particulars before the true Church were by her perpetuall Visibility or some such euident marke found out and knowne would haue beene fruitlesse and endlesse which was the reason why M. Fisher in another former conference had with a certaine Minister would not enter into any particulars vntill he had asked these generall Questions First what ground the Minister would stand vpon c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heer you bring-in by the head and eares a Conference of yours with a worthy Minister and an acute Disputant touching the merit of works What is this to the Visibility of the Protestant Church or a Catalogue of Names If this bee not transitio à genere in genus I am sure it is transitio à Quaestione in Quaestionem a vagring from one Question to another sufficiently distant neither was there any cause at all giuen you of this digression for I drew you not to dispute about any particulars but proceeded to prooue the generall Question proposed by your self to weet that The Protestant Church was so visible in the first Age that the Names of those that taught the Protestant faith might be produced viz. Christ his twelue Apostles Saint Paul and Ignatius to whom after you had giuen your Answer Whether they taught our faith or yours I would haue gone on in like manner in naming the Professors of the Protestant faith in all Ages Now then let the Reader iudge whether this your digression into a long tale of a conference of yours with a Minister touching merits were any way necessary or pertinent Page 68. 69 70. You alleage many Sayings out of Tertullian's golden Book of Prescriptions to prooue that Hereticks who reiected the authority of the Apostolicall and Mother Churches and refused also some Scriptures or peruerted the Text by additions and detractions should not be admitted to dispute with Orthodoxall Christians out of Scriptures 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The sentences indeed you cite are golden but you apply them most leadenly for what Protestant whom by a ridiculous 〈◊〉 principij or begging the Question you stile Hereticks what Protestant I say euer reiected the authority of the Apostolicall or Mother Churches as they were in the Primitiue Times much lesse either refused or peruerted any part of parcell of the Canonicall Scriptures by addition or detraction Wee attribute much more to the holy Scriptures and the ancient Mother-church of which Tertullian speaks who receiued the Originall of Scriptures from the Authors themselues then you do we willingly put our whole cause in their hands wee renounce any Article of faith which cannot be prooued to haue been held by the Apostles and their heires Tertullian speaks of Prooue that the Apostles or the Primitiue Churches immediatly founded by them held your Trent-faith or those twelue new Articles added by Pope Piuâ— in the end of that Councell and imposed vpon all Professors to sweare vnto and then I will acknowledge that the Romane Church hath a good title to the Scriptures And if we prooue not that we
points is eclipsed Aquinas sheweth that the vnderstanding of a Ploughman is not conuinced by this demonstration but onely the vnderstanding of him who is sufficiently fore-instructed in the tearms and suppositions heerunto belonging Therefore as this demonstration conuinceth not the vnderstanding by the bare proposall of the Syllogisme but the assent hauing been before wrought to the premises it enforceth and compelleth a rectified vnderstanding to assent to the conclusion In like manner I grant that the bare proposall of my former Syllogisme will not presently conuince a man either vtterly ignorant or in error as I feare you are to assent to the perpetuall Visibility of the Protestant Church But if as I enforced you to assent to the Maior so you would haue but staied and suffred mee to inforce the Minor will you nill you you should haue beene compelled to yeeld to the conclusion But say you in your worthy witty instance This Argument doth no more perswade a man that the Protestants are the true visible Church then a man in case of doubt can bee perswaded by the like Argument which a man may make to prooue himselfe and his brethren to bee as well spoken of as any in the parish thus Those who are in heart honest men are as well spoken of as any in all the parish c. Good Sir let mee aduise you to obtaine a writ of remoue for the Windmill for the whirling about of the sailes wrought very much vpon your braine as you were a-printing this Answer in the Cell Had not you had a whimpsy in your head you would neuer haue set this your Paralogisme as a Parallel to my demonstration In my demonstration the Maior rightly vnderstood is vndoubtedly true and de fide as your selfe confesse page 23. The Scripture doth shew the holy Catholique and Apostolique Church both to haue perpetuall vnchanged faith and also to bee perpeâ—tually visible But in your Syllogisme the Maior is apparantly false If honest men were alwaies wel spoken of how can the Apostles words stand Sine per famam siue per infamiam either by good report or by euill report c Nay how can the words of truth it selfe be verified Blessed are yee when men speake all manner of euill against you for my sake Againe perpetuity of faith is the adequate or selfe-sufficient cause of the perpetuall profession thereof but honesty in heart is not the cause of fame but honest and vertuous actions It is not the inward burning but the outward shining of our light before men which maketh men to see our good works and thereby glorifie God in vs for them Yet by this your very instance and Syllogisme wee haue the better and therfore this your Syllogisme may be fitly tearmed as you will haue it A demonstration but with this addition of Fishers folly To be an honest man in heart is both prius naturâ and morally eligibilius in nature before and more desireable then to be well spoken of Mallem de me dicas Vir bonus est ergo bonae famae quà mè contra By this very argument the Visibility of the Church is but secundarium quid and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a secundary proofe and a common accident to the truth of faith And as wee therefore enquire of fame that we may know a mans vertue so wee therefore enquire of the true Church as your selfe confesse Page 23. that by it wee may learne the true faith We seeke a guide that we may finde the way and not the way that wee may finde a guide If I can otherwise infallibly know a mans vertue without fame put case he liued in a Desart I will not then set it vpon the triall of fame but in case I should faile of other proofe for a probable Argument I would produce fame In like manner if wee had no other infallible proofe of the true faith then by the perpetuall Visibility of the professors thereof I would hold it as you doe a point of principall moment to enquire of the Visibility of professors but sith we haue another more easie direct and infallible meanes to prooue it viz. by comparing the doctrine with the Canonicall Scriptures you shall giue me leaue M. Fisher rather to follow this Method generally prescribed and vsed by the Antient Fathers as I haue shewed before Assertion 7. then the other Method prescribed by you Obiect 2. Secondly you charge my demonstration with falshood in both the premises The Maior you say is false for that there may bee a Church or company who may haue inward faith eternall and vnchanged as for example a Church of Angels c. An instance as wide from the mark as the heauen is distant from the earth Our question is of a visible Church of which all sorts of men may learne infallible faith necessary to saluation Are Angels visible Are all â—orts of men to learne infallible faith of a Church of Angels Doe you hold it for a good interpretation If thy brother offend thee tell the Church that is tell the Angels or a Church of Angels Although Christ bee the Head of Angels and they make a part of the triumphant Church in a large sense yet I neuer read of a Church of Angels Bellarmine saith in expresse tearmes Lib. 3. de Eccles. Milit. cap. 12. Ecclesia est Societas quaedaâ—m non Angelorum sed hominum The Church is a Society or company not of Angels but of men If I should haue brought such an Argument to proue the militant Church vpon earth of which we disputed to bee inuisible because the Angels are inuisible I should haue suspected my selfe to haue beene as wise as hee that adored for a Relique one of the feathers of the Angell Gabriels wings Erubuit salua res est you seeme your selfe to be ashamed of this Answer and therfore you insist not vpon it but passe to the Minor burdening it with falshood saying The Protestants faith is not vnchanged but so often changed and so much subiect to change as one may say as a great person in Germany once said of some Protestants What they hold this yeere I doe in some sort know but what they will hold next yeere I doe not know I can requite you with a like Apophthegme The Popish faith is so subiect to change that wee may say of it as a learned person in France once said That if a man would finde the Popish Tenets he must looke into an Almanack for them At one time the murther of Kings is Catholique doctrine viz. in the time of the League against the King of Nauarre At another time they pull in that horne and then for a season such murder is disauowed That the Councell is aboue a Pope was Catholique Doctrine with you in Martin the fifts time it was not Catholique doctrine in Leo the tenths About the breaking vp of the Councell of Trent the edition of the vulgar by Sixtus Quintus was authenticall and not
former acknowledge that the Hussites and Waldenses walked with a right foot in that way of Truth which since Luther blessed bee God hath beene much more cleerely discouered and trodden then in former times If Protestant Writers sway little with you who yet could better tell then you or M. Sweet and such other new vpstart Iesuites who were Luthers forerunners learne of your owne Rainerius and Claudius de Seissel and Cocleus and Lyndanus and Claudius Rubis and Aeneas Syluius and Iohn Dubranius and Alfonsus à Castro and the Author of the Fasciculus rerum exet and many other that the Waldenses bore a Torch before Luther and shewed him his way Yea but Schlusenburg saith It is impudencie to say that many learned men in Germany did hold the doctrine of the Lutheran Gospell Schlusenburgs words are Impudenter scribit Vtenboyus seex Conrado Pellicano audiuisse multos viros eruditos in Germaniâ priusquam prodiret Lutherus euangelij doctrinam tenüisse adeoque ipsum Pellicanum priusquam auditum esset nomen Lutheri Purgatorium Papisticum reiecisse Vtenboius writes impudently that he heard Conradus Pellicanus affirme that many learned men in Germany held the doctrine of the Gospell before Luther appeared and that Pellicanus himselfe impugned the Popish Purgatory before the name of Luther was heard For ought I know Vtenboius is as honest a man as Schlusenburgius and if Schlusenburgius deny it Vtenboius affirmeth it yea and for ought is prooued to the contrary Conradus Pellicanus also yet that which Schlusenburg maintaineth for the honor of his Master no way helpeth your cause for admit there were not in Germany yet there might bee elsewhere many thousands as in Bohemia France England c. who before Luther embraced the doctrine of the Gospell Secondly in Germany it selfe there were not multi eruditi viri many learned men yet there might be some for ought Schlusenburg saith to the contrary therefore Schlusenburges testimony falls very short neither doth George Myllius his come much neerer to the marke His words are Si antecessores Lutherus in officio habuisset Orthodoxos Si Apostasia commissa ab Episcopis Pontificijs non fuisset Lutherana reformatione opus non fuisset Non ergo possumus veros monstrare Episcopos qui ante Lutherum sub Papatu fuerint praedecessores Lutheri Si enim tales fuissent in Romana Ecclesia discedendi ab ista causa non fuisset If Luther had had orthodoxall Predecessors in his Office If the Popish Bishop had not made an Apostasie there should haue beene no need of a Lutheran Reformation Therefore we cannot shew true Bishops vnder the Papacie to whom Luther succeeded for if there had beene such in the Romane Church there had beene no cause to depart from it What makes this testimony for you Is it for the honor of your Church to bee truly branded with Apostasie to haue no orthodoxal Bishops bearing rule in it What though there were no right-beleeuing Bishops vnder or in the Papacy will it follow that there were no right-beleeuing Christians elsewhere It is true Reformation presupposeth a Deformation as a remedy presupposeth a disease a purgation precedent matter fit to bee purged Though the Romane Church or rather the predominant faction in the Romane Church was vnsound in the faith and very corrupt and rotten yet were there other sound members of Christs Church in whose steps it is well knowne that Luther trod What a paralyticall Paralogisme is this Myllius a Lutheran affirmeth that There were 〈◊〉 orthodoxall or right-beleeuing Bishops in the Romane Sea therfore there were no visible Protestants in all the world before Luther Now for Benedictus Morgenst Non est inuentus in Baliua nostra Hee who found him for you makes him runne the same way with Ioachimus Camerarius but not whither you would haue him They both stand for the honor of Luther and maintaine that he alone laid the first stone in the Fabrick of reformation that none ought to share with him in that dignity in beeing the first Apostle of the reformed Churches They will not endure that Luther should be thought to draw water out of any other Cisterne but out of the Fountaine of liuing water the Scriptures Wicklef indeed saith Ioachimus was instructed by the Waldenses and Hus by Wicklef but Luther receiued his doctrine neither from Hus nor Wicklef but was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 taught of himselfe out of Scriptures This preeminency all Protestants doe not willingly grant to Luther Zuinglius and Pellicanus and Vtenboius and your owne Alfonsus à Castro seeme to make others as ready forward at that time as Luther And indeed whether Luther set Zuinglius or Zuinglius Luther first a-work or whether the Spirit of God stird vp both their spirits at the same instant to set to that noble work of repairing and reforming Gods Temple I hold it needlesse to define Let Luther and Zuinglius and many other their contemporaries and fellow-workmen in that great work shine as so many precious stones in the foundation of the reformed Churches Ne sit primus nec vel imus quispiam Will it follow that because Luther was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and did not tind his candle at another mans light therefore there was no visible Protestant at that time but hee It will follow say you because Morgenst addeth that It is manifest to the whole world that before Luther's time all Churches were ouerwhelmed with more then Cymerian darknesse And you adde also to Morgenst fiue other corroboratory testimonies of Caluin Bucer Beza Iewell and Perkins whereunto after I haue giuen a direct and particular answer I will dismisse you Master FISHER And lest this may bee thought to haue beene onely the conceit of Luther and Lutherans who yet could better tell then D. Featly D. White and such other new Masters I will adde heereunto what is said first by Caluin who doth acknowledge that in this Lutheran reformation there was made a discession or departure from all the world Secondly by Bucer who calleth Luther the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine Thirdly by Beza a principall Caluinist who teacheth that at this time ordinary vocation of the Church-men was no where extant and consequently teacheth that there was at that time no visible Church and so if any Church at all it was onely inuisible as is affirmed euen by our owne English Protestant Diuines namely Master Iewel who saith The truth was vnknowne and vnheard of when Martin Luther and Viderick Zuinglius first came to the knowledge and preaching of the Gospell and M. Perkins who saith Wee say that before the daies of Luther for the space of many hundred yeeres an vniuersall Apostasie ouer-spred the whole face of the earth and that our Protestant Church was not visible to the world Doctor FEATLY When Caluin saith There was a departure made from all the world and Morgenst That
all Churches were ouerwhelmed with more then Cymerian darknes and Perkins that An vniuersall Apostasie ouerspred the whole face of the earth and Iewell that Luther Zuinglius were most excellent men sent from God to giue light to the whole world their meaning is not that there was no light in those times in Goshen or that there were no Abdiases with many other Prophets lying in secret or that there were not many thousands that neuer bowed the knee to the Romish Baal for they all affirme the contrary in sundry places of their writings But they take the word World as it is vsually taken both in sacred prophane Writers for the greater part of the world or at least that part that beareth the greatest sway and is in a manner onely in voage Their words sound according to the Tenor of those in S. Iohn The whole world is set on wickednesse and the like in S. Ierome Totus mundus ingemuit se factum Arrianum the whole world sighed that it became Arrian As Luther so Caluin also acknowledgeth that Christ hath alwaies had his floore on earth sometimes more sometimes lesse purged And further they deny not but that before the publick and generall purging of the floore of the visible Church from the chaffe of Romish superstitions in our daies there were many that in sundry corners of the earth seuered diuers heaps of wheat from the chaffe and clensed it from darnell tares Among whom were Fratres Pigardi a remainder of the Waldenses betweene whom and Caluin many kinde offices passed as their mutuall Letters testifie extant in Caluins works Thus one of the Preachers of the Waldenses writes to Caluin Reuerend in the Lord because aboue 30 yeeres agoe when you remained at Argentine there was an holy league of loue and entire friendship and familiarity betweene you and the brethren who are falsely termed Pigards or Waldenses our dearest Fathers in the Lord Wee who now hold the place of those our Fathers whom God hath called almost all of them out of this mortall life thought fit to renew that knowledge or rather band of Christian loue wherewith all the seruants of God especially the Ministers of the Gospell ought to be most strictly and firmely knit together To the former letter Caluin returnes this courteous answer Epist. 251. Wee render you more then ordinary thankes for sending the brethren vnto vs who may remaine as witnesses and pledges of your loue towards vs and brotherly coniunction which kind office of yours wee the more willingly embrace because it flowed from a sincere loue of true Religion Wee desire that you will be likewise perswaded of the like affection in vs towards you and the great desire we haue to cherish this holy vnity among vs. For being so farre remooued one from another and compassed round about with enemies who take vp the greater part of the world it is a great delight vnto vs to enioy yet this comfort of our dispersion c. Againe the same Caluin in his Epistles Epist. 179. to Stanist Carninsk thus writeth of the Waldenses I hope the best of your agreement with the Waldenses not onely because God alwaies vseth to blesse the holy vnity in which the members of Christ grow vp together but also because in these your rudiments and beginnings I conceiue that the skill and long experience of the Waldenses will bee an extraordinary help vnto you wherefore all of you must doe the vttermost of your endeuours that this holy agreement consent betweene you may more and more be established c. Martin Bucer whom you alleage in the next place held the like correspondence with the Waldenses as may be gathered from that Letter of his which hee wrote vnto them Blessed be the Lord God our louing Father who hath preserued you to this present time in so great knowledge of his truth and who hath now inspired you in the search thereof hauing made you capable and fit to doe it Behold now what the nature of true faith is which is that so soone as it knowes in part any spark of the diuine light it preserueth carefully the things that are giuen vnto it of God Saint Paul is an example to vs who in all his epistles shewes the great care that he hath had to procure the glory of God And doubtlesse if wee pray with a good heart that the name of God be sanctified and his Kingdome may come we shall prosecute nothing with such diligence as the establishment of the truth where it is not and the aduancement thereof where it is already planted One onely thing doth especially grieue mee that our imployments at this time are such about other affaires that wee haue no leasure to answer you at large as we desire c. By the contents of this Letter and many other passages in Bucers Works which for breuities sake I omit it appeares that Bucer in calling Luther the first Apostle of the reformed Doctrine did not thereby intend that Luther was the first that euer preached the Doctrine of the reformed Churches for hee could not bee ignorant that after Christ and his Apostles and the Fathers for 6 or 700 yeers Bertram Elfrick Berengarius and Petrus Brus and Henry of Tolous and Dulcinus and Arnoldus and Lollardus and Wicklef and Hus and Ierome of Prague and many other Starres fought in their courses against the Romish Sisera But Bucers meaning is that Luther was the first who in our Age and memory publikely and success-fully set on foot a generall Reformation of the Church in these Westerne parts when the corrupt matter of Popish errors and superstitions long in gathering grew now to a ripe coare Luther was the first who openly lanced it Luther formed no new Church but reformed the Church hee found and therefore cannot bee termed The first Apostle of Protestant Doctrine although in a tolerable sense hee may be stiled The first Apostle of the happie Reformation in our daies Luther burnisht and refined the gold of the Sanctuary obscured with rust he made not new gold In your allegation out of Beza by suppressing the Aduerb penè almost you shew your selfe non penè not almost sed penitùs altogether a falsificator Beza's words Epist. 5. are Huic tum demum locum esse dicimus cùm vel nulla vel penè nulla est ordinaria vocatio sicut nostris temporibus accidit in Papatu We say that then extraordinary calling takes place when there is either no or almost no ordinary vocation of Pastors as in our time fell out in the Papacie This almost you omit altogether For Beza's opinion touching extraordinary calling as I doe not heere oppugne so much lesse doe I vndertake to maintaine We can and haue prooued lawfull ordinary calling in our Church of England as you may see in M. Masons most accomplished Treatise of this Subject lately reuised by him before his death and translated into Latine at this instant
sweating vnder the Presse Admit there had beene no ordinary calling of right-beleeuing Church-men Bishops or Priests when Luther did first sound his siluer Trumpet what will you inferre thereupon that at that time there was no visible Church There Beza leaues you who professeth both a visible Church in generall consisting of members sound and vnsound and these more or lesse and in particular hee calleth the Waldenses The seed of the most pure antient Christian Church which was miraculously preserued in the midst of the darknes and errors which haue beene hatched by Satan in these latter times And as Beza leaues you in this your inference so also doth the Truth For although the Ship of Christ is in great danger when erronious Pastors like false lights are set vp in the Watch-Towers of Sion yet sith our chiefe Pilot hath forewarned vs heereof and bid vs take heede of false prophets and teachers and hath left vs a most certaine direction in his Word which is the true Light 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 conduct vs to those pulchri portus the faire Hauens in Heauen the people of God may keepe the right way and through Gods grace escape the quick-sands of heresie As God bestoweth diuers gifts of the Spirit ordinarily vpon the Clergie so he bestoweth also where he pleaseth Spiritum discretionis in the Laytie a Spirit whereby they may discerne spirits whether they are of God or no a Spirit by which trying all things they may hold fast that is good And if their ghostly Fathers offer them a stone for bread or a Serpent for fish they will cast it away Or if more cunningly they shall mingle error and heresie with truth and offer them as your Teachers did and doe an apple with a worme in it or a cup of wine with a dead Fly they will take out the worm and Fly and then eat of the one and drink of the other This is that which Lydius truly obserueth Oft-times the eares of the Auditors are purer then the tongue of the Preacher Hee deliuers vngarbled spices they garble it vnsifted meale they sift and boult it impure milke they straine it In the daies of Ieremy and much more after the death of the Prophet Malachy vntill the birth of Christ there were few Doctors in Israel that rightly expounded the Law and taught Gods people as they ought yet no man doubts that God had then a visible Church as also afterwards in the time of the Arrian Eutychian persecution in which there were very few Bishops or Pastors vntainted with those heresies Therefore although we should grant you your antecedent out of Beza that there was no ordinary vocation at that time of pure and sincere Teachers yet wee will barre you of your conclusion that at that time there was no visible Church Our English Diuines alledged by you affirme no such thing Perkins saith not that our Church was simply inuisible but that it was not visible to the world adding in the same place that it lay hid vnder the chaffe of Popery And the truth of this saith hee the Records of all Ages manifest The same Perkins in his Reformed Catholick more fully explaineth his meaning thus Though Popery raigned and ouerspred the face of the earth for many hundred yeeres yet in the middest thereof God reserued a people to himselfe that truly worshipped him The woman fled into the wildernesse c. And she still retaines a remnant of her seed which keepe the commandement of God and haue the testimony of Iesus Christ. See here how farre hee is from denying a Protestant Church extantâ— that he affirmeth it to haue growne vp and thriued euen in the Thicket of Popery though much ouer-shadowed and ouer-topped Neither can you finde any flaw or cloud in that orient Geâ—â—â—â— of our Church Bishop Iewell whose words are these When in the middest of the darknesse of that Age first beganne to spring and shine some glimmering beame of truth vnknowne at that time and 〈◊〉 of When also Martin Luther and Hâ—lderick Zuinglius beeing most excellent men euen seek from God to giue light to the whole world first came to the knowledge and preaching of the Gospell c. A Diamond cannot bee cut or polished but by a Diamond Let therefore this Iewell brighten and cleere himselfe In the same part of the Apologie Chap. 5. Diuis 1. hee calleth Martin Luther the publisher and setter forward of this doctrine not the Author And Chap. 14. Diuis 1. he fully cleeres the point in difference betweene vs touching visible Protestants before Luther Many 〈◊〉 many learned and godly men haue often and carefully complained how all these things haue cleered 〈◊〉 time For euen in the middest of that 〈◊〉 darknesse God would yet there should bee some who though they gaue not a cleere bright light yet should kindle were it but some sparks which men being in darknesse might espie And hee particularly 〈…〉 Hillary Gregory Bernard Pauperes de Lugdâ—â—◠〈◊〉 Bishops of Greece and Asia as also 〈…〉 Petrach Sauanarolla and others And Chapter 15. he preuenteth a câ—uill that might haue bin made against these witnesses of the truth by some ignorant persons Neither saith hee can any man alleage that these Authors were Luthers or Zuinglius Schollers for they liued not only certaine yeeres but also certaine Ages â—re euer Luther or Zuinglius names were heard of Now I pray see M. Fisher what a goodly dish of fish you haue serued in to furnish your Table and let the indifferent Reader iudge whether you may safely trust M. Brerâ—ly or wee you in allegations especially out of Protestant Writers whose words either you corrupt or adulterate their meaning or both as euidently appeares in all the places aboue-cited And thus haue I now at length spung'd out all the spots which your pen hath cast on the Conference As for personall aspersions vpon mee especialy of want of grauity and patience I hold it fittest to refell these and the like slanders by silent and patient enduring them As you heerein take Petilian the Donatist for your precedent of impudent railing so I will take Saint Austen for my patterne of silent patience and cloze vp all further Answer in his words Quid mirum si cùm grana de areâ Domini excussa simul paleam intror sum trabo iniuriam resilientis pulueris suffero What maruell if in sweeping the Lords floore and seeking to gather-in graines that are flowne out I endure a little dust Homo sum enim de areâ Christi palea si malus granum si bonus non est hâ—ius area vâ—niâ—labrum lingus Petiliani I am a man and I know I am of Christs floore that is in his true visible Church all the Papists in the world shall neuer disprooue it If I am euill I am chaffe if good I am wheat and whether I bee the one or the other this is my comfort I am sure the
renounce all the particular errors of the present Romish church at this day for such Protestants could not bee much before Luther The particular diseases must in nature bee presupposed before a particular remedy can bee applyed vnto them Reformation necessarily presupposeth a disorder and deformation Neither doe wee restraine the name Protestants to such only as in particular set themselues directly and professedly against some speciall error of Popery as of Transubstantiation Purgatory Indulgences c. for such professed opposing could not bee imagined before such errors were in beeing But as the Fathers before the Councell of Nice did not in words define 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or that the Son was of the same substance with the Father and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 onely that is of a like substance nor professedly wrote against the Heresie of Arius by name yet are they rightly esteemed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 indeed or maintainers of the right beliefe touching the consubstantiality of the Sonne to the Father because out of their Sentences and Writings this truth may be deduced howsoeuer it be not formally expressed in the tearme of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So all those are to bee esteemed Protestants who holding nothing against the protestant faith deliuer some doctrines and positions from which some error of Popery or other may bee cleerly refuted whether such error were then maintained by any in the Church of God or no. Of the tearme Visible A Church may be said to be visible two manner of waies either Visible to the whole world and that eminently and in some sort pompously as the Roman Empire kingdom of Naples or respublica Venetorum in which sense the Papists affirm that the true Church ought alwaies to bee visible but wee denie it Or visible to all the members of that Church either such as God hath already called or such as he will call in time who by searching and due inquirie may and shall finde out the true Church their mother In this question we vndertake not to prooue a Protestant Church visible in all Ages in the first acception but in the later onely wee maintaine a visible but not a conspicuous eminent and glorious face of a Church in all Ages consisting of an apparant Hierarchy as the Papists teach I shall not need to adde more distinctions for the explication of this first question I come therefore briefly to the particular assertions seruing for the confirmation and illustration of the generall and mayne conclusion touching the Visibility of the Protestant Church The first assertion The Church in the most strict and proper acception thereof is the whole company of Gods elect Thus S. Paul in the Epistle to the Hebrewes describeth her The generall assembly and Church of the first borne which are written in heauen And Saint Gregory vpon Ezechiel There is one Church of the elect both going before and following after And againe vpon the Canticles Christ according to the grace of his foreknowledge hath built a holy Church of Saints which shall eternally perseuer in grace And Saint Bernard This is the Church of the Elect. Of this Church Saint Austen speaketh most expresly He shall neuer be withdrawne from that Church which is predestinated and chosen before the foundations of the world yet poore Iohn Hus as H. C. a zealous Papist rightly obserueth was burnt by the decree of the Councell of Constance for saying no more in this point then Saint Paul and Saint Gregory said before him viz. Catholica Ecclesia est omnium praedestinatorum duntaxat The Catholique Church consists of all those that are predestinate and of them onely But the best is as our Humfrey speaketh pertinently Combustus est non confutatus Hussius Iohn Hus was indeed burned but hee was neuer confuted His doctrine is written with a poynt of a Diamond neuer to bee razed out for it is Gods truth The foundation of God standeth sure hauing this seale The Lord knoweth them that are his And so I fall into my second assertion The second assertion The Church in this acception as it consisteth of the elect onely is knowne to God onely and consequently is inuisible This the Apostle teacheth The Lord knoweth them that are his And the Spirit intimateth as much in these words I will giue him a white stone and in it a new name written which no man knoweth sauing hee that receiueth it For what man knoweth the things of a man saue the spirit of man which is in him The heart of man is deceitfull aboue all things who can knowe it I the Lord search the heart I try the reines This soueraigne priuiledge of Almighty God to sound the bottome of mans heart the faithfull acknowledge in their deuâ—utest prayers as Salomon Thou euen thou onely knowest the hearts of all the children of men And Ieremie Thou that triest the Righteous and seest the reines and the heart And the eleuen Apostles Thou Lord which knowest the harts of all men Now if God onely knowe the heart he onely knowes who beleeue in him and loue him in sincerity of heart Therefore let none saith Saint Cyprian arrogate that which the Father hath giuen to the Sonne onely to weet in the floore of the Church to take the fanne and seuer the chaffe from the wheat The elect are the first borne whose names are written in heauen Heb. 12. 23. Now what earthly man will take vpon him to reade that which is written in heauen Saint Prosper forbeares it defining that God is hee who defineth the certaine number of those who are predestinated to eternall life Whence we may rightly conclude that the Pope in canonizing Saints and entering them into the heauenly Hierusalem incurres into a praâ—unire by encroching on the prerogatiue of Almighty God who reserueth to himselfe alone the discerning of vessels of honour from vessels of dishonour that is the elect from the reprobate But our aduersaries obiect If wee restraine the Church to the elect and pronounce them inuisible we make a Platonicall Idea or an aerâ—all body or mathematicall abstract of the Church Heereunto we answer first out of Saint Prosper Certum apud Deum esse numerum electorum tam impium est negare quà am ipsi gratiae contraire It is as impious to deny that the number of the elect is certaine with God as to deny grace it selfe And will any dare to call that a fansie or an imaginary Idea which is most certaine in the knowledge of God Secondly we teach not that the Church in this notion is an Idea extra rem or singularia or a body houering in the aire or floting in the fansie we teach that it truly subsisteth partly in heauen in the triumphant and partly on earth in the militant part therof This militant part though in respect of the whol number inward
calling it bee inuisible yet in respect of the outward calling to and profession of sauing faith it is alwaies more or lesse visible The elect are visible men and exist in the visible congregations of Christians as the apple in the ey or a Diamond in a Ring or the soule in the body As Athens is called the Greece of Greece so may wee tearme them the Church of the Church for in respect of them principally are those glorious titles giuen and gracious promises made to the Church which are registred in holy Scripture The third assertion which trencheth neer vpon our question The Church in a larger notion comprehendeth all those who eternally professe the true worship of God in Christ. Thus Lactantius defineth the Church Catholica Ecclesia est quae verum Dei cultum retinet hic est fons veritatis hoc est domicilium fidei hoc Templum Dei quo si quis non intrarit vel a quo si quit exiuerit à spe vitae ac salutis aeternae alienus est c. That is the Catholique Church which retaines the true worship of God This is the Fountaine of truth this the House of faith this is the Temple of God he that shall not enter heerein or shall depart hence is farre from the hope of life and eternall saluation Of the Church in this acception our Sauiours words are to bee vnderstood If hee refuse to heare the Church let him be to thee as an Heathen or Publican And Saint Lukes Then pleased it the Apostles and Elders with the whole Church c. And Saint Paul 's Despiseyee the Church of God c And in his Epistle to the Ephesians Vnto him bee glory in the Church c. And to Timothy How shall hee take care of the Church of God The Church in this notion is in Scripture compared to a field wherein are tares with the wheat a floore wherein is chaffe with graine a net wherein are sweet fish and rotten an house in which are precious vessels and vile to the Ark in which were cleane and vncleane beasts To the Church taken in this sense Christ directeth vs Tell the Church And Saint Paul That thou maist knowe how thou oughtest to behaue thy self in the House of God which is the Church of the liuing God And Saint Cyprian Hee hath no right to the rewards of Christ who leaueth the Church of Christ hee is a stranger hee is a profane person for hee cannot haue God to his Father who hath not the Church for his Mother And Saint Augustine I will not account thee a Christian vnlesse I see thee in the Church The fourth assertion The Church in this notion as it extends to all that professe the true Religion and participate in the pledges of saluation was euer is and shall be in some degree visible to the end of the world That it hath euer beene hitherto visible all Histories accord and that it shall so continue to the worlds end our Sauiours words are our warrant Goe yee and teach all nations c. andle I am with you alwaies euen vnto the end of the world For the continuance of Gods Word the Prophet Esay is most peremptory This is my couenant with thee saith the Lord c. My words which I haue put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed from hence-foorth for euer And Christs words are as direct for the Sacraments that they shall bee administred till his second comming As oft as yee eat of this Bread and drink of this Cup yee shew foorth the Lords death till hee come And lastly S. Paul 's words are as expresse for the Ministery He gaue some Apostles some Prophets c. till wee all come in the vnity of the faith c. It is true Antichrist shall make great hauocke of the Church and there shall be such a falling away that Christ at his second comming shall scarce finde faith on the earth false prophets and false Christs shall arise and seduce if it were possible the elect but that is not possible hell-gates shall neuer so farre preuaile against the Church Whatsoeuer becommeth of hypocrites and temporizers it is certaine that the elect shall remaine in it and retaine the 〈◊〉 faith and if they retaine it they will also pâ—ofessed it 〈◊〉 for with the heart man beleeueth vnto righteousnesse 〈◊〉 with the tongue confession is made vnto saluation Sainâ— Austen thus stoppeth the mouthes of the â—onatists What is that that thou sayest The Church 〈◊〉 already perished and gone out of all Nations 〈◊〉 therefore the Gospell is preached that it may bee in all Nations therefore euen vnto the end of the world 〈◊〉 Church shall bee in all Nations I may saue the labour of heaping more testimonies to confirme this point because M. Fisher in his reflection on the Conference spendeth many lines and much labour in fortifying it as a strong bulwark as hee imagineth against vs. I conclude therefore with Saint Ambrose Ecclesia 〈◊〉 potest effluere non potest The Church may bee euershadowed it cannot quite faile or bee 〈◊〉 The fift assertion The militant visible Church is not alwaies equally visible but sometimes it is more visible sometimes it is lesse It was more visible in the Prophet Dauid 's dayes when he sung In Iurie is God knowne his name is great in Israel then it was in the time that Hosea prophecies of Israel shall remain many daies without a King and without a sacrifice It was more visible in the daies Malachie foreshews of From the rising of the Sunne euen to the going downe there of my name shall be great among the Gentiles then in the daies Eliah complaineth of I euen I am left alone The Church was more visible in the daies of Salomon when she is compared to a Queene honourably attended then in the daies Saint Iohn foretelleth of when shee is compared to a Woman flying into the wildernesse Shee was more visible in the daies Esay fortelleth of Kings shall bee thy nursing Fathers and Queenes thy nursing mothers then in the daies of Antichrists tyrannie when Kings shall giue their Kingdome to the beast In regard of this mutable estate of the militant Church Micah giueth her this Motto Reioyce not ouer mee O my enemy though I fall I shall rise againe And Salomon likeneth her to the Moone My Loue is faire as the Moone To which ground Saint Austen alluding interpreteth Obscuram Lunam Ecclesiam the Moone in the Eclipse or darkned the Church in trouble and persecution And Saint Ambrose Ecclesia vt Luna defectus habet et orâ—us frequentes The Church as the Moone hath her often waxings and wainings And in his Epistle The Moone it selfe whereby in the
the Catholique Church of Christ to Africa and therein to the Sect of Donatus so you also restraine the Church of Christ to Rome and the Popes adherents We teach with Saint Austen Non Romanos sed omnes gentes Dominus semini Abrahae media quoque iuratione promisit That God promised with an oath to Abraham not the Romans but all Nations for his seed We beleeue that wheresoeuer the Scriptures are receiued and Christs Sacraments administred God calles some by ordinary meanes and consequently there is a Christian Church though neuer hearing of Rome or Papall Iurisdiction who are ordained to saluation Wee account all that professe the name of Christ Doctrine of the Gospell to be members of the visible Catholick Church yet with this difference some are sound members and parts others vnsound and these more or lesse Wee doubt not but Christ hath his flock vnder the Turk and Tartarian and Mogol in Asia Africa Europe yea Italy and Rome it selfe euen in the denne of Antichrist And therefore we are the true Catholicks who maintaine verè Catholicam Ecclesiam a Church truly Catholicke and you are the Donatists and Masters of the separation of these times who damne all sorts of Christians saue those who are content to receiue the mark of the Romish Beast in their fore-heads What then speake you of three Protestants to be named in euery Age Although our Sauiours words are most true Where there are two or three gathered in my name there am I. And although Tertullians inferences from those words are most true Vbi tres sunt Ecclesia est licèt Laici sint Where there are three there is the Church yea though those three bee Lay-men and In 〈…〉 Ecclesia est the Church is in one or two men yea Alensis and diuers among you remembred by Tostatus affirme that from the time of Christs suffering vntil his resurrection sides in sol◠remansit beata Virgine that onely the blessed Virgin perseuered in the faith and consequently that the Church subsisted for that time onely in her Yet God be blessed for it wee need not to fly to any such defence We shall bring into the field pares aquilas nay plures aquilas more ensignes and banners then you yea incomparably more for the first and best Ages and if you exceed vs in the latter I wish you to remember that in time in liquors the lees and mother gathers towards the bottome and a spoonefull of pure wine is better then a Hogs-head of dregs Yea but we are so farre from beeing able to produce three Protestants in all Ages as we cannot name one in euery age How proue you this Forsooth M. Brierly hath prooued it to your hand A beggerly Rapsodist whose patched cloak is already all to-be-tome by one of our noble Mastiues and the ragges that remaine as I am informed will be shortly by another puld away Were M. Brierly a man of better iudgement and more integrity then our worthy Morton now Lord Bishop of Couentry and Litchfield hath prooued him to be yet beeing a knowne Papist to alleage meerely his work and words to mee is but a dry kinde of proofe and therefore you did well in this place to knock at the Buttery-dore And heere I intreat the Reader to note how the very name of the Buttery reuiues the Iesuite In all the other passages of his Book there is nothing that pretends to wit or mirth but heer he is very pleasant now his dull wit is whetted he was not able in all the Conference nor since in his Answer to send out such a flash Will you know the reason The Spright of the Butterie possesseth him and thus he diuines The Protestants cannot abide with any patience when they bee much pressed in this poynt as appeareth by diuers that haue been vrged and in particular by Doctor Featly in this Conference who hauing been called vpon to produce Names burst forth c. It is true I burst forth not into a passion as you would make the Reader beleeue but into a laughter as did the rest of the company neither did I by any gesture or speech discouer my impatience but your folly who when I alledged you reasons and testimonies were not content with them but called for emptie names c. And what was this but to call for a Colledge Buttery-book which is nothing but a Register of the names of such as are in that societie If the sprite of the Butterie had not obfuscated your braine surprized your iudgement you might haue vnderstood plainly perceiued that I cōpared not a Catalogue of noble Confessors and Martyrs of the Catholique Protestant faith to a Buttery-book but such a Catalogue as you then required and you vsually bring to proue the visiblity of your church viz. a companie of names and nothing else testes sine testimonijs witnesses deposing nothing for you And may not such emptie Catalogues be fitly compared to Butterie-books Note Reader say you what a fit Title hee giueth to a Catalogue of Names of Protestants who indeed are more like to bee found in a Butterie-booke then any good Record of Antiquitie as hauing had their beginning of late in one Martin Luther who after his apostasie more respected the Butterie then any ecclesiasticall storie I maruell not that you Yeomen of the Popes Butterie and Pantry and the Blacke-gard of Rome haue a sharpe tooth against Luther who by burning the Popes haruest of Indulgences hath made the Catalogue farre lesse of those that brued for the Friers Buttery and baked for the Popes Kitchin Certainly if Martin Luther had so fat a belly as you paint him with hee did but hold that which hee got among you for after hee for sooke Sodom which you Apostataes call apostasie hee so hated and detested the gluttony and drunkennesse of Monks and Friers and so sharpely inueighed against them that Erasmus sometimes spake as truly as wittily of him That though hee otherwise highly esteemed of him yet hee could not but confesse that hee was much too blame in two things that hee presumed to touch the Popes Crowne and the Monkes bellie Wherefore seeing Luther deserueth no better of your fraternities strike him out of your Butterie-booke and put Father Parsons in his place the grand Master of your new equiuocating Religion or religious equiuocation because good man his name was strucke out of the Buttery-booke of Bailliol-Colledge in Oxford and hee expeld for falsifying the Butterie-booke and thereby cozening and purloining the Students of that Colledge The Protestant Relation Paragraph the seauenth touching the comparison betweene a proofe à priori and à posteriori Doctor Featly That Church whose faith is eternall is so visible that the Names of some professors thereof may bee shewed in all Ages But the faith of the Protestant Church is eternall and perpetuall Ergo. Master Fisher. Faith eternall Who euer heard of faith eternall Saint Paul saith that faith