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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A69095	The third part of the Defence of the Reformed Catholike against Doct. Bishops Second part of the Reformation of a Catholike, as the same was first guilefully published vnder that name, conteining only a large and most malicious preface to the reader, and an answer to M. Perkins his aduertisement to Romane Catholicks, &c. Whereunto is added an aduertisement for the time concerning the said Doct. Bishops reproofe, lately published against a little piece of the answer to his epistle to the King, with an answer to some few exceptions taken against the same, by M. T. Higgons latley become a proselyte of the Church of Rome. By R. Abbot Doctor of Diuinitie.; Defence of the Reformed Catholicke of M. W. Perkins. Part 3	Abbot, Robert, 1560-1618.	1609 (1609)	STC 50.5; ESTC S100538	452,861	494

infallibly what is the certaine meaning of euery place Are those holy fathers loth of their labour or are they so busied in other or greater affaires as that they haue no leasure to attend to such trifles Satisfie vs M. Bishop as touching these matters otherwise we must take this deuise to be as indeed it is the couer of your shame the cloake of your apostasie which can no otherwise be shadowed but by this pretense That the Popes sense is the very trueth of Scripture being notwithstanding wholly repugnant contrary to the words In a word the Pope thrusteth out the lawes of Christ which are expressed in the words of Christ and by his sense setteth vp his owne lawes vnder the name of Christ To giue power to the Pope properly to forgiue sinnes as M. Bishop doth is a wicked blasphemie and an Antichristian exalting of him into the place of Christ When the Scribes said within themselues f Mar. 2.7 Who can forgiue sinnes but God only our Sauiour Christ did not contrary them therein but partly by discouering the thoughts of their hearts and partly by the miracle that he wrought taught them to vnderstand him to be God the Sonne of God and therefore that he had power to forgiue sinnes He hath left it therefore so to be conceiued of vs that power to for giue sinnes belongeth to God only g Cyprian de Lapsis Nec remittere aut donare indulgentia sua seruus potest quod in dominum delicto grauiore commissum est The seruant sai he Cyprian cannot for giue that which by hainous traspasse is committed against the Lord. h Cyril in Ioan. lib. 2. cap. 56. Certè solius reri dei est vt possit à ptceatis homines soluere cui enim alij praeuaricatores legis liberare â peccato licet nisi legis ipsius authori Surely it belongeth only to the true God saith Cyrill to be able to release men from their sinnes for who but the maker of the law can free them from offense that are trespassers of the law As for that which M. Bishop obiecteth that Christ said to his Apostles i Iohn 20.23 Whose sinnes ye remitte they are remitted vnto them and whose sinnes ye retaine they are retained it no more importeth a power of forgiuing sinnes then the ministers k 1. Tim. 4.16 Sauing them that heare him importeth a power of sauing For as the minister saueth not properly by any power of sauing but only by teaching the way of saluation so he also forgiueth sinnes not properly by any power thereof but by preaching the Gospell of remission of sinnes and designing them to whom belongeth this remission God hath made vs not Lords but l 2. Cor. 3.9 Ministers of the new Testament and of the spirit neither hath he giuen vs the power but m cap. 5.18 The ministry of reconciliation for God was in Christ reconciling the world vnto himselfe not imputing vnto them their sinnes to vs he hath committed only the word of this reconciliation namely whereby we preach and testifie in the name of Iesus Christ remission of sinnes and reconciliation to God to all that repent and beleeue the Gospell But this whole cōmission of forgiuing sins shall be the better vnderstood by those instances by which Cyrill exemplifieth the same n Cyril vt supra Erit autem id duobus vt arbitror modis primò baptismo acinde penitentia Nam aut credentes vitae sanctimonia probates homines ad baptismum inducunt indignos diligenter expellunt c. First in baptisme and afterward in repentance Them that beleeue and approoue themselues by holinesse of life the minister addmitteth to baptisme this is to forgiue their sinnes but carefully he repelleth and putteth backe them that are vnworthy this is to retaine them But of this forgiuenesse of sinnes in baptisme we must remember that which S. Austine saith if at least that booke be his o August scal Paradis cap. 3. Officium baptizandi dominus concessit multis potestatem verò authoritatem in baptismo remittendi peccata sibi soli retinuit The Lord Iesus gaue the office of baptizing to many but the power and authority to forgiue sinnes in baptisme he reserued to himselfe only For the noting of which difference he rightly alleageth the words of Iohn Baptist p Ioh. 1.26.33 I baptize with water but he it is which baptizeth with the holy Ghost Now if to baptize with water to the remission of sinnes be to remitte sinnes in that sense which our Sauiour intendeth in that speech and to baptize with water to remission of sinnes importeth no power for forgiuing sinnes but only a ministery for publication and for the applying of Gods seale for exhibiting and confirming thereof it followeth so far foorth that those words of Christ doe not giue to the minister any power properly to forgiue sinnes Therefore Chrysostome though he terme this ministery in some sort a power yet to shew in what sort it is to be conceiued most notably saith q Chrysost in Ioan. hom 85. Quid sacerdotes dico Neque Angelus neque Archangelus quicquam in his quae a deo data sunt efficere potest sed pater filius sp sanctus omma facit sacerdos linguam manus praebet Not the Priest only but neither Angell nor Archangell worketh any thing in those things that are giuen of God but the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost doth all the Priest putteth too but his tongue and his hand The other instance which Cyrill giueth is r Cyril vt suprà Aut ecclesia filijs peccantibus quidem increpant paenitentibus autem indulgent 1. Cor. 5.5 When the minister giueth checke to offendours and to the penitent release Whereof he giueth example in the incestuous Corinthian whom for fornication the Apostle deliuered to Satan for destroying the flesh that the spirit might be saued and afterwards receiued againe that he might not be ouerwhelmed with ouermuch sorow here the Corinthians did forgiue and the Apostle himselfe did ſ 2. Cor. 2.7.10 forgiue and thus the terme of forgiuing hath alwaies his place and vse but this forgiuenesse is disciplinary for reconcilement to the Church it is not forgiuenesse of sinnes spiritually and properly so called though by the ordinance of Christ it must be to the peritent a necessary introduction to the assurance and comfort thereof as t See the Answer to the epistle dedicatory sect 28 before hath beene declared I conclude this point with that which Hierome writeth vpon the words of Christ to Peter u Matt. 16.19 whatsoeuer thou bindest in earth shall be bound in heauen and whatsoeuer thou loosest on earth shall be loosed in heauen for declaration whereof he saith that z Hieron in Matt. 16. Quemodo ibs sacerdos leprosum facit mundum velimmundum non quò sacerdotes leprosos faciant immundos sed quò

Sunne and in the Moone and vpon the crosse that is in many places and that c Idem in Ioan. er 31. Cùm ad alium locum venerit in eo loco vnde venit non est When he is come to another place he is not in the place from whence he came and therefore that d Vigil cont Eutich lib. 4. Quando in terra fuit caro Christi non erat vti● in coelo nunc quia in coelo est non est vtique in terra The body of Christ when it was vpon earth was not in heauen and now because it is in heauen it is not vpon the earth that e Ambr. in Luc. l. 1. c. 24. Ergo non supra terram nec interra nec secundum carnem ti quaerere debemus si volumus inuenire c. Stephanus tetigit quia quaesiuit in coele If we will find Christ we must not seeke him in the earth nor vpon the earth nor according to the flesh but in heauen They would neuer haue spoken thus without any limitation or exception if they had beleeued that which M. Bishop heere would make vs beleeue out of the doctrine of the church of Rome that the body of Christ may be in infinite places at once that it may be together both in heauen and earth with forme and without forme both visible and inuisible both circumscribed and vncircumscribed that is to say by a plaine contradiction both that that it is and that that it is not Surely they would haue saied as we doe If it be visible it cannot be inuisible or if it be inuisible it cannot be visible if it haue forme then it is not without forme or if it be without forme how should it be said to haue any forme both these cannot stand together True saith M. Bishop in one and the same maner of existence and being And say I if it be but one and the same body it can at once haue but one maner of existing and being for according to the same or totally to be thus not thus cannot agree to one and the same thing As for his instances whereby hee would take away the improbabilitie of this fancie they are altogether ridiculous Christ saith hee when hee was transfigured had another maner of outward forme and appearance then he had before and after his resurrection when it pleased him hee was visible to his Apostles and at other times inuisible And what then Ergo Christs body may be in many places at once it may together be both visible and inuisible and whatsoeuer pleaseth them But a man may euen as well say M. Bishop is sometimes hot and sometimes cold somtimes asleepe sometimes awake sometimes sober sometimes merrie sometimes like a schollar sometimes like a swaggerer sometimes at Rome sometimes in England ergò hee may at one time be together both asleepe and awake both visible and inuisible both at Rome and in England and in many places at once so that though by Parsons procurement he were fast laied vp in prison yet he might at the same time be personally before the Pope to acquaint him with the appeale of the secular Priests and the exorbitant dealing of the Iesuites against them What will he not call him a dreaming Sophister that should conclude thus Well then let him for his paines take his fellow to him and learne to argue more wisely another time But marke heere gentle Reader that M. Bishop maketh Philosophie a witnesse of this matter We haue thought heeretofore that they rested the same wholly and meerely vpon the omnipotent power of God and haue obserued how their schoole-philosophers when they speake of relation of bodies to their places do except this matter of the reall presence as a matter of irregularity not comming within compasse of the rules of Philosophy but farre transcendent aboue all their learning Now M. Bishop will make vs beleeue that it standeth with good Philosophy and that all their Philosophers haue all this while beene deceiued marrie it is woorth the while to note in what termes and how warily he hath set it downe The externall relations of bodies vnto their places do no whit at all destroy their inward and naturall substances as all Philosophy testifieth You say well M. Bishop and very wisely Indeed it is not relation to a place but the want of relation to a place that taketh away the nature of a body For f Aug. epist 50. spatia locorum tolle corporibus nusquam erunt quia nusquam erunt nec erunt take from bodies space of place saieth Austin and they shall be no where and because they shall be no where they shall not be at all g Cyril de Trinit lib. 2. si corpus in loco omninò in magnitudine in quantitaete si quanta facta esset non effugeret cireumscriptionem If it be a body saith Cyrill then verily it is in a place and hath greatnesse and quantitie and if it haue quantitie it cannot be but that it must be circumscribed h Didym de sp●sancto l. 2. si spiritus veritatis iuxta naturas corporum circumscriptus est certo spacio alium deserens locum ad alium commigrauit It is the nature of a body saieth Didymus to be circumscribed in a certaine space and therefore by comming into one place it must forsake another You therefore affirming the body of Christ vncircumscribed and hauing no commensuration or space of place and comming into one place without the leauing of another doe thereby vtterly destroy the nature of a body i Ibid. Impossibile est impium ista quae diximus in corporalibus credere It is impossible and a thing impious saith Didymus to beleeue these things concerning bodily substances This was the Philosophy that these Fathers had learned They knew by Philosophy and by trueth that a body must haue extension of parts and one part different and distant from another and place correspondent to euerie part so that where one part is there another cannot be and the whole so limited to one place as that without leauing that place it cannot be in another but neither did Philosophy nor Diuinitie teach them that vncircumscribed body which M. Bishop speaketh of 3. W. BISHOP Secondly Master PERKINS chargeth vs with disgrading Christ of his offices saying that for one Iesus Christ the only King law-giuer and head of the Church they ioine vnto him the Pope not only as a Vicar but as a fellow in that they giue vnto him power to make lawes binding in conscience to resolue and determine infallibly the sense of holy Scripture properly to pardon sinne to haue authority ouer the whole earth and a part of hell to depose Kings to whom vnder Christ euery soule is subject to absolue subjects from the oath of allegeance c. Answer Here is a bed-role of many superfluous speeches for not one of all these things if

dormiunt mortui c. vt intelligas infernum dici vbi continentur animae quasi quoddam sepulchrum animae extra hunc corporalem mundum stcut terra est sepulchrum corporum quid autem illud sit nobis est incognitum to be that secret withdrawing place where the soules are conteined and which is as it were the graue of the soule without the compasse of this corporall world as the earth is of the body but what this is saith he it is vnknowen to vs. This conceit it seemeth hee drew either from the errour of Pope Iohn aforesaid or from the Popish fable of Limbus patrum reteining as yet some taste of that corruption which had beene long growing in him nad in respect whereof hee somewhere beseecheth his Reader to reade many of his works with compassion remembring that hee was sometimes a Monke as acknowledging that from his Cloister hee drew many things that were vnsound and in his writings might escape him vnawares But whatsoeuer his fancie were when hee wrote that Commentarie vpon Ecclesiastes hee was afterwards in expounding Genesis so farre from that opinion wherewith M. Bishop chargeth him as that most comfortablie hee setteth foorth the hope of the faithfull in their death yea euen in that very place whence M. Bishop cireth him the greater is his sinne that by dismembring a sentence would make him say that that is directly contrarie to the drift and purpose of that whole discourse He taketh occasion of his speech by the storie of Abrahams death and thereupon saith m Luther in Gen. c. 25. Nos habemus gratiam donum ac manifestam multiplicem scientiam de morte vita Siquidem certi sumus saluatorem nostrum Christum Iesum sedere ad dexteram dei patris expectare nos decedentes ex hac vita Quandocunque igitur excedimas è viuis ad Episcopum animarum nostrarum egredimur qui recipit nos inmanus suas is noster Abrahā est cuius cōplexu fruimur is viuit imò regnat perpetuò We haue a grace gift euen a manifest and manifold knowledge concerning death and life for we are sure that our Sauiour Iesus Christ sitteth at the right hand of God the Father and expecteth vs when we depart out of this life Whensoeuer therefore we die we goe to the bishop of our soules who receiueth vs into his hands He is our Abraham whose bosome or embracing we enioy he liueth and reigneth for euer Againe he saith n Ibid. In Christo mors non est acerba sicut impijs est sed est commutatio huius miserae calamitosae vitae in quietam bes● tam. c. Et paulò post Multi loci scripturae sanctae comprobant quòd post mortem non morimur sed viuimus simplicitèr Esa 57. Requiescit in cubili c. Ingrediuntur non in mortem purgatorium aut infernum sed in pacem Death in Christ is not bitter as it is to the wicked but it is the changing of this wretched and miserable life into a quiet and blessed life Many places of Scripture saith he doe prooue that after death wee die no more but doe simply or perfectly liue And alledging the words of Esay o Esa 57.2 Peace commeth he shall rest in his bed whosoeuer walketh before him he inferreth They enter not into death into purgatorie or hell but into peace Heereupon hee mooueth a question p Et mox Alia quaestio nascitur cùmcertū sit viuere esse in pace animas qualis illa vita aut quies sit Haec verò sublimior difficihor est quàm vt à nobis possit definiri deus enim noluit id a nobis cognosci in hac vita sufficit igitur nobis haec cognitio non egredi animas ex corporibus in periculum cruciatuum aut poenarum inferni sed esse eis paratum cubiculum in quo dormiant in pace Differunt tamen somrus siue quies huius vitae futurae Homo enim in hac vita defatigatus diurno labore sub noctem intrat in cubiculum suum tanquam in pace vt ibi dormiat ea nocte fruitur quite neque quicquam scit de ●llo malo siue incendij siue caedu Anima autem non sic dormit sed vigilat patitur visiones loquelas angelorū dei Ideo somnus in futura vita profundior est quàm in hac vita tamen anima coram deo viuit seeing it is certaine that the soules liue and are in peace what maner of life or rest that is This saith hee is a higher and harder question than can be decided by vs for God would not haue vs to know it in this life It sufficeth vs to know that our soules depart not from our bodies to danger of the torments or paines of hell but that there is a chamber prouided for them where they may sleepe in peace But yet saith he there is difference betwixt the sleepe or rest of this life and of the life to come For man in this life being wearied with the daies labour at night entreth into his chamber as in peace that there he may sleepe and so in the night he enioyeth rest and knoweth nothing of any euill either of fire or of sword But the soule sleepeth not so but waketh and enioyeth the sight and heareth the speeches of the Angels and of God Therefore the sleepe in the life to come is more profound than in this life and yet the soule liueth in the presence of God Out of these last words M. Bishop taketh the occasion of his quarrell expounding sleepe as wee commonly take it as if Luther meant that the soule in death became wholly deuoid of all sense knowledge and vnderstanding and were as it were dead vntill the last day But what truth or conscience may we thinke is in this man who thus obiecteth the words as if Luther had put the soule in case of death when notwithstanding in the end of the same sentence he addeth that it liueth in the presence of God and in the whole circumstance of the place testifieth by the Scripture that it enioieth the bosome of Iesus Christ the sight and speech of God and his Angels a most peacefull and blessed life and that this sleepe is not such but that the soule waketh alwaies The meaning of Luther is plaine who finding the rest of the soules of the faithfull termed in Scripture a sleepe would signifie that this sleepe is a more sound and perfect rest than any is in this life voide of trouble and feare free from all knowledge of miserie and sorrow not distracted or interrupted with the cares or cogitations of our state not reckoning number of daies or length of yeeres all time seeming short for that blissefull and happie pleasure and conten●ment that is yeelded to the soule thereby For further declaring heereof he addeth anon after q Ibid. Qui somnum