Officer of the CHVRCH and so to vs as cheif Officers succeeding him which is also Mr B judgement pag. 94. Others affirm it to belong to Peter here as a Minister of the word and sacraments and the like and so consequently to belong to all other Ministers of the gospel equally which succeed Peter in those and the like administrations But we for our partes do beleeve professe that this promise is not made to Peter in any of these forenamed respects nor to any office order estate dignity or degree in the Church or world but to the confession of faith which Peter made by way of answer to Christs question who demaunding of the disciples v. 15. whom amongst the variety of opinions that went of him ver 14. they thought him to be was answered by Peter in the name of the rest Thou art Christ the sonne of the lâ—ving God ver 16. To this Christ replyes ver 17. blessed arâ— thou Symon the sonne of Ionas c. and ver 18. thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not overcome it and v. 19. I will give unto thee the keyes of the kingdome of heaven whatsoever thou shalt bind vpon earth shal be bound in heaven and whasoever thou shalt loose on earth shal be loosed in heaven So that the building of the Church is vpon the rock of Peters coÌ„fession that is Christ whom he confessed this faith is the foundation of the Church against this faith the gates of hell shall not prevayl this faith hath the keyes of the kingdome of heaven what this faith shall loose or bind on earth is bound loosed in heaven And thus the Protestant divines when they deal against the Popes supremacy do generally expound this scripture though Mr B. directly make the Pope and his shavelings Peters successours in this place as hereafter wil appeare Now vpon the former ground it followeth that whatsoever person hath received the same pretious faith with Peter as all the faithfull have â— Pet. 1. 1. that person hath a part in this gift of Christ whosoever doth confesse publish manifest or make knowen Iesus to be that Christ the sonne of the living God and Saviour of the world that person opens heaveÌ„ gate looseth sin partakes with Peter in the vse of the keys And herevpon also it followeth necessarily that one faithful man yea or woman eyther may as truely and effectually loose and bind both in heaven and earth as all the Ministers in the world But here I know the Lordly clergy like the bulles of Bashan will roar lowd vpon me as speaking things intollerably derogatory to the dignitie of Preisthood and it may be some others also eyther through ignorance or superstition will take offence at this speach as confounding all things but there is no such cause of exception For howsoever the keyes be one and the same in nature and efficacy in what faithful mans or mens handes soever as not depending eyther vpon the number or excellency of any persons but vpon Christ alone yet is it ever to be remembred that the order and manner of vsing them is very different These keyes in doctrine may be turned as well vpoÌ„ them which are without the Church as vpon them which are within and their sinnes eyther loosed or bound Math. 28. 19. but in discipline as we speak not so but onely vpon them which are within 1 Cor. 5. 12. 13. Againe the Apostles by their office had these keyes to vse in all Churches yea in all nations vpon earth ordinary Elders for their particular flockes Act. 14. 23. 20. 28. Lastly there is an vse of these keyes publiquely to be had and an vse privately an use of them by one person severally and an use of them by the whole Church ioyntly and together an vse of theÌ„ ministeriall or in office and an vse of them out of office but the power of the gospel which is the keyes is still one and the same notwithanding the divers manner of vsing it And this distinction well observed will stop the hole by which Mr Bernard in his reply sundry times scapes out where otherwise he should be vnavoydably taken in Mr Smythes arguments by taking vantage at and perverting of a phrase vsed by Mr Sm which is the ministeriall power of Christ. This ministeriall power Mr S. makes that externall coÌ„municated delegated power of Christ with and to the Church serving onely for manifestation and declaration of the remission or retention of sinnes opposing ministeriall power in the creature to that power essentiall incommunicable which is inhaerentin Christ and God the creator but Mr B. on the other side eyther ignorantly or deceiptfully misinterprets the terme Ministeriall as meant onely of the power in office opposed to that which is out of office and so creeps out at this cranny But with what reason can it be eyther conceived or suggested that Mr Smyth should affirme that the body of the Church or a private brother out of office should have this power spoken of in office Thus much to prove that all the pretious promises Math. 16. were made to Peter in respect of his confession of faith and so consequently to all others which succeed him in the same confession and amongest the rest the vse of the keyes though not in the same order or office with Peter which was peculiar vnto him with some few others It followeth First if the keyes of the kingdome of heaven be appropriated vnto the officers then can there be no forgivenes of sinnes nor salvation without officers for there is no enterance into heaven but by the dore there is no clyming over any other way without the key the doore cannot be opened so then belike if eyther there be no officers in the Church as it may easily come to passe in some extreame plague or persecution howsoever in England a man may haue a Preist for the whisteling and must needs be in the Churches of Christ in our dayes eyther in their first plaÌ„ting or first calling out of Babylon for Antichrists masse-preisthood is not essentially Christs true Mâ—nistery or if the officers take away the key of knowledge as the Scribes Pharisees did will neither enter in themselves nor suffer them that would then must the miserable multitude be content to be shut out and perish eternally for ought is knowen to the contrary They haue no remedy in this case no redresse may be had of this evill no meanes vsed to avoid it Though the Pope cary with him thowsands to hell no man may say vnto him Sir why do you sâ— To admonish the Officers of their sinne were against common sense that the father should be subiect to his children the work dominere over the workman the seeds-man be ordered by the corn and to excoÌ„municate them and call new were intolerable vsurpation of the keyes this power is given to the chief
for the exercising of the censures that belongs not to the whole body or to any member thereof principall or lesse principall but to the Bishops and his substitute which are forreyners and strangers as in theyr office from the true Church so even in theyr persons from yours All your portion in the censures Mr B. is to do the exequutioners office when the Officiall hath played the iudge which if you should be so bold as to refuse besydes the punishment of your contumacy the Church doore would do your office for the bull of excommunication hanged vp there by the sumner byndes the offenders both in heaven earth And for the position it self howsoever we do indeed maynteyne the most of the particulars against which Mr B. intends his refutation yet as he sets it down we do vtterly disclayme it with all the errors in it First for teaching in the Church we do not vse it promiscuously nor suffer it to be vsed but according to the order as we are perswaded which Christ and his Apostles have prescribed And for the sacraments the contrary to that which you affirme is to be seene of all men in our confession of fayth wherein it is held that no sacraments are to be administred vntill Pastors or Teachers be ordayned in theyr office neyther have we practised otherwise And this Mr B. knew when he writ this book as well as our selves Thirdly touching the censures we do expresly confesse that the power as to receive in so to cut of any member is given to the whole body together of every christian congregation and not to any one member a pâ—â—t or to more members sequestâ—ed from the whole vsing the mâ—etest member for the pronouncing the censures And answerable to our profession is our practise with what conscience then or credit Mr B can father vpon vs those bastardly runnagaâ—es let God men iudge These things being thus the vntruthes which he sayth we build vpon this opinion are his and not ours as the groundwork is his so is the whol building raysed from it But touching interpretation of scripture by private brethren and pollution by sinn vnreformed in the Church separation from it for the same we shall speak in their places Onely I desyre it may be observed that rather then Mr B. will forbeare to accuse vs that we hold it lawfull for one person to excommunicate the whole Church he will back this most odious calumniation with as fond and false an assertion and that is that separating from a Church and excommunicating of it is all one in substance though called lesse odiously But the contrary is manifested by these two reasons First excommunication is a sentence judiciall presupposing ever a solemn and superiour power over the party sentenced but no such thing is inferred vpon separation 2. Excommunication is onely of them which are within and of the Church but separation may be from them without And I would know of Mr B. whither a person though never so meane might not separate from the assemblies of Pagans Turkes Iewes Papists other haeretiques and Idolaters I hope he would not draw such a man within his separatists schism yet for the same person to excoÌ„municate such an assembly were a sinful prophanation of Gods ordinance And though we held as we do nothing lesse that one man might excommunicate the whole Church yet were it not more as you affirm then your Church allowes to any Bp. in Engl. no nor so much by a thousaÌ„d parts for one Bishop with you may excommunicate a thousand Churches every Diocesan Bishop all the Churches in his Dioces the two Provincial Bishops theyr two Provinces so livelyly do the reverend fathers the Bishops resemble the holy father the Pope which may judge all men but be judged by none The next collection made agaynst us is that we hould that two or three gathered together must be a Church which hath the whole power of Christ and may preseÌ„tly make them officers vse the discipline of Christ. No such hast Mr B. of making officers presently we make no dumb Ministers neyther dare we admit of any man eyther for a teaching or governing Elder of whose ability in prayer prophecying debating of Church matters we have not had good experience before he be so much as nominated to the office of an Elder amoÌ„gst vs remeÌ„bring alwayes the deep charge of the Apostle to lay hands suddeynly on man nor to be partakers of other mens sums But this we hold and affirm that a company consisting though but of two or three separated from the world whither vnchristian or antichristian and gathered into the name of Christ by a covenant made to walk in all the wayes of God knowen vnto them is a Church and so hath the whole power of Christ. And for the clearing of this truth I will propound and so prove by the scriptures these two heads 1. First that a company of faithfull people thus covenanting together are a Church though they be without any officers amoÌ„g them coÌ„ntrary to that your Popish opinioÌ„ here insinuated els where expressed that a company is no where in all the new testament called a Church Christian familyes excepted but when they have theyr officers and that otherwise they are called beleevers Disciples but not a Church but onely by anticipation as heaven and earth are so called before they were Gen. â— 1. that the officers give theÌ„ the denominatioÌ„ of a Church 2. That this company being a Church hath interest in all the holy things of Christ within amongst theÌ„selves immediately vnder him the head without any forreyn ayd assistance Of which holy things in particular we shall consider as they come in our way These two grounds by the grace of God I will prove in order and for the confirmation of the former take these reasons The first is gathered from the authours owne words that a coÌ„pany of holy persons without officers are called beleevers disciples but not a Church which is all one as if he sayd that a Church is not called a Church for the word Church is no more then a coÌ„pany or assembly howsoever gathered together and so a set company of visible beleevers must needs be a constituted visible Church and to manifest the vanity of that distinction that one place shall serue Act. 11. 26. where in the same verse the same persons are called the Church Disciples and Christians Two or three or more people making Peters confession Math. 16. are the Church But two or three or more may make this confession without officers Therefore such a company is a Ch The former proposition is evident by that promise Christ made to build his Church vpon the rock of Peters confession The second namely that men without officers may professe their faith is without question except we will hold that without officers no men can
Prophet must first haue his hand vpon him whom the rest of the people must follow in putting him to death The last words Publican and Heathen do not declare that Christ speakes of the Iewes at that time eyther onely or civily but serve for other purposes as I shall presently manifest taking Arguments from these words as from all the rest to prove that Christ here speakes of sinne and of excommunication for sinne My first Reason I draw from the cohaerence wherein I have formerly manifested Christ speakes not of private injuries onely but of all such scandalles as are to be found in that streyt way to heaveÌ„ no nor of injuries at all as they hurt the outward man but as they are sinnes and hurt and hinder the soul in the way of godlynes and so by the consequence of cohaerence if Christs words hang one vpon an other he speaks v. 15. 16. 17. of sinne and the carying of it 2. I reason from the terme brother which since it apperteyned at this tyme froÌ„ the disciples to many which might not be brought before the Iewish Synedrion as to the beleeving Romaynes Samaritans and the like cannot be meant as is pretended but speaks of a religious fellowship to which any brother may be brought of what country or condition soever As the word haâ—artáno turned offend is of generall signification by your own graunt and so cannot be restreyned to that particular kind of offence so is it most properly vsed for sinne and that vsually by this Evangelist Mat. 3. 6. 9. 2. 12. 31. and 26. 28. and which is specially to be observed when Luke would speak of trespasses or offences as sinnes against God he vseth this word but when in the same place he speaks of them as of injuries against men he vseth another word Ch. 11. 4. And see how soundly Mr B. deales when he should shew that the word turned offend is not meant of sinnes but of injuries he brings in foure principall writers varying as he sayth about the word and yet the vnadvised man considers not that all four of them as he himself alledges them vnderstand it of sinne and not one of them of injuries so speak against him If Christ here spake of injuries where he sayth if he heare thee thou hast wonne or gayned thy brother he would haue sayd thou hast wonne or gayned thy goods or good name wherein he injuryed thee If these words be meant of injuries and wrongs then Christ commaunds his disciples not to suffer wrongs at their brethrens hands but to deal with them in the order here prescribed for Christ expresly commaunds to tell the Church and so Christs doctrine and Pauls teaching the suffring of wrong should contradict the one the other By this exposition one Iew might account an other as an heathen which was vtterly vnlawfull he might not refuse religious communion with him in the temple into which no heathen might come he might not deny him a portion in the land of Canaan the type of the kingdome of heaven he might not account or call him other then a brother whatsoever he were till the time came of the Iewes defraction or breaking off for vnbeleef Act. 7. 2. 22. 1. 33. 1. Rom. 11. 17. This interpretation confirmes a point of Anabaptistry namely that it is not lawfull for brethren so remayning to sue at Caesars barre where it is most evident that brethren alwayes might and may yea such a case may fall out ought to sue without any alienation of affection or such heathenish thought one of another as Mr B. would have Christ in this place to commend vnto them for even these last words let him be to thee as an heathen and publican are a commaundement as let your speach be yea yea nay nay hundreds others delivered in the scriptures vnder the same form of words And to conclude Christ our Saviour in these words describes excommunication by the effects of it which are withdrawing from the brother obstinate in sinne both in religious and civile fellowship and familiaritie as the Iewes did withdraw both froÌ„ the Heathens and Publicans in both Ioh. 4. 9. Act. 10. 3. 31. 28. Luk. 15. 2. 15. 10. 11. And this very phrase Paul most clearely expounds when he directs the Church 1 Cor. 5. 11. not to be commingled with obstinate offenders nor to eat with them this ever provided that no excommunication or other act in religion whatsoever may dissolve eyther civil or naturall societie The next Reason is drawne from verse 18. where Christ ratifying in the hands of his Church this his power speaks in expresse terms of binding and loosing not onely in earth but in heaven also which words me thinks alone should satisfie the conscience of any godly minded man yea and stop the mouth of the most shameles that Christ speaks of sinne and sin onely Yet is Mr B. neyther satisfied nor silent but replyes that binding and loosing in this place is not properly or onely to be vnderstood of Christs Ministers but is allowed to private persons and for this pag. 223 he brings sundry reasons Consider Reader this severe censurer of Mr Smythes vnstablenes Mr B. in his former book pag. 95. will have this power of binding and loosing spoken of in this place to be in the officers of the Châ— two or three and at no hand in private persons and for this there he brings sundry reasons in this his next book this power is â—lâ—tâ—ed to two or three private persons and must not be drawne to the Ministerie onely and for this he brings as many reasons Observe further the very sum of Mr B. answer is that Christ speaks not here of binding and loosing in the office of Ministerie So we affirm that by two or three having this power cannot be meant two or three Ministers considered severally from the body which alone are not the Church for any publick administration but the officers of the Church but by two or three are meant the meanest coÌ„munion or societie of saints whether with officers or without officers And is this a sufficient answering of an adversary to bring sundry reasons to prove the very thing which he affirmes Adde to all these that where the injuries offred to Christs disciples and such as would respect his direction were vsually for the profession of Christ it had been a most idle course to have complayned eyther to the Iewish Synedrion or Romish Magistracy which would have added injurie to injurie Lastly where Christ v. 23. in his answer to Peters quaestion makes the protasis or first part of his comparison the kingdom of heaven which is the Church he shewes plainely that all the while he hath spoken of Church affaires and the carying of them And thus much to prove that the Lord Iesus the King of his Church hath left in this 18. of Math a rule order
speach to the 2. person not saying what it but what you shall bind and loose c. In so saying you give the cause though you presently eat vp your own graunt For you affirm that by the Church ver 17. is meant the whole body of which Christ speaks in the third person and what say wee more But where you adde that the authoritie is not given till the 18. vers and that then Christ turns his speach to his Apostles it is your own devised glosse For first it is evident that Christ establisheth the power of binding and loosing in the hands of the Church speaking in the 3. person v. 17. that so firmely as what brother soever refuseth to heare her voice is to be expelled from all religious cōmunion Vnto this the 18. v. is added partly for explanation and partly for confirmation For where as the party admonished might say with himself well if the Church disclaim mee I shall disclaym it if it condemn me I shall condemn it again the Lord doth here back the Churches censures for her incouragement and for the terrour of the refractary despising her voice and that vnder a contestation that what she bindes and looseth vpon earth namely after his will he also will bind and loose in heaven And for the change of persons in the 17. and 18 verses it is merely grammaticall and not naturall It is common with the Holy Ghost sometimes for elegancy sometimes for explication sometimes for further inforcement of the same thing to and vpon the same persons thus to vary the phrase of speach in the first second or third person grammatically as the reader may take a tast in these particulars Psal. 75. 1. Is. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. c. Math. 5. 10. 11. 12. c. and in this very Chapt. v. 7. 8. Rom. 6. 14. 15. 16. 8. 4. 5. 12. 13. c. Your 3. Reason that bycause Christ speakes of a few two or three gathered together therefore he meanes the officers of the Church and not all the body is of no force if the body consist but of two or three as it comes to passe where Churches are raysed in persecution as the most true Churches are Yet if Christ do speak of two or three officers of a Church gathered together in his name he speaks against you where all the power of the keyes over many 1000. Churches are in the hands of two Arch-Prelates and from them delegated and derived to their severall vnderlings But the truth is that gratious promise which Christ here layes downe for the comfort of all his saints you do engrosse into the hands of a few Elders You might aswel affirme that onely two or three officers gathered together have a promise to be heard in their prayers and not a communion of two or three brethren for Christ v. 19. 20. speakes principally and expressely of prayer though with reference to the binding and loosing of sin which as all other ordinances are sanctified by prayer The very scope of the place and reason of the speach is this The Lord Iesus had v 18. enfranchised the Church with a most excellent and honourable priveledge now the disciples did already see with their own eyes and were more fully taught by their Maister that the Church should arise from small and base beginnings and that it was also by reason of persequution subject to great dissipation Math. 7. 14. 10. 17. 18. 22. 23. 13. 31. 32. least therefore their harts should be discouraged and they or others driven into suspition that the Lord would any way neglect them or his promise towards them for their paucity and meannes he most gratiously prevents and frees them from that jealousy telles them and all others for their comfort that though the Church or assembly consist but of two or three as such beginnings the true Church of God had and have though your English Church begū with a kingdome in a day Act. 16. 14. 15. 17. 34. 19. 7. yet that should no way diminish their power or prejudice the accomplishment of his promise And the reason hath been formerly rendred bycause this power for binding loosing being given to the fayth of Peter depends not vpon the order of office multitude of people or dignity of person but merely vpon the word of God And hence is it that Christ thus gratiously descends even to two or three wheresoever assembled in his name yea though it be in a Cave or Den of the earth of which most gratious and necessary priveledge you would bereave them Now in your 4. Reason out of v. 19 you do most ignorantly erre in the grāmaticall construction for you make a change of the person agayne where there is no change at all Christ speakes onely in the third person as the originall makes it plaine though the English tongue do not so distinctly manifest it to an ignorant man Christ sayth not whatsoever you two shall agree of shal be given to them that is to the Church but whatsover two of you shall agree of or consent in they two that so agree shall obteyne it of God Which words Mr B. you do most vnsufferably pervert to the seducing of the ignorant as if Christ had sayd if two or three of you officers or you two or three officers shall agree together of a thing whatsoever they that is the Church shall desire namely of the Officers for so you expound the words it shal be givē them where it is most evident that they which are to agree vpon the thing they are to ask it and that of God who will give it them And where the scripture sayth that the brother offended speaking indefinitely of any brother and so of the Officers themselves must complayn to the Church M B. on the contrary as if he would even beard the Lord Iesus tells vs the Church must complayn to the Officers Your 5. Reason followes with many litle ones in the womb of it which you bring forth in order to prove that Christ speakes here figuratively and that by the Church he means the governours The first is It agrees with the practise of the Iewish Church frō whence it is held that the manner of governing in the Church is fetched And is this the necessary proof you speak of whatsoever is so held is so in truth And yet in your second book as hath been shewed you bring in sundry men holding contrary things as if contraries could be true Well I confesse it is so held and that by many with whom I would gladly consent if the scriptures taught me not to hold otherwise It had been good here the authour had shewed vs what the government of the Iewish Church was and not thus sleightily to have passed over things of this moment For the purpose in hand thus much The Church of the Iewes was a nationall Church the Lord separating vnto himself the whole natiō
that bycause one thing is done that an other might follow vpon it that therefore the latter which is to follow is also done And for the poynt as it is the work of the spirit to lead men into all truth as all that are Christs or mēbers of his body have his spirit so doth it follow that all the members of the Church have the spirit given them of God to lead them into all truth though it have not his full work by reason of the cōtrary work of the flesh in this life wher all mē know but in part 3. That Mr. Bar holds every truth in the scriptures fundamentall that is as they expound it Pag 147. such as if it be not known and obeyed the whole religiō and fayth of the Church must needs fall to the ground Mr. Ainsworth hath set down his words from which no such collection can be made he directs them that worthily agaynst these deceivers which knowing acknowledging that they want many speciall ordinances of Christ and are burdened in stead of them with the inventions of Antichrist do notwithstanding encourage themselves and others by these distinctiōs that they haue the fundamentall truthes of the gospell and whatsoever is necessary to salvation and the like in a purpose to go on all their life long in disobedience For which men how much better were it to consider how it is written that whosoever shall break one of the least commaundments and teach men so he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven then thus to turn vpon them which reprove them for their vnfaythfulnes and misinterpreting their sayings most injuriously to spend thus many words as these ministers do in confuting their owne corrupt glosses Their fourth and last Argument is for that all the known Churches in the world acknowledge their Church for their sister and giue her the right hand of fellowship This Argum. hath been sundry tymes vrged by Mr. Ber. and so answered sundry tymes both by M. Ainsworth and my self in the former part of my book whether I must refer the reader contenting my self with a breif observation of such vntruthes and errours as these ministers are driven vnto in the prosecuting of this Argument as First that all the known Churches in the world are well acquaynted with their doctrine and liturgy to which they should also ad their book of ordination and canons Ecclesiasticall for their ministery and government then which nothing is more vntrue Beza which was specially interessed in these matters will hardly be perswaded of the true state of things touching dispensations pluralityes the power of excommunication in one man and the like It is most vntrue that God hath sanctifed the testimony of Churches for a principall help in the decyding of controversies in this kind It is though some help yet lesse principall yea the least of many 3. That Paul feared that without the approbation of Iames and Cephas and Iohn he should have run in vayn Paul feared no such thing for he was both assured of his calling from the Lord and had also taken long before that tyme good experience of the Lords blessing vpon his ministery both amongst the Iewes and Gentiles and knew right assuredly that his preaching was not in vayne His care was to take away from the weak all scruple of mynde or iealousy of contention amongst the Apostles he went vp to Ierusalem to confer with them 4 That Paul sought to win cōmendation and credit to the orders which he by his Apostolicall authority might have established by the iudgement of other Churches Whereas the Apostle Paul did by his Apostolicall authority appoynt those orders in all those churches he speaks of as the scriptures quoted testify 1 Cor 4. 7. 17. 16. 1. Besides the Church of England can win no great credit to her orders by the orders of other Churches considering how contrary she is in them to all other Churches departed from Rome whom alone in very many the resembleth Fiftly the testimony which Iohn Baptist gave of Christ is vnfitly brought for the testimony of one Church of an other For it was the proper and principall work of †Iohns calling to give witnes of Christ wherein also he could not erre It is not so with or between any Churches in the world Where it is further affirmed that there are cases wherein one Church is commaunded to seek the iudgement of other Churches and to account it as the iudgment of God for which Act 15. 2. is alledged as it is true that one Church is in cases to seek the judgement and help of an other so is it vntrue that the judgement of that other Church or of all the Churches in the world is to be accounted as the judgment of God Indeed the decrees of the Apostles at Ierusalem being by imediate infallible direction of the H Ghost were to be accounted as the judgement of God but for any ordinary eyther Churches or persons to challenge the like vnto their determinations were popelike praesumption To the Ministers demand in the next place Sayth Christ to any particular congregation of the faythful in our land Whatsoever they bind in earth is bound in heaven Mat. 18. 18. and sayth he it not also to the Churches of other nations I do answer that if Christ have so sayd to the particular cōgregatiōs who hath sayd it to the Praelates their substitutes or to any officer or officers excluding the body of the Congregation Even none but he whose work it is to gainsay Christ to subvert his order 2. If any of your parishes be such congregatiōs why do not you as faythful Ministers exhort thē to guide them in the vse of this power of binding loosing which Christ hath given them Or are not you content to suffer them to go on and your selves to go before them in the losse of this liberty yea in a most vile subjection to their and your spirituall Lords which have vsurped it And for the Argument it is of no force for neyther hath any one Church in the world that power over an other nor all the Churches in the world over any one which the meanest Church hath over any her member or members whomsoever One Church may forsake an other but juditially to censure or excommunicate it may it not The same answer for substance may serve for that which is objected from 1 Cor. 14. 32. Besides no Church can so fully discern of the estate of an other Church as it can of the proper members apperteyning vnto it Yea I ad that in this respect wee are better able to iudge of the Church of Engl then are any forreyn Churches notwithstanding our weaknes bycause they do not in any measure know the estate of it as we do Lastly as that saying