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earth_n apostle_n heaven_n loose_v 2,492 5 10.3143 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A04207 An attestation of many learned, godly, and famous divines, lightes of religion, and pillars of the Gospell iustifying this doctrine, viz. That the Church-governement ought to bee alwayes with the peoples free consent. Also this; that a true Church vnder the Gospell contayneth no more ordinary congregations but one. In the discourse whereof, specially Doctor Downames & also D. Bilsons chiefe matters in their writings against the same, are answered. Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624. 1613 (1613) STC 14328; ESTC S117858 154,493 335

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these_o be_v enough_o chap._n four_o the_o public_a consent_n of_o many_o late_a yet_o excellent_a church_n herein_o with_o us._n nevertheless_o yet_o i_o will_v not_o spare_v to_o add_v hereunto_o also_o certain_a public_a voice_n of_o most_o famous_a church_n the_o consestion_n of_o the_o bohemian_a church_n have_v these_o word_n 〈◊〉_d word_n bohemia_n confess_v cap._n 〈◊〉_d animarun_n curatoribus_fw-la &_o singulis_fw-la ecclesiasticis_fw-la communitatibus_fw-la sive_fw-la parvae_fw-la sint_fw-la sive_fw-la magna_fw-la clave_n concreditae_fw-la sunt_fw-la &_o concessae_fw-la sic_fw-la dominus_fw-la dixit_fw-la ecclesi●s_fw-la amen_o dico_fw-la vobis_fw-la quacunque_fw-la ligaveritis_fw-la in_o teria_fw-la erunt_fw-la ligata_fw-la in_o coelo_fw-la &_o quaecunque_fw-la solveritis_fw-la in_o terra_fw-la erunt_fw-la soluta_fw-la in_o coelo_fw-la et_fw-la mox_fw-la nam_fw-la ubi_fw-la duo_fw-la aut_fw-la tres_fw-la congregati_fw-la fuerint_fw-la in_o nomine_fw-la meo_fw-la ibi_fw-la in_o 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that_o care_n of_o other_o man_n soul_n as_o christian_a people_n will_v have_v of_o their_o own_o six_o here_o be_v other_o consequent_n of_o a_o most_o high_a nature_n both_o in_o respect_n of_o god_n and_o also_o in_o respect_n of_o our_o self_n first_o in_o respect_n of_o god_n thus_o i_o gather_v and_o conclude_v if_o this_o opinion_n be_v false_a viz._n that_o the_o people_n consent_n in_o the_o church_n government_n be_v the_o apostle_n ordinance_n and_o christ_n immutable_a commandment_n for_o we_o then_o christ_n in_o his_o new_a testament_n be_v not_o the_o teacher_n institutor_n framer_n opinion_n framer_n impious_a opinion_n lord_n and_o lawgiver_n of_o his_o visible_a church_n which_o be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n upon_o earth_n at_o least_o he_o only_o be_v not_o and_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v not_o complete_a nor_o all-sufficient_a for_o matter_n of_o religion_n nor_o so_o complete_a as_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v and_o christ_n divine_a office_n of_o prophecy_n
if_o our_o proof_n stand_v or_o subvertion_n if_o your_o answer_n be_v good_a for_o if_o this_o fail_v well_o may_v bishop_n claine_v their_o authority_n by_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n by_o any_o divine_a precept_n express_v in_o the_o scripture_n they_o can_v not_o say_v he_o so_o let_v we_o see_v then_o how_o sound_o this_o will_v stand_v but_o first_o i_o desire_v he_o to_o remember_v if_o it_o happen_v that_o this_o his_o proof_n out_o of_o the_o scrip●●●●_n 〈◊〉_d subvert_v and_o then_o he_o be_v force_v to_o fly_v to_o the_o church_n custom_n for_o succour_n that_o himself_o have_v ruin_v cast_v down_o and_o deface_v that_o weak_a hold_v all_o ready_a so_o that_o there_o he_o can_v have_v no_o relief_n now_o then_o to_o his_o proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n that_o titus_n &_o timothy_n be_v bishop_n he_o frame_v 4._o argument_n for_o it_o 1._o that_o power_n to_o ordain_v sit_v minister_n to_o convent_n &_o discharge_v unfit_a prescribe_v to_o titus_n &_o timothy_n be_v no_o power_n proper_a to_o evangelist_n we_o grant_v this_o whole_o even_o the_o conclusion_n it_o be_v another_o point_n and_o nothing_o against_o us._n the_o conclusion_n of_o his_o 2._o argument_n be_v like_a to_o the_o former_a therefore_o we_o grant_v it_o also_o for_o this_o prove_v not_o that_o timothy_n or_o titus_n be_v proper_a bishop_n which_o be_v the_o question_n yet_o in_o the_o minor_a where_o he_o say_v that_o presbytery_n claim_v this_o power_n comit_v to_o timothy_n &_o tite_n even_o to_o ordain_v examine_v censure_n &_o deprive_v pastor_n i_o deny_v this_o to_o be_v true_a presbytery_n claim_v not_o this_o power_n neither_o have_v they_o it_o proper_o &_o original_o as_o bucer_n show_v 33._o show_v pag_n 33._o before_o proper_o and_o original_o the_o whole_a church_n have_v this_o power_n the_o presbytery_n have_v only_o the_o authority_n of_o administer_a the_o same_o &_o that_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n as_o piscator_fw-la and_o v●sinus_n ●1_n v●sinus_n pag._n 46._o ●1_n before_o do_v express_v and_o further_o i_o answer_v by_o that_o distinction_n above_o note_v this_o power_n of_o ordain_v examine_v censure_v etc._n etc._n commit_v to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n the_o presbytery_n in_o deed_n have_v and_o execute_v material_o but_o not_o formal_o which_o make_v his_o minor_a proposition_n to_o be_v false_a most_o clear_o his_o 3._o argument_n be_v conclude_v in_o no_o form_n but_o where_o he_o 391._o he_o perp._n gov_n pag._n 391._o say_v the_o precept_n of_o ordain_v and_o censure_v be_v deliver_v to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n and_o to_o those_o that_o shall_v succeed_v they_o unto_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n ergo_fw-la timothy_n power_n &_o function_n in_o this_o behalf_n must_v be_v perpetual_a this_o be_v true_a likewise_o material_o but_o not_o formal_o their_o successor_n be_v to_o execute_v the_o same_o in_o deed_n always_o as_o touch_v the_o material_a action_n those_o thing_n must_v be_v do_v but_o under_o divers_a form_n of_o ministery_n or_o manner_n of_o administration_n here_o timothy_n and_o titus_n be_v proper_o evangelistes_n do_v these_o action_n under_o the_o form_n of_o a_o evangelisticall_a ministry_n sometime_o apostle_n do_v the_o same_o action_n but_o under_o the_o form_n of_o a_o apostolical_a ministry_n after_o they_o bishop_n do_v the_o same_o action_n also_o but_o under_o the_o form_n of_o a_o proper_a bishop_n office_n etc._n etc._n wherefore_o the_o perpetuity_n of_o these_o action_n material_o which_o timothy_n and_o titus_n do_v prove_v not_o the_o office_n and_o ministry_n of_o timothy_n and_o titus_n formal_o to_o be_v perpetual_a this_o be_v a_o very_a weak_a conclusion_n and_o very_o crooked_a his_o 4._o argument_n be_v the_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n since_o the_o apostle_n time_n without_o exception_n have_v so_o construe_v the_o apostle_n word_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n touch_v their_o government_n and_o he_o name_v eusebius_n jerome_n ambrose_n etc._n etc._n d._n rainolds_n answer_v hart_n the_o priest_n 267._o confer_v pag._n 267._o i_o perceive_v the_o pope_n must_v fetch_v his_o supremacy_n from_o earth_n and_o not_o from_o heaven_n you_o be_v fall_v from_o scripture_n to_o eusebius_n even_o so_o our_o adversary_n when_o all_o be_v do_v they_o must_v fetch_v the_o diocesan_n l._n bishop_n office_n from_o earth_n and_o not_o from_o heaven_n they_o fall_v from_o scripture_n to_o eusebius_n etc._n etc._n and_o yet_o not_o eusebius_n not_o the_o rest_n do_v construe_v those_o precept_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n as_o belong_v only_o to_o bishop_n much_o ●●5_n much_o see_v before_o pag._n ●24_n ●●5_n less_o do_v the_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n since_o the_o apostle_n time_n without_o exception_n this_o be_v a_o strange_a hyperbole_n but_o these_o writer_n acknowledge_v timothy_n and_o titus_n to_o have_v ben_fw-mi bishop_n nay_o not_o diocesan_n l._n bishop_n they_o neither_o acknowledge_v nor_o know_v any_o such_o in_o their_o time_n as_o before_o have_v be_v show_v yet_o only_o of_o these_o our_o question_n be_v again_o they_o hold_v timothy_n &_o titus_n not_o to_o be_v bishop_n at_o all_o proper_o but_o in_o a_o general_a sense_n as_o 238._o as_o pag._n 230._o 238._o before_o i_o observe_v if_o they_o mean_v otherwise_o they_o miss_v the_o truth_n say_v d._n rainolds_n 267_o conf._n p._n 267_o howbeit_o they_o suffer_v none_o but_o bishop_n either_o to_o ordain_v or_o degrade_v presbyter_n yet_o as_o i_o say_v before_o not_o absolute_o with_o out_o the_o people_n consent_n as_o our_o l._n bishop_n do_v if_o any_o among_o they_o incline_v to_o neglect_v the_o people_n herein_o they_o do_v contrary_a to_o the_o canon_n of_o those_o time_n last_o it_o be_v true_a these_o ancient_n to_o much_o rest_v on_o custom_n &_o counsaill_n of_o man_n and_o humane_a policy_n in_o set_v the_o church_n government_n they_o as_o jerome_n incline_v to_o much_o to_o approve_v diocesan_n provincial_n and_o patriarchall_a bishop_n with_o too_o absolute_a power_n only_o ground_v upon_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n though_o they_o know_v they_o want_v divine_a disposition_n whence_o afterward_o antichrist_n easy_o spring_v up_o now_o than_o i_o pray_v with_o what_o colour_n can_v doct._n bilson_n from_o those_o precept_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n plead_v for_o our_o diocesan_n and_o provincial_n l._n bishop_n who_o they_o nothing_o concern_v and_o say_v the_o word_n be_v singular_a the_o charge_n be_v vehement_a the_o party_n be_v bishop_n 299._o bishop_n perp._n gov_n pag._n 299._o and_o how_o vain_o do_v he_o insult_v without_o reason_n charge_v we_o that_o 30●_n that_o pag._n 30●_n fire_n will_v better_o agree_v with_o water_n than_o we_o with_o ourselves_o which_o be_v his_o familiar_a custom_n not_o we_o after_o he_o let_v we_o see_v what_o d._n downame_n say_v for_o timothy_n and_o titus_n bishoprike_v true_o in_o effect_n he_o say_v nothing_o more_o for_o he_o follow_v d._n bilson_n most_o diligent_o yet_o he_o have_v a_o cartload_n of_o word_n about_o this_o point_n which_o he_o know_v well_o to_o be_v his_o only_a refuge_n wherein_o yet_o he_o can_v find_v no_o help_n first_o i_o will_v examine_v the_o pith_n of_o his_o discourse_n and_o they_o i_o will_v set_v down_o reason_n of_o i_o own_o prove_v sound_o that_o timothy_n &_o titus_n be_v not_o proper_a bishop_n first_o he_o say_v 75_o say_v def._n 4._o p._n 75_o it_o be_v presuppose_v in_o the_o epistle_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n that_o the_o apostle_n commit_v to_o they_o bishoply_n authority_n it_o be_v untrue_a this_o be_v not_o presuppose_v then_o the_o epistle_n be_v the_o very_a pattern_n and_o precedent_n of_o bishoply_n function_n &c_n &c_n well_o what_o then_o then_o timothy_n and_o titus_n be_v bishop_n i_o deny_v this_o consequence_n there_o be_v no_o truth_n in_o this_o and_o t.c._n answer_n to_o d._n whitgifts_n like_a argument_n be_v sound_o and_o good_a though_o this_o great_a logician_n call_v it_o 76._o it_o pag._n 76._o sleight_n and_o frivolous_a the_o direction_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n about_o ordination_n and_o jurisdiction_n be_v not_o 77._o not_o pag._n 77._o peculiar_a to_o bishop_n as_o he_o untrue_o add_v in_o the_o end_n for_o himself_o give_v this_o power_n and_o that_o right_o to_o other_o christian_n 99_o christian_n pag._n 99_o in_o case_n of_o necessity_n and_o the_o truth_n give_v it_o to_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n the_o 4.11_o the_o eph_n 4.11_o superior_n of_o bishop_n his_o reason_n 77._o reason_n pag._n 77._o these_o be_v perpetual_a direction_n be_v a_o excellent_a reason_n to_o prove_v that_o this_o power_n be_v indeed_o essential_o seat_v by_o christ_n in_o the_o congregation_n of_o the_o people_n people_n the_o power_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n essential_o in_o the_o people_n for_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o such_o christian_a congregation_n only_o be_v perpetual_a apostle_n