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A04474 A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie. Jewel, John, 1522-1571.; Harding, Thomas, 1516-1572. Answere to Maister Juelles chalenge. 1565 (1565) STC 14606; ESTC S112269 1,001,908 682

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in the stalle so he is now vpon the Aultar and as he was sometimes in the Womans Armes so is he now in the Priestes Handes True it is Christe was there and Christe is here but not in one or like sorte of Beinge For he was in the stalle by Bodily Presence vpon the Holy Table he is by waie of a Sacrament The woman in her armes helde him Really the Priest in his handes holdeth him onely in a Mysterie So saith S. Paule Christe dwelleth in our hartes and no doubtes the same Christe that laie in the stalle It is one and the same Christe but the difference standeth in the manner of his Being there For in the stalle he laie by Presence of his Bodie in our hartes he lieth by Presence of Faith If this Exposition seeme to M. Hardinge ouer exquisite or curious then wil I saie further Christe is so vpon the Table as the Faithful people is vpon the Table S. Augustine speakinge to the people saith thus Vos estis in Mēsa vos estis in Calice Yowe are vpon the Table yowe are in the Cuppe But the people is not there Grossely Really and in deede but in a Mysterie Euen so is Christes Bodie vpon the Table not Grossely not Really or in deede but in a Mysterie And as Chrysostome saith The Priestholdeth Christe in his hande euen so S. Gregorie saith Abel helde Christe in his hande and that foure thousande yeeres before Christe was borne and yet not a bare signe or a naked token but the very same Christe that Esaie sawe and that Iohn Baptist pointed with his finger For thus stande his woordes Quem Iohannes in Ostensione quem Esaias in locutione hunc Abel Significando in manibus tenuit Thus Chrysostome saith the Priest holdeth Christe in his hande as Iohn Baptist helde him as Esaie helde him as Abel helde him And that this was Chrysostomes meaninge it appeareth by the very forme and order of his woordes For he saith Thou Seest the holy Ghost thou Seest Touchest that princely Bodie Thus he speaketh of a Spiritual seeinge and touchinge wherewith we see and touche thinges be they neuer so farre absent from vs. For otherwise touchinge bodily sight M. Hardinge knoweth the Holy Ghost cannot be seene and by his owne Doctrine the Bodie of Christe is there Inuisible But least M. Hardinge take occasion hereof to saie This is a Fantastical and a Vaine kinde of seeinge Let him remember the woordes that S. Hierome writeth to Paula and Eustochium touchinge theire aboade at Bethleem Magos tria deferentes munera in visione beatis oculis vidisti Ipsa eadem munera Fide Deo obtulisti Cum i●sdem Magis Deum Puerum in Presepio adorasti Thou sawest with thine happie eyes the Wise menne carrieinge their three sortes of presentes Thou tookest the same presentes and offeredst them vnto God by Faith with the same Wise men thou Adouredst God beinge a Childe in the Manger She sawe the Wise men and yet sawe them not She receiued their Presentes and yet receiued them not She Adoured the Childe in the Manger and yet the Childe was not there Thus she did not verily or in deede and yet not vainely nor by waie of Fantasie notwithstandinge but truely and effectually by Presence of Faith Thus did the Wise menne see Christe thus doo we nowe see Christe Thus did they worship him thus doo we worship him They sawe him and worshipped him beinge in Earth we see him and worship him being in Heauen They had him Bodily Present we haue him Bodily Absent and Present onely to our Faith And in this behalf S. Ambrose saith Magis videtur quod non videtur It is best seene that is not seene That is to saie Wée sée more certainely with our Faith then wée can sée with the eies of our Bodie For our Bodily eie maie deceiue vs But the eie of our Soule whiche is Faith cannot deceiue vs. M. Hardinges reason hereof standeth thus The Priest at the time of the holy Ministration saide O God be merciful to me being a sinner And Looke vpon vs O Lorde Iesus Christe our God from thy holy Tabernacle and from the Throne of thy Glorie Ergo he made his praiers and gaue Adoration to the Sacrament Of the same premisses he might muche better conclude the contrary The Priest withdrewe his minde from these Sensible and Corruptible Elementes and Adoured Christe beinge in Heauen in his Tabernacle and in the Throne of his Glory Ergo he did not Adoure the Sacrament M. Hardinge The .22 Diuision S. Ambrose after longe searche and discussion howe that saienge of the Prophete might be vnderstanded Adore and woorship ye his footestoole because it is holie at length concludeth so as by the footestoole he vnderstandeth the Earthe bicause it is written Heauen is my seate and the Earthe is my footestoole And bicause the Earthe is not to be Adored for that it is a creature by this Earthe he vnderstandeth that Earthe whiche our Lorde Iesus tooke in the Assumption of his Fleashe of the Virgin Marie and hereupon he vttereth those plaine woordes for testimonie of the Adoration Itaque per Scabellum Terra intelligitur per Terram autem Caro Christi quam hodie quoque in Mysterijs Adoramus quam Apostoli in Domino Iesu Adorarunt And thus by the Footestoole Earthe may be vnderstanded and by Earthe the Fleashe of Christe whiche euen nowe adaies also we Adore in the Mysteries and the Apostles Adored in our Lorde Iesus S. Augustines learned handlinge of this place of the Psalme Adore ye his Footestoole bicause it is Holy maketh so euidently for this purpose that of al other authorities whiche in greate number might be broughte for proufe of the same it ought leaste to be omitted The place beinge longe I wil recite it in Englishe onely His woordes be these Adore ye his Footestoole bicause it is Holie See ye Brethern what that is he biddeth vs to Adore In an other place the Scripture saithe Heauen is my Seate and the Earthe is my Footestoole VVhat doothe he then bidde vs Adore and woorship the Earthe bicause he saide in an other place that it is the Footestoole of God And howe shal we Adore the Earthe where as the Scripture saithe plainely Thou shalt Adore thy Lorde thy God and here he saithe Adore ye his footestoole But he expoundeth to me what his footestoole is and saithe and the Earth is my footestoole I am made doubteful afraied I am to adore the Earthe leste he damne me that made Heauen and Earthe Againe I am afraied not to adore the footestoole of my Lorde bicause the Psalme saithe to me adore ye his footestoole I seeke what thinge is his footestoole and the Scripture telleth me The Earth is my footestoole Beinge thus waueringe I turne me to Christ bicause him I seeke here and I finde how without impietie the Earth may be adored For he tooke of
Earthe Earth bicause Fleashe is of Earth and of the Fleashe of Marie he tooke Fleash And bicause he walked here in Fleashe and that very Fleashe he gaue vs to eate to Saluation and noman eateth that Fleash except firste he adore it it is founde out how such a footestoole of our Lorde may be adored and howe we not onely sinne not by adoringe but sinne by not adoringe Doth not the Fleashe quicken and geue life Our Lorde himselfe saide when he spake of the commendation it selfe of that Earthe It is the spirite that quickeneth but the Fleashe profiteth nothinge Therfore when thou bowest thee selfe and fallest downe to euery such Earthe beholde it not as Earth but that holy One whose footestoole it is that thou doest adore for bicause of him thou doest adore And therefore here he added Adore ye his footestoole bicause it is Holy VVho is Holy He for whose loue thou adorest his footestoole And when thou adorest him remaine not by cogitation in Fleashe that thou be not quickened of the Spirite For the Spirite saithe he quickeneth and the Fleashe profiteth nothinge And then when our Lorde commended this vnto vs he had spoken of his Fleashe and had saide Excepte a man eate my Fleashe he shal not haue in him life Euerlastinge The B. of Sarisburie S. Ambrose and S. Augustine as thei agrée togeather for the exposition of the Psalme so touchinge the mater it selfe neither doo they any wise disagree from vs nor any wise agrée with M. Hardinge They teache vs humbly to Adoure Christes Fleashe but they teache vs not to Adoure the Sacrament of Christes Fleashe Thus M. Hardinge hath taken a néedeles labour to prooue a mater that is already prooued but the thinge that he should haue prooued he toucheth not This is to bolde abusinge of the simple Reader to beare him in hande that these godly Fathers teache vs to Adoure the Sacrament that spake not one woorde of Adouringe the Sacrament But M. Hardinge wil saie VVe must Adoure the Fleashe of Christe We graunt we beléeue it it is our Faithe we teache the people as the olde learned Fathers did that noman eateth that Fleashe but first he Adoureth it and that he deadly offendeth God and is wicked and gilty of the Lordes Bodie that Adoureth it not But as we Eate it so we Adoure it We eate it sittinge in Heauen at the Right hande of God Thither we lifte vp our hartes and there we Adoure it S. Ambrose saithe Stephanus in terris positus Christum tangit in Coelo Steuen standinge in the Earth toucheth Christe beinge in Heauen Againe he saithe Non Corporali tactu Christum sed Fide tangimus We touche Christe by Faithe and not by Corporal touching And as we touche Christe so we sée him that is with the Spiritual eies of our Faithe and not otherwise So S. Ambrose saithe in the place before alleged Stephanus intra Coelos Dominum cernit absentem Steuen seeth Christe beinge absente within the Heauens And for proufe hereof that al that Glorious ●●ght was meere Spiritual and not offered to the Corporal eie of the Bodie S. Augustine saith that S. Steuen stoode then vnder a roofe before the Iudges and sawe the Heauens open when with his Bodily eies he was not hable to looke vp and to see the Heauens There wee sée Christes Bodie there we Approache vnto it there wee touche it there we Taste it there we eate it there we Adoure it And doothe M. Hardinge thinke that the Religion of Christe is so Grosse and so sensible that wee cannot Eate or Adoure his Bodie onlesse it lye Corporally Present before our eies Uerily S. Augustine saithe Si Resurrexistis cum Christo dicit Fidelibus dicit Corpus Sanguinem Domini accipientibus Si Resurrexistis cum Christo que sursum sūt sapite vbi Christus est in Dextra Dei sedēs Quae sursum sunt quaerite non quae super Terram If ye be rysen agayne with Christe S. Paule saithe vnto the faitheful and vnto them that receiue the Bodie ●nd Bloude of Christe If ye be risen againe with Christe sauer the thinges that be aboue where Christe is sittinge at the right hande of God Seeke the thinges that be aboue and not the thinges that be vpon the Earthe And in this very place by M. Hardinge alleged he saithe Spiritualiter intelligite quod locutus sum Non hoc Corpus quod videtis manducaturi estis Vnderstande you Spiritually that I haue saide vnto you You shal not Eate with your bodily Mouthes this Bodie of mine that ye see Thus S. Augustine in the same place expoundeth and openeth his owne meaninge Doubtlesse as the wicked maye dishonour Christe so maye the Godly honour him But the wicked as S. Paule saith doo Crucifie the Sonne of God beinge in Heauen and Christe beinge in Heauen saithe vnto Paule beinge in the Earthe benethe Saule Saule Why doost thou persecute me Therefore the Godly beinge in Earthe may likewise Adoure and Honour Christe beinge in Heauen But they wil replie S. Ambrose saithe We doo Adoure Christes Fleashe in the Mysteries Hereof groweth their whole errour For S. Ambrose saithe not We doo Adoure the Mysteries or the Fleashe of Christe Really Present or Materially Conteined in the Mysteries as it is supposed by M. Hardinge Onely he saithe We Adoure Christes Fleashe in the Mysteries that is to saye In the Ministration of the Mysteries And doubtelesse it is our dutie to Adoure the Bodie of Christe in the Woorde of God in the Sacrament of Baptisme in the Mysteries of Christes Bodie and Bloude and where so euer we sée any steppe or token of it but specially in the Holy Mysteries for that there is liuely laide foorthe before vs the whole storie of Christes Conuersation in the Fleash But this Adoration as it is saide before neither is directed to the Sacramentes nor requireth any Corporal or Real Presence So S. Hierome saithe Paula Adoured Christe in the Stalle And That he him selfe Adoured Christe in the Graue And S. Chrysostome teacheth vs To Adoure Christes Bodie in the Sacrament of Baptisme Yet neither was Christes Bodie then Really Present in the Stalle or Graue nor is it now present in the Water of Baptisme Thus S. Ambrose saithe Wee Adoure the Fleashe of Christe in the Mysteries M. Hardinge The .23 Diuision Againe S. Augustine sheweth the maner and custome of his time touchinge the adoration of Christe in the Sacrament writinge thus ad Honora●um vpon the verse of the .21 Psalme Edent pauperes saturabuntur that is the poore shal eate and be filled and vpon that other Manducauerunt adorauerunt omnes diuites terrae al the ritche of the earth haue eaten and adored It is not without cause saith he that the riche and the poore be so distincted that of the poore it was saide before the poore shal eate and be filled and here of
the ritche they haue eaten and adored al that be the ritche of the earthe For they haue ben brought to the table of Christe and doo take of his Bodie and Bloude but they doo adore onely and be not also filled for as muche as they doo not folowe him Likewese in his exposition vpon that Psalme Al the ritche also saith he there of the earth haue eaten the Bodie of the humblenesse of their Lorde neither haue they ben filled as the poore vntil the folowing But yet they haue adored and woorshipped 170 It that is by adoration they haue acknowleged Christe their Lorde there present The B. of Sarisburie This place maye be passed ouer with the former answeare S. Augustine here speaketh of the Adoringe of Christe and not one woorde of the Adoringe of the Sacrament The whole drifte of his talke standeth in an Allegorie of Hungringe Eatinge Fillinge and Adouringe We Hunger Christe we Eate Christe we be Filled with Christe sittinge in Heauen and likewise we Adoure and woorship Christe sittinge in Heauen But S. Augustine saithe Comedunt Pauperem They Eate Christe beinge poore We knowe that Christe is nowe no lenger in the Dispensation of his Pouertie God hathe exalted him and geuen him a Name aboue al Names and made al thinges subiecte to his feete But S. Augustine calleth him Poore for that he so humbled him selfe and became obedient vnto the Deathe euen vnto the Deathe of the Crosse. In this respecte of his Crosse of his Deathe of his Pouertie wee embrace him we liue by that Bodie that was broaken for vs we be refreashed by that Bloude that was sheadde for vs. And thus we Eate Christe and be relieued and haue our life by him onely in respecte of his Bloud sheaddinge and of his Pouertie The Poore that haue refused and forsaken them selues Eate Christe sittinge in Heauen and are Filled with him But the Ritche Eate him and Adoure him likewise sittinge in Heauen but they are not Filled They see that Christe is the very true Messias that was looked for they see that al thinges are fulfilled that were written of him in the Prophetes and that his name is published vnto the endes of the worlde they beléeue that there is none other name vnder Heauen whereby they can be saued Therefore they Professe his Name they Beleeue in him they Eate him and Adoure him But they make some accompt● of the Worlde they forsake not them selues they folowe not Christe and therefore they are not filled with him Thus dooth S. Augustine expounde his owne meaninge Inde erat Piscator c. Of those Poore was Peter and Iohn and Iames and Matthew the Publicane They did Eate and weare filled for they suffred the same thinges that they had Eaten ▪ Christe gaue to them his Supper he gaue to them his Passion He is filled that foloweth the same Hitherto S. Augustine speaketh not one woorde of Adoration either of the Sacrament or of Christes Bodie as beinge Really Presente in the Sacrament Therefore M. Hardinge was the more blamewoorthy thus to adde woordes of his owne vnto S. Augustine and so vtterly to falsifie and to corrupte his meaninge It is no good Catholique pointe so to vse the Olde Fathers Uerily where as S. Augustine writeth thus Nec sicut Pauperes saturati sunt vsque ad imitationem Sed tamen Adorauerunt Neither were they filled as the Poore euen vnto the folowinge and yet notwithstandinge they Adoured M. Harding addeth therto of his owne a pretie litle it which he found not in S. Augustine so maketh it vp thus But yet haue they Adoured and woorshipped it and as if it were good text of S. Augustine afterward he furnisheth it out with this Exposition or Cōmentarie of his owne that is They haue acknowleged by Adoration Christe their Lorde there present His frendes wil hardely thinke there is so muche conninge in his dealinge He cannot lightly lacke Authorities as longe as he canne thus shape thē of his owne But S. Augustine knoweth not neither this Commentarie not this texte nor euer gaue M. Hardinge to vnderstande of this Corporal Presence As it is saide and prooued before wée sée Christe and worship Christe sittinge in Heauen Certainely S. Augustine who best knew his owne minde saith thus Habes aurum sed nondum tenes Praesentem Christum Thou hast golde but thou holdest not yet Christe Present S. Augustine saithe Christe is not here present M. Hardinges Commentarie saith Christe is here presente Now let the Reader consider whether of these twoo he wil beléeue M. Hardinge The .24 Diuision Furthermore writinge against Faustus the Heretike of the Manichees secte amongst other thinges he sheweth how the Ethnikes thought that Christen people for the honour they did before the Blissed Sacrament that is of Breade and VVine consecrated did honour Bacchus and Ceres whiche were false Goddes honoured of the Gentiles for the inuention of VVyne and Corne. VVhereof may iustly be gathered an argument that in those daies faithful people worshipped the Bodie and Bloud of Christe in the Sacrament vnder the Formes of Breade and VVine For els the Infidels coulde not haue suspected them of dooinge Idolatrie to Bacchus and Ceres The B. of Sarisburie This Gheasse hath neither sense nor sauour in it And therefore I maruel that M. Hardinge beinge learned and hauing as he saith suche stoare and choise of other woulde euer vse this for an argument For the very children in Grammar Schooles can tel him that the Heathens that Adoured Bacchus and Ceres as their Goddes yet notwithstandinge neuer gaue godly honour to Breade and Wyne And Cicero him selfe beinge an Heathen was hable to say Quis tam stultus est vt id quo vescitur credat esse Deum Who is so very a foole that wil beleeue the thinge that he eateth to be his God And in like sorte Iuuenal an Heathen Poete scorneth at this folie O Sanctas gentes quibus haec nascuntur in agris Numina O happy is that people that hath Goddes growinge in their fieldes The Heathens in their rude Gentilitie thought that Bacchus and Ceres had first founde out and taught them the vse of Breade and Wyne where as before they feadde of Akecornes and dranke water and therefore in remembrance and witnesse of so greate a benefite they honoured the one with Breade and the other with Wyne But that they euer honoured the Elementes of Breade and Wine I thinke M. Hardinge is not hable wel to shew Therefore he might haue formed his argument in this sorte The Christians were thought to honour their Sacramentes as the Heathens honoured Breade and Wine But the Heathens neuer honoured Breade and VVine with godly honour Ergo The Christians neuer honoured their Sacramentes with godly honour M. Hardinge The .25 Diuision One other most euident place touchinge this Honour and Adoration wee finde in him rehearsed by Gratian Li. Senten