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A25589 An Answer to the declaration of the pretended assembly at Dundee and to a printed paper intituled The protestation given in by the dissenting brethren to the General Assembly, July 21, 1652, reviewed and refuted &c., in which answer are set down ten steps of their defection who follow the way of publick resolutions : together with observations upon some of the acts of the p. assemblies at Dundee and Edinburgh and some papers concerning the endeavors of the protesters for union with their brethren who differ from them in judgement. 1653 (1653) Wing A3405; ESTC R34190 125,882 174

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that hath been done these fourteen years in the Lords Work as tending to separation But what will he say for his associats who have not onely taken the patrociny of men suspected for Malignancy but of these that were condemned and excommunicated for being murderers of the People of God yea and what if they have recommended them to Publick trust and employment To that which he alleageth in the second place I answer that this is the old Prelaticall song against the Non-conformists because some of their number turned Separatists therefore to say that they were all for separation though they keeped Christs middle way between extreams and did much more against Separation by Word Writ and Print then all the Prelaticall Party And I may say the like of the Protesters that they have taken more pains by word and writ to prevent and remedy the declining of some to the ways of Separation then all that are for the Publick Resolutions have done Beside he would consider what is said in the Representation which was given in before the Protestation How great a snare your former actings which were not to edification have been to some people to tempt them to the way of separation and to the shaking of the government of this Church c. He may also bethink himself what great numbers of these that were most zealous for the Publick Resolutions have either departed from their Principles to the contrary way against which they were fighting the former year or otherwise if they be still walking upon their principles it is true which the Protesters a leage that the Publick Resolutions lay a foundation for conjunction with all parties whatsoever To the third I say that he hath forgotten the rules recommended by him to the Protesters in the preceding page anent purging out scandaious insufficient and ill-assected Ministers Will he not allow the same moderation to men reputed godly when they fall into an error of judgment He recommended to the Protesters consideration 1. Tim. 5.19 Tit. 3.6 Gal. 1. Brethren if a man be over-taken in a fault ye which are spirituall restore such an one in the spirit of meeknesse considering thy self left thou also he tempted He recommended also Jude 22 23. and of some have compassion making a difference and others save with sear c. I wish these rules had been observed in the excommunication of some for rash censures bring authority in contempt I adde unto these another place 2. Thess 3.14 15. and if any man obey not our word by this Epistle note that man and have no company with him that he may be ashamed and yet count him not as an enemy but admonish him as a brother And I say no more but desire that he and his party may be as studious to observe these rules in their censures as the Protesters are desirous to make conscience of keeping these rules in their conversation As for his fourth consideration he mistakes the question there was more in the case of non-concurrence with the Forces of the Kingdom then association with Malignants for the state of the quarrell was changed from what was agreed on by State Kirk and Army before the fight at Dumbar as hath been shewed before Next the interest and ends of the War were changed when the Malignant Party became the predominant and prevalent part in Judicatories and Armies It is one thing to joyn with a few evill doers in a great Army It is another thing to joyn with the Congregation of evill-doers and where notorious evill doers bear the sway and rule in government There was a third thing that though all were clear anent the unlawfulnesse of the Invasion and did concur to oppose it yet very needlesly severall were made to scruple in their actings and their hands were weakened by the States slighting and rejecting the offer of a Treaty for peace which was made by Generall and Councell of the English Forces not long after the fight at Dumbar seeing it had been an easie matter in a few dayes to have made tryall and discovery whether there was any reality in that offer or not but not so much as an answer was returned by word or writing to that Letter notwithstanding that it was once resolved on by the most part of the Members of the Committee of Estates that were then present at Sterline Now it is evident that these things are of a different nature from the question about separation from worship because of the sins of follow-worshippers But yet further I say there are many clear differences betwixt non-concurrence with the Malignant Party in Arms according to the Publick Resolution separations from the Ordinances of God for the sins of fellow-worshippers for in acts of worship the effect is to every man according to his faith but in fighting together there is one common effect resulteth to all all must share therein according as the Lord dispenseth a victory or defeat now the Lord is with his friends and blesseth them and against his enemies and curseth them therefore Jehosaphat and Amaziah are forbidden conjunction with Israel 2 Chron. 19. and 25. And to expresse it Further I give this Instance that when men joyn in Armes they fight one for another but in participation of the Sacrament they do not Communicate one for another also there is no implicite obedience to be given in Acts of Worship as there must be in war in some cases For inferior Officers and Souldiers are sworn to obedience by their military Oath and if they should refuse untill they understood a reason for the command given them 't would be judged Mutiny and worthy of death Therefore friends and not our bloudy Enemies are to be intrusted as Commanders likewise there are not such Commands Prohibitions and Covenants in the one case as the other and we see in Scripture that Jehosaphat and Amaziah are forbidden conjunction with the Israelites in war yet incase the same Israelites had come to Jerusalem to Worship Jehosaphat and Amaziah had been obliged to joyn with them in Acts of Worship there be diverse other differences but because they are set down in other Papers for answering the same Objection I shall not repeat them here In the last place I shall add a further consideration and that is even in the case of abstaining from conjunction with these that not onely come the length of profession but seriously to essay to joyn themselves with the Church which it seems this Reviewer doth condemn as altogether unlawfull in any case whatsoever There is great difference betwixt open enmity against the Lord and his Work and bloudy persecution of his People and betwixt common scandals these two are not to be confounded together for actuall enmity suspendeth the duty of all relations so long as it is continued even between Father and son and husband and wife at least these duties which cannot be performed without reall danger for natures light teacheth that one would not
trust himself on the same bed or roum with another whom he had found diverse times endeavouring to cut his throat but common scandals do not suspend the duty of relations for a son is bound to do duty to a father under censure for grosse scandals Before Dumbar the Remonstrators did joyn in Armes with known scandalous persons yet they would have scrupled to have joyned in Councels and Armes with notourly treacherous Rebels that had been active and frequent in shedding the bloud of the Lords People unlesse they had seen evidences that they had repented of that enimity But to make good what is before said see Acts 9.26 The Disciples at Jerusalem were all afraid to joyn with Paul who had been a persecutor and believed not that he was a Disciple though he essayed to joyn himself to them and no doubt Paul being so wise a man and knowing how great offence his former carriage had given did declare to some of them the manner of his conversion when he did essay to joyn himself yet he could not obtain this without Barnabas his testimony to the Apposties anent the sincerity of his conversion It is wel said by Calvin upon the place timendum erat ne periculum sibi temerè accerserent si prabuissent se adeo faciles itaque timorem illis justa de causa conceptum nemo vitio vertere debet nam si ad reddendam fidei rationem vocati fuissent non Paulum mode sed omnes inferorum furias intripidè provocassent It is the judgment of some Divines upon Gal. 16 17 18 that Paul had then been three years preaching after his Conversion at Damascus and in Arabia before he came to Jerusalem which if so may further strengthen the Argument if there were need and however Acts 22 18. Such was the Lords gracious condescendence far different from the imperious and boisterous way of rulers upon earth that though upon right information concerning Paul all scruples might have been removed yet he gave command to Paul to depart from Jerurusalem make haste saith the Lord and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem for they will not receive thy Testimony concerning me As for Pauls answer although Interpreters differ about the meaning thereof yet it is most probable that his words are a confirmation of what the Lord had said and an humble confession that they had reason to scruple in receiving his Testimony and if Paul had been offering a reason to the Lord for his stay at Jerusalem as some think he would have added something about the reality of his Conversion as Barnabas did for him Acts 9.27 But however the Lord reneweth his Command vers 21. Depart for I wil send thee far hence to the Gentiles These considerations together with the present practice of the Protesters may suffice to Vindicate them from such calumnies PROTESTATION Reviewed AS for an Argument drawn from the disclaiming corrupt Assemblies at Glasgow or the following Assembly at Edinburgh its affirming those corrupt Assemblies were a chief cause of the evils we then groaned under How weak I say such an Argument will be for justifying their present practice is palpable to any who will either look to the matter concluded in those corrupt Meetings or the manner of their procedure or the particular reasons whereon they were condemned in all which there being nothing alike I wonder why they are alledged except perhaps they know many of their Proselytes will take upon trust whatsoever commeth from them or seemeth to borrow countenance from Glasgow PROTESTATION Defended IT is to be observed that where the Protestation upon good ground saith That the secend Assembly after this last Reformation hath clearly determined the keeping and authorizing corrupt Generall Assemblies to have been one of the chief causes of the many evils which have befallen this Church he onely saith that it affirmed that these corrupt Assemblies were a chief cause c. If any of the Protesters had spoken so barely of so solemn an Act and determination of the Generall Assembly it had been a Crime to have been noted with great Letters but he also passeth over these words keeping and authorizing these corrupt Assemblies which are the words of the Act and of no small use in this debate betwixt them and the Protesters and if the late Assembly be corrupt the forbearing to keep them and to concur for authorizing them is so far from separation that it is a duty so to do In the next place I observe that he seems to grant the nullity of the late Assemblies if they be like unto the six corrupt Assemblies either in matter manner or reasons condemning the same and if he shall be pleased diligently to peruse the Review of the late Vindication he may see their likenesse in all the three though he yeeld that one of them is enough As to that bitter scoff saying That the Protester I know many of their Proselytes will take upon trust whatsoever commeth from them or seemeth to borrow countenance from Glasgow I wish the Writer of this Paper had as great ability and dexterity to speak in things concerning Edification and the promoting of godlinesse as he hath for jeers and scoff wherein he seemeth to speak as one who had delighted to exercise himself therewith from his youth but surely he is greatly mistaken in the truth of what he saith and if he shal ask these whom he calleth Proselites I trust he shall find them in some measure able to render a reason of their doings and that they act from a Principle of knowledge and not of ignorance PROTESTATION Reviewed THey say they have a clear warrant from Scripture to plead and testifie against corruptions it is indeed but withall they should have better grounds then any we have yet heard of or can conceive before they trouble the Peace of a Kirk and so peremptorily conclude that a corruption which they cannot prove one yea what all not only reformed Churches from the light of Scripture are perswaded of but even generally all people from the light of nature and upon the Principles of self-preservation are convinced is a duty We passe for the present to give any verdict concerning some by past Acts of theirs which they mention how good they were or how true What is said being sufficient to clear that this their Protestation is also needlesse to say no worse as the following grounds given for it are frivolous which themselves seem in part to assent to while they say they do it for all or some of the reasons following and so insinuate that some of them will not hold water which in my humble opinion they might safely have affirmed of them all PROTESTATION Defended VVHen the Protesters bring Arguments from the Word of God from sworn Covenants and the Acts and Declarations of this Kirk to prove a defection in this Kirk and that in the Publick Resolutions they have departed from former Principles then this Reviewer takes himself to