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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
duty_n	holy_a	remember_v	sabbath_n	1,017	5	9.6106	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A12592	A godly treatise containing and deciding certaine questions, mooued of late in London and other places, touching the ministerie, sacraments, and Church Whereunto one proposition more is added. After the ende of this booke you shall finde a defence of such points as M. Penry hath dealt against: and a confutation of many grosse errours broched in M. Penries last treatise. Written by Robert Some Doctor of Diuinitie.	Some, Robert, 1542-1609.; Penry, John, 1559-1593. Defence of that which hath bin written in the questions of the ignorant ministerie, and the communicating with them.	1588 (1588)	STC 22909; ESTC S117654	118,250	200

A GODLY TREATISE containing and deciding certaine questions mooued of late in London and other places touching the Ministerie Sacraments and Church Whereunto one Proposition more is added After the ende of this Booke you shall finde a defence of such points as M. Penry hath dealt against And a confutation of many grosse errours broched in M. PENRIES last Treatise Written by Robert Some Doctor of Diuinitie Ephes 4. verse 15. Let vs follow the trueth in loue and in all things grow vp into him which is the head that is Christ c. Imprinted at London by G. B. Deputie to Christopher Barker Printer to the Queenes most excellent Maiestie 1588. ¶ To the Reader TWo sortes of Recusantes are in this land the one Popish the other Anabaptisticall They giue out that wee haue no ministery no Sacraments no visible Church These men labour of two diseases the one is great pride the other grosse ignorance Their pride appeares in their behauiour which is voide of humilitie their ignorance in their Arguments which hang together like a sicke mans dreame That her Maiestie may and ought to compell these Recusants to frequent our Church assemblies I make no question There is an other sorte which either deny or doubt whether vnpreaching ministers doe deliuer a Sacrament vpon better aduise some of them confesse that ignorant ministers doe administer a Sacrament but they adde this that such as receiue any Sacrament at their hands doe sinne grossely and pollute thēselues I will hope well of these men for they erre onely for want of iudgement The holy Sacrament is one thing the ministers ignorance is an other thing the Lordes Sacrament brings singuler comfort to the worthie receiuer the ministers ignorance can neither peruert the Sacrament nor pollute the receiuer The Donatistes taught otherwise in the former time and the Anabaptistes in our time but they are notably confuted by two famous men Augustine and Caluine What account I make of ignorant ministers appeareth in this treatise It pleased God to direct my heart and penne in this holy labour therefore I assure my selfe of his gracious blessing London Maij. 6. 1588. R. S. A Table of such points as are conteiin this Treatise 1 A Godly Prince may and ought to compell his subiects if any refuse to the externall Seruice of God 2 A godly Prince may not suffer any Religion but the true Religion either publiquely or priuately in his Dominions 3 Able teachers ought to be prouided so much as can be for the Churches 4 The teachers of religion must haue maintenance 5 Almightie God blesseth those kingdomes with peace which promote and embrace his Religion 6 The childe of God is not polluted though hee be present at and partaker of the publique Prayers Sacraments c. at such time as wicked men are present at and partakers of them 7 They which were baptized in the Popish Church by Popish Priestes receiued true Baptisme touching the substance of Baptisme 8 They are the Sacraments of Baptisme and the holy Supper which are deliuered in the Church of Englande by vnpreaching Ministers 9 The godly are not polluted which receiue the Sacrament at the handes of an vnpreaching Minister 10 The Church of England is the visible Church of Christ 1. A GODLY PRINCE may and ought to compell his Subiects if any refuse to the externall Seruice of God IT is the Princes duetie to prouide able men to teache the Lordes Religion in his dominions So did Iosaphat the king of Iuda 2. Chro. 17. and Artaxerxes the king of Persia Ezra 7. therefore it is the Princes duetie to prouide that his Subiects doe heare and learne the Lords religion Teachers and learners are relatiues Great outrages were committed against both the tables of the commandements as appeareth in the booke of Iudges for euery man did that whih was good in his owne eyes Iudg. 17. 19. cha The reason of these absurdities is set out liuely and often in these words There was no king in Israel Iudg. 17.18 19. Chap. by which words it is manifest that if a religious Prince had bene in place Idolatrie and wicked behauiour had bene suppressed and the Israelites pressed to serue the Lorde That Princes doe not passe their bounds in this it is cleare by that which Augustine reporteth of and commendeth in the King of Babylon Contra Cresc gram lib. 3. cap. 51. The Prince is bound to sanctifie the Sabboth so are his subiects the Lords commaundement is flat for this Remember the Sabboth day to keepe it holy Sixe dayes shalt thou labour and do all thy worke But the seuenth day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God in it thou shalt not do any worke thou nor thy sonne nor thy daughter thy man seruant nor thy mayd nor thy beast nor thy stranger that is within thy gates c. Exo. 20. If none are exempted by almightie God none can be dispensed with by man for all are charged to present themselues in the holy assemblies And least any either prince or subiect should forget this duetie the Lord himselfe is their remembrancer in these wordes Remember that thou sanctifie the Sabboth c. that is the sanctification of my Sabboth is a matter very important it concerneth my honour but thy comfort therfore remember and forget it not If any refuse they may and ought to bee compelled for the breach of the Sabboth is a hainous sinne Iere. 17. Nehem. 13. Faith commeth by hearing of the word Rom. 10. therefore refusall to heare hinders both the beginning and growth of faith The Samaritanes heard Philippe in Samaria they beleeued Actes 8. Lydia heard Paul at Philippos she beleeued Act. 16. Augustine was a Manichee nine yeeres he heard Ambrose the Bishop of Mediolanum and was conuerted August confess lib. 4. cap. 1. and lib. 5. cap. 13. and 14. If any shal aske me why all that heare beleeue not I answere Arcana Deisunt adoranda non scrutanda That is Gods secrets are not to be searched but adored and that vnlesse Gods spirit touch the heart as the worde doeth pearce the eare Gods holy Trueth is a dead letter vnto vs. Asa Iosias were famous kings of Iuda Asa commāded Iuda to seeke the Lord God of their fathers and to do according to the law and cōmandement 2. Chron. 14. Iosias compelled his subiects to serue the Lord their God 2. Chron. 34. So did Manasses after his conuersion 2. Chron. 33. If it were lawfull for these Kings of Iuda to cōmaund and compell their subiects it is not vnlawfull for ours to do the like If it be not lawfull to compell recusants why are Asa Iosias Manasses commended by the holy Ghost for this excellent course Ezra was a learned Scribe he was authorized by the King of Persia to teache them beyonde the riuer Euphrates the Lavve of God vvhich did not knowe it and to punish such as refused to learne Artaxerxes vvarrant is set dovvne in this sort And thou Ezra after

is not mans but Gods baptisme which is deliuered by them If it be Gods baptisme I am sure it is true baptisme Maister Caluin calleth them Catabaptistes which deny that wee are rightly baptized in the Popish Church Institut lib. 4. cap. 15. Sect. 16. Obiection The Popish priestes haue no lawfull calling therefore it is no true baptisme which is deliuered by them Answere The Argument followes not I confesse that the Popish priests haue no lawful calling yet they haue a calling though a faultie one They which are not lawfully called vnto the ministery and yet sit in the chaire of the ministerie are to bee accounted in an other place then they which haue no calling Caiphas was not in deede the lawfull high priest for he entred by money the priesthood in his time was rent in peeces yet because he sate in the high priests chaire he was accounted the high priest A faultie vocation may hurt him that vsurpes an office but it doth not defile those things which are done by that partie This is master Bezaes Iudgement in his 142. question If any shall gather of this that I allowe the Popish priesthood he deserues rather a Censor then Confuter for I confesse that Sacerdotium papisticum est sacrilegium that is that the Popish priesthood is Sacriledge 8. THEY ARE THE SAcraments of Baptisme and the holy Supper which are deliuered in the Church of England by vnpreaching ministers IF such as were baptized in the popish Church receiued true baptisme I trust they are rightly baptized in the Church of England which are baptized by vnpreaching ministers If such as were baptized by popish priests in the popish Church and by vnpreaching ministers in the Church of England receiued no sacrament many grosse absurdities would followe First very many are vnbaptized and if they bee vnbaptized they sinne grieuously in not presenting themselues to the holy Sacrament Secondly a great number haue sinned grossely in partaking the holy supper My reason is None vncircumcised might eate the Passeouer Ezodus 12. verse 48. therefore none vnbaptized may receiue the holy supper Thirdly many excellent men haue vsurped the preachers office My reason is It is vnlawfull for any man to bee a publique teacher in the visible Church which is not by baptisme graft into and so become a member of the visible Church Our Sauiour Christ was baptized of Iohn in Iordane before hee preached Matth. 3. and 4. Chap. The Apostle Paul was baptized of Ananias in Damascus before hee preached Act. 9. The vnpreaching Ministers doe adde the worde vnto the Element in the administration of Baptisme therefore it is the Sacramēt of Baptisme which is deliuered by them Accedit verbum ad elementum fit Sacramentum Aug. Tract 80. in Iohan. that is The worde is added to the Element and it becoms a Sacrament By worde in Baptisme is vnderstanded the word of Institution which is to Baptize in the name of the father the sonne and the holy Ghost c. Of this iudgement are Beza confess Cap. 4. Art 47. and Musculus de sig Sacram. Art 4. Obiection Christ sayde to his Apostles Goe and teach all nations baptizing c. Matth. 28. vers 19. therefore if the word preached be not added to the Element it is no Sacrament of Baptisme Answere The argument is very weake I confesse that Christ commanded his Apostles first to teach such as were of yeeres and alients from his religion and then to baptize them If the Gentiles had not bene first taught they would not haue offered thē selues nor the Apostles haue admitted them to the holy Sacrament of baptisme If any will conclude of this place in Saint Mathewe that none whatsoeuer may bee admitted to baptisme before they bee taught they shut our infants from the holy Sacrament and therefore are Catabaptists The vnpreaching ministers doe adde verbum adificans that is an edifying worde to the Elements in the administration of the holy supper therefore c. That there is verbum aedificans I proue it thus The summe of Christes sermon in the Institution administration of the holy supper by himselfe is the word of Institution in the administration of the holy Supper in the Church of England therefore vnlesse we wil denie the summe of Christs Sermon to be an edifying word which no learned mā wil deny we must confesse that we haue verbum aedificans in the administration of the holy supper with vs. If any will conclude of this that I mislike preaching before the administration of the Sacrament he doth me great wrong Obiection Vnpreching ministers are not apt to teach therefore they are no Sacraments which are deliuered by them Answere The argument followes not My reason is Many Iewish Priestes were both ignorant and dissolute in Esay and Christs time Esay 28. vers 7. Matth. 9. vers 36. But the Sacrifices offered and the Sacraments reached by them were both Sacrifices and Sacraments otherwise the Prophets which were at Ierusalem when the Iewish Church was full of corruption woulde not haue bene present at and partakers of the Sacrifices in Salomons Temple Calu. Institut lib. 4. cap. 1. sect 18 19. Obiection Ignorant ministers are not apt to teach therefore no ministers and consequently they are no Sacraments which are deliuered by them Answere The argument followes not I grant that it is of the substance of a lawful good minister of God to be apt to teach but it is not of the essence of a Minister simply for which it is sufficient to haue the Churches calling This appeareth clearely in the Magistrate The holy Ghost requireth that none shoulde bee chosen a Magistrate vnlesse he were a man of courage fearing God dealing truely and hating couetousnesse Exodus 18. verse 21. When such are aduanced as defile their handes either with filthie bribes as Felix did or with barbarous crueltie as Abimelech and Herode did shall we say that they are no Magistrates I confesse they are not singled out by the electors according to Almightie Gods direction in his holy Bible but they are Magistrates notwithstanding and we are commanded by the Lord to perfourme all duetie vnto them Saluo officio that is our duetie being reserued to the highest Magistrate which is God himselfe If any shall gather of this I haue set downe that I vndertake the defence of Ignorant ministers my answere is that my writings and sermons are not Aiax shielde to couer them but the Lords sworde to cutte them I confesse freely that I am very farre from opening either the Church doore to ignorant Ministers or the Pulpit doore to vnskilfull preachers which vnskilfull preachers giue Gods religion a greater blowe then the ignorant Ministers for in steade of deuiding the worde of trueth aright they speake at al aduentures yet very boldely and as vnskilfull Apothecaries deliuer quid pro quo chaffe for wheate and strange fancies for Gods holy trueth By such absurde fellowes many Churches and excellent men in this lande

which receiue the Sacrament at the handes of an vnpreaching Minister I. Penry Paul communicated since his conuersion with those Priests that were as vnlearned as euer any Which he would not haue done if inabilitie to teach had made them no Priestes R. Some Then in M. Penryes iudgement the holy Apostle was not polluted by communicating with vnpreaching Ministers Can any man if he haue but halfe an eye suspect that M. Penry dissenteth from me in iudgement What then may I thinke against whom he hath written Well I must be content with the measure he offereth me My comfort is that he shall gaine and I lose nothing by it Yea I assure my selfe by Gods grace that Gods Church shal gaine by this difference Hee pretendeth great desire of a learned Ministerie but his eagre defence of ignorāt Leuiticall priests bewrayeth him If I had written so much for ignorant Ministers the great bell had bene rung out before this I should haue had it on both sides of mine eares I haue dealt very earnestly and humbly by writings and speache for a learned Ministerie I haue receiued very comfortable answere of very great and honourable personages who haue alreadie thankes be to God employed some and will I doubt not employ more in the Churches seruice The Lord increase that blessing for his Christs sake The marke I feare which M. Penry leauels at is simply to condemne the outwarde calling of the Ministers in our Church and so to shake hands with the Anabaptisticall Recusants Though he hit not that white hee will hardly misse that Butte If hee bee throughly searched it is not vnlike to fall out so Some part of his writings looke shrewdly that way CHAP. 2. ALMIGHTIE GOD NEVER called any to the holy ministerie either in the olde or newe Testament but he furnished them with giftes fitte for that holy function THE Israelites liued in slauerie and drudgerie in Egypt They were as rude grosse as might be When the Lord would make his Tabernacle he furnished Bezaleel Aholiab of the tribes of Iuda Dan for that excellent worke He gaue them skill in working all kind of broiderie Exo. 31. 36. chap. When Salomons Temple should be built Almightie God furnished Hiram of Tyrus for that stately worke 1. Kin. 7. If Almightie God for the framing and building of the Tabernacle and Temple which were figures of the Church did so excellently beautifie Bezaleel Aholiab and Hiram it is great wickednesse to thinke that his Maiestie did euer send any vnfurnished to build his spirituall Tabernacle and Temple which is his spouse bodie Citie c. When the Lord commaunded Aaron Eleazar c. to be consecrated his Priests and consequently to teach to pray for the Israelites and to offer sacrifices in which three branches the Priests office consisted he furnished them with excellent furniture for that honourable seruice The words of God himselfe are cleare for this My couenant was with Leui of life and peace and I gaue him feare and he feared me and was afraide before my Name The Lawe of trueth was in his mouth and there was no iniquitie found in his lips he walked with me in peace and equitie and did turne many away from iniquitie Mal. 2. It is a positiue law of Almightie God The Priests lips shall keepe knowledge c. Mal. 2. It is a Canon of the Apostle A minister must be apt to teach 1. Tim. 3. If Almightie God had by any warrant of his commended the Israelites heretofore to the charge of ignorant Leuites or his Church since to ignorant ministers he had broken a statute lawe and Canon of his owne and had bin greatly touched in honor Those Leuiticall priests were sent of God and pastors according to his heart which were able to feede Gods people with knowledge and vnderstanding Iere. 3. Those Leuitical priests which were vnfit to teach were neuer of Gods sending though they were of the line of Aaron Almightie God disclaimes them in these wordes My people are destroyed for lacke of knowledge because thou hast refused knowledge I will also refuse thee that thou shalt be no priest to me Hose 4. Esay was a famous man for birth and eloquence Before that hee was sent to denounce and deliuer Gods iudgements and mercies to Ierusalem and Iuda c the Lorde did singularly furnish him with knowledge speach courage c. Esa 6. and 50. Chap. Ieremy was an excellent Prophet When the Lord would vse his seruice he touched his mouth furnished his heart c. Iere. 1. In like sort dealt Almightie God with Micheas he made him a complete man Mich. 3. Elizeus attended on the plough 1. Kin. 19. Amos on the herde Amos 1. and 7. Chap. The Lorde did not vse the ministerie of Elizeus and Amos vntil he had furnished them with skill wisedome courage c. Our Sauiour Christ did not send any vniuersitie men at the first to preach the Gospel least the conuersion of men should be attributed to learning and eloquence He called rude and base men from their occupatiōs to be his Apostles Before he sent them to be his trumpets to deliuer his message he cast them as it were into a newe molde he gaue them speciall furniture Iohn 20. Act. 2. If the Lorde Iesus had not dealt thus with them how could they haue acquited themselues in preaching and disputation as they did for they attended before on fishing and other trades Saint Paul setting out in orient colours the largesse and bountie of our Sauiour Christ to his Church after his Ascension hath these wordes He gaue some to bee Apostles and some Prophets and some Euangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the gathering together of the Saints for the worke of the ministerie and for the edification of the body of Christ Eph. 4. If these here mentioned had bin vnfurnished First Christs gift had beene no benefite but a burthen Secondly how shoulde the Saints haue bene gathered his body built his sheepe fed his spouse garnished Those Princes and Captaines which send vnskilfull Ambassadours vntrained souldiers on ambassade and warfare doe greatly stayne and dishonour themselues Almightie God which is the greatest Prince and most valiant Captaine did neuer fault in this If he had hee had giuen his glory and the Church a grieuous blowe I confesse God giues not to all his seruants like furniture Some haue ten some fiue some two some one talent which talēts must neither be buried in the earth nor wrapped in a napkin If they be vsed they will multiplie as the loaues in the Gospel They which cannot feede with manchet must feede with barlie bread Rammes skinnes goates haire were amongst the holy offrings as well as gold siluer brasse purple c. Exod. 25. If none are called by almightie God to the holy ministerie but such as he hath furnished with giftes in some measure it is the duety of the ciuill and ecclesiasticall magistrates to prouide that

you see by the way which may not be forgotten that an argument may bee drawen from the Leuiticall priesthood to the ministerie of the newe testament which priesthood and ministerie are not twinnes are vnmatcheable and cannot stand together I confesse my selfe greatly bound vnto you you deale very liberally with me for you reach me arguments as weapons to smite your selfe withall M. Penry a little after in steede of answering my reason asketh a question after his vsuall manner Did saith he none of the vncircumcised Leuites teach Iacob the lawe or offer incense c. I answere First that no such thing appeareth in the text Secondly that it is against the practise of the Leuiticall priefts in the olde Testament Did euer any student deale so childishly as M. Penry doth is not he a very fit man to censure famous men Churches Caluine Martyr Beza Augustine c. are no body with him I did neuer see him that I knowe of but ex vnguibus leonem I see by his answeres what a deepe clarke he is I. Penry Thus many things you see might be obiected against your reasons and I take the obiections to be of some waight It had bene well you had considered of them before you had published your booke And the Baptisme by vnpreaching ministers must haue better proofes then any you haue brought as yet or els I feare me our posterities will not be satisfied therewith R. Some Your wayghtie obiections are inuincible in your eye Suum cuique pulchrum But they haue neither Suczum nor Sanguinem they haue no pith in them they are lighter then any feather and bewray your ignorance You wish I had considered before hand of your obiections Satis pro imperio You are by your leaue a litle too lordly had I nothing to thinke of but of your absurde fancies you imagine very basely of me My arguments for baptisme by vnpreaching ministers are such as you are vnable to stirre for proofe of this I referre the reader to your vnscholerlike answeres Your feare that the posteritie will not rest in my reasons is a vaine feare c. R. Some The vnpreaching ministers doe adde the worde vnto the Element in the administration of Baptisme therefore it is the Sacrament of Baptisme which is deliuered by them Accedit verbum ad Elementum fit Sacramentum August Tract 80. in Iohan. that is The worde is added to the Element and it becomes a Sacrament By worde in Baptisme is vnderstanded the worde of Institution which is to baptize in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost c. Of this iudgement are Beza confess Cap. 4. Art 47. and Musculus de sig Sacram. Art 4. I. Penry Your next reason page 23. is slender Readers pronounce the wordes of Institution with the deliuerie of the Element therefore say you they deliuer a Sacrament You haue once already alledged this to prooue popish baptisme page 20. I haue answered it page 29. 30. 31. And the place of Matth. 28.19 brought in by you page 23. prooueth your consequent to bee false For it sheweth that hee who is to baptize must bee also able to teache which abilitie is wanting in our Readers Goe sayth our Sauiour and teache all nations baptizing c. Therefore if hee that deliuereth the Element be not able to teache we cannot be assured that it is a Sacrament Because the commaundement is not generally to all that coulde pronounce the wordes of Institution being thereunto permitted by the corruption of the time but particularly limitted vnto them that can teache vnlesse you will say that the Lorde biddeth them goe teache who cannot teache which were not once to bee conceiued of his Maiestie R. Some Whatsoeuer passeth from me is slender in your opinion All that you deliuer is ex tripode an oracle at the least You answered before wisely like your selfe So you doe in this place semper idem you are no changeling You deny my consequent and doe adde for your reason an obiection set downe by me a litle after My answere to that obiection is extant and very direct I rest in it I did neuer say or thinke that Almightie God did either command or allow any to be a priest in the old or a minister in the new Testament which had not gifts in some measure It pleaseth you to write in your treatise that vnfitnes to teach made not a nullitie of the Leuiticall priests office If you meane that it made not a nullitie before God you conceiue very basely of Almightie God for you make him to allowe ignorant men to be his priests in the olde Testament which absurde course would haue brought great dishonour to his Maiestie and great hurt to the Church of the Israelites I doe nowe but touch this grosse and blasphemous paradoxe of yours and with the dog of Egypt doe as it were sippe and away but I will examine it more surely hereafter that the reader may see clearely as in a Christall glasse what base ware you commend vnto vs for excellent diuinitie I. Penry The corruption in the Church of Englande that the deliuerie of the Element shoulde be seuered from the preaching of the worde is a breach of Gods ordinance you cannot deny Matth. 28.19 Actes 20.7 and therefore vngodly and intollerable Whether it make the action frustrate or no that is not the question R. Some You meane as I take it by the worde added to the Element the worde preached but you doe not say flatly here though you haue a little before that the want of a Sermon maketh the action frustrate that is the sacrament to be no sacrament I confesse that Paul preached at Troas in the administration of the holy Supper Act. 20.7 and that the Apostles did teach the Gentiles before they baptized them Mat. 28.19 But no learned man will conclude of this that a Sermon is simplie necessarie to the Essence of a Sacrament If you will know what I thinke of sound preaching before the administration of the holy sacramēt my answer is that I do greatly both like and commend it Yea I doe wish with all my heart that all the Churches in Englande had able teachers to performe that dutie This minde was I euer of since I knewe what Gods religion and good diuinitie meant Of this minde are all godly and learned men in the Church of England An obiection of the fantasticall sort Christ sayde to his Apostles Goe and teach all nations baptizing c. Matt. 28.19 Therefore if the worde preached bee not added to the Element it is no sacrament of Baptisme Answere The Argument is verie weake I confesse that Christ cōmanded his Apostles first to teach such as were of yeres and alients from his religion and then to baptize them If the Gentiles had not bene first taught they woulde not haue offered themselues nor the Apostles admitted them to the holy sacrament of Baptisme If any will conclude of this place in saint

be content and put it vp It is such ware as you haue He that wāteth wood must burne turfe Your third reason is No learned man vnlesse he fauoureth charming or Popery wil say that the Lords prayer pronounced by an ignorant man in a strange tongue or prophaned by a witche is an edifying word therefore the word barely read to no other purpose then to edifie by reading is not holsome doctrine My answere is I denie your Argument It is as weake as a staffe of reede This last reason is in deede the same with the former I might tell you if I listed that your cause is poore and naked when one reason must be twise periured c. verbum sapienti You know the rest It came out of your wardroabe Did any student euer broche such stuffe as this You neede not studie for these arguments You may deliuer them ex tempore and powre them out by the dosens Many Carre-men in London can make better arguments then these I may say to you as Archidamus said to his sonne which was more aduenturous then became him Either adde more strength or be lesse confident You haue heard M. Penryes inuincible reasons Consider now these wordes of his No learned man saith hee will denie the Lordes prayer rightly saide to be an edifying worde I thanke you for this and doe conclude thus against you Therefore the Scripture barely read and to no other purpose then to edifie by reading is holsome doctrine for the Lords prayer is a part of the holy Scripture Thus at vnwares he hath ouerthrowen his former fancie I see now of what force the trueth is It cannot be hidden long It will breake out at the last as the Sunne thorow a blacke cloude It hath pleased M. Penry to deliuer an other strange point of diuinitie in these wordes viz. The word of God vttered is not an edifying word vnlesse it be vttered according to the ordinance both in regard of the persons that vtter the same the ende wherefore it is vttered Is not this M Penry to make the person to giue credit to the holy word of God which positiō is very grosse and blasphemous It is a certaine truth in diuinitie Scriptura est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is the Scripture is of credit in it selfe it needeth not to borowe credite of any man whatsoeuer The reason is the Scripture is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is inspired not of man but of God 2. Tim. 3.16 2. pet 1.21 For the cleare proofe of this point viz. that the reading of the holy Scriptures doeth edifie I haue set downe sounde reasons in the former part of this Treatise Thither I referre the godly Reader M. Penry besides my Antecedent denied my consequent viz. that it is not therefore a Sacrament because vnpreaching Ministers do adde an edifying worde vnto the Element His reason such as it is is contained in his owne words which follow I. Penry Concerning your consequent doe you thinke that euery one that can adde an edifying word vnto the Element may minister a Sacrament it is not so for Paul requireth the wordes of euery Christian women and all to be edifying wordes Ephes 4.29 euen in common talke Shall therefore the Element administred by euery Christian be a Sacrament God forbid And yet euery Christian can adde the summe of Christs Sermon vnto the Element in the administration of the Supper which if it were sufficient as by your reason it is then women children c. Idiots that could not reade might deliuer a Sacrament R. Some You want matter to vvorke on That is the cause vvhy you shoote so much at rouers in your Treatise If the common speach of euery Christiā must bring edification and grace that is godly profite to the hearers Ephe. 4 What shal we thinke of you vvhose writings haue neither grace nor salt that is are neither profitable nor sauory as the Apostle requireth Colos 4. You would beare the vvorld in hand that in my iudgement euery one vvhich can adde an edifying vvord to the Elemēt may deliuer a Sacrament and so consequently vvomen children idiots I am very farre I thanke God from this fancie If you had any sparke of good nature or common sense in you you would not father that on me cōtinually whereof not so much as the least print appeareth in my writings I perceiue the blacke More cannot change his skinne nor the Leopard his spots Your absurde collections are euidences of your spirit They shall neuer trouble mee I will not doe you that pleasure Fructus laedentis in dolore laesi Tertul. de pat that is the pleasure which an enemie taketh is in the griefe of him that is hurt R. Some If any vvill conclude of this that I mislike preaching before the administration of the Sacrament he doeth me great wrong M. Penry saith nothing to this An obiection of the fantasticall sort Vnpreaching Ministers are not apt to teach therefore they are no Sacraments which are deliuered by them R. Some The Argument folowes not My reason is Many Iewish priestes were both ignorant and dissolute in Esay and Christs time Esay 28.7 Matt. 9.36 But the sacrifices offred the Sacraments reached by them vvere both Sacrifices and Sacraments Othervvise the Prophetes vvhich vvere at Ierusalem vvhen the Ievvish Church vvas full of corruption vvould not haue bene present at and partakers of the Sacrifices in Salomons Temple Calu. Instit lib. 4. cap. 1. sect 18 19. An obiection of the fantasticall sort Ignorant Ministers are not apt to teach therefore no Ministers and consequently they are no Sacraments which are deliuered by them R. Some The Argument folovves not I graunt that it is of the substance of a lavvful and good Minister of God to be apt to teach but it is not of the essence of a Minister simply for which it is sufficient to haue the Churches calling This appeareth clearely in the Magistrate The holy Ghost requireth that none shoulde be chosen a Magistrate vnlesse hee were a man of courage fearing God dealing truely and hating couetousnes Exod. 18.21 When such are aduanced as defile their handes either with filthie bribes as Felix did or with barbarous crueltie as Abimelech and Herode did shall we say that they are no Magistrates I confesse they are not singled out by the electors according to Almightie Gods direction in his holy Bible but they are Magistrates notwithstanding and we are commanded by the Lorde to performe all duetie vnto them saluo officio that is our duetie being reserued to the highest Magistrate which is God himselfe I. Penry The reason concluding vnpreaching ministers to bee none because they are not apt to teach you haue twise repeated within one twelue liues and made two seuerall obiections thereof That was an ouersight the sufficiencie of the argument I haue shewed to be such as Caiphas ministery and Herods magistracie brought in by you will neuer answere the same Both of them with the