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A87828 Seven questions about the controversie betweene the Church of England, and the Separatists and Anabaptists, breifely [sic] discussed. 1. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true church? 2. Whether the Church of England be a right nationall church? 3. Whether are the ministers in the Church of England sent of God, and so are true ministers or not? 4. Whether is the baptisme of infants a true and lawfull baptisme or no? 5. Whether it be lawfull to be rebaptized or not? 6. Whether it is lawfull to separate from all the publike ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English church, because there are some defects in discipline, and in other things amongst us? 7. Whether is it necessarie to demolish our churches (steeple-houses as the Separatists call them,) and to build them in other places, because they were built by idolators for idolatrous worship, were abused with images, and dedicated to saints? By Immanuel Knutton, preacher of Gods word at Beeston in Nottingham shire [sic]. Knutton, Immanuel, d. 1655. 1645 (1645) Wing K744; Thomason E25_20; ESTC R4217 31,540 40

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Acts 2.45 Acts. 4 34 35 36 37. this course continued about 200. yeares during which time no marvell though they required not tithes that which was given them being a farre greater proportion such as oppose the morality of tithes now would not bee willing to deale so with us Ministers of the Gospel QVEST. IIII. Whether is the Baptisme of Infants a true and lawfull Baptisme or not Answer I Affirme it is a true right lawfull and fit Baptisme and ought to be used in a Christian Church professing Gods truth Reas 1 Because excepting the difference of the visible ceremony there is the same analogie of reason of Baptisme as of circumcision the same internall spirituall thing signified viz. remission of sins mortification of the flesh Deut. 10.16 Jer. 4.4.6 Act. 2.38 Act. 22.16 Rom. 6.4 both of them are Symballs of our Adoption into Gods family and so our imitation into the Divine Covenant Gen. 17.7.10 1 Cor. 12 13. Gal. 3.26 27. besides Baptisme succeedes Circumcision Col. 2.11.12 or else the conditon of Christian infants under the Gospel were worse then the condition of Jewish Infants under the Law in regard of their age if Baptisme might not bee conferred upon them now as Circumcision upon the Jewish children if Baptisme belong not to Infants then the grace and favour of God by Christs comming is more obscure and straight and lesse testified then it was to the Jewes which to affirme is an horrible indignity offered to Christ Object But there was an expresse commandement for circumcising of Infants Gen. 17. but no such for Baptizing of Infants now Answ 1 There is a generall command Mat. 28.19 20. all that beleeve of any condition whatsoever should be Baptized under which Infants borne of Christian parents are comprehended for in Lawes and Precepts that be generall an enumeration of singulars and perticulars is not required because lawes doe command concerning the whole Kind Secondly the Baptisme of Christian Infants hath descended and continued from the Apostles dayes to us Origen who lived in the yeare 213. said that the Church received the tradition from the Apostles to give Baptisme to Infants Augustine who lived in the yeare 420. said that Baptisme of Infants the Church univerfall held it not instituted by Councells but alwaies retained it and most rightly beleeved it to be delivered by Apostolike Authority Now such examples are aequivalent to expresse commands Thirdly The New Testament doth not literally command remember to keepe holy the Sabbath not to say grace before and after meales not to pray with our families morning and evening not women to receive the Lords Supper many other such like things I might instance yet we hold this to be morall duties and ought of necssiety to be performed and may be proved sufficiently by consequence out of the New Testament Reas 2 Because Christian Infants are in the Covenant of grace as well as the children of Israelites Gen. 17.7 Act. 2.39 for this blessed Covenant is exceedingly extended and enlarged by Christ good reason then the seale of this Covenant should not be straightned nor made narrower then Circumcision was now Christian Infants being within the Covenant of Grace Baptisme the Seale of it is their right for as much as they are Christians belonging to the Church of God 1 Cor. 7.14 here he saith your children are holy if but one of the persons married be a beleever some by holy understand legetimate as if he had said your children are not bastards but lawfully begotten and borne But the Apostle speakes not of civill legitimation for the children of Infidells may be and are legitimate others construe the words thus that your children are holy viz. by education in Christianity others interpret them thus your Children are holy viz. by the secret operation and illumination of the spirit which begets in them new inclinations towards God as in John Baptist and the Prophet Jeremy Others say thus your children are holy viz. They are Christians belonging to the Covenant and to the Church this I chuse holy here is not understood civill but legally the Law called things uncleane prophane as vessells and living creatures and men without the Church and so the Law called things dedicated to God holy therefore as the children of the Jewes in the old Testament were not uncleane but holy that is they were not Gentiles but Jewes in Covenant with God from the wombe by the vigour and vertue of that promise Gen. 17.7 though by nature they were children of wrath so here Christians with their children who are adopted into the place of the Jewes now in the new Testament the Apostle calls holy that is they are not Heathens but Christians though by reason of originall sin they are borne children of wrath so according to faederall grace wee are borne Christians though according to nationall generation wee are borne sinners by vertue of which faederall sanctity Christian Infants have as cleare a right to Baptisme as Jewish Infants had to Circumcision such then who oppose faederall sanctity and teach that the custom or Baptizing Infants hath continued in the Church not from example or command in Scripture but from the degrees of the Church take part with the Papists who stifly seeke to maintaine theirs against us Reas 3 Because Infants are capeable of the thing signified therefore they may be Baptized they may have grace secretly bestowed as Jeremy and John Baptist many such belong to heaven Mat. 19.14 as if he had said of such little ones and of others affected like them doth the Kingdome of God consist Marke 10.14 Christ blessed them then we may bestow the Sacrament and seale of blessing on them Object If wee could certainely know which Infants had grace wrought in them and did belong to Heaven then we might baptize them but this we know not therefore it s the best not to baptize them til they come to riper yeares to make a profession and a confession of the Christian faith Answer First know that wee cannot infallibly discerne which man hath true grace and is elected this God only knowes we may and ought to judge very charitably upon an exact profession so upon a bare profession Phillip Baptized Simon Magus Act. 8.13 We must never Baptize any if we stay for infallible knowledge of any particular mans Election and particular Sanctification Secondly the faith of Parents may warrant their infants Baptisme yea though they have a bare historicall faith not a justifying faith if they can credere ad baptismum though not ad salutem this faith makes their children fit for Baptisme there were many in the Apostles times who were Baptized having only an historicall faith as Magus and others Object But the new Testament runnes much upon these speeches beleeve and bee baptized repent and be baptized teach and baptize now Infants are not capeable of the exercise of any of these graces nor capeable of teaching and what good can the Parents faith doe to
a tenth part of all why is this compared with Leviticall tithes which were paied yearely if this were not also usuall and continuall the Apostle would not use this manner of speech of one only action unlesse it shewed the common use and practise how tithes were then paied to the Priest as by common use and practise they were afterwards paied to the Levites Besides I thinke with judicious Calvin that Abraham paied tithes not of the spoyles but of his owne goods because it 's said Gen. 14.22.23 That Abraham had lift up his hand to God that he would not take so much as a threed or shooe latchet of that which was taken which he yeelded to the King of Sodome c. It 's more then probable that he paied no tithes of the spoyles seeing he would not account any part thereof his owne The next testimony before the law is Gen. 28.20.21 c. From hence it appeares that it was the generall opinion of the godly before the law was given that tithes ought to be given to God For otherwise Jacob did offend unlesse hee knew that this thing pleased God as being appointed by him Object But Jacob vowed a vow to give the tenth now no morrall thing may bee vowed because we are bound without a vow to performe such things Answer Yet its lawfull to vow morall duties which God commands us to binde our selves to more carefull obedience to excite our dulnesse to prevent omission the holy practise of the godly proves it 2 Chron. 15.12 13 14 Psal 119.106 Psal 50.14 Psal 56.12 and though ceremoniall things might be vowed under the law yet no otherwise but as they drew to some morall duty Besides the other parts of Jacobs vow was not ceremoniall but morall Gen. 28.20 21 22. That God should be his God this was vowed by him on like condition with tithes and for ought I know Iacob might as well vow tithes to God for ever as that God should be his God Iacob in this vow I thinke vowed not for himselfe alone but for his seed that should succeed because the vision which Jacob saw concerned all his posterity so did his vow God promised many blessings to him and his seed he vows holy service and obedience to God for him and his posterity those that would ascend into Heaven by Iacobs Ladder which is Christ Iohn 1.51 must be tied to Iacobs vow for Iacobs vow answering the vision whilest any part of the vision is to be performed which will be till Christs second comming so long shall tithes be Gods inheritance Because as I said his vow concerned his seed as much if not more then himselfe And those are his seed who are more of his faith then his flesh for all the families of the earth which here are blessed in Iacobs seed were not all of Iacobs flesh but even Iaphets seed comming to the tents of Sem the Gentiles called Therefore all subject by Iacobs vow to tithing Rom. 9 6.7.8 Object But we read not of the constant paying of tithes nor of any law for tithing till the time of Moses Numb 18. Answer Neither do we read of the observation of the Sabbath from the Creation till Exod. 16. Yet doubtlesse the people of God observed it but as concerning tithes we have here two examples Abraham and Iacob Reas 4 Because Tithes were due and were paied to Melchizedeke by Abraham and so ought to be paied to Christ or else Christ should faile in some thing to be as Melchizedeke was which may not be granted seeing he is after his order as the Priests of the law after Aarons order and so were in every thing as Aaron Now tithes being due to Christ must be paied to his servants the Ministers of the Gospel Heb. 7.1 to 11. From this place consider these things 1. The scope of this place is to set forth the greatnesse and the honorable condition of Melchizedek and consequently of Jesus Christ 2. Melchisedecks receiving of tithes the Apostle makes a speciall argument of his greatnesse viz. his receiving tithes of Abraham whose Offspring the Tribe of Levi tooke tithes 3. Melchizedek is as great as ever he was and so in all things as he was in the time of Abraham for he is the Priest of God for ever that never dies and so his Priesthood and the rights of it never cease 4. how can his admirable greatnesse in his Antitipe Christ be said still to be the same if Christ takes no tithes neither hath right to take them seeing the Apostle urgeth this as a maine argument of his greatnesse his scope is to prove Melchizedek more excellent then Aaron or Abraham himselfe or then any of the Jewish Nation and consequently Christ more excellent that the Hebrewes might not be hindred by an over weening opinion touching the Aaronicall Priesthood so long setled amongst them from comming unto Christ The super excellency of Melchizedek is proved by this that he took tithes of the Patriarke Abraham blessed him the title Patriarke being added for Abrahams greater honour to magnifie Melchizedek the more Next the super excellency of Melchizedek is in this amplified by comparing this tithing with that under the law used amongst Abrahams children for if some of them had a greater honour done to them in this that they tooke tithes of their brethren Melchizedek was far more honoured in taking tithes of Abraham and if they were honoured to blesse others their brethren being hereby proved greater then Melchizedek in blessing Abraham was much more honored proved greater then he and by consequence then Levi and the high Priest springing of him for so much as Levi himselfe being then in Abrahams loynes paid tithes unto him and was blessed of him from all this it followes plainely that tithes are due to the Ministers of the Gospel in regard they are Christs Ambassadours to reconcile people to God and to blesse them with conversion by preaching the word because tithes are Christs and Melchizedeks as they were a meanes of blessing for in this respect also Abraham is noted to have paid tithes to Melchizedek when hee met him and blessed him Object But we reade not that Christ or his Apostles received tithes or demanded them Answer Neither received they ought else of some Churches but their owne hands ministred to their necessities that they might not bee scandalous to weake brethren nor chargeable to afflicted Churches must Ministers of all ages doe the like Secondly the argument followes not from no practise to inferre no right for the Apostles travelled from place to place to preach the Gospel that then this could not be well done but the right was not infrienged hereby no more then the right of Circumcising by the intermission thereof forty yeares in the Wildernesse Thirdly wee reade soone after Christs ascention the Apostles tooke the price of whole fields and possessions of such as joyned themselves to them for their owne maintenance and of their poore brethren
lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world Verse 4 Then said Paul John verily baptized with the baptisme of repentance saying unto the people that they should beleeve on him which should come after him that is on Christ Jesus Paraph. Then said Paul Iohn verily as the outward Minister of Baptisme baptized you with water to the remission of sinnes together with his baptisme teaching the people that they should beleeve in that Jesus Christ which should come after him so as his baptisme was true and perfect yet such as was not accompanied attended with these miraculous gifts which now since the full glorification of Christ are bestowed upon men Verse 5 When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Iesus Paraph. Whiles therefore Iohn taught them thus and made this holy comentary upon his said baptisme they that heard it in receiving his baptisme were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Verse 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them the holy Ghost came on them and they spake with tongues and prophesied Paraph. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them as having before beene fully and duely baptized the Holy Ghost came downe upon them in miraculous gifts and they spake with tongues and prophesied So that here is no ground for rebaptization in this place these twelve doubtlesse had received the Holy Ghost though not in that miraculous and extraordinary manner as they did after for Paul in his question saith they beleeved now to beleeve is a fruit of the Spirit Therefore the Separatists doe very ill oposing our Baptizing of Infants for in Scripture we finde no examples wherein Infants of Christian Parents were denyed baptisme but examples we find wherein they had it conferred upon them 1 Cor. 10.2 as I proved before and Lydia with all her houshould was baptized likewise wee finde no negative precept inhibiting paedobaptisme neither can it bee proved truely that Christs command Teach and Baptize c. doth exclude infants from baptisme now if their bee neither example nor precept against paedobaptisme then such as oppose it doe ill for they follow those pestilent hereticks called Annabaptists in Germany who sprung up there when the light of the Gospel first began to shine not very long since about Luthers time this their opinion being but new and upstart there is good reason they should disclaime it and be humbled for it QVEST. VI. Whether is it lawfull to separate from all the publike Ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English Church because there are some defects in Discipline and in other things amongst us Ans I Conceive it is absolutely unlawfull to relinquish Gods holy Ordinances and the Assemblies of godly Christians in this Church of England because of our mixt congregations and because of some defects in our Discipline Reas 1 Because Jesus Christ leaves us not for our defects and weakenesses but continues with us and I hope will doe for ever It appeares Christ dwells amongst us because hee hath setled his sacred word amongst us sent us many godly and learned teachers and where these are teaching the truth there is Christ Mat. 28.20 Also he hath planted his Sacraments in our Church he hath converted many soules in our land to himself by the faithfull dispensation of his Ordinances but where all this is there Christ is resident Exod. 20.24 such a Church is the spouse of Christ and whilst she holds the foundation of Religion retaining the substantiall grounds of it agreable to the analogie of faith she is spoused to Christ but if shee reject the foundation of religion she is an harlot as the Church of Rome is Revelat. 2. there Christ walkes amongst the seven golden candlestickes viz. Those seven Churches of Asia yet some of them had great defects Now till Christ leaves us it is unlawfull for them to leave us and account our Church an harlot such as do thus do through the sides of our Church wound Christ strike at him and dishonour him Luke 10.16 Reas 2 Because in separating from our Assemblies and Ordinances you prevent the exercise of many an holy duty which you might ought to have performed amongst us Heb. 10. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love good workes but some might aske how must we performe this duty he answers verse 25. not forsaking the Assembling of our selves together c. here the Apostles impugneth the supercidiousnesse of the selfe conceited Jewes who out of contempt of the Gentiles deserted the Christian Assemblies as if he had said notwithdrawing and utterly separating our selves from the assemblies of Gods people upon conceit of the peculiar rights prerogatives which God hath given the Jewes above the Gentiles and standing upon the high tearmes of difference as the manner of some is c. Reas 3 Because its the high way to the sinne against the Ghost as is very cleare Heb. 10.25.26 for such as despise and desert our Christian Assemblies and Gods holy ordinances amongst us for some defects and imperfections which doe not alienate Christ his presence love from us are in the ready way to fall to blaspheme the truth and to sinne unpardonable Mr. Paget of Amsterdam in his preface to his booke called An arrow against the Separation of the Brownists complaines of them thus It is apparent that three or foure hundred of the Brownists have brought forth more Apostate Anabaptists and Arrians sometimes in one yeare then 10000 members of the reformed Dutch Church in this City have done in ten yeares or more though tempted and compassed about with seducers as much as any other Now the Arrian heresie is fearefull and odious in the yeare 324 sprang up Arrins a Presbyter in Alexandria who denyed that the Sonne of God was begotten of the substance of the Father but said that he was a creature and that there was a time wherein the Sonne was not The Anabaptists taught that infants should not bee baptized untill they came to perfect age and can give a confession of their owne faith Next that Christ tooke not flesh and blood of the Virgin but brought it from heaven Next that God not onely revealeth his will by the written word but also by visions and dreames Next that that Church is not a true Church wherein there is any Spot or wrinckle Next that the Office of Magistrates under the New Testament is not a calling approved of God Thomas Muntzerus one of the first Fathers of this Sect made a great insurrection though the Anabaptists teach that warres are unlawfull for Christians but was overcome and beheaded in the yeare 1533. Iohannes Leidensis troubled the City of Munster but was taken and condemned to death he called himselfe King of new Ierusalem David Georgius an Anabaptist in Holland said that he was Christ the Messias and Saviour of the world Thus wee see when men disdaine the Assemblies of Saints for some defects God leaves them to