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A89189 A sober ansvvere to an angry pamphlet, or, Animadversions, by way of reply, to Robert Barclays late book (entituled, Truth cleared of calumnies) in answere to A dialogue between a Quaker and a stable Christian by VVilliam Mitchell. Mitchell, William, 17th cent. 1671 (1671) Wing M2294; ESTC R43708 69,116 149

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to the contrary and whether he seeth it not fit to have his people while in this world exercised with relicts of sin to be as pricks and thorns in their sides and to keep them humble lest they should be exalted above measure And though the Saints do fear and dread to adventure upon sin yet through the strength of remaining corruption and violence of temptation they may to their hearts sorrow and grief be drawn to it which will be evident by reading over the seventh chapter to the Romans He asketh page 46. Whether such as have lived in the sense of Gods favour would have pleaded for continuance in sin and doth not continuance in sin take away and ecclipse the sense of Gods favour An. There are conscience wasting sins and falling or continuing in them will greatly ecclipse the sense of divine favour but there are sins of daily incursion which people may be guilty of and yet enjoy the favour of GOD. The godly dare not plead for allowing themselves in the lest sin approving of any sin will marr our peace and let in a sensible damp upon the soul The persons mentioned by me in the Dialogue as having such notable enioymēts of cōmunion with GOD were far from Quakerisme they would have look'd upon your opinions as monstrous and to be abominated with the greatest detestation VIII HEAD Proving the Quakers to be guilty of Equivocating He saith page 47. That it is a false challenge and a calumny to charge them as denying Baptism and the Lords Supper for they do owne these things in the substance and reality and in the true acceptation Answer They are utterly against Baptism with water and the Lords Supper as instituted by Christ in giving and receiving Bread and Wine Now in this sense Baptisme and the Lords Supper are commonly understood and do not Quakers dissemble and equivocate when they speak one thing and meane another When they speak plaine words that other men use saying they are for Baptisme and the Lords Supper but it is with a reserved sense and not in that sense wherein the words are usualy taken what is this but to speak lies in hypocrisy As the Apostle charges upon the Seducers and false teachers in his time 1. Tim. 4.2 It is a slander to say that we place the shadow for the substance the huske for the kernel Do we not make a difference between the outward signs and the things signified Pressing people no to rest satisfied with the one without the other and to seek not onely the bread of the Lord but that bread which is the Lord. We know and believe that outward priviledges will not serve the turne there must be reality and truth of grace in the heart otherwise GOD will punish the circumcised with the uncircumcised Ierem. 9.25 IX HEAD Wherein the Quakers Objections against our singing of Psalms are answered Page 48. He confesses that singing of Psalms was used by the Saints that it is a part of GODS worship when performed by his spirit and still may warrantably be performed and it is not unusual among Quakers yea Davids words may also be used as they sute the condition of the party Answ It is good that he grants and yet it is no more then he should the lawfulness of singing Davids Psalms yet truly I suspect his words have not so honest a meaning as they have a look for if Quakers be for singing Psalms How cometh it to pass that the exercise of this duty is not keept up among them at their meetings Though they have been meeting in this place for about eight or nine years yet none for ought I can understand have been witnessess to their practise in this thing But happily the singing that the Gentle-man pleads for is of the same nature with that of some of his friends who leading the horse of I. Nayler in his enterance to Bristol and singing with one bare before him holy holy the holy one of Israel which they applyed to the said Nayler and he for his part professed that he might not refuse any thing that is moved of the Lord and that he thought the Father did command them to do it A woman Quaker said that she witnessed the holy of holies was risen which moved her so to do See Naylers Tryal pag. 4.5 However my arguments for singing of Psalms remaine untouched yet he moveth two objections against our way of singing Object 1. Though singing of Psams in the true sense of them be allowable yet as used by us is abominable because the persons using it are a mixed multitude Answer He hath not proved it unlawful to joyne in singing with a mixed multitude hath GOD any where forbidden their singing We find in Scripture that all the creatures are called upon to sing praises to GOD Psalm 148.11.12.13 Kings of the earth and all people both young men and maidens old men and children let them praise the Lord. Psalm 96.1 O sing unto the Lord a new song sing unto the Lord all the earth As for that Scripture 1. Cor. 14.15 it doth not onely speak of singing with the understanding but also praying with the understanding And if hereby he would inferre that the mixed multitude should forbear singing he may as well urge them to forbear praying yea according to his way of reasoning I know no spiritual duty that they should be employed in because they are dead in their sins and it is the living that serve God spiritually and not the dead 2. Object All lying is abomination but many times it falls out that by singing of Psalms the people come to lie in the presence of God Answ This objection saith nothing when we sing Psalms that sute our condition then we are not guilty of lying and the truth is there is such plenty and variety of spiritual matter in Davids Psalms matter of such general and comprehensive concernment that they readily offer matter to us to present our own case to GOD. But suppose that the Psalme do not sute with our condition yet we do not lie in singing it why should the singing of these words my heart is not haughty and I water my couch with teares be accounted a lie more then the reading of them May we not sing these words as expressing the condition of former Saints And withal secretly wishing that the frame of our hearts were like unto theirs is this to lie in the presence of GOD X. HEAD Concerning Baptism SECT I. There is no Substantial difference between IOHNS Baptism and CHRISTS Page 49. He acknowledges that Iohns Baptism was with water and that his Baptism and Christs Baptism agreed in the Authour but he saith as to the matter they are not one for Iohn himself distinguisheth them Mark 1.8 Answer In this place Iohn maketh no difference between the matter of his Baptism and Christs Baptism he onely sheweth a difference between his office and work and the office and work of Christ all that Iohn could